JV Puleo Posted January 12, 2022 Author Share Posted January 12, 2022 Ha! You're right. Actually, I'm thinking of creating a manual for it because whoever gets it next will be really flumoxed by all the parts that aren't like any other Mitchell. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted January 12, 2022 Author Share Posted January 12, 2022 The next step was to mill away about 1/2 the thickness around the bushing. Then I calculated how long it needed to be, shortened it and drilled and tapped for a 1/2-13 bolt. The bushning end also got drilled and taped for a set scres. I cut the head off the bolt, assembled the piece and tried it in the lathe. I'm sure this was made for some sort of special fixture that fit the grinding machine — which is why it needed a special driver dog. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1912Staver Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 I don't expect there are more than a handful of surviving Mitchell's of your model anyway. So it's unlikely anyone is going to compare it too closely to another one. But yes, documentation of what you did during this restoration can only help a future owner. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted January 13, 2022 Author Share Posted January 13, 2022 (edited) I think there may be a dozen or about that number. At one point I had a number that were known to the Mitchell Club but I'm certain that was the minimum. Some, mine included, clearly weren't on the list. In a way, I'm surprised any at all have survived. As I've said several times, I don't think it was a particularly well-made car and it's weakest point is the engine... Edited January 13, 2022 by JV Puleo (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted January 13, 2022 Author Share Posted January 13, 2022 One of my machinist friends loaned me his Sunnen hone so today I'm teaching myself how to use it and trying to hone the ID of a roller bearing to enlarge it by .005. I'm not sure I'll use it when it's done but with all of these new problems there is a learning curve. As it is, it turns out I couldn't use the 3-jaw chuck as I'd planned and the mall drill press turns too fast. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Bourque Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 Hi Joe Sunnen hones use 2 stones and 2 guide shoes. Guide shoe would be in holes marked A and on the other side of the hone, combined with the stones would give 4 points of contact to the bearing being honed. Your picture shows only the stones installed in the hone. Jim 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted January 14, 2022 Author Share Posted January 14, 2022 Thanks...I wondered what those holes were for. I borrowed this from a friend and have never seen one before. jp 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted January 14, 2022 Author Share Posted January 14, 2022 My error about the guides notwithstanding, it worked quite well. I probably ruined the stones for any future job but I put that down to the learning curve. 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted January 18, 2022 Author Share Posted January 18, 2022 For two days now I've been struggling with making the sleeves that will press onto the spindles and into the hubs...not helped by the fact that I've mis-measured a few things and I'm waiting on both materials and some tools I've ordered trying to work on what I have the materials for. The plan, at this point, is to make the sleeves in the lathe with grinding and honing allowance. The ID's will be honed and the ODs ground to finish size. They have to be honed before they are ground so the OD will be concentric with the ID. Since the hones haven't arrived, I started on the pieces that will hold the sleeves on the grinding mandrel. In this case, I started with a piece of 2-3/4" aluminum bar, drilled and reamed 1-1/2" This is supposed to be 4 pieces. I tried using the cut off tool to separate them but the wall thickness is simply too much, In the end, I cut them apart with the saw — which does a sloppy job but gets done. They were then faced off and I put a 60-degree taper on one side using the grinding mandrel to hold them, making certain that the taper will be concentric with the mandrel. When that was done I put both pieces on the mandrel and took .015 off the OD. In order to work properly the OD has to be slightly less than the finished OD of the piece. I have 4 pair of sleeves to make for the rear axle and I need 2 cones for each pair so this is going to be a protracted job. And this is how they are supposed to work. The aluminum "cones" hold the piece concentric with the mandrel. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted January 19, 2022 Author Share Posted January 19, 2022 Not much went on today. I'm making another pair of these holding tools for grinding the hub sleeves. This set will be for the outer bearing race on the rear hub. Turned down to about .020 under the actual OD of the sleeve so the grinder will pass over the tools. I finished one and started the other but by then my back hurt from standing at the lathe all day. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted January 21, 2022 Author Share Posted January 21, 2022 I finished one set of grinding tools and made a third. I still have more to make but I need to go back and check all my measurements. I puzzled over this project — and bought so many bearings that now I'm not sure what I intended to use. The good part is that if I need something I probably already have it. To break things up, I decided to start one of the sleeves. In this case, the ID of the tubing is within the honing tolerance so I just have to turn the OD down. I'll probably stop about .015 larger than the finished size to allow for grinding. In this case, the finish isn't very important. