JV Puleo

My 1910 Mitchell "parts car" project

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I went home last night pondering how to anchor the gear box...came up with an idea and discovered it wouldn't work. But, I was able to come up with a Rube Goldberg contraption that works. I'd make something but as this is the only time I'll do this it doesn't seem worth the effort.

 

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I set the cutter as low as I dared and took the first cut. Thankfully, it seemed to work ok.

 

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I then stopped to make 2 aluminum discs, 2" in diameter with a 3/4" hole in the center. One will take the place of the water pump when I face off the split bushing and the other will be my gauge for the turning tool.

 

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The idea is to turn to the desired diameter and then use it to set the tool.

 

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I'm going down from a nominal 2" to 1-3/4" with .025 cuts.

 

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After each cut you have to disassemble everything, turn the gauge down, reset the cutting tool and put everything back together. This took most of the day.

 

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But I got down to the last cut which, in this case will probably be about .010. I decided it was best to leave that for tomorrow when I'll be a bit more energetic. when this is done, it will get a sleeve over the end to bring the diameter back to 2" but it will now be round. It looks crooked but will be mechanically straight.

 

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Actually, I don't think it will even be noticeable on the finished engine...

the remnants of the original Babbitt fell out too but this saddle will get faced off almost 1/4" to make room for the thrust face of the bearing that is going in this hole.

Edited by JV Puleo (see edit history)
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10 hours ago, JV Puleo said:

I was able to come up with a Rube Goldberg contraption that works

 

Well, it worked. Necessity is the mother of invention! A great post and excellent pictures.

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I made the final cut this morning. It came out a little too small...but I never thought I could hit the desired size right on. There are too many parts to the cutting tool and it's too imprecise to be accurate to the thousandth. In all, I'm satisfied with this.

 

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Next I faced off the saddle both to get the new cap and exactly in line with the old casting and to reduce the length to make room for the thrust bearing.

 

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I also turned down the diameter of the thrust flange to match the eengine.

 

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Then I faced off the split bushing. It was too wide and, to work properly has to be flush with the cap on both ends.

 

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Last, I reduced the thickness of the thrust flange. The gear that drives the water pump and magneto will go here and it has to align with the timing gear. The inside of the thick piece of aluminum is flush with the front of the holder for the timing gear bearing so I carefully reduced the thickness of the flange until they aligned.

 

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And this is what I ended up with. I now have to fit the timing adjustment gizmo I made...

 

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I will have to make a ring to slip over the end of the saddle to return the OD to 2" so that I can attach the cover for the gears.

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I finished up last night and tried to go home, only to get stuck in a traffic jam for an hour - with the serpentine belt on my truck screaming...so I went back to the shop. It was dark and cold outside but that is where most of the tools are. I'd thought something was coming apart and had to look...it turns out it was just the belt but I decided to work a while to wait for the accident to be cleared up. I cleaned up the mill and the lathe and filed of the ridge the facing tool had made in the big saddle. I'll repeat what christech had to say about good files... I rarely use files and only recently someone gave me a pair of excellent Nicholson's...what an eye-opener. This went very well.

 

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I decided to recut the face on the rear of the small saddle to get the bearing and the saddle itself perfectly flush. This is how I make a facing tool. It's just a piece of 1/4" tool bit ground to an angle. I got this little fixture with a pile of miscellaneous stuff I bought from a defunct machine shop, not knowing if I'd have a use for it. It puts a slight rake on one side of the tool.

 

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It works pretty well but I wouldn't be able to do it without the surface grinder.

 

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Then I milled down the notches on the small cap being careful not to hit the faced part. When I got within about .005 I stopped and finished it with my excellent files.

 

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I had to stop in the middle of this to change the belt on the truck but when that was done I machined a groove in the bearing. This will be for oil. I'll put a little Gits oiler in the cap so I can give it a drop of oil occasionally and it will be transferred to the rotating shaft.

 

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It also got 4 holes at 90-degree angles...

 

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Here it is in place...

 

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So, aside from  putting the oiler in and finishing the cap with slightly counterbored holes and rounding the edges, this part is done.

 

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While you can see the different parts, if you run your finger over the pieces you can't feel the seams at all. Since you can easily "feel" .003 I think this is about as good as it gets.

