JV Puleo

My 1910 Mitchell "parts car" project

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9 hours ago, chistech said:

Joe, going to try and stop in withthat motor on Wednesday. I’ve got to go to Chicopee so I’m not sure what time I’ll be getting back by Woonsocket but sometime between 1-3:00 if that works for you.

 

That would be fine... I should be in all day.

 

jp

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43 minutes ago, alsfarms said:

Joe, I am curious, with all of the work you accomplish in one day

 

I am sure Joe has now become a quite a machining expert and plans the work he is going to do before he starts. I have been making 16 x 3/8BSW nuts and I reckon they have taken me nearly two and a bit days! Joe has motivated me and helped my learning of machining enormously with his excellent posts.

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12 hours ago, alsfarms said:

Joe, I am curious, with all of the work you accomplish in one day, do you set a limit on the time you spend in your shop or do you do like most of us do and go until you drop?  I find it hard to quit when I have a good rythym going with minimal intervening math issues!

Al

 

I usually start around 10 and work until 5. Twenty years ago I'd work half the night but I find that after 5 or 6 hours I'm really tired, my back hurts from standing all day and that is when I make most of mistakes. I'm not a tireless worker and the day is broken up with going up to the office to answer my emails and help out with photographs and other jobs related to the magazine we publish and that I am "technical editor" of. It isn't demanding work and largely consists of reading all the articles for technical errors... here's out web site.

 

https://gunandswordcollector.com/magazine/

 

And if that isn't enough there is this story... the gentleman being described here was the late EA Mowbray who trusted me to work on his RR and vintage Bentleys when I was still in my 20s. If you look closely, I'm in several of the pictures albeit 48 years ago.

 

https://gunandswordcollector.com/next-issue-childhood-cannon-memories/

Edited by JV Puleo (see edit history)
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That childhood memory and hearing about the weight of the cannon has made me think. How on earth did they manage to get all those cannons onto the decks of the ships in the 16th century? Thanks for the interesting break from old cars and engineering, it has made a pleasant change this morning.

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Ships were easy because they had masts. A derrick would be rigged and the gun slung around. Guns aboard ship had to be lashed down very  firmly. If they came loose during a storm they could go right through the side...hence the expression a "loose cannon,."

 

Invariably, the trunnions are located at the balance point so it is just a matter of rigging a tripod over the gun to lift it with a block & tackle and rest it in it's carriage. All of this required a certain amount of engineering knowledge. This is the reason the artillery had a lower social cache' than the Infantry or Cavalry. Because they were forced to commission officers who had specific knowledge they had to accept some who did have the social status generally preferred for officers. The same was true for the Navy where it was even possible for a pressed man to rise to officer status (this actually happened a few times).

Edited by JV Puleo
typo (see edit history)
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Thanks for the information, it is all very interesting. When I first saw the photos of  'you lot' fitting the cannon to the carriage I thought "Why don't they just lift into position!". Thinking about it and being sensible, I realise now, how heavy the cannon must be, as I have some difficulty with even lifting my 4-jar chuck onto the lathe!

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I think it weighed just about 1/2 a ton and the entire time that elapsed between having the idea and finishing the job was about 2 hours. We didn't have any of the proper equipment even if we'd planned it. What we did have was a lot of teenage - early 20s manpower. Of the folks in those pictures, about half have died and most of the other half are retired. I may be the last one that goes into the office every day but even in my case that is more because I than to than because I have to.

Edited by JV Puleo (see edit history)
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oh man Joe,  What a fun diversion from the Mitchell to see what else makes our friend Joe "tick"!  Being a High School graduate of 1972 I can most surely relate to the time and state of all your cohorts participating in the cannon event story so nicely told!  You rolled back the time for me!  I can only speak for myself, but I am a gun guy also and am into mostly collector type Military guns, both rifles and pistols. ( I do also have several nice sporting guns).  These guns are almost like "family" with each having a particular story that is recalled with fondness each time I have the gun out for showing, shooting or just out of fondness!  I will short circuit your Mitchell thread for just a moment and share one of my "34 years in the making" stories.  During each year on employment at the Power Generation Station, where I worked, I was awarded a gift card for being a good boy and performing well.  I checked with the issuing business, who was Cabela's.  (I hope readers here are familiar with who they are), where they allowed me to bank roll these gift cards.  When I retired I gathered them all up and with my wife in hand walked into Cabelas's and straight to the gun collection room.  I had my desire set on buying the best German P-38 pistol that I could find.  I was in luck!!!  They had, in a glass cabinet, a near pristine example complete with original holster and all the proper Nazi markings.  I took my new treasure to the counter and watched while the clerk counted and verified my award gift cards.  The moral to the story, be who you are and be your best all the time, small blessings almost certainly with follow in some form as they did for me.  I now have a very nice P-38 keeping company with a nice well used 30 Cal. Mauser Broomhandle and a nice grade 30 Cal. Mauser Bolo.  Both of those , like Paul Harvey would say, are another story.