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Macartney Posted January 22, 2022 Share Posted January 22, 2022 12 hours ago, JV Puleo said: . . . . and bought so many bearings that now I'm not sure what I intended to use. Don't tell me Joe you are loosing your bearings! 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted January 22, 2022 Author Share Posted January 22, 2022 More like "forgetting my bearings"....I always think "I'll remember that" and then don't. Last night I made a chart. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted January 22, 2022 Author Share Posted January 22, 2022 Reducing the OD of the piece of tubing. It's 3" now and I need 2.785 I did this with very small cuts, both to minimize the pressure on the piece held this way and to get the smoothest finish possible. In retrospect, I should have used a big center in the tail stock to steady it. With that done, I turned it around, indicated it and turned off the piece at the end. The ID of the bearing is 2.70 so I've allowed .025 to be ground. It wasn't in absolutely perfect alignment (which I expected) so I left .002 extra on this end. I will hone the ID and then attempt to grind the OD. This is enough material to make both of the sleeves I need but I have another piece if it doesn't work as planned. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted January 24, 2022 Author Share Posted January 24, 2022 Nothing much to report today. I'm making 3 more pair of the aluminum discs to position the sleeves on the grinding mandrel. But, the hones I ordered came in as well as the piece of DOM tubing for the smallest of the rear axle sleeves so progress is being made. With luck we may see this going together by the end of the week. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted January 25, 2022 Author Share Posted January 25, 2022 More of the same today... The 3 additional holding tools reamed and faced off... And then turned to size... I still have to put the tapers on the end and that may take most of tomorrow. I went back and re-read my posts on this job and it looks as if I will have spent a month — and probably $500 — just on remaking hub bearings. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted January 28, 2022 Author Share Posted January 28, 2022 (edited) I finally finished the aluminum pieces to hold the sleeves when grinding. Then went on to the hone. The Sunnen directions say that, when used in a drill press, the hone should have an additional universal joint to ensure it "floats." The Lisle directions don't mention that but they obviously don't presume that the hone would be used for anything besides an engine block. I bought an "off the shelf" universal joint and made an adapter to fit the hone. Needless to say, I had to try it even though I still don't have all the sleeves roughed out. I do have what I need for the rear axle spindles so I set it up in the drill press... To hold the sleeve I used my 3-jaw chuck but I now see I forgot to take a picture of the setup. I like using a fixture that allows me to take the part out, try it in place, and put it back. Since the hone is supposed to float a little, alignment isn't extremely critical. I'm sure there is a learning curve here so I went slowly, trying it about ever 3 or 4 adjustments. It was clearly working because I was gradually getting it to go on. Either the hole is slightly tapered or the spindle isn't exactly round. I suspect the latter. As you can see, I got it half-way on — and it was so close a fit that it stuck. It took me 20 minutes to figure out how to get it off without damaging it but after that I was very careful about how I tried it. Finally, it slid on... I want a very close slip fit and will use Locktite when I do the final assembly. I had thought of pressing them on. However, it will have to come apart several times in the course of making the parts so using a technique that allows flexibility is much better. Also, before it goes together I have to get the entire rear end sandblasted but I'd prefer not to do that until all — or most — of the machine work is done. The Locktite slip fit data sheet recommends a clearance no larger than .007 and I don't expect to have any more than .002 so it should be just fine. The hones finish was perfect... If I can replicate this on the bigger sleeves that press into the hubs I'll be a happy camper. Edited January 29, 2022 by JV Puleo (see edit history) 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luv2Wrench Posted January 29, 2022 Share Posted January 29, 2022 I'll be crossing a similar bridge in the next 6 months so that you for saving me the trouble of figuring this out. