JV Puleo

My 1910 Mitchell "parts car" project

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JV Puleo, I always admire the time, patience, and the care that is going into this restoration. Thanks, John

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On 1/2/2020 at 3:43 PM, JV Puleo said:

Jeff...if you go back to page 58 you can see what was there. The saddle was Babbitt lined and there was a spring loaded cap that pressed down on it - also Babbitt lined. Aside from the fact that I have no idea how you would renew the Babbitt in that spot, I thought it was a cheesy center bearing...certainly prone to bounce as pressure increases and decreases on the cam shaft depending on which valves it is opening. I never liked it and spent a good deal of time trying to think of a way to replace it with something more substantial. Based on the figures in Heldt, it still does not have enough cam bearing surface but this is the best I can do.

 

A spring loaded cap certainly does sound like a problem waiting to happen. That sort of solution might work fine on a piece of industrial machinery turning a couple of hundred R.P.M. but seems unsuitable for a car engine.  I am sure your version will be more satisfactory. Great work ! Definitely bringing one back from the dead.

 

Greg

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Posted (edited)

I certainly agree with that. Pressure on the cam is not uniform. It varies with which valves are opening, with the exhaust valves generating more pressure than the intake valves. I can't see how it could have avoided bouncing. But, it was purposely de-tuned to keep the RPM's down and no attempt was made to balance the reciprocating parts. The pistons and rods were outrageously heavy.

 

Unfortunately, I've no progress to report today. I spent the entire day modifying a gear for the foundry next door. The best part is that it's done and came out just about perfect and I'll trade the job for the water pump castings. Actually, I'd have fixed it just to be a good neighbor but it just so happens I gave them the water pump patterns the same day the gear broke.

Edited by JV Puleo (see edit history)
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Quite impressive work.  I can't even comprehend the knowledge, skill, effort, and attention to detail involved to repair all these issues on such ancient engines.  Very intriguing work.

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1 hour ago, hursst said:

Quite impressive work.  I can't even comprehend the knowledge, skill, effort, and attention to detail involved to repair all these issues on such ancient engines.  Very intriguing work.

^^ this... I've gotten my feet wet enough in machine work to know it is even harder than he makes it look.

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Posted (edited)

This will be the cap that goes over the cam bearing. The first step was to bore it out to .001 under the OD of the bearing. This is so it will be tight and "stick" to the bearing. That will make assembly a little easier and aid in heat dispersal.

 

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Then the outside was turned. This measurement isn't critical but I aimed for a wall thickness of 1/2". Because the ID is an unusual size I had to use the 3-jaw chuck and grip it from the inside. After the OD was turned I flipped the piece around and trimmed off the excess.

 

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Then milled 1/2 of it away. There was a certain amount of guesswork in this because I don't know if the radius of the saddle is actually 1/2. I also had to mill off one side because I've nothing like 1/2" on the inside of the bearing next to the wall of the crankcase. I spent quite a bit of time fiddling with this to fit it.

 

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After several attempts, I finally got it about as close as it is going to get.

 

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Now I'll have to fit a piece of 1" shafting in to see how close it has come...

 

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It can't be off my much and I can still remove.001 from the bore.

 

 

Edited by JV Puleo (see edit history)
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The Mitchell job is on hold for a few days while I wait for some materials to come in. In this case, I didn't order the stuff in advance, largely because I hadn't made up my mind what to order. I did knock the 1" to 3/4" bushings out of the end pieces and try a piece of 1" shafting in the bearings. As I anticipated, it's fine. A tiny bit tight but that can be addressed by honing the bushings when I put the real camshaft in.

 

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I'm taking advantage of the down time to clean up this bench-top drill press. I did someone a favor a few months ago and, when I refused payment, he graciously gave me this. It came with a tapping head that I've removed and will fit it with a chuck. I suspect it will have a lot less run out than the old one Ive been using.

 

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Everything slides on the column so this is one of the few occasions when I've taken advantage of the long bed on my lathe. This is not going to be a restoration - I just want it reasonably clean and all the adjustments working.

 

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I didn't quite finish but it's close.

