JV Puleo

My 1910 Mitchell "parts car" project

Recommended Posts

Real water pump grease apparently isn't as easy to find as it once was. Somewhere I have a can of Oilzum that I bought in the Summer of 1971. I suspect it's oxidized by now so I was going to buy some Castrol when I'm in the UK next week. I mentioned this to a friend who was fixing something in my shop today and he said "don't bother" - he has several cans of it.  I did plan I'd rather use the real stuff but it's good to know that is the right decision.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think you have made a fantastic job of that water pump and greaser. You make it sound so easy, which I know it's not. Bring some decent weather with you when come to England next week, we have had enough of rain and wind!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll try. So far we have had an extremely mild winter so perhaps the weather will follow me over.

I've taken Ed's suggestions very much to heart...they remind me of one of my favorite quotes from Poor Richard's Almanac, "A wise man learns from other's mistakes. A fool has to make his own." I'm trying to finish the water pump before I leave...I may even do it. The grease cup came out better than it had any right to.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Moving along with the business of putting 2 seals on each side of the pump, I reduced the longer of the two bushings by 1/4"

 

IMG_2686.thumb.JPG.7b00e19e0ade299640ee4220160467bc.JPG

 

I then made an aluminum ring 1/4" thick to act as a dummy seal when I press the bearing in so it will stop at the right spot.

 

IMG_2687.thumb.JPG.a35d9900a910540ee65965c744813899.JPG

 

That worked just fine...

 

IMG_2688.thumb.JPG.9527ff0bcb35ab27ba0da7800a5a44cf.JPG

 

I then moved on  to the front plate of the pump. This once is even more challenging because the grease has to go in through the boss on the plate as well as the split bushing which can 't come off once the timing adjuster is fitted. It is also under the cap that holds everything together and I'm loath to put a hole in that. After buying several grease fittings I came up with another idea. I made one of my threaded sleeves....1`/2-20 OD and 3/-16 ID.

 

IMG_2690.thumb.JPG.cb690752141ecb0f765ead64631005c0.JPG

 

This will screw into the boss and I will put a notch in the split bushing to accommodate it. I've seen fittings like this before but I don't think on a car...the grease gun has a threaded tip that screws into the hole. When it's charged with grease, a grub screw is put in to plug the hole. The threaded sleeve has to be short enough so that it will not touch the cap that holds the pump but long enough to have a few threads. This sleeve is just under 1/2" so the grease gun will screw in 7 or 8 threads. You'll have to take the cap off to grease the front bearing but it is easily accessible.

 

Lining up the front plate to drill the hole was something of a problem because I super-glued the brass studs in. I finally came up with something, having left last night wondering how to do it.

 

IMG_2691.thumb.JPG.6e14b49c409bc0a3f76f20380cd7cf97.JPG

 

I used a long center drill to start the hole. This drill is 1/2" in diameter so I set it so it was only about .003 from the face of the plate.

 

IMG_2692.thumb.JPG.d877a148227438debd6950a471e7635a.JPG

 

Then drilled the hole...

 

IMG_2693.thumb.JPG.bf2ef6c9a1b6d97e76359ff13d742b45.JPG

 

and tapped it...

 

IMG_2694.thumb.JPG.fa0567cdbd871f46eb45907ddc9e4ba7.JPG

 

I put the sleeve in with a drop of Locktite on the threads but forgot to take a picture...next I'll do the notch in the split bushing but it's late and my back hurts so that's for tomorrow.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello Joe!

 

Its looking great! In regards to the Super Glued studs.... Some heat from a propane torch will take care of 

the Super Glue then you can clean up the residue with Acetone. 

 

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello Joe,

What all do you intend to do while on the other side of the pond?

Al

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, JV Puleo said:

"A wise man learns from other's mistakes. A fool has to make his own."

 

I like it; I must have helped to make a lot of wise men in my lifetime! :)

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Terry Harper said:

Some heat from a propane torch will take care of 

the Super Glue

 

I have found that just using an electric heat gun works just as well to 'unstick' the superglue.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, alsfarms said:

Hello Joe,

What all do you intend to do while on the other side of the pond?

