JV Puleo

My 1910 Mitchell "parts car" project

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That is the basic idea behind the first one I made although mine is much more complicated. I wanted to get away from the business of controlling it by hand...but I've now found that isn't as much of a problem as I'd thought. The major problem I discovered after I'd done all that work is that when the tool rotates horizontally it requires a lot of room between the chuck or collet in order to reach the back. That's not a problem if you are making a threaded ball - you can just attach it to a longer threaded rod but in this case, the part that holds the ball is also part of the finished item and there just isn't much room back there. When the tool moves vertically you can work with much less space because all you have to allow for is the width of the actual cutting tool.

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Joe, a nice bit of lateral thinking. It is very pleasing when you find a use for a bit of kit that has been sitting about in the workshop. The finish on the ball looks amazing. As lathe cutting tools normally move in from the front or behind we tend to forget that they can actually come in from any direction. Keep up the excellent posts. Mike

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Having the ball turning device more-or-less working (I still need to practice with it) I started on three more of the blanks for the banjo fittings.

 

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I don't know if I've shown this before, but this is my setup for drilling a hole to a prescribed depth. There is no scale on the quill so when you want a hole to stop is can be a little difficult to calculate where.

 

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The three new pieces ...

 

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And set up in the lathe. There is a technique to doing this that I'm learning as I go. Of course, I'll probably master it just as I finish the last one and never need that skill again.

 

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And this is my other job... one I undertook for a friend because no one would touch it. I agreed to give it a try with no guarantees. It's a 1909 Jackson that threw a rod. The camshaft side of the crankcase was smashed and welded back together. It's a brilliant welding job but the front and middle holes for the cam unavoidably had weld on the inside. I line bored the crankcase in my lathe, one of the most heart-stopping jobs I've ever done but it actually came out right. The front bearing is no problem, I'll just make a new one but I have a major headache in that the owner of the car had a new camshaft made. The nitwits that assembled put the original bearing back on. The cam lobes are attached with tapered pins and they also peened over the ends so I can't tell which side is the small one. I should take the bearing off but drilling out the pins accurately and replacing them is a serious challenge. So... I think I have a solution which I'll share in the next week or so unless someone here knows a trick for taking out tapered pins that I haven't heard of.

 

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The center bearing is now about .035 smaller than the hole it fits in. I'm thinking that maybe I can make a two-piece bearing that will clamp in the center (there is room for this) that will have a slightly larger diameter... we'll see.

Edited by JV Puleo (see edit history)

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Hello Joe,

 

Its all looking good! In regards to the cam bearing on the Jackson. The split bearing would work fine.

I have the same arrangement on the big Wisconsin. The center bearings are split the end bearings are solid.

 

Each center bearing (two per cam) is locked in place by a large diameter headed screw threaded into a counter bored hole in the top of the crankcase

and engaging a flat surface on the bearing. Below is a very poor photo. However, you can see the general shape. Visible just

above and to the left of the cam bearing is the hole for the retainer screw in the top of the crankcase.

 

I can get some much better photos of the actual bearing if you feel it would help you.

 

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Best regards,

 

Terry

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Terry, how are the two halves held together? I'm thinking I should make one that will replace what is there... but to do it first. Then, if it comes out right, I can cut the one that is on the cam off with a Dremel tool. It'll be a PIA on the ends where it is large but not really difficult. I could even mill it through about 90% of the way and then cut the remainder. If I get some scratched in the shaft they'll only serve as oil grooves.

 

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Here are the 4 "blanks" for the banjo fittings. Not surprisingly, the last one came out best but all of them are acceptable.

 

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I made the high head bolts that hold down the valve cages. They are OK but I was frustrated by the fact that original period bolts usually have a slight crown to the head. At the time I made the bolts, I couldn't do that so I put a slight chamfer on the edges. They obviously work but they didn't look right. So, I set the radius tool to as large a radius as I thought it could turn without chattering and put one of the bolts in the lathe.

 

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This job is much easier to do because the radius is fixed. All you are doing is moving it in and that can be done by moving the saddle of the lathe. I took very small cuts and left the machining marks - which are very light. Now, rather than looking like I made them they just look like old bolts.

 

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Edited by JV Puleo (see edit history)
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Nice Joe!

 

Here are a couple of photos of the split cam bearing. The lighting wasn't very good and

I had left all the original grease and oil on the cam to protect it until I can clean it for

installation. The cams are almost 5 feet long and rather heavy so I cheated and took

the photos as is where is.

 

In this photo you can just make out the part line. Also, note the small ears. These are for the

screws holding the halves together.

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Here is a better view - you can make out the head of the screw. The gear is for the oil pump drive.

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Nice touch with the bolts, those really look good.  It is a subtle difference but when everything in the engine bay is done the same the effect is just right.  When something isn't period correct, it stands out pretty bad.  I'll be having that issue with the Metz (hopefully soon) and I'll be trying to get that radius turning gadget I found in Asheville working on the Hendey. 

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Joe, nice job with the 4-balls, a pair of shivering brass monkeys would be very pleased with them. Just In case, you Americans from the other side of the pond don't understand - We have a saying in the UK "It's cold enough to freeze the balls off a brass monkey"!

 

The bolt head also looks much more period, a nice job.

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OK Mike,  I also do not know the exact origin of the "Brass Monkey" quote you have shared, but we here in the mountain west of the US are well versed in the use of that same quote.  When that phrase its used you know it means cold!  I agree with the comments from Mike, small attention to detail certainly makes for a more era style of repair/rebuild.  Joe, keep up the good work.  You will have the only Mitchell, in the whole world, that will run and have a little touch of the RR world class detail and engineering!