 

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The two pieces on the table are a planetary gear set from a Ford transmission. One future, possible project is fitting a chain-drive starter anticipating the day when I may not be up to cranking. Planetary gears are something of a mystery to me so I wanted something to experiment with and didn't want to spend real money on it. I think these set me back $25. I don't want a ring gear on the flywheel - there is no way that can be disguised - but chain-driven starters with a one-way clutch were used c. 1914–1915 so if I incorporate one I want it to be in the style of the period. I have seen an early Peerless (1909 I think) fitted with a starter during its working lifetime. I doubt anyone would have done it for a Mitchell but as long as I keep within my "working life of the car" I'll be satisfied.

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I finished up the new drill press this morning. After I took this picture the new chuck arrived. I also have two small parts coming. I am determined that this will not turn into another project so rather than start making parts I bit the bullet and bought them. I did test it once the wiring was done and it seems to run as well as you can expect it to.

 

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When I finished that I went up to the office to check my emails and found I had once from a friend in Australia who is assembling another 1910 Model T Mitchell. He'd seen the water pump patterns in this thread and asked if I could get him a set. So, I took the impeller pattern next door anticipating that they hadn't gotten to my parts yet but, in fact, both pieces were done. So...I left the impeller and asked them to make another set.

 

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I really wish I'd thought of this to begin with. I could have saved weeks of work. Both pieces will be drilled and reamed to 1-1/4". Then, all the surfaces and the grooves that locate the center section will be done off the center holes. In that way, the two pieces have to be concentric.

 

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I got to the point of starting on the front plate but that one has to be quite precise so I thought it better to hold that for tomorrow morning. It was 4:30 by then so I probably wouldn't have finished in any case.

 

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I turned the small end of the water pump plate down to 2" and faced it off. I'm not sure why the finish is slightly off. It may have something to do with the heat treating or, more likely, my choice of lathe tool but the need to get a perfectly square intersection between the face and the projection limits what I can use. It's actually a lot flatter than it looks in this picture. In fact, you can hardly feel any roughness. In any case, about 90% of this face doesn't show.

 

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I then faced off the inside. This came out a lot better but I was able to use a lathe tool I know puts a very good finish on aluminum. This surface is more critical since it is on the inside of the pump.

 

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Then I turned the end plate for the inlet side round. The finished dimension will be reached with both plates screwed together but I need this one round in order to indicate it and set it up in the mill to bore and thread the hole for the inlet pipe.

 

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And, as is my habit, I'm including a few improvements I thought of after I'd finished the other pump. The overall thickness is the same as the previous model but in this case I'm counterboring for the brass plate that covers the seal. I thought of this because the circular section in the middle isn't perfectly round. In any case, this should look a lot better and the paper gasket will be completely invisible under the cover plate.

 

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It was more difficult to do than I'd anticipated...this is one job that came out better than it had any right to.

 

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Both plates machined to size. Now I have to put in the grooves that align the center section, the holes for the screws and the main inlet passage. That's all milling machine work so I'll attempt that tomorrow.

 

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Edited by JV Puleo (see edit history)
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I did the most difficult part today, milling the slots that the center of the pump fits into. The last time I milled them first and then turned the center to fit the slots. That is much easier than doing it the other way around but I don't want to make the center over so I gave this a try. I put one end of the previous pump in the mill and lined the 3/16 end mill up with the slot. That is one of those things that is much easier said than done when a being few thousandths off can spell disaster. Naturally, I though of a better way of doing it after I'd already started.

 

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I milled the slot and tried it...and it was almost - but not quite what I wanted. But, rather than waste a lot of time and start over I decided to try lapping the two pieces. The lack of perfect fit may have been due to the burrs left by the end mill. This cast aluminum does not machine exactly like the aluminum plate I used earlier. It was clear that the two pieces would work if I wanted to press them together so I knew they were very close.

 

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I did the first one in the mill with the table locked in both directions because if it worked I have to do the 2nd plate at exactly the same setting. It did work. I don't know if the poor fit was the result of the burrs or I was a tiny bit off though it was probably a little of both. This took time but the fit, when done, is exceptional. I then did the other plate and lapped that one.

 

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So, despite it taking 4 hours, I'm pleased with the result.

 

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I decided to drill the holes I need using the dividing head rather than the rotary table. The dividing head is more accurate and it is much easier to fit on the drill press table. Because it is so accurate, I took a chance and did the pieces one at a time.