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted January 29, 2022 Author Share Posted January 29, 2022 (edited) good...by the time you get there I might be good at it. I always figure that point comes right when I'm about to finish a job! I'd like to go in and keep working on this but we are having a blizzard and it just isn't worth the attendant risks to drive in. So, I'm at home all day, something that very rarely happens. I'm working on the math to make my lathe cut metric threads. It involves making a couple of gears, which isn't a problem, but I'm not sure how to calculate which settings on the gearbox will correspond to metric pitch. Chances are, I can't get all of them but I'd like to know how close I can come. Edited January 30, 2022 by JV Puleo (see edit history) 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted January 30, 2022 Author Share Posted January 30, 2022 (edited) After digging myself out this morning I came in to see if I could accomplish anything...I put the big chuck on the lathe and set it up to cut the sleeve I'd honed in half. Fortunately, it isn't thick so I was able to use the cut off tool. Then I faced off the side in the chuck. It's critical to get this surface perpendicular with the hole so that it centers on the grinding fixture... More tomorrow although I'll have to dig a path to the shop door before I can start. Edited January 30, 2022 by JV Puleo (see edit history) 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chistech Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 I spent 7 hrs yesterday between my snowblower and my B7610 Kubota cleaning my 300+ feet of driveway and parking area. The news said 18” in New Bedford but here in dartmouth we alway get more and it looks more like 20-22”. Of course it was still snowing when I cleared it the first time so I went all over it again today, after I adjusted the auger belt in the snowblower, another 3.5 hours to get it all done. Pulled my wife’s CRV and my Accord out of the garage and tomorrow I’ll get back at the car work on the 30’ chevy upholstery. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted January 31, 2022 Author Share Posted January 31, 2022 Because my house was built in the early 18th century it's close to the road and the road is quite a bit wider now than it probably was in 1703...something of a headache when people are walking by in the summer. But, I'm able to pull my truck in off the road only a few feet if snow threatens so shoveling it out isn't too difficult. I should get a snow blower but I'd have to leave it outside (having no garage) and I'm sure it wouldn't start when I needed it! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 Joe......I recommend Florida for December to March.........😎 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chistech Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 Most snowblowers have a 115v starter motor on them now and you just plug them into the female end of an extension cord. Pump the primer a few times and push the button. No need to pull a cord or any strenuous work to start. Both myself and my neighbor have tecumseh motors on our snowblowers and they both have the AC starter motor. Both run perfectly. At least you wouldn’t have to kill your self trying to pull it over. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted January 31, 2022 Author Share Posted January 31, 2022 11 hours ago, edinmass said: Joe......I recommend Florida for December to March.........😎 I get itchy when I'm away from my tools and I don't "relax" well. Actually, in a normal year I''d be in the UK from about now to the first week of March. In something like 20 years I've only seen one snow storm in the midlands and that was pretty mild (although not by their standard, since they don't have the snow removal equipment we take for granted). 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted January 31, 2022 Author Share Posted January 31, 2022 (edited) More work on the rear hub bearing sleeves today. I started by cutting off two pieces of this thin-wall DOM tubing. By pure coincidence, the ID of this tubing is just right so I'm off the hook for honing it. I knew it was close but it turns out that the tiny burr on the inside edge was all that was keeping it from slipping on. The smaller sleeves are purposely too long. I will have to partially assemble the hub with the bearings to get the finished length. Then I put all 4 sleeves back in the lathe to trim the ends flat and eliminate any burrs on the inside. This is critical because it is that inside edge that centers the pieces on the grinding mandrel. These 4 pieces are now ready to grind the OD. I now have to rough out the sleeves for the hub but before doing that I'm going to finish the holding fixture I designed to hone them. For that I need 4 pieces of 3/4" square bar. Drilled and reamed 5/16" I finished two of them a little after 5 so I will get back to this tomorrow. Edited January 31, 2022 by JV Puleo (see edit history) 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted February 1, 2022 Author Share Posted February 1, 2022 (edited) I received a real present today in that my friend Jeruald — the gentleman I rebuilt the Cadillac water pumps for — plowed out the alley that accesses my shop. One of the things I need to do is take the rear axle to be sandblasted and I was afraid I wouldn't be able to do that until the snow had melted. Since we had quite a bit, that may have been in March... Edited February 1, 2022 by JV Puleo (see edit history) 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted February 1, 2022 Author Share Posted February 1, 2022 After finishing the drill and reaming, I trimmed each of the four pieces to exactly the same length. Then set them in the mill to cut a "shelf" for the spacer rings to sit on...I miscalculated this a bit and cut them a little too deep. Rather than make them over, I'll flip them over and cut the other side. It won't have any effect on the tools usefulness, if in fact it works at all. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted February 2, 2022 Author Share Posted February 2, 2022 (edited) The tools aren't completely done...I decided to make a few changes in the holding fixture for the hub sleeves so while I wait for the materials I started roughing out the big sleeves for the rear hubs. I had to put the big chuck on and center this 5" piece of DOM tubing. It was faced off and bored to 4.310 — exactly .020 under the finished size. This went so well that I immediately put the second piece in and bored it...saving the facing step until I was finished. And then set up the piece for the two outer sleeves. This piece of tubing is long enough to make both of them. In both cases the hole in the center is much larger than the hole in the chuck so they have to be positioned with about 3/4" clearance behind them, allowing me to stop the lathe before I run the boring bar into the chuck. Edited February 3, 2022 by JV Puleo (see edit history) 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted February 3, 2022 Author Share Posted February 3, 2022 (edited) It was "more of the same" today. I finished boring the piece in the lathe... Then went on the the big sleeve in the front hubs. The difficulty here is that I needed to buy tubing that was big enough to make the OD and had a thick enough wall to make the ID. It's all "Inch" tubing but the bearings are mostly metric. In this case you can see how thick the wall is when I started... And when I finished. Most of these will also need the OD turned down as well. The sleeves themselves are never as much as 1/4" thick but in most cases I had to use 1/2" wall tubing. Edited February 3, 2022 by JV Puleo (see edit history) 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted February 4, 2022 Author Share Posted February 4, 2022 I finished the rough boring today with this peice...the spacer for the front bearings on the front hubs. In this case, I only had to remove about .060 from the ID so it's good I finally figured out how to get a relatively smooth cut with this boring bar yesterday... Then I went back to the small chuck to face off the other end of each sleeve... Finishing up with the biggest...which also have to have their OD reduced from 5" to 4.775. You can see how much material is removed... Last up, I put the second big sleeve on the lathe but It's past 5PM and I'm not pushing it. I can finish this tomorrow. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted February 5, 2022 Author Share Posted February 5, 2022 I finished the OD on the second big sleeve today, then flipped the piece around to trim off the excess on the end. So, here are the two big sleeves ready to be honed... 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted February 6, 2022 Author Share Posted February 6, 2022 More today... I finished roughing out the sleeve for the smaller of the rear hub bearings... This one is plenty long enough to make both sleeves so I just trimmed the excess at the end off. Then the larger of the two front sleeves. In this case I don't have any extra length if I make two so I turned the end down to about .001 over the finished size...better a little too much than too little. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted February 7, 2022 Author Share Posted February 7, 2022 (edited) I finished the last of the rough machining of the hub sleeves. This will hold the front bearing in the front hub and, in this case, I only had to take ..032 of the OD. Then, because the drill press was still set up for honing the smaller diameter sleeves I decided to do this one first as it's the only one left that will fit in the 3-jaw chuck. This went fairly slowly and I began to wonder if the .020 I left for honing tolerance was a bit too much. But, I'm not confident I could have taken it down to .010 and the lathe-turned finish on this DOM tubing, even at its best, is not really good. In any case, it's too late now to change anything. Also, I am sure there is a learning curve here. Chances are, I'll finally figure out exactly what I should have done when the job is nearly completed. The fit is getting really close... My problem now is that the hone seemed to be cutting a very slight taper. In looking at the stones, it was obvious they were badly worn. I hadn't noticed how worn they were from the previous job so I resolved to get some new ones rather than take a chance on ruining this part...only to find, to my surprise, that the hone came with two sets of stones. So, I changed them and went back to it. As you can see, the inside finish is very good... I'm still going to order more stones. They aren't terribly expensive and I have a lot more honing to do. This one is still a little off although it's probably usable as is...I'll keep honing and if one of the sleeves is .001 over I'll just use some Locktite on the bearing race. None of this will make any difference to how they work...it's just that "precision" gets to be an obsession, sometimes out of proportion to what is needed. Edited February 7, 2022 by JV Puleo (see edit history) 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted February 8, 2022 Author Share Posted February 8, 2022 I took the honing to the point where the bearing races seem to fit properly. I'm still not entirely pleased with them though and I'm pretty sure I did something wrong as the hole seems to have a slight taper. I'm not going to press it now...I can go