My 1910 Mitchell "parts car" project

[1912Staver]

Pretty good bet that Mitchell didn't build the rear end. With any of the smaller makers, and many larger ones as well,  axles were very frequently a bought in component. 

Am I correctly understanding that you intend to fit a proper thrust bearing on both sides of the diff ? Sounds like a good plan if you have the room.

[JV Puleo]

Yes...

The quality of the machine work on the differential is noticeably better than the engine or the general chassis parts, hence my guess they didn't make it. I intend to use a roller thrust bearing on the reverse side where it just had a big steel "washer"...I'm not even certain it was hardened and, if I had to use a washer, I'd use a bronze one. I also suspect that the ones that were in there were not the originals, hence the galling on the projections on either side of the ring gear.

 

One problem is that the roller bearings are 3" wide where the Hyatt bearing was 2-7/8". This is taking some figuring to work around but I think I came up with a good solution last night. I'll post some photos of the original pieces when I'm back in the shop. I was tied up with some family matters today so it's been one of the rare days that I didn't go in.

 

The ring gear ran perfectly true in the lathe supported by a mandrel through the center. It's obvious the parts were accurately turned off the center. When you think of it, the business of heat treating axles and making bevel gears is so specialized that they would have been foolish to make those parts themselves. The requisite capital expenditure on machines would have been very large and, for the most part, this is the only component that would have required them.

 

I found a metric 3-piece thrust bearing that is just about the right thickness so I'm guessing that if it needs to be adapted all I'll have to do is grind the back faces of the races....and that only about .010 to .015. Even if it's .020, that's only .010 on each piece.

Edited July 18, 2021 by JV Puleo
typo (see edit history)

[Terry Harper]

On 7/16/2021 at 11:26 AM, Walt G said:

" Send me everything you have on a 1931 Cosgrove" , no ssae, no please, etc. Austin would state to me ( I worked for him as his librarian as I have noted previously) "here is another one for the recycle file" that meant it went in the trash basket.

Walt,

So true! I have lost count of requests for "everything you have" Really? I spent time, money and treasure amassing those documents photos etc. Ask me a specific question or questions and I will be more than happy to answer it and provide references (primary source - not secondary or third) but hand over everything... no. Then there is the tendency today to simply reference the last published article, paper etc. on the whatever the subject maybe rather than seeking out primary source material to verify the "facts" so instead we get "facts" that are nothing more than folklore morphed into hard "facts" simply by repeating it often enough. Then there are the "authors" who I provide referenced information to who replace it with folklore because that's what everyone believes so the corporate documents, photos, first person accounts etc. I referenced must be wrong.

 

Awhile back I actually provided corrections (17 specific factual errors) to a state agency website in regards to some historical information. Again, with proper reference to primary source material. They never made the corrections but still demanded that I turn over "everything you have". No.... my motivation was that at least one book and a number or articles had cited the website and simply repeated the errors with no concern if the information was correct or otherwise.

 

 

[Walt G]

Terry, It is a sad fate that this is happening - not every time or all the time, but enough to make a number of us here take notice and have a deep sigh of regret that with a bit more patience and diligence the correct answer could have been found. Trouble is most people do not want to bother to take the time or say they don't have the time and are so used o pressing a button for an answer have forgotten how to look something up. Everyone wants something "done" and no one wants or knows how to do it or where to look to find how to do it.

Yes it can be very difficult to find information but there are people who know where the primary source information is located and they can be asked to share that "where" it is.

The stories I write I like to cover topics that have not been covered before but indeed are part of what went on. Fiction becomes fact if it is repeated long enough and if it is associated to what is supposed to be a reliable known source then most people naturally take it for granted what has been stated is the truth. I always question where something of historical "fact" has been found, just so that misinformation does not continue.  Treasure is not in gold it is in knowledge. ( no that statement is not my own original but something I read and the credit was not noted)

Lecture/opinion 862 is now over. 🤐

[Walt G]

Joe, I apologize if I got this off topic.

Walt

[chistech]

That’s why so many of us enjoy Joe’s Mitchell thread. It’s his findings in facts that’s right in our face. Some of us hate the BS some prevalent in today’s society others thrive on it and only want to hear what they want. I’ve done a ton of research on the 32’ Olds model year. I now have many people contact me when wanting information. The other day a guy I’ve been helping told me that I must be wrong because a couple guys out his way told him how it should be. Now of course anyone including me can be wrong but my statements come from actual research and copies on factory bulletins, not hearsay. Too many spread fairytales. If someone needs correct information and I can only assume the answer, I will refer them to someone I believe is the right person. If it was a Mitchell or a difficult machining issue, I would and have recommend Joe. If it was a due se berg or large classic, it would be Ed.