Al

 

I'm visiting friends and planning to spend a fair amount of time in the National Archives where I have a large number of figures to check for the book I am working on and that I expect to finish this year - so this is my last chance.

Edited by JV Puleo (see edit history)
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Joe, I have subscribed to get updates from the National Archives.  That must certainly be a wealth of information!  How large is the facility/museum/library?  Just wondering, how do you get time to work on your book in conjunction with the Mitchell project taking most of your waking hours.  You must never sleep!

Al

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh, I sleep, but I don't have a TV and I haven't many friends in the area. I don't have a wife or children either so I've very few distractions. I do machine work during the day and writing/editorial work at night. When not doing either I read.

I find the British National Archives quite easy to work with...it's a new facility (or at least in the last 15 years). The catalog is not difficult to use and if you have a problem so far I've found the staff very helpful. If you have a lot to do (as I do this time) you can request more the material in advance and they will have it ready when you arrive. Oddly enough, I've never been to the US Archives in Washington but I've been to Kew many times.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is the front plate with the grease fitting fitted.

 

IMG_2695.thumb.JPG.fa8a6b0f8fbf8d74928b03dca9e13c30.JPG

 

I them milled a notch in the split bushing.

 

IMG_2696.thumb.JPG.cd7ff948790406b7d0ecec1fedd7f006.JPG

 

It's 9/16" rather than 1/2" to give it a little clearance.

 

IMG_2697.thumb.JPG.43d0edf9c8f40e3e649431e7c8319e6e.JPG

 

Next I turned a notch in the bushing and drilled 4 holes at 90-degrees so the grease can reach the shaft.

 

IMG_2698.thumb.JPG.f32359c0bb60fcba8301d31a05ddcc59.JPG

 

Then removed the extra 1/4".

 

IMG_2699.thumb.JPG.92abe80d653445f3d79950554d456780.JPG

 

And pressed all the bushings in.

 

IMG_2700.thumb.JPG.ed2bb6142a8c9cb38085bd7e92d5f843.JPG

 

So here it is assembled...

 

IMG_2701.thumb.JPG.56b63cd2c8e129ed944f157edb022b93.JPG

 

IMG_2702.thumb.JPG.eec942ae9629e51de93fca6b279f6a0b.JPG

 

And, in going through my stuff I found this neat little syringe that I will make into a "water pump only" grease gun for the special threaded fitting.

 

IMG_2703.thumb.JPG.1de9e5020e31c7ee3235ae1d5ec99ab2.JPG

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looks good to me! 👍

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Ed. I am certain it is much better for you suggestions.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Joe.......enjoy your trip over the pond. Looking forward to your next project. If you need a radiator, please post a photo and measurements in the event any of us come across one........unless you plan to make one yourself.......which I am sure you can accomplish.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was planning on making a cartridge core. I even designed a little machine to swedge the tubes but I'm not adverse to buying one. I just won't (or more accurately can't) pay thousands for a radiator. Mitchell used a separate shell so I don't have the problem of making perfect brass tanks. Supposedly, the 1910 cars had brass shells and the 1911 cars had steel shells. I have my doubts it is that clear cut...most of the restorations have brass shells but that could easily be the usual business of getting as much brass on the car as the owner can justify. I prefer the steel shell because it draws out the line of the hood a little. One of the people I've been exchanging information with has offered to make me a shell.  I have a radiator, albeit in very sad condition...too far gone to be used but good for dimensions.

 

If I can I'll take a picture tomorrow and post the dimensions.

 

Thanks,'

 

jp

Edited by JV Puleo (see edit history)
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The water pump . . .  yet another JV Puleo work of art . . . fantastic job Joe.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've just a few things to tidy up before I leave. Today I made new gaskets for the inlet and output sides of the pump. These are 1/8" thick, made from a rubber material that is semi-hard. I punched the center hole and then turned the OD on the lathe using the tools I made a few days ago. I get it down to a few thousandths more than the tool and then finish it with sand paper. It's probably a bit over the top but I think messy gaskets really detract from the job.