Al

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The saying comes from the days of sailing warships. A brass tray would hold a pyramid stack of cannon balls next to a cannon on a ship. That brass tray was called a monkey and when the weather was cold enough, the tray would contract enough and the stack of cannon balls would fall off the tray.

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That is an interesting historical story of the "Brass Monkey".  That is not even close to what I had thought was the story behind the brass monkey, balls and cold!  Speaking of winter, how is it on the east coast for you fellows?  We in the west have only had a SO-SO winter to date.  Lots of cold but not so much snow and we need and rely on the snow for our summer water.  Joe, do you have the cam for your Mitchell?

Al

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1 hour ago, chistech said:

A brass tray would hold a pyramid stack of cannon balls next to a cannon on a ship

Yes, that is the common story. But I don't  believe it. Balls are spherical. How do you stop the first layer rolling away when putting the second layer on it? And it is on a SHIP, which is never stationary, so there is no way anybody could stack cannon balls like that!

 

The only reference to "monkeys" on a ship is the "powder monkeys" who carried the charge from the magazine to the cannon.

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The next step was milling the flats...

 

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So, now I have 4 "lollipops"

 

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Now I have to drill and ream the holes. I used the surface plate to get the piece parallel. I wasn't too thrilled with this but the only alternative was to make them one at the time without ever taking them out of the collet block.

 

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None of this part of the job worked as I'd planned. I had intended to drill and ream in the drill press but as things developed that wouldn't work. In the end I did it in the mill albeit having to change tool holders 3 times. In the end, I used a counterbore to face off both sides. I hadn't planned to do that but it turns out to have been a very good idea because now the hole in the center and the faces are absolutely perpendicular.

 

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Here's the first one. You can see the hole for the copper tubing. When all four are done I'll have to figure out how to mill the groove that runs around the inside.

 

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I think solid shot was usually kept in racks along the gunwales. It might have been stacked on deck for inspections and the like but that seems a poor idea if the ship was rolling - as they all were much of the time.

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On 1/17/2019 at 12:10 PM, alsfarms said:

That is an interesting historical story of the "Brass Monkey".  That is not even close to what I had thought was the story behind the brass monkey, balls and cold!  Speaking of winter, how is it on the east coast for you fellows?  We in the west have only had a SO-SO winter to date.  Lots of cold but not so much snow and we need and rely on the snow for our summer water.  Joe, do you have the cam for your Mitchell?

Al

 

So far, very little snow. It is cold, but probably not as bad as the midwest or Maine. My English friends are always aghast that I visit in February which, to them is the depth of winter. It is something of a running joke now because a British February, at least in the Midlands,  is more like Spring here. That said, they did have some serious snow last year.

 

Yes, I have a new cam, made for me by a friend who is also assembling a 1910Mitchell. We've been trading bits. I send him the stuff I'm not going to use (he's a lot more interested in keeping his car exactly as made) and he's made several things for me. As an aside (this pertains to the thread on the 1908 REO and the price of unrestored early cars) you have to be in the loop to take advantage of the sort of open exchange of parts and knowledge that characterizes many early car enthusiasts. Buying an unrestored wreck is the ticket of admission. Quite a few things that people here moan about the cost of are nowhere near as expensive as may generally be believed when like-minded enthusiasts are helping each other.

Edited by JV Puleo
typo (see edit history)
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Whenever I think it's cold here I remind myself of northern Maine. It doesn't make me any warmer but I don't' feel so bad about it!

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9 hours ago, Spinneyhill said:

Yes, that is the common story. But I don't  believe it. Balls are spherical. How do you stop the first layer rolling away when putting the second layer on it? And it is on a SHIP, which is never stationary, so there is no way anybody could stack cannon balls like that!

 

The only reference to "monkeys" on a ship is the "powder monkeys" who carried the charge from the magazine to the cannon.

Yes, that is the story that’s told and joe is also correct that the shot was kept in wood racks along the insides of the ships. It is more believed that the reference is a late 18th, early 19th century American mixture of crossing extreme cold temps with the young powder monkeys, then dropping the shot with frigid hands, and the other statement of “ as cold as a witches tit in a brass bra”. It’s believed to be a compilation of all that. So basically, no one really knows where it came from!😂

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Sorry Joe, for the joke about the "shivering monkeys", I didn't mean to start a long discussion! Luckily, I can't think of a joke about "lollipops"!

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No problem Mike... I like a little digression and I actually got the joke but I've spent a lot of time in the UK over the past 30 years.

 

Al... regarding the cam. My friend didn't have one at all. I had two of them, neither of which was in any condition to use. One was badly rusted and the other had big chunks of the hardened surface broken out. However, my friend has a cam grinding machine and knows how to use it. I loaned him one of mine and he made two based on the dimensions. That's what I mean about exchanging stuff and expertise. I imagine this goes on all the time - at least I hope it does - but to the guys who think only with their checkbook it is largely invisible.

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Good Morning Joe,  I also enjoy a bit of levity from time to time, as you can tell!  I have heard of another saying that came from early Brit. sailors.  Maybe sometime it will bubble to the top and I will see how to use it in this dialog of yours.  Now for the sharing of parts.  I could not be where I am without some gracious help from other Locomobile owners.  Like you, instead of just having a few rare parts and with 40 years of patience, I am bearing down on a complete and running Locomobile.  Sometimes however, it pays to keep a friendly relationship and have a few parts to offer in help, patterns or to trade.  But even small things can result in big helps.  On the Wisconsin "M" engine that is next up for me, some helpful owners, Terry, Don and Lew, have been so helpful and I now have VERY nearly a complete and rebuildable engine core!  What is the latest thoughts on your oil pump?  Do you have the water pump also?

Al

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