JV Puleo

My 1910 Mitchell "parts car" project

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I went through that sort of performance recently drilling pin holes in a new water pump shaft to match the impeller and the pulley. Both had been drilled by the factory just to get a hole so were off centre. It was a performance to hold the impeller (or pulley), insert the shaft without moving anything, start the hole with a milling bit, then drill with a drill bit. The set-up took longer than the drilling, as yours did!

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The first thing I did this morning was finish the pin by trimming it to length and putting in the holes for the split pins. I made this little fixture for that purpose some time ago. It's very simple but makes the job go quickly and easily. The holes are for the 3/8" and 7/16" pins I used on my rocker arms and allows me to drill a 1/8" hole in the center of the pin.

 

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I then replaced the hub on the crankshaft, with the pin holding it in place,  and centered it under the spindle. For this, I cut the head off a 1/2-20 bolt and put a center hole in it. I used that to align the center of the threaded hole in the hub with the center of the spindle. The bolt is long for a reason... you want the flat to be perpendicular to the hole and it is very difficult to tell if the hole is really at the top of a round piece. With this long bolt screwed in, it is easy to move it until the bolt is straight up and down. This doesn't have to be accurate to the thousandth... but the closer the better.

 

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From this point, it's just remove the hub and mill the flat. I went in about .100 - the depth isn't critical as long as the flat is larger than the face of the set screw. I used a 9/16 end mill, so that there was a small amount of clearance on both sides of the threaded hole, and "flat point" set screws rather than the more conventional "cup point" set screws which would leave a mark on the crankshaft. I am just mimicking the method used to hold an end mill in milling machine tool holders. Here is the hub assembled on the crankshaft. There are still the dog teeth to do but, as I said earlier, I won't do those until I am certain they will come out right.

 

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superb work as usual,your starting to hold us all to a higher standard, thanks for showing us,i had a machinist tell me once were only limited by are imagination,your showing us proof of that statement,can hardly wait to see the next post and the one after that,please keep up the great work it tells us all that the impossible just hasn't been thought of yet,     dave

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I'm not sure what I'll do next. I have the pistons to finish and the connecting rods to make as well as the clamps that hold the lifters down. My ultimate goal is to have all of the engine parts ready to go before I finish the crankcase so that when that is done, I can assemble it. I don't want it sitting around the shop, open to dust and dirt (although the shop is isn't all that dirty). If there a lesson to be taken from all this, it is that you can do it too. I'm a complete amateur, with no professional experience as a machinist. I've actually only been in one or two machine shops in my life and that was many years ago.  But, I also have a big job, making new windows for my house, that has to be done before the cold weather arrives so while I'm not stopping the machine work, I can't be on it every day either. I think I have worked out most of the con rod problems. I just have to make the tooling... although "just" is a bit misleading. The tooling needs to be more precise than the parts.

 

jp

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by whos standards are you an amateur,ive sent work out in the past to the [ros and found very little quality

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Thanks very much for the vote of confidence!

 

I say amateur because I've no formal training and have never made my living in the machine shop trade. I did get my first lathe when I operated a garage that specialized in old cars. (I won't say restoration shop, as that term has come to mean something else.) This was in the 70s and I was in my 20s. At the time, I used a local machine shop to make or fix the things I couldn't. The two gentlemen who owned it encouraged me to buy my own machines and learn how to do the work. I did that, though those machines are long gone. I made some parts in those days, mostly for my 1910 REO. My current big lathe and drill press were bought at a printing auction. they were largely unused for 20 years, at least 10 of which the lathe spent outdoors getting rusty. By the time I was in a position to rescue it, most would have sold it for scrap but, I had no money to buy anything better so I dismantled it and brought it back from the dead. There's a saying in the (name your industry) that people want a job fast, cheap and good... you can pick two – you can't have the third. The best reason I can do reasonably good work is that I'm not in a hurry and don't have to meet a price.

 

Here's the lathe, finally reassembled. This picture was taken the day it ran for the first time in 15 years... about 4 months after I purchased the Mitchell parts car.

 

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Edited by JV Puleo (see edit history)
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It is 15" Sidney, made in Sidney, Ohio. I'm not sure of the date but they only went into business in 1905, originally manufacturing woodworking machines. I think they started making metal working machines during WWI. I was told (but cannot confirm this) that the serial number makes the date of manufacture 1922. However, if that is the case, the design was already pretty old fashioned as it could easily be 15 or 20 years older. In some ways it is more archaic than my tie-bar Hendey, built in 1919.

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Those prices are pretty stiff by New England standards... but I suppose that big machines might not be all that common in Arizona. Of all those, I think the Pratt & Whitney if the best is it has some tooling with it. My first lathe was one of those except that one has a quick change gearbox and mine only had a set of change gears.

