JV Puleo

My 1910 Mitchell "parts car" project

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Joe, Do you use a smart phone?  If you do it likely has the provision for short video clips.  I am rather "slow" with my smart phone but stumbled on that feature on my phone.  I am surprised, I can actually take good video clips, with sound and post them just like a picture.  If you can do a clip, it would be fascinating to see your boring bar run and go through the motion of cutting an ID surface.  As mentioned, before, it generally takes way more time building the fixture than actually making the cut.  You will end up with a tool that could be modified to work on another application, (if needed).  My, isn't the machine/tool building process rewarding!

Al

Edited by alsfarms
addition for clarity (see edit history)
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No. I make very few phone calls and of those I get about 90% are robo calls. I do have a flip phone but  often forget to charge the battery and hardly notice it when I don't get a call for a day or two.

I think I am a lot ore relaxed about making the tooling than I am about the job itself. Working on the original parts always involves a certain amount of tension where making something I can scrap and start over is much less taxing.

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Joe,

All I can say is AMEN.

I do use the dang cell phone as I have to for business reasons and of course my family would have a "come apart" if I were to get rid of my phone. (I would like to)

Yes, messing around getting is creative and yet rewarding.  However, when you get on a piece that would be very hard and costly to replace, the tension does ramp up significantly.  Very rewarding when a rare piece that was worn out finds new life.....REWARDING!

Al

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Today I took the boring bar gear box apart to fix and what should have been an easy job still took most of the day. I started by putting a slot for a Woodruff key in the center.

 

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The challenge is that the selector inside the gearbox slides on this shaft. The key keeps the gear from rotating. But, since it's a sliding gear it needs a little clearance and the slot has to be perfectly placed and parallel to the shaft. The shaft was held in a collet block in the vise and it didn't work. After about two hours trying to get the gear to slide easily on the key I came to the conclusion that the keyway was very slightly crooked. If you were pressing a gear onto a shaft you'd never notice but in this case it kept it from working. So, I turned the shaft 180 degrees and did a second slot. This time with the collet block clamped to the mill table.

 

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This one was a lot better although I only got it to slide easily by using a little grinding paste and moving the gear back and forth over the key until the burrs (which were probably microscopic) were smoothed out.

 

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Then I milled flats on both ends for the set screws. I'll use soft point screws too. I don't like marking the pieces up and the difference in price when you only use a dozen or more a year, is inconsequential.

 

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I also made a sleeve that will adopt this to the small boring bar and another one that will mount the handle used to turn the bar for facing. One of the problems I had in understanding this was that it appears that at least one piece of the machine is missing and judging from the hard usage it's had, I suspect its been missing a long time. I'll need this machine for the main bearings so I might as well fix everything I can while I have the box open.

 

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I don't actually have the manual for this but I do have one from a very similar model. It includes the price list for replacement parts. This little gear box cost $75.00 in 1957. About 30 years ago I had one of these machines that had never been unpacked - everything was new and the address label to the shop that bought it was still nailed to the cover. I paid $100 for it from the racing car machinist who did some of my work in those days. I never used it and when I closed my garage I advertised it in Hemmings and sold before I even saw the ad for $1200. I was pretty happy with that but I wish I had it now.

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I am fascinated as to how the line boring machine works. I hope your photos and description will show this. I have looked on the internet and not found much so far.

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There isn't much. I spent a lot of time looking because I thought I'd have to build one. I even designed a gearbox. This one came up for sale while I was in England and a friend was able to contact the seller and make a deal for me. Fortunately, he was not in a hurry and content to wait until I got back. He even delivered it... although he was in Connecticut, he had worked in Woonsocket (where the shop is) some years earlier and had actually lived just down the street from the shop.

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I drilled and tapped the adapters that will attach the gear box to the boring bar and to an electric drill.

 

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The one on the left goes to the boring bar. The one on the right still has to be fitted with an extension that a 1/2" drill can attach to. The original part in this set was missing which may explain why the shaft in the gearbox was so badly chewed up.

 

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I decided to do this with 3/8 hex stock - which I happen to have - so I made an insert and broached it to receive the hex.

 

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Then drilled and reamed and used on of the 1/4" dowel pins I bought when I was making the oil pump.

 

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I may have made a small mistake here in that I think the original extension was much longer so the hand crank will clear the box when in use (there is a rack that fits in the square hole and it is long enough so that the hand crank must stand back from the rear of the box). It won't make a difference to a drill but it may make a difference when facing the bearings which is supposed to be done by turning the bar by hand. With that in mind I decided to make the extension out of aluminum (to save weight) and use brass inserts on either end ... on the female end to receive the hex stock and on the hand crank end to test my threaded inserts.

 

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Edited by JV Puleo (see edit history)
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Here's the insert with the hex hole broached.

 

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I also counterbored the back end so the broach only had to cut the area where the hex bar will go in.

 

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I then reamed a 7/8 hole about 2-1/2" deep in one end and drilled the other end for a 3/8-24 thread.