Edited by JV Puleo (see edit history)
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15 hours ago, JV Puleo said:

I'll repeat what christech had to say about good files... I rarely use files and only recently someone gave me a pair of excellent Nicholson's...what an eye-opener.

 

I better read that post. I have never thought about the quality of files before. I shall make a metal note about the good file makers names for future reference. Filing is just one of those jobs that I have only carried out if I really have to.

 

I am still enjoying and learning a lot from your posts, keep up the great work.

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Now it's time to fit the timing adjuster. The first step was to reduce the diameter of one of the hubs. I discovered that it didn't fit inside the heads of the screws that hold the plate on the end of the water pump.

 

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I also reduced the length by .040...

 

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And attached the water pump to get some final measurements.

 

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After going back and forth to the lathe to make some final, very small cuts...

 

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There is just a tiny bit of binding when I rotate it by hand. I'm guessing the bushings inside the water pump are not in perfect alignment with the front saddle but the difference is very small...probably in the area of .001. I may hone the water pump bushings a little to loosen them up but given that I'm using stressproof ground stock for the shafts and there are many parts here that all have to align, the fact that it is this close is practically an act of God. I think the best thing about this is that it looks as if the the timing adjuster was intended to go in this space.

 

Tomorrow I'll have to broach some keyways and cut a key seat in the water pump shaft.

Edited by JV Puleo (see edit history)
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Joe, I get amazed every day on your ability to come with different ideas to solve a problem and then be able to machine exactly what you need. 

Very nice work. George

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That really looks good Joe, congrats on a great vision with equally great execution. 

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Joe, I left you a message not sure that you got it. I’m halfway through your book!

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Overnight I mulled over how to address the tightness in the rotation of the water pump shaft. The thought occurred to me to set it up on the engine and lap it using the boring bar. I tried that and the bar wouldn't go through both bushings inside the pump which tells me they were very slightly out of line with each other. Since the pump worked, it can't be very much. I removed the center of the pump, and the seals, and set the two ends up to lap the bushings together.

 

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As I suspected, it took very little to get to a point where a piece of 3/4 shaft passed through both bushings easily.

I then attached it to the engine and lapped the water pump and the front saddle with the boring bar.

 

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With both holes lapped I installed the timing adjuster.

 

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When I tightened up the screws that hold it together, it was no longer easy to turn. I took it out and put it on a separate piece of 3/4 shafting and tightened them up. As they got tight, the shaft no longer turned easily in the hole so either the two faces are not perfectly flat or the holes around the edges are not perfectly placed. The first thing I tried was lapping the two plates to each other while they were on a piece of shafting. I didn't quite finish that but it made a definite improvement. I may still open the holes up a few thousandths as that will have no effect on how it works once the screws are tightened but I'll have to find a drill or reamer that is slightly oversize... (actually, now that I think of it I may have one).

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Edited by JV Puleo
typos (see edit history)
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Lapping the discs to each other did improve the situation but not enough so I decided to open up the holes in the front disc. The idea here is that the sides of the cap screw will not touch the inside of the hole which, given there is probably a small amount of miss-alignment, could cause some binding. I'm using a 9/32 reamer so I'm enlarging the holes by 1/32 of an inch. It will eventually get conventional hex head bolts here.

 

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That made a substantial improvement. There is still a tiny amount of friction when you turn it but it is so small an amount I suspect a little oil will solve it.

 

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With that done, I broached key ways opposite the set screws.

 

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I also lapped the surfaces a little to get them even flatter.

 

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This about finished this part of the job. There are some cosmetic things to be done to the caps but I'll leave those for a day when I'm waiting for materials. I took the pillow block off the engine and put the magneto on it's shelf to see if it aligned - which, I knew it would.

 

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Next up is the cam shaft bearing. I will probably have to order a few things in for that but this time I decided not to start buying materials ahead of time since often enough I change my mind about how to do things and they sit around waiting for a purpose. I've also decided that I really don't like the welding on the water pump  - it simply doesn't look right for the period – and have come up with an elegant solution - something I should have thought of long ago.

Edited by JV Puleo (see edit history)
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I've been working on both the cam shaft bearing and the "new and even more improved water pump"...I'm doing the pump now because I have to make patterns for the end plates and don't want to rush the guys next door. Also, I know I'll have to order some bits to continue with the cam shaft so I can work on the patterns while I wait. The first step was milling a 3" radius on this piece of oak hand rail.