 

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The front plate was drilled and tapped.

 

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Then the rear plate was drilled with clearance holes. I then put both pieces on the expanding arbor and tried screws in the holes. They all aligned perfectly.

 

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With that done, I took the rear plate off and used a counterbore to get a perfectly flat surface around the screw hole. Nuts will go here. I was thinking of using acorn nuts but that would require that the little rods that go between the two plates be very precise. I still haven't made up my mind on this part.

 

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With the two plates screwed together and on the arbor I turned them down to slightly larger than the flat made by the counterbore. The plates are slightly larger than the old ones. I was never happy with the way they looked as the heads of the cap screws were right on the edge and I'd prefer not to use socket head cap screws for this.

 

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The last thing I did today was set the inlet plate up in the mill to cut the water inlet channel. In it's finished form it is 1-1/2" deep. It's only 1/4" here - so I have something to start on first ting in the morning.

 

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Thus far the cast aluminum is milling much smoother than the 6061 I used previously.

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I finished milling the water passage. I got a much better finish this time but I was taking small cuts — .025 at a time. I drilled a 5/16 hole to the finished depth in the center of what would be the slot so that each time I made a full revolution of the rotary table I could bring the table up without putting any stress on the end mill. I suspect that the long end mill needed to get in 1-1/2" was deflecting slightly giving me a rough finish. It took a long time to do it this way but the result is far more satisfactory.

 

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I also turned down the plate that covered the seal on this end to fit the counterbore.

 

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It lies slightly below the surface to allow room for a paper gasket since the screws that hold it on go into the water passage.

 

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I also have to cut the flutes in the center portion a little deeper. I set this up but it was approaching 5:00 and I was tired so I won't actually mill it until tomorrow. I don't know why it was a little off — the amount is minuscule but just enough to make the cap screws that held it together bind in 2 out of the 5 holes. The original design actually called for them being deeper but that wasn't necessary the previous time. Rather than cap screws, I'm going to use so 3/16 brass rod threaded on both ends so the threads won't show.

 

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And, I set the inlet piece up in the dividing head to drill the 4 holes for the screws that attach the plate.

 

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Edited by JV Puleo (see edit history)
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I like your creative use of tooling...to get the job done!  Can't help but notice the glass helper in the picture.  I keep one of those "tools" close at hand also!

Al

Edited by alsfarms
clarity (see edit history)
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Yes... I was always near sighted and have had to wear glasses for distance since I was about 1. As I've gotten older and my eyes change I've lost that. Now I need help to see things close up and the last time I renewed my driver's license (about 8 weeks ago) I passed the eye test without the glasses.

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Joe,  You are just like wine and cheese....getting better with age!

🙂

Al

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I'm not so sure about that Alan... the one thing that age does have going for it is that I'm free to work on things I like even if my stamina is declining.

I milled the flutes a little deeper in the center section of the pump this morning then tried them with the cap screws. This worked really well.

 

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Then I drilled and tapped the holes for the cover plate.

 

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This worked perfectly as well...

 

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And then, to confirm that everything really did fit, screwed the three parts together.

 

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Then I set the inlet side plate up to drill and bore a hole for the inlet tube.

 

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I measured all this very carefully but it looked as if it was off center to the left. After mulling this over I realized that what I was seeing was the variation in the casting.

 

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I bored the hole out to 1.2" and threaded it 1-1/4-20.

 

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In all, I got quite a bit done today — or so it seems.

Edited by JV Puleo (see edit history)
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9 hours ago, JV Puleo said:

In all, I got quite a bit done today — or so it seems.

 

Compared to me, and many of the other restoration posts, you seem to get a lot done everyday! First thing, every morning, I look forward to reading your interesting and informative posts.

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I'm nearly finished with the inlet side end plate. There was just one more thing to fix. I don't know if it shows in this picture but when i reamed the center hole a portion of the surface came out rough. Unfortunately, this is right where the seal will go. It is the first time that has ever happened to me and I suspect it may have something to do with the heat treating. I've tried turning 6061 that had be heated and cooled and had much the same problem. I put it in the lathe to bore out the rough part.