 

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The end with the insert was drilled and reamed for a dowel pin and the threaded sleeve screwed into the other end with a drop of Locktite on the threads.

 

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The gearbox with the handle attached.

 

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These are the 3 pieces I made. I have to get more soft point set screws but this part of the job is done. When I opened the box the machine is stored in I found the missing piece but I think mine are a bit better.

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While I was working on these parts yesterday it came to me that I'd made a mistake in the measurements for the micrometer boring bar adjuster. I'd forgotten that the hole for the water pump is a lot larger than the hole for the shaft and the way I'd made the adjuster it wouldn't travel far enough to do the water pump or the camshaft bearing. After thinking about it quite a bit I made this extension.

 

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I had to open the hole in the top of the adjuster up to 1/2".

 

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But it went together quite well. I doubt you can see it here but this is the adjuster with the mic set a zero and touching the bar. To get the cutting tool diameter I will use the mic and add .375 - half the diameter of the bar. If it works, that should get me within .001 of the desired diameters.

 

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I also dropped off an 11/32 end mill with the tool grinding shop to be ground to the hole diameter for a 3/8-24 thread. I want to use that to make the holes for the smaller threaded sleeves as the original holes look as if they were drilled freehand and when I set it up in the mill I can correct that.

Edited by JV Puleo (see edit history)
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Looks like a Kwik way bar kit cutting tool measuring device..................👍

 

Here is our pre war Quickway bar set up........made to be hand driven, but we set it up for a machine drive......much better results than by hand. Pierce V-12 block in photo.

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Edited by edinmass (see edit history)
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My machine is very similar. I may copy your drive though. I like that idea.

I have an old lathe bed to mount the crankcase on...of course, once this is done, I will probably never use it again.

Edited by JV Puleo (see edit history)
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In order to put the crankcase in the mill to drill the holes for the threaded sleeves I have to reorient it to face in. For that I took the torsion plates off and squared the ends. It's arranged in the mill so that the plates are bolted directly to the table with the end over one of the T slots so I don't hit the table.

 

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The ends squared off...

 

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Then I have to slot the front hole for long bolts that will hold it down to the bable.

 

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I only went through the top plate since I only need one slot. It marked the plate under it slightly but that is inconsequential.

 

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Then rebolted both plates to the crankcase lining them up on the holes for the lifters. This probably isn't perfect but it is as close as I can reasonably ger.

 

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The squared end will give me a surface I can indicate when I put this back in the mill.

 

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I also need 2 pieces of steel 29" long and 4" wide. All I have is this piece which is the correct length but 8" wide.

 

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So I pulled the vertical head and set the machine up as a horizontal mill. When I finally get my vertical mill back together I will leave this one horizontal. Horizontal milling has a lot of advantages but it's something of a pain to switch it over... though that may be because I do it so little. You can see how the head is supported by the crane. It weighs something like 300 lbs so soing this without the crane would be a real issue.

 

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With the machine in horizontal mode, I set the piece up to cut with an 8" slitting saw. The aluminum angle clamped to the table is there to give me a surface to measure against. It is also set up so that the saw descends into a T slot.

 

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I got a little more than half way through before my back started hurting from all the standing. I'll finish this tomorrow and switch the machine back to vertical.

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Joe, yet again I am blown away by your work and attention to detail. I have a few questions that are better shown with one of your photos on which I have added some numbers.

 

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1. Does the vertical head stay on the crane and just swing out of the way when not in use?

 

2. Is this an oil filter system you have fitted to the mill?

 

3. What is this long stainless steel or aluminium bar for that appears to be clamped to the table?

 

4. (not in this photo) Is that ordinary paper that you have stuck to the torsion plates for marking out for machining?

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Joe mentioned that piece of aluminum was clamped on the machine to help as a measuring device. I was curious also on how he changes out the two heads.

 

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The head unbolts and pulls out, hanging on the crane. It's unbolted in the 2nd picture above but I should have swung it around to the side for the photo. I'll take another today.

 

The mill had an internal cartridge oil filter that is long obsolete - it was missing too. I made that setup to replace it. The lines connect to the original oil lines inside the mill.

 

As christec has said – the aluminum angle is just to measure against.

 

I glued the paper drilling template to the plate and just didn't remove it. It came in handy when I had to measure and mark additional holes.

Edited by JV Puleo (see edit history)
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I had a bit of a problem first thing this morning... I'll post some pictures later but I apparently took too deep a cut and the saw gouged the key. When I tried to take it off I had to rap the blade with a plastic hammer and cracked it. I am almost all the way through but don't want to disturb the setup. So...I went to ebay to see if I could find a replacement saw and found two, in North Chelmsford Mass for about $35.00. I ordered those and some key stock from McMaster Carr. If I am lucky, I could have the stuff by the weekend but I'm not holding my breath. Now I'll have to find something to keep busy with until that comes in.

 

I have very little experience with slitting saws. This is only the 2nd time I've tried to cut steel. It appears that their use is counterintuitive. They run very slow and you have to be careful not to take too deep a cut.