[JV Puleo]

There is no need to apologize. I regard all of this as pertinent. I think we can ask ourselves what we are doing and why are we doing it? I don't think anyone will disagree that it is far out of step with what is projected as "pop culture". I was in a barber shop a couple of days ago and overheard two guys my age going on about yard work and playing golf. I think most people would presume those were appropriate subjects when you are in your late 60's...I only do yard work when I have too and I wouldn't be caught dead playing golf. I'd rather watch paint dry - or better still, work in my shop or read the Privy Council Registers. To a small extent I see my shop work as a form of "living history" — Using tools from the period to replicate or create things and getting a feel for how things were done in the process. On more than one occasion I've read or been told that thus-and-such a thing was done...or to realize that it was almost physically impossible. Here's my most recent example:

 

The late Ralph Stein wrote that RR chassis were assembled with tapered bolts inserted into individually reamed tapered holes. This has been repeated countless times, most recently in the special RROC "Silver Ghost" issue of the Flying Lady. I always wondered about this and years ago, when I had a couple of stripped PI chassis at my disposal, I took some chassis bolts out.

 

They aren't tapered. They were, however tight in the holes. Here's what I've deduced happened...The holes were drilled undersized in fixtures as the parts were made. The chassis was assembled, likely in a big fixture and all of the angles checked and the pieces minutely adjusted so the angles would be perfect. Then, one at the time, the holes were reamed with a tapered alignment reamer ground to make a hole about .0005 smaller than the OD of the bolt. After being tightened on a single beveled edge washer, the nuts were "staked" - nicked with a pointed tool at the intersection of the thread.

 

When you think about it, a tapered hole makes no sense. In something as thin as a chassis rail - where even if two pieces were being joined you would hardly ever have more than 1/2" of thickness, reaming an accurate tapered hole is extremely difficult. If you go even a few thousandths too far, the bolt will never tighten properly and the result will be worse a straight hole. Multiply that problem times hundreds of holes and no chassis would ever have been completed.

Edited July 18, 2021 by JV Puleo (see edit history)

[Walt G]

There have been "experts" around since the years just after WWII who would expound on topics and things that they assumed had to be correct, and thus did become correct in their minds just because they wanted it to, how else could it have been?  All that Joe states is what yo should believe. Some great research and history was written about in the early 1950s into the early/mid 1960s by important expert types who had egos to match their expertise. I will not comment further except to say that the trend for expert egotists the know-all/see-all types still abound prolifically. Personally , I shudder when someone refers to me as an "expert" about anything , like everyone else I still have a lot to learn and really welcome that . It is why I so enjoy the posts here about restoration by fellows who have spent decades perfecting what they enjoy doing and have learned first had what is what . Also all the period images can give such a vast understanding of what the vehicles were like when new.

Thanks Joe, Ed, Matt, and all of you for sharing your experience.

Walt

Edited July 18, 2021 by Walt G (see edit history)

[Terry Harper]

15 minutes ago, Walt G said:

Personally , I shudder when someone refers to me as an "expert" about anything , like everyone else I still have a lot to learn and really welcome that .

And that is why I have never written the book I am always encouraged to write - I simply don't feel I know enough yet. Stuff still keeps coming to light and I really enjoy the research and learning process. 

 

Joe, great insight on the tapered bolts! An excellent example of acting on a hunch that something isn't quite right and proving for yourself if it's true or not.

[JV Puleo]

Well, since I'm in the book writing business - and have written more than one myself - I will comment on Walt's and Terry's reluctance to do the same. Like Walt, I shudder at the term "expert" in the popular sense. An expert is someone who realizes what they don't know. But...as folks who have done primary research we have what is near an obligation to share what we've learned. If we don't, the fairy tales continue forever. I have personal experience with a book that was being compiled by a good friend who was "waiting to retire" before he started. Unfortunately, he died a few months after he retired and his vast knowledge of the subject is lost forever.

 

Many times I have had to guess...as long as it is clear to the reader that it is a guess and the pertinent reasons for the guess are stated, I have no problem with doing that. I call it "informed conjecture" and who is better qualified to do this than the person who has first hand knowledge of the subject.

 

To return to cars, I'll bet that Ed has learned a lot about how the great classics were built simply by having to take them apart and fix them. The same goes for Ted and everyone else here who has actually been inside early machines and/or spent hours in a library reading the same stuff that the original makers read.

 

[edit] Walt is spot on about period photos too. In the books I do we make a concerted effort to find every period image we can - nothing can replace them.

Edited July 18, 2021 by JV Puleo (see edit history)

[edinmass]

Each year I try and learn even more history, construction, and engineering of automobiles of the pre war era............the only thing for certain I have come away with...........I know even less than I realized the year before while continuing to add to my knowledge base. It’s the reason I bought my White in the first place.........and after digging in, I decided that I wanted another. Less than a year ago, I would have glanced at it and walked past. Take it apart.........and I fell in love. And had to have two........and it’s a sure bet another will come along..........only question is when. As for the 1929 Stearns Knight Brunn auto show car........every time I lay my hands on it, it surprises me with its quality and engineering, 

Edited July 18, 2021 by edinmass (see edit history)

[JV Puleo]

Getting back to my project...although I enjoy these digressions at least as much...the grade 8 studs came in to finish the Pittman arm. First I had to shorten one.

 

 

 

Then drill a hole for the split pin. Because I've done this quite a bit, I have little fixtures that make it easy.

 

 

One thing I was worried about was how to get the nut really tight without the ball turning. To do that, I put the ball in the collet on the lathe that I'd used when I drilled and tapped the hole...not knowing if it could hold it tight enough but the only thing I could think of.