 

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I took very small cuts. I'm going to make a sleeve to fit in here but anything I remove weakens the boss in the center of the pump that hods the bearing. for this reason, I made the wall thickness much heavier than I did previously. As it is, I only bored it out to 1.346 so the walls of the sleeve will be less than .050 thick.

 

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I made the sleeve out of the center test camshaft bushing.

 

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Leaving a flange on the end that will be cut off. The idea it to make a slip fit. Id thought about a press fit but with a wall thickness so small I'm concerned about either crushing the sleeve or having it contract slightly.

 

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I hit the dimension right on and inserted it with a piece of ground 1-1/4 shaft in the hole so the two pieces have to align. The "glue" is the Locktite press fit material I used on the water pump. It takes 72 hours to set up completely so I can 't finish this until Sunday afternoon.

 

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10 hours ago, JV Puleo said:

The "glue" is the Locktite press fit material

 

Joe, which is the Loctite type number for this? There seem to be a lot of different types. I was thinking of using something on the bronze bushes that fit in the alloy pistons on my project.

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I'll take a look when I get to the shop but it is "press fit." I'm not sure it is appropriate for the pistons though. I expect they will get too hot. Locktite is a great product but it can't withstand high temperatures.

 

Edit: Loctite 635

Edited by JV Puleo (see edit history)
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This will be the flange on the inlet side of the pump that the lower water fitting butts up against. It was aluminum on the previous pump but this time I'm using a brass tube . I will eventually solder this to the tube. The piece of metal is marine bronze, a piece of a drive shaft from a fishing boat. It is actually a mistake I made when I was rebuilding the milling machine but it looks as if there is just enough metal to make something of it...its been on the shelf for a good 3 or 4 years.

 

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It was threaded and I had just enough material to bore the threads out.

 

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Then tapped 1-1/4-20.

 

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I then put it on one of the fixtures I made earlier and turned the OD and knurled the larger portion.

 

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Then back in the mill to put in slots for a hook spanner.

 

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The finished piece. This took most of the day because there are so many different steps.

 

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But I wasn't done yet. I put a piece of 1-1/4 brass tube in the lathe to thread it. This is the end that will screw into the pump.

 

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I used the flange as a threading gauge...

 

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Obviously I have to shorten this but I want to set it up on the engine to get the exact measurement. This tubing was not particularly easy to thread...it isn't made from the "free machining" 360 brass that threads easily. Still, it will work just fine.

 

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I took yesterday off to do the laundry and work on my book and because I wanted to give the slip fit Locktite time to completely set. This morning I put the inlet end of the pump in the lathe to turn off the extra material.

 

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It seemed to work perfectly.

 

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Then I put the pump back in the engine to mark the length of the brass inlet tube.

 

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I cut it off...

 

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And threaded the end.

 

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I then assembled it and tried it in the engine. The angle iron sides of the engine stand are the same material I intend to use for the sub-frame so if it fits here it will fit when the engine is in the chassis.

 

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I don't think there is any question that this looks a lot better than the welded pieces. Its stronger too. Next I'm going to replace the socket head cap screws with brass rods and special nuts I've dreamed up. It certainly doesn't look like the original pump but I think it does look like "1910" – or at least a lot more so than my previous efforts.

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Joe It looks great . One suggestion... Where the pump bolts to the case , soften up the corners  to match the case. (radius the corners) ,this will make it look more period.  Great job buddy.. Mike

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I intend to but haven't gotten to it. Its one of those jobs I'm leaving for a day when I'm waiting for materials to arrive.

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I made some little brass studs to replace socket head cap screws...the first step was to cut them to length. The trick is to make them identical so I did it in the lathe with a cut off tool and the piece of rod in a collet with a stop set.

 

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Then both ends were threaded. This threading device was critical. I'd never have been able to thread them straight by hand and they are too small to single point.

 

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This is what they are supposed to do. I'll make special nuts for the end but I'm waiting on the hex stock.

 

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I then drilled and tapped the holes for the cover plate on the small end.

 

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And pressed in the bushings.

 

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With the plates screwed together, the fit is just about perfect. However, when I put the middle section in the pump it tightenes up just a little so when everything is done and bolted together I'll hone the bushings a little.

 

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Edited by JV Puleo (see edit history)
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