 

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Then I cut some wooden squares, planed them to 5/8", put a 1" hole in the center and turned them round.

 

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I did the same thing again to get a 3" round piece and a 2-1/4" round piece and glued them all together.

 

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The pieces of 1" dowel on the right, with threaded inserts in them, will plug the center hole and give the mold maker a way to pull the pattern out of the sand. These still have to be painted and made as close to glass smooth as possible...which isn't difficult but takes time.

 

For the crankcase, I need to replace this hole. It's 7/16 x 14 in the aluminum. The threads aren't great and my proposed design for the new bearing will need a hole that will allow me to torque the bolt that goes here.

 

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I made the threaded insert first. The internal thread is 1/2-20 and the external thread is 7/8-14. Not having a mandrel that will work with the internal hole, I threaded the inside and then threaded the outside while screwed onto a piece of 1/2-20 threaded rod. This works quite well because the pressure from the threading tool wants to tighten the piece but you have to put something behind it, against the collet, that is smaller than the minor diameter of the thread.

 

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With that done, I put the crank case in the mill and located the center of the hole. I did that by putting a center hole in a 7/16 bolt and screwing it in.

 

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Then it was drilled and bored. The drill size listed on the little chart I keep on the bench is actually wrong... it calls for 13/16 which leaves the threads very shallow. I looked it up in Machinery's Handbook to get the correct size and went for maximum thread engagement.

 

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Then, while still aligned in the mill, I tapped it.

 

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Because I was going for maximum engagement it was tight turning it in. I doubt it even needs the Locktite but I don't have to worry about it coming out and it will now allow me to tighten the bolt without worrying about stripping the threads.

 

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Edited by JV Puleo (see edit history)
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I know I haven't followed everything... but I missed where you decided to do the water pump over.  What was the reason?

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The first water pump was too large and I failed to take into consideration the sub-frame that holds the engine. As it was it was impossible to attach the water lines. The second pump solved those problems but I really don't like the welding. You almost never see welding of any kind on a brass car (I've only seen it once)...and certainly not aluminum welding. Welding was known but it doesn't become a feature of car manufacture until much later. There was also some minor evidence of leaking a little where the parts were screwed together. I'm not making it all over again, just the front and back plates which will now be cast so they can't possibly leak. Really, I only need the back plate but in order to make certain the holes for the screws that hold it together line up perfectly I want to drill both plates together. I should have done this the first time around but a configuration that will work using castings only occurred to me a few days ago. Having invested so much time in this I'm determined to get it to the point where I don't have any apologies to make.

Edited by JV Puleo
typo (see edit history)
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Glad to see I’m not the only guy who uses his vertical mill and engine lathe on wood! I do the majority of my inletting in these wood bodies with the mill. It make perfect mortises and even tenons, especially when you need at tenor or mortise deeper than the table saws capacity.

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Yes... I don't do much wood on the metal machines but there are times when it's really the way to go. I've no idea how I'd have made the 3" radius if I didn't have a big face mill to use. I just don't like getting the machines covered with saw dust. When I first did it, I clogged up some of the oil holes...so now I have to be careful and cover the ones that are too close to the work.

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I moved the crankcase back to the boring stand and bolted it down with the main bearing up in order to start on the camshaft bearing. This is all a bit of an adventure because I've never used any of this stuff before aside from the gearbox so I am not rushing it. You can see the lower half of the cam bearing saddle here with the 1" keyed stock still in place. I will have to bore this to a diameter of 1.950 and the real challenge is that there is no way of measuring it since I only have half of the circle. I will have to depend on the micrometer readings which is why I've spent some time trying to perfect my measuring tool (there is still a bit more to do).

 

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I mounted one of the "bridges" but, since they are designed for a bar 1-1/4" in diameter I inserted the 1-1/4" x 3/4" bushing I made for the small magneto shaft saddle. One problem that immediately appeared is that in order to get this aligned with the cam shaft, the bridge has to be too far over to one side to make use of the slots and threaded holes that are intended to secure it. I'm going to have to make some hold downs for this.

 

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I bushed the front an back cam bearing holders down from 1" to 3/4" to center the boring bar and then ran the bar I have through the three bushings...front, middle and rear. It does appear to line up perfectly.