Edited by JV Puleo
typo (see edit history)

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8 hours ago, JV Puleo said:

Those prices are pretty stiff by New England standards... but I suppose that big machines might not be all that common in Arizona. Of all those, I think the Pratt & Whitney is the best is it has some tooling with it. My first lathe was one of those except that one has a quick change gearbox and mine only had a set of change gears.

 

We have the advantage of all those mill town machine shops that built up over the last 100 years and then closed.   There is a lot of great but very heavy equipment that is not expensive if you can fix it and use it. I have a couple of friends that each "saved" the most ridiculous bridgeports you could imagine.   You need the floor space and thick concrete.

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Hello Joe,  For some reason I have missed your progress report, on the Mitchell, on this AACA forum.  You are doing a very nice job.  You suggested to me in the past that you probably will not use your generator/timer but will do something else.  Have you determined what that will be?  I also have a soft spot for old machinery.  My last purchase was a 16" Lodge and Shipley geared head lathe from 1926.  It is up and running and I am 1/2 the way through adding a taper attachment to it for a project I have in the works. 

Regards,

Alan

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I would love to get a better Bridgeport mill. I have a 1962 series 1, but it has sway back pretty bad. The table and saddle gets really tight at the ends of the lead screws. There is a company in Phoenix that can rebuild the ways, re-scrape, and redo the table for around $6 -$7K. If I could find a nice one in good shape back east it may be cheaper even with freight than doing the rebuild. There's not a whole lot of machinery around here. Makes for slimmer pickens. The only good thing is there isn't all the humidity so they dont rust up as bad.

Anyone have a good mill for sale?;)

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I've been looking for a good vertical mill for some time – although I want one that is quite a bit more substantial than a Bridgeport. They aren't cheap here either. I have less money in the Brown & Sharp 2A shown in this thread than a worn out Bridgeport would have cost, and that includes having it delivered from Philadelphia.

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I bought an old tow motor forklift years ago for $1500. I knew a guy that needed one for his shop. He had the Bridgeport in a corner that he wasn't using. I wanted a mill so we traded. I ended up tearing down the entire head assembly and replaced all the bad and worn parts. The upper part works great. Once I get the other pats re built it will work like new again. It's still usable, I just can't use the full range of the table.

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11 hours ago, alsfarms said:

Hello Joe,  For some reason I have missed your progress report, on the Mitchell, on this AACA forum.  You are doing a very nice job.  You suggested to me in the past that you probably will not use your generator/timer but will do something else.  Have you determined what that will be?  I also have a soft spot for old machinery.  My last purchase was a 16" Lodge and Shipley geared head lathe from 1926.  It is up and running and I am 1/2 the way through adding a taper attachment to it for a project I have in the works. 

Regards,

Alan

 

I'm thinking of doing the generator separately... or maybe even an alternator. I have to find one I can disguise as being old and fit it into an aluminum box of some sort. I have the broken remnants of an early accessory generator to copy the general idea from. Then, I'm thinking I will rebuild the generator distributor unit as a distributor only. It would then be the same size as the original magneto and this would open up some space on that side of the engine and simplify installing the water pump (which I also have to make). Its really a matter of having learned so much since I did that job that I now can see how it could be done better. I don't begrudge the extra work, that is the only way I have to learn. It's a sort of self-imposed apprenticeship system.

 

L&S is a damn good machine!

Edited by JV Puleo (see edit history)

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I've had a nerve wracking week for reasons having nothing to do with this car but have gotten some shop time in. This photo of the hub from the front illustrates how arbitrarily the retaining hole was drilled and why lining it up with the key way was difficult.

 

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As mentioned earlier, the last step is the dog teeth. It occurred to me that they have to mate perfectly with the teeth on the end of the hand crank. There is no better way to achieve this than to do them at the same time with the identical set up. I found a piece of Stressproof bar and started on that part.

 

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This piece of bar is too big and too long but it will be easier to work with if it is trimmed to length after the teeth are cut. After turning the outside dimensions, I counterbored it about 3/8" deep with a boring bar.

 

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Here is the finished piece. I left the area that will get milled into teeth thicker than the original, thinking that more surface area is better.

 

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This brought up the problem of alignment. The two pieces should be perfectly in line with each other to minimize the chance of the hand crank slipping off when starting. That would be impossible with the very poorly bored bracket that holds the hand crank to the frame. When a hole is a misaligned as it was (see photo above) it cannot be drilled. Boring is the only good solution. I made a simple fixture out of angle iron and started boring out the Babbitt bushing on the mill with a boring head. This didn't prove to be very satisfactory because the Babbitt busning was so off center that I found it almost impossible to get the hole in the center of the iron casting. I then melted the Babbitt out and made an interesting discovery. While not perfectly straight, the bracket is not as out of line as I had thought. It was the Babbitt job that was really bad. I may have spoken too soon in criticizing the makers... the bushing could easily be a later, poor repair. With the Babbitt gone, the rough hole shows. I want to get this hole absolutely straight and parallel with the front cross member it bolts to. It cannot be shimmed or otherwise receive its final adjustment until after the engine is in place.