 

IMG_2706.thumb.JPG.e71eddb90fd48cdc9af724069f75b935.JPG

 

IMG_2707.thumb.JPG.6c876ff7e676e6e676b0490828df1e26.JPG

 

Here they are in place on the output side...

 

IMG_2708.thumb.JPG.a708dd7259da12ffcee488b132d7d237.JPG

 

And with both ends assembled.

 

IMG_2709.thumb.JPG.c594eef2cf62d6fda3534023d3cff8ac.JPG

 

I'm not going to bother testing it again since I know it works. The only thing I'd be looking for are leaks and all of the places where it leaked have now been addressed. I also took some pictures of the radiator but I'll post those tonight with the dimensions – which are at home.

 

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A throughly professional job..........I’m impressed. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's the radiator. It looks better in these photos than it is. It was made by McCord - vertical tubes with thin brass fins.

 

1977940731_Rad1.thumb.JPG.5f47aee317db8f228d3e87b2ec5eab9c.JPG

 

597794051_Rad2.thumb.JPG.c493562ad96df7b76fbd089fadce16bb.JPG

 

And this drawing I made in the process of figuring out how to make a core. I have photos of the Mitchell that carried the first trans-continental military dispatch which was of the same model but must have been a prototype because the trip was made in 1909 and the car wasn't offered for sale until 1910. That car had a honeycomb radiator. The radiator is about 2" thick but there is room for a core 2-1/4" or even 2-3/8" thick. Chances are, Mitchell just bought the cheapest radiator they could find.

 

Radiator.thumb.jpg.a23a31b0f9036d8cbd024557af9ceee2.jpg

 

[CORRECTION] The radiator is 2-1/2 inches thick and there is room for 2-3/4".

Edited by JV Puleo (see edit history)
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, JV Puleo said:

I've just a few things to tidy up before I leave. Today I made new gaskets for the inlet and output sides of the pump. These are 1/8" thick, made from a rubber material that is semi-hard. I punched the center hole and then turned the OD on the lathe using the tools I made a few days ago. I get it down to a few thousandths more than the tool and then finish it with sand paper. It's probably a bit over the top but I think messy gaskets really detract from the job.

 

IMG_2706.thumb.JPG.e71eddb90fd48cdc9af724069f75b935.JPG

 

IMG_2707.thumb.JPG.6c876ff7e676e6e676b0490828df1e26.JPG

 

Here they are in place on the output side...

 

IMG_2708.thumb.JPG.a708dd7259da12ffcee488b132d7d237.JPG

 

And with both ends assembled.

 

IMG_2709.thumb.JPG.c594eef2cf62d6fda3534023d3cff8ac.JPG

 

I'm not going to bother testing it again since I know it works. The only thing I'd be looking for are leaks and all of the places where it leaked have now been addressed. I also took some pictures of the radiator but I'll post those tonight with the dimensions – which are at home.

 

That's a great looking job Joe!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Mike...I'm in the UK now and, to some extent, recovered from the jet lag. I find it hard to sleep on airplanes so the trip, from home to here takes something more than 24 hours and I'm getting old for that sort of exertion.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think I have ever managed to get to sleep on an aircraft, even on the long flights to LA, that I have visited a couple of times.  How I am at present, I don't think I could cope with all the hassle at the airports, let alone the flight. I think my flying days are over. My arms can't flap as fast as they did. Sorry, my jokes don't improve! If you manage to make it up to Norfolk it would be nice to see you, but if not, don't worry, as you know, we are a long way from Cheltenham. Enjoy your UK trip and I hope you manage to accomplish all you are hoping to do on this trip. Already I have been missing your posts on the forum.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mike......I highly recommend British Air...........first class only of course.........reclining chair into a bed with your own private cubicle. Fantastic service, great food, unlimited Johnny Walker Blue ...........linen tablecloth, it’s very civilized. The only fault I can find with it is the 8k ticket price. 😎

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now