Now back to the Mitchell

Al 

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Al, if you go to our web site and look under books you'll find The Collector's Guide to Military Pistol Disassembly and Reassembly...a book my friend Stuart (the little kid in the cannon story) and I did a few years ago.

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I think this has been a really productive day. I had a very nice visit with Ted (Christech) of Oldsmobile fame who dropped off the motor and speed controller he offered me. It looks as if it's just the thing. Thanks again Ted!

 

I also started on the thrust bearing that will go in the smaller of the two saddles on the crankcase. This is a piece of bearing bronze - something I bought on ebay because it had a "buy it now" price that was extremely reasonable even though I didn't have anything I needed it for at the moment. It's sure handy to have it in hand now. I thought I'd have to make some special bearings some time.

 

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Drilled and reamed to 3/4"

 

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And the OD turned on a mandrel.

 

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I can't finish this until I've finished with the front saddle and for that I'm waiting on some materials but here it is, on backwards. When finished the flange will provide a thrust surface for the gear that goes on this shaft.

 

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I also made a small piece to improve my measuring device. I learned that the tolerances are so close (probably something like .0001) that the set screw that retained the micrometer head bound up if it was tightened. A look at some other tools showed that it should really be clamped in place so I made a small sleeve and slit it with a .040 saw. This is the smallest saw I've ever used and I have to learn how to to do this well because I will eventually have to split the main bearing shells.

 

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And the piece in place although the reflection prevents seeing the slit which is actually facing the camera.

 

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I will use a clamping set screw collar which should hold the mic without interfering with it's operation.

Edited by JV Puleo (see edit history)
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Wait till you have to do the math on splitting the main shells.............do the math 30 times, and measure it ten times............nailed it on the first try on a Pope Hartford.........it also had the Babbitt poured into the crankcase.........we made the shells. It’s got 8K on it now, so it probably came out ok.

 

PS- it was the first time we ever did anything like that........used an old automobile handbook from 1915 we bought at Hershey in the 80’s, as it came with a bunch of stuff we actually wanted......never figured we would use the “bearing book” that came for free with the pile.

Edited by edinmass (see edit history)
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It was great meeting you and Stuart today. I enjoyed the visit and talking about the many things we discussed. Thanks for the tour of the shop and showing me more of the Mitchell.  I hope the motor and speed control will work for you.  I'm actually glad you are just about an hour away. Close enough to easily visit, far enough that I'm not going to visit too often as I  or you wouldn't be getting  much of our stuff done! LOL It is funny how many old car guys have  a similar appreciation for things like antique firearms, trains, and other like things. Many of us are out of some sort of similar type mold it seems. Today I was at a customer  who had inquired with me about packaging equipment to stretch wrap high quality lumber. I was ogling these long pallets of clear cedar 2x4's and 1x4's and realized how excited I was looking at the cedar because I knew just how nice of  wood it was and what I could do with it. When I commented on myself being a little crazy over wood, the manufacturer's rep who was with me, said that he knew exactly what I meant as it turns out his hobby is making quality furniture.  As I said, it seems people who tend to have the want to be or are craftsman all seem to be out of the same mold,  sometimes enjoying the same,  and sometimes different mediums. 

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2 hours ago, edinmass said:

Wait till you have to do the math on splitting the main shells.............do the math 30 times, and measure it ten times............nailed it on the first try on a Pope Hartford.........it also had the Babbitt poured into the crankcase.........we made the shells. It’s got 8K on it now, so it probably came out ok.

 

 

I'm in luck there. A prominent restorer, who must remain nameless, gave me his formula. I'll experiment first in any case and, if I have a problem, I also have a backup plan. What's the title of the bearing book? Perhaps I should look for a copy for my library.

 

 

Edited by JV Puleo (see edit history)
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49 minutes ago, chistech said:

It was great meeting you and Stuart today. I enjoyed the visit and talking about the many things we discussed. Thanks for the tour of the shop and showing me more of the Mitchell.  I hope the motor and speed control will work for you.  I'm actually glad you are just about an hour away. Close enough to easily visit, far enough that I'm not going to visit too often as I  or you wouldn't be getting  much of our stuff done! LOL It is funny how many old car guys have  a similar appreciation for things like antique firearms, trains, and other like things. Many of us are out of some sort of similar type mold it seems. Today I was at a customer  who had inquired with me about packaging equipment to stretch wrap high quality lumber. I was ogling these long pallets of clear cedar 2x4's and 1x4's and realized how excited I was looking at the cedar because I knew just how nice of  wood it was and what I could do with it. When I commented on myself being a little crazy over wood, the manufacturer's rep who was with me, said that he knew exactly what I meant as it turns out his hobby is making quality furniture.  As I said, it seems people who tend to have the want to be or are craftsman all seem to be out of the same mold,  sometimes enjoying the same,  and sometimes different mediums. 