 

 

In fact, it worked quite well and I was able to slip the pin in and fold it over. This part is done now...

 

 

In the midst of this I'm also doing an experiment with the motorcycle parts. I had planned to get the black parts powder coated and I may still do the frame that way but this is a very low budget restoration - in fact, "restoration" is probably not accurate since I've no problem modifying it to suit my tastes. It will never be terribly valuable and, even if it comes out great, will probably only be used to go back and forth to the shop on nice days. I'm trying to bake enamel paint. This is the front brake backing plate. It was chrome plated but there is no way I'm going to do that or buy a new one. I removed the rust and what was left of the chrome in the electrolysis tank, sprayed it with rattle can etching primer and then black Rustoleum.

 

 

Then put it this toaster oven I inherited with the motorcycles... 180-degrees for about 1 hour. I confess to having found this on a custom motorcycle web site.

 

 

I'm curious to see if it works. They were usually finished with baked enamel in the first place but whether I can do it remains to be seen. If it works, I'll have to find a bigger oven since the one I have at home hasn't worked in about 15 years... (actually, I'm replacing it later this summer).

Edited July 18, 2021 by JV Puleo (see edit history)

[chistech]

That toaster oven is a Black and Decker. It belongs in the shop! 

[JV Puleo]

I hadn't thought of that. I have a Black & Decker valve grinding machine too!

[Luv2Wrench]

The timer broke on our large toaster oven in the house... so I moved it to the shop.

 

[JV Puleo]

I'd have kept this one at home and used the one I have there - which is looking pretty "shop like" but this one is bigger...

 

These are the thrust bearings form the drive side of the differential. As you can see, the original ones are pretty scabby.

The replacement is below. I'm not thrilled with it but it was cheap and my idea was to buy the better version if everything works out...I think the Timkin costs about $40 - this one cost $14 but I have a drawer full of bearings I've bought and then changed something so this time I'm going to make sure I've got the right size to begin with.

 

 

The new roller bearings are 1-1/2" wide. Using 2 on each side, that makes 3". I need two spacers to take up the remaining space and provide a surface that centers the thrust bearing. One is .100 thick with an OD of 2.5" - the other is .680 thick with an OD of 65mm.

 

 

Both have an ID of 2" so I'll make them from this piece...

 

 

I was hoping I had an appropriate piece of steel tubing. I don't, so I'm stuck having to bore this out to 2". It isn't difficult, but it takes time. I got to about 1.5" before I decided to quit for the day.

 

 

And, while I was doing this, I baked the backing plate a little longer. I can't tell if it's much better than just painting it but enamel paint takes a very long time to dry completely. I suspect the baking just speeds the process up. In any case, I'm satisfied with the outcome. You'll notice that I didn't even bother to fill the rust pits. I refuse to obsess about this job. The goal is a clean, working bike that I like...not something I'll be displaying at local car shows. In fact, the only car show I've been to in years finally died this year so that's not really an option.

 

Edited July 19, 2021 by JV Puleo (see edit history)

[JV Puleo]

I took yesterday off to help my cousin remove the snow plow from a truck he's scrapping...today I got back to the rear axle. The piece of bar I'm making the spacers from was bored to 1.985 and reamed to 2".

 

 

Then, without removing it from the chuck, I turned a sort piece of the end down to 2-1/2"

 

 

And cut the spacer off.The finished thickness will only be about .100 but working with such a small piece isn't my forte...

 

 

It now has to be surface ground to get the correct thickness. As it is, it's about .080 thicker than I want. My lathe - in fact all my machines, really weren't made to make tiny bits & pieces so this is more trying than you'd think...

 

 

I put the remaining piece on an expanding mandrel and started to turn it down. This spacer will be .680 thick and much easier to work with. As you can see, I have plenty of extra material. I actually did that because if I make an error I can re-make the part without having to bore another piece of bar. It would have been more efficent to make these from DOM tubing and, if I'd had to order the material, that is what I'd have used.

 

 

Unlike the bearing races, I see no reason why they have to be hardened. There is no radial load on thrust bearings and these will be running in an oil bath. I think it's very unlikely they would wear out in two or three lifetimes unless badly abused.

[JV Puleo]

The next piece turned down to 65mm - 2.559. It's actually a coupe of thousandths under because I want it to spin without any drag.

 

 

Then, because using the cut-off tool on what is effectively a thick steel tube takes forever - and I have the extra material, I used the saw to cut a piece off.

 

 

Then it was faced down to .680. This went so sell I decided to forgo the surface grinder on this piece.

 

 

At the base of the projection on the differential gear I left a tiny bit of the original surface...this was because I wasn't comfortable turning right into the base and the bearing surface is below the surface of the gear which made it difficult to do.

 

 

The solution was a small counterbore.

 

 

Then into the press... first the 65mm ring and then the two internal bearing races.

 

 

The new piece I made slipped on so I added a bit of Locktite "slip fit." The bearing races pressed on and aren't going anywhere.

 

 

I slipped bearing on to see how they looked... Notice that the