 

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The boring came out reasonably good. Tomorrow I will make a steel bushing for this, to match the bored hole and reduce the ID to 1. Then I will bush that down to 7/8" with bronze.

 

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Edited by JV Puleo
grammar & typos (see edit history)

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That was a poor photo. This one shows the bore of the hand crank bracket better. I didn't try to take out all of the casting roughness. The casting itself isn't very straight so my goal was to get to the point where I could sleeve it.

 

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The sleeve was made from a piece of 1" x 1-1/2" steel tubing. The bore of this tubing is usually slightly undersize so it was a quick job to run a 1" reamer through. It was then pressed on a 1" mandrel and turned to 1.340... the size of the bored hole. In its finished state, it will get 1" OD x .875 ID bushings.

 

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The sleeve is a press fit, but not a terribly tight one. I was worried about cracking the casting. It will be fine as long as it doesn't move and eventually I'll add a screw in oiler that will permanently secure the casting, liner and bushing. This shows the bracket from the front with the sleeve centered reasonably well. Nevertheless, it probably won't line up with the engine as well as I would like so it is quite possible that I will have to slot the mounting holes and perhaps add some shims to line it up perfectly.

 

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From the other side, it isn't quite as good but it now is mechanically straight, perpendicular and parallel to the cross member that it is bolted to.

 

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Like many brass cars, the hand crank was spring loaded with a cross pin in it's shaft that engaged a notch when it wasn't in use. This was to hold it up. Paved roads were uncommon when these cars were built and you did not want the crank hanging down as it was usually lower than the front axle and could easily hit things in the road. I am not certain I'll make use of this. I may make a different type of holder for the crank handle, but it does show the often slipshod manner in which these things could be done. At some point, I'll mill the slot through the sleeve and probably continue it on the other side.

 

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Nice way to handle the damaged casting.  Thanks for sharing another creating technique!

 

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I've been really busy trying to finish making and installing windows in my house before winter and the cold weather hits but I thought I'd share this. After literally years of looking for a vertical mill that I thought well made and that I could afford, I managed to buy one in a Massachusetts scrapyard. It cost as much to transport it as it did to buy but it's 10 times the machine (at one third the price) of a worn out used Bridgeport. This is a Kerney & Trecker 2CH Vertical. It is easily the newest machine I own, having been built in 1960. I almost feel like a traitor to the antique machine world but these were very well thought of machines. Now I'll be able to use my horizontal Brown & Sharp as a true horizontal mill more often while the K&T should be better for boring and similar operations. This machine weighs 4,600 lbs and I had to remove the table in order to get it through the door. I now have only one more "machine goal" - a medium sized shaper. I've actually been promised one for free but we've got to figure out how to extract it from the garage it's stored in.

 

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A good friend once commented that I was a hobbiest with a very unusual idea of what constituted a "hobby" machine shop.

Edited by JV Puleo (see edit history)
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That's a great find Joe.  The K&T should be able to handle anything you'll ever ask of her.     I can see your friend's point, but Wikipedia defines Hobby as " a regular activity that is done for enjoyment, typically during one's leisure time."   Since there is little enjoyment working with "hobby class" tools, it would see to me that you're doing it the correct way.  Unfortunately, doing things the correct way is becoming a bit unusual so I guess your friend is correct in describing your behavior. :)
 

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THERES A REASON IT WAYS 4000 LBS ITS MASSIVE COMPARED TO A BRIDGEPORT,I THINK A BRIDGEPORT WOULD WAY IN AT ABOUT HALF OR LESS,THATS A MASSIVE MACHINE IT WILL PROBABLY DO ANYTHING ASKED OF IT AND NEVER STALL,IVE SEEN THE WORK YOU PERFORM AND I THINK THIS WILL BE A GREAT ADDITION TO YOUR SHOP     DAVE

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On Sunday, October 08, 2017 at 10:41 PM, JV Puleo said:

 Kerney & Trecker 2CH Vertical.

Do you have the doumentation/manuals? If not, i may have and will donate if I do.

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I have printouts I downloaded from a machinery site. They are ok but I'd certainly appreciate the originals as they would be clearer. I generally use the parts book as a guide in disassembly and reassembly and it's sometimes difficult to see what is going on from the printout. It's like using weak photocopies.... it works but not always well.

 

jp

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Hey Joe,  It looks like you save the unit from being sent to China.  Very robust machine!  Good for you.

Al

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