Edited by JV Puleo (see edit history)

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Here is the machine with the vertical head bolted to its holding plate while set up to run horizontal.

 

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And the gouged key. Nothing else was damaged and if I hadn't cracked the saw I could have fixed it and gone on.

 

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You can see how close I was to finishing.

 

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This gave me a chance to think about some other aspects of the job. The setup for drilling and tapping the hold down clamps is so elaborate that I've decided to do the hole for the oil filler and two of the holes for the plate I'm thinking of making to hold a generator. The oiler went here. There were three screws, two of which are broken off in the crankcase. All three of these will get brass liners and I'll correct, as much as I can, the one that is drastically off center.

 

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Then I busied myself by tidying up the shop a bit and getting a flat surface on underside of the clamps.

 

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This was just sandpaper on the table of the drill press. I found it worked better dry than with a little oil on it. I lapped this piece to see how close the sandpaper technique got it and found that it was very good. The lapping wasn't necessary.

 

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That Brown & Sharpe mill seems to me a very clever bit of design. What sort of age would the mill be?

 

I felt for you with the saw problem, what a bummer. Could you not now use an angle grinder with a 1mm cutting disc to finish the cut?

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I could but I can find other things to do until the saw blades get here. In the long run, a few days either way doesn't matter much and if I get so other things done that will have to be done sooner or later nothing is lost.

 

The mill was probably made in the late 30s. It has an NMTB taper spindle and I don't think those were introduced until about 1934.

Brown & Sharpe was located in Providence, RI. I drove by the old factory every time I went to work and my late uncle was a long time executive there. It was through his son, my cousin, that I met  Henry & Peggy Sharpe. Henry was the last President of the company - before it closed down it's operations in the 1970s (the name was sold so there are new B&S tools but I believe they are made in Switzerland). Once, about three years ago, I had the current generation of Sharps (who would be about the same age I am) in the shop to see that mill run. They had never seen one in operation. I have a collection of their catalogs going back to 1878 and this one looks closest to the illustration in the 1938 edition.

Edited by JV Puleo (see edit history)
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I have some old original tooling by Browne and Sharp along with some tooling made close to me in New Bedford by Morse. The best damn drills and taps ever made. The new stuff just doesn't hold up.

 

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How right you are. And Morse developed the Morse Tapers. Virtually all lathes use MT tooling (Mikes being an exception!) and, until the advent of the NMTB tapers, practically all milling machines uses B&S tapers. There were others, like Jarno (developed by a B&S man) but between those three you'd cover about 90% of the machine tool trade.

 

Oh... and NMTB is the National Machine Trade Board. It was an association of all the major makers of machine tools, B&S included. They agreed on a uniform taper design so that the tooling would interchange between machines of different makes. The specifications are still in use today. When you see "CAT50" on a CNC tool holder it's the same taper as NMTB 50.

Edited by JV Puleo (see edit history)
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No real progress on the Mitchell today as I'm still waiting for the slitting saws. I spent the day cleaning up the area of the warehouse basement where I do some woodworking...a job that badly needed doing. This cutter did come in...

 

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I may have to have it reground with a more acute angle but I think this should do the trick. When I made the front hub for the engine and the end of the hand crank that has to mate with it, I could not figure out how the dog teeth were cut. I did think that when I finally figured it out, it would be insanely simple. Well, it is, although it takes a tapered cutter. After the teeth are cut, both pieces should be hardened and, in this case, I was careful to buy a known modern steel so when I take it for heat treating I can say exactly what it is. I'll do an experiment first though, just to make sure I got it right. I'd have done it today but I need the mill back in it's vertical mode.

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20 hours ago, JV Puleo said:

Virtually all lathes use MT tooling (Mikes being an exception!)

 

I always seem to be the exception. It's the story of my life!

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Here is a photo of the other end of the Quickway bar........you can see the feed mechanism for the cutter. The bar is driven from the other end. Originally this was a hand driven set up. We found that using the electric motor provides a much better finish.

9E28C544-3635-4406-A97D-AEE7E25C3FD2.png

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The Ammco bar is set up in almost exactly the same manner although I've been told the Kwikway has a better centering system. The instructions I have (which are for a later version) suggest driving it with a 1/2" electric drill and only using the hand wheel for facing the bearings. I'm going to try the electric drill on the first hole - the one for the magneto/water pump shaft. If I think it will help, I'll look into using an electric motor. Do you happen to know what rpm you run it at? I'm thinking it would have to be pretty slow. I might look for a slow DC motor to do it.

 

Even though I had one of these years ago, I never used it and sold it when I closed my garage. David Greenlees suggested I get another - his comment was that if you are patient and careful setting it up it will do an excellent job - that the usual problem with automotive machine shops is that they are in a hurry to get it done fast and not all that careful how they do it. In any case, I don't really have a choice in this. It's a job that is only suitable to someone who has a good grasp of early car work.

Edited by JV Puleo (see edit history)
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