 

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Here it is from the other side. I will have to make a new bar, somewhat longer than this one since I will also have to pull it out the back of the engine each time I adjust the cutting bit and I want the bar to be retained in at least two if not three bearing surfaces when I do that. So far, so good but there is a lot more fussing to do before I dare bore it.

 

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17 hours ago, JV Puleo said:

The first water pump was too large and I failed to take into consideration the sub-frame that holds the engine. As it was it was impossible to attach the water lines. The second pump solved those problems but I really don't like the welding. You almost never see welding of any kind on a brass car (I've only seen it once)...and certainly not aluminum welding. Welding was known but it doesn't become a feature of car manufacture until much later. There was also some minor evidence of leaking a little where the parts were screwed together. I'm not making it all over again, just the front and back plates which will now be cast so they can't possibly leak. Really, I only need the back plate but in order to make certain the holes for the screws that hold it together line up perfectly I want to drill both plates together. I should have done this the first time around but a configuration that will work using castings only occurred to me a few days ago. Having invested so much time in this I'm determined to get it to the point where I don't have any apologies to make.

 

OK, that makes a lot of sense... keeping the internals and making the body cast.  That should look great. 

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14 hours ago, JV Puleo said:

I mounted one of the "bridges"

 

Is this one of the parts that came with the boring bar equipment? If so, at some time, when you have finished all your boring, it would be nice to see a photo of the complete boring bar kit.

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Will do. The whole kit is contained in a big blue wooden box that weighs enough so that it takes two men to lift it. There are 4 of these bridges. I'm not even certain I have all of it...only recently I was reading the instructions - which I found on the internet - and realized I may not have the facing tool for the main bearings.

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Yes. I looked for one for a long time that I could afford. This one cost me about $850...quite a lot to do one engine but a lot less than it would have cost to have someone else do it - if I even knew anyone who could do it, which I don't. The fact that I have 3 holes to bore and that I will probably have to do the main bearings at least twice if not three times in the process of fitting bronze sleeves made it imperative that I do it myself. Unfortunately, it was heavily used and shows evidence of being used pretty roughly but I was still lucky to get it. It actually showed up on the HCCA site while I was in the UK. I emailed my friend Mike West and asked him to contact the seller for me. Mike came through and even arranged to have it delivered when I got home. It turned out that the seller had worked in Woonsocket, RI at one time and lived just down the street from my shop so he knew exactly where to go. He had other interested parties but they all wanted it shipped. The box is missing the lid so he'd have had to make one and arrange truck shipment...all of which made delivering it to someone he could just drive to all the more attractive.

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We have a a complete Kwik Way bar set up........it's like new.......probably only used four or five times before we got it, and it came in a fantastic steel box. Must tip the scales at 150 pounds will all the stuff in it. The cost for a "like new" set up thirty years ago???????? Zero, we just had to do all the main bearing jobs the gentleman ever needed for the rest of his life..........that was almost thirty years ago......he's still going strong, and driving and restoring cars in his mid 70's. We probably have done five jobs for him so far........all were 9 main bearing jobs.......or some other crazy exotic thing.......so if we figure in time, it would have been cheaper to pay retail for the kit.......which today would be 2500-3000 dollars from what I have seen advertised and sell.

Edited by edinmass (see edit history)
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I actually had one of these Ammco setups years ago. It was also new...like had never been unpacked by the garage that ordered it. I bought it from the gentleman who did this kind of work for me. He had a new, and much more sophisticated machine and placed little value on it. In fact, it was walled up in a section of his barn. In order to get it out, I had to climb over a wall, drop down inside what may have been a horse stall and pass the parts out to him over the wall. I never used it...very shortly after that I closed the garage (for reasons unrelated to my business) and advertised it in Hemmings. I paid $100 for it and sold it for $1200...probably the most profit I've ever made on anything but now I wish I'd kept it.

 

Ed...what does the KwikWay facing attachment look like? It turns out it's missing from my machine and thus far I've been unable to find even a picture of one. I'm thinking that, because they work in a similar manner, the KwikWay tool might be similar. If I have to, I'll make one.

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The patterns for the water pump ends. These are almost done...I'll likely finish them tomorrow and visit the foundry.

 

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I also worked a bit more on the setup for boring the cam bearing. This is just about it...but I will need to make a longer bar.

 

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Since the machine uses a 1-1/4" bar and I'm using 3/4" for this job I took the bushings out of the first water pump to reduce the hole.

 

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