 

You are welcome any time...the great advantage to not working for the trade is that I don't mind interruptions, especially when accompanied by interesting conversation.

 

jp

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11 hours ago, JV Puleo said:

 I may be the last one that goes into the office every day but even in my case that is more because I than to than because I have to.

 

Ooops... I have to take that back. One of those guys is Paul Zangari (owner of an unrestored 1931 Chrysler CM6 roadster) - one of my oldest friends and the afternoon news anchor on a local radio station. so... at least one of us still has gainful employment. Paul, and his brother John (both of whom are in the pictures) have a Saturday morning "car talk" radio program that has been running for something like 20 years now. In fact, I do the show with them a few times every year and sometimes fill in for one or the other if he can't be there.

Edited by JV Puleo (see edit history)
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4 hours ago, JV Puleo said:

 

I'm in luck there. A prominent restorer, who must remain nameless, gave me his formula. I'll experiment first in any case and, if I have a problem, I also have a backup plan. What's the title of the bearing book? Perhaps I should look for a copy for my library.

 

 

 

It was a Dykes Automobile Bearing book, It was all rather involved.....not impossible, but not a picnic. I’ll see if I can find the book next time I am up north, but it will be March at the earliest.

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I'm a long way from doing that job and I will be out of the country for February and early March so I have plenty to do...

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While I wait for some aluminum bar I need, I'm tying up a few loose ends. Today I made this little piece for the big boring bar micrometer. The original mic - which I have - has an odd size barrel and isn't interchangeable with the 10ths reading B&S micrometer head I have. Rather than make another device like I made for the 3/4" boring bar I made this new piece that will attach to the original holder and allow me to use the 10ths reading head.

 

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Edited by JV Puleo (see edit history)
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This is the micrometer holder with the 10ths reading mic fitted. I had to run out for a screw... with thousands of them around the shop I didn't have the right one.

 

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The material I needed also came in so I started on the tool I designed to finish the front side of the small saddle. A great deal of this will end up as chips on the floor.

 

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You can see here what I'm dealing with. The casting isn't really round and it doesn't line up perfectly. This is to be expected with a sand casting but I need this to be round because the housing that covers the gears is attached by clamping it around this piece and the corresponding piece on the timing gear. It uses a square rope seal which ought to work just fine if the surface it clamps to is both round and flat. As it isn't it would probably leak like a sieve.

 

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The aluminum bar drilled and reamed to 3/4" to be attached to the boring bar and then counterbored 2" to fit over the end of the saddle. I'll be mounting a cutting tool on this that I hope wil turn the saddle round and face the ears of the cap off perfectly flush.

 

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This is very experimental but I think it will work. I also had a very nice visit today from Gary Ash of the '32 Studebaker Indy car...a project that would be over my head.

Edited by JV Puleo (see edit history)
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Yes, I had a good visit with Joe for a couple of hours, saw the shop full of tools and serious machinery, the pieces of the Mitchell around the shop.  Joe is a charming, erudite fellow and skilled machinist!  I'm hoping he'll pay a visit to my garage.  I'm sure recreating his Mitchell is tougher in many ways than my Indy car replica.  At least I can buy all the engine parts, bearings, and other mechanical bits.  Keep up the good work, Joe!  

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I would sure like to be close enough to watch your boring process in action.

Al

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The next, and most tedious step is turning most of the tool down to 1-1/2".

 

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Several hours, and a large pile of chips later....

 

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And tried on the engine. The idea is to mount a cutting tool so that it will turn the OD of the saddle and face off the ears... I certainly hope it works as planned!

 

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Edited by JV Puleo (see edit history)
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I continued on making this tool today. First, milling a slot for the cutter.

 

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Then a notch so I can access the slot for some set screws.

 

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I stopped in the middle of this to grind this tool. I'm not certain it will work and I confess that tool grinding is not a strong point with me but I think it's ok. We'll know soon enough.

 

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Then drilled and tapped two holes for the set screws that will hold the cutter. I also drilled and tapped two holes for soft point 5/16-18 set screws to secure the tool to the boring bar.

 

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This is the finished product.

 

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I was tempted to stay late and try it when I discovered I'd failed to take into consideration an anchor for the boring bar gearbox to pull against. Since I'm working from the opposite side, and the rack is on the left, it's on the engine side rather than the outside. I'll have to make something for this but by the end of the day my thinking is muddy at best.

 

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