forward as it is and if I have to touch up the ID later, after I've mastered the honing process, that will be ok. Because this is two sleeves. I had to cut them apart. The piece is too fragile to clamp in the saw since all it would need to be is a few thousandths out of round to be ruined so I cut it off in the lathe. This was an ordeal...but it did work. They look really good but I'm still concerned about the ID. A tiny bit too big can be dealt with but if they are too small the race won't press in. These sleeves will be, in effect, one piece with the hub. There will be no good way to get them out if they aren't right so I have to be extremely careful here. I did take a few minutes and try one of the sleeves on the grinding mandrel... It looks as if this part of the job is fine...although I still have to teach myself how to use the grinder. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted February 9, 2022 Author Share Posted February 9, 2022 The biggest problem with honing the bearing sleeves is that the hones are designed to be used on cylinders that are much longer than the body of the tool. They aren't all that good for anything that is shorter than the tool because, unless the hone passes completely through, it will create a ridge on the stone... The fixture I designed didn't take that into consideration — the result of never having done it before — so I looked around for a better way to hold the sleeves and came up with two pieces of heavy wall aluminum tube. This is material I bought for one of my experimental water pumps and then changed my mind about using it. It's been on the shelf for years. I started by squaring the ends. They will get 3 1/2-20 bolts located 120 degrees apart in one end and, oddly enough, I needed to set up to drill holes like this for an entirely different reason. I want to put 3 set screws in the rear flange of the hub as a further way of securing the sleeve when I press it in. Unfortunately, there isn't enough clearance in the mill to drill the holes so I started by putting in center holes. And did exactly the same thing with the pieces of aluminum tube. Then moved everything over to the drill press. It tool some time to figure out a way of holding the tube solid since it's too big for any vise I have. Fortunately, these do not have to be extremely precise. I finished one and will do the others tomorrow. The hubs will get 3/8-24 locking set screws... 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted February 10, 2022 Author Share Posted February 10, 2022 This is how the new holding fixtures are intended to work. I wish I'd thought of this a month ago! I also drilled and threaded the holes for the set screws in the rear hubs.. Other than that, most of the day was spent putting things away and cleaning the machines. Some of the new stones are supposed to arrive tomorrow...depending on when, I may get back to the honing. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted February 11, 2022 Author Share Posted February 11, 2022 My new honing stones arrived but before I can work on that I had to make another adapter to connect the hone with the universal joing... Then I ground a boring tool to square up the bearing seats in the hubs. I put the hone together with the new stones. The instructions that came with it were, to my mind, not very good. When you add in the fact that I'm not using it the way the makers intended (for honing an engine cylinder) I have to give some thought on exactly how to adjust everything. While I'm pondering that problem, I put the big chuck on t6o work on the hubs. The original bearing seats are rounded on the bottom — matching the original bearing races. I need a square corner at the bottom of the seat in order to seat the sleeves so I'm carefully boring the curve off each one. This will require leaving a little ridge so I'll put a tiny rebate on each sleeve before I press them in. I got two of these done...I'll finish the rest tomorrow and go back to honing the sleeves. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted February 13, 2022 Author Share Posted February 13, 2022 (edited) Saturday I finished putting a square edge at the base of each of the bearing seats...being careful in every case to not touch the actual ID of the hub. They aren't perfect but without the factory jigs and fixtures it is probably impossible to improve them. And today I started on the honing using the aluminum tube fixture I made... The fixture worked fine. I'm certain I left too much metal on the ID because it took me all day to do the first one. That said, I was being very careful and only expanding the hone .001 at a time. I think this one is right. though I admit to fitting the bearing race by "feel" rather than measurement. It will just about start into the sleeve with hand pressure which means it should press in just fine...I hope! Edited February 14, 2022 by JV Puleo (see edit history) 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Harper Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 2 hours ago, JV Puleo said: though I admit to fitting the bearing race by "feel" rather than measurement. It will just about start into the sleeve with hand pressure which means it should press in just fine...I hope! Nothing wrong with fitting by feel. You know what you want the end result to be. Your doing the job of a skilled fitter from back in the day. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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