My 1910 Mitchell "parts car" project

[edinmass 9,519]

Can you have Mike bring my Ford T block down to your shop? I can have AJ pick it up.

Edited November 18 by edinmass (see edit history)

[JV Puleo 3,648]

I think he's already left...

[edinmass 9,519]

28 minutes ago, JV Puleo said:

I think he's already left...

Next time.......👍

Edited November 18 by edinmass (see edit history)

[JV Puleo 3,648]

I finally cut the slots in the end of the Cadillac pump shafts today which sets me up to cut gears next week.

First they were faced off and trimmed to the finished length. I'm not keen on cutting a face with so much of the work piece sticking out of the collet but the length was critical and I had to use a stop in the collet to make sure they came out identical.

 

 

I decided not to put in the flats for the set screws on the second shaft because until I take the other pump apart I don't know what I'll find...I may need to use different measurements.

 

 

Then 5/16 slots were milled in the ends... I went .025 deeper than the original shaft because I don't have the car here to check it against. slightly too deep makes no difference. Slightly too shallow would be a major headache.

 

 

You'll notice the new shafts are longer than the old one...this is because of the changes I made to the inside of the pump. They have more bearing surface now than they originally did.

 

 

I also drilled out the last remaining grease fitting hole and primed the other casting.

 

 

I'm away tomorrow so I wanted this done today so it could cure over the weekend. There is one piece left to make, a plug for the top of the pump to take the place of the water connection you see here.

 

 

These pumps had a connection that circulated hot water through the carburetor jacket. This was a compensation for the poor gas that was available in 1920 but it's not only not needed today, it is actually detrimental since, with the new ethanol-laced gasoline you certainly don't want to heat the gas. I'll make an aluminum plug that will look official ...

 

 

Edited November 18 by JV Puleo (see edit history)

[JV Puleo 3,648]

I hadn't planned to come in today but the project for this morning took a lot less time than I'd anticipated so I decided to make the plugs for the top of the water pump. Unfortunately, in order to grip the piece and have room to work it has to be about twice as long as it will be finished...

 

 

Not surprisingly, I thought of a better way to do this after I'd bought the stock and started the job. Still, the aluminum bar is relatively inexpensive - its actually the time it takes that makes this a lot of work for a very simple piece. I turned it down to fit inside the top of the pump housing...

 

 

Then flipped it around and took the excesses off... It would have been easier if I'd put a hole in the center and turned it on a mandrel or arbor but I don't want to have to plug that hole.

 

 

So, one down and one to go. When this is done, I should be able to assemble the first pump and, of course, I now have the parts to fix the second one.

[JV Puleo 3,648]

I trimmed the other plug first thing this morning and then set up the small dividing head to drill jp;es for the attaching screws. Rather than measure it, I used the original water connection.

 

 

Then drilled the holes...

 

 

 

Because my cam is round, it partly covers the holes for the bolts that attach this to the pump so I set it up in the mill to cut a half-circle relief for the heads of the bolts.

 

 

 

I also painted the other casting. Now I have a few small things to do... I have one gasket to make but I'm going to try using o-rings for the other two connections. I suspect this will work just fine and I don't like the idea of "gluing" the pieces together with gasket cement. I like to be able to take things apart if I have to...

 

 

Edited Saturday at 02:40 AM by JV Puleo (see edit history)

[blonko 2]

What I gained from Heldt was that the framework we currently think about a regular, the stuff siphon in the sump taking care of an inside oil kitchen was completely evolved by 1911, incorporating empty driving rods with interior oiling for the heading. In any case, it took effort for the frameworks we consider now "standard" to be completely acknowledged. Frequently they were costly to present. Practically the entirety of the early vehicle producers were gravely under promoted. With minimal additional cash, working in a real sense from hand-to-mouth, any change that necessary new gear or a delay underway was risky. Around 1910 the market began evolving definitely. Up to that point, Tutuapp 9apps Showbox essentially the sum total of what vehicles had been sold for money to the wealthy... yet, briefly in any event, that market appeared to have arrived at its common breaking point and was overwhelmed by a couple of significant creators - the popular "3 Ps" ring a bell. What was required was a way to deal with the working class... the home improvement shop proprietors, butchers and cooks. I presume a ton of the organizations fizzled in light of the fact that they couldn't roll out that improvement... reducing costs to meet the methods for the greatest market open to them while as yet meeting desires for execution. I believe that was the main driver of Mitchell degrading their motor in 1910... they cut their cost practically down the middle from 1909 while attempting to offer a "superior" vehicle. They scratched by yet, in 1923 when they presented a tragically terrible vehicle, the drop in deals executed them.

Edited Sunday at 03:44 PM by blonko (see edit history)

[JV Puleo 3,648]

Yes, that is precisely how I view the situation as well.

[JV Puleo 3,648]

There is an excellent book titled America Adopts the Automobile. It's not a "car book" in the conventional sense and I suspect it was the author's Doctoral Thesis but I've found it extremely useful in assessing what was really going on in the industry in the early 20th century. Yes, around 1910, for a short time at least, the luxury car market was saturated. The middle level makers faced a huge problem in that the very rich has plenty to choose from so increasing quality was not an option, even if they could have done it. The only market open was, as you say, the hardware store owner and other small businessmen and building a reasonably "big" car for a price they could sell it for in that market was a challenge. Aside from the chassis itself (which is pretty light), I don't see much on the Mitchell that is as poorly made as the engine so I also suspect that they were well into the design and production of the 1910 cars when they realized that they couldn't meet the necessary price point and took the path of cutting corners on the engine. Interestingly, the advertising material must have been in preparation before the design was finalized because in several places it does not agree with the final product and in a few others details are  left out.

 

Heldt makes it clear that the technology for making a better car was available and much of what we take as being the result of not knowing the best way to do things was, in reality, a matter of expense. They knew how to do it, but couldn't reconcile the cost with their goals. Also, cars were not expected to have a long life-span, at least not by modern standards so they could realistically ask themselves "will it last 5 years" because, if it did, it would be virtually worthless by then in any case. None of the great makers, Pierce, Peerless, Packard, Locomobile, RR and a few others thought this way but they dominated the "price is not an object" market. Ed's White is a great example...made by a company that was easily capable of making a fantastic car but logically assessing the market and realizing that they could do much better with trucks - which had to be durable because they were expected to work hard and last longer.

Edited Sunday at 02:47 AM by JV Puleo (see edit history)

[TonyAus 30]

For those interested in an informative read the author of America Adopts the Automobile 1895-1910 is J J (JIm) Flink, then Professor of Transportation and Cultural Studies at the University of California.  Some of his other transport related stuff is also worth chasing up.  Unfortunately I understand that his interests subsequently moved on to the history of jazz.  

[JV Puleo 3,648]

My plan is to assemble the first Cadillac pump...then move on to the gear cutting. I'd like to get the parts of the Cadillac pump off the bench and put aside so this morning I shortened 4 of these stainless cheese head screws to hld down the cap I made Friday.

 

 

Then started the assembly. Rather than a paper gasket - which would be a devil to cut neatly, I'm using a thin, flat 0-ring that is only about .120 thick with some RTV silicone "form a gasket".

 

 

This part went smoothly...I also put in the Zerk fittings and the drain,

 

 

To seal the shaft, I'm using 2 layers of 3/16 square, graphite impregnated pump packing and a modern seal...I suspect the packing would do the job just fine so the seal is just added protection against leaks.

 

 

Here I ran into an unexpected snag. There is a brass ring that presses down on the packing. When I tried to insert it, the shaft is slightly out of line with the housing. I suspect this is related to the braze repair. I know the shaft is mechanically straight because I lapped the bushings together. It wasn't out much, probably only about .010 but enough so that I have to make a new insert sleeve. I'd just turn the old one down a bit but the ID is too worn for it to grip on the expanding arbor.

 

 

Little as I like surprises like this, it really didn't take much time... I may add another layer of graphite packing too as I think there is room if I shorten the insert a bit.

 

[JV Puleo 3,648]

I finished the new retaining retaining ring for the pump packing and assembled the pump this morning. I then mounted it on an angle plate and filled it with water. This isn't a real test...but if a leak does show up it might as well be fixed now. To my surprise I did get a leak - a tiny one and not in any of the places you'd normally expect. It's weeping a tiny bit of water at the junction of the bronze piece and the main casting. This should be easy to fix as it just needs a better gasket.

 

 

 

I'm going to let that stand for a few days. Terry offered to make some gaskets so I'll get the measurements to him...

 

I then went on to the gear cutting by cleaning up a lot of the bits around the shop, putting things ways and taking a  look at the foot stock.

 

 

I hadn't examined it closely before. It was gummed up with old, hardened oil so I took it partially apart and got it working again...not a "restoration" but functional.

 

 

And mounted the test gear blank on a mandrel in the dividing head...

 

Edited 20 hours ago by JV Puleo (see edit history)

[edinmass 9,519]

Looks like black magic to me! ✌️

[JV Puleo 3,648]

It's nowhere near as bad as that insane Gemmer worm gear...I haven't a clue where you'd start to make one of those and I suspect, just as you have said, that it was designed to be made on a highly specialized machine. I am curious as to what the machine was and who built it. It's not impossible that there is another one around - perhaps not even being used or used for something else entirely. I once bid on a fantastic gear making machine with all of the tooling of about that vintage...I was the high bidder at $150 but the seller was approached by someone who actually knew what it was and what it could do so they cancelled the auction. I wasn't all that disappointed. I've no good place to put it and don't really want to go into the gear business but I hated to see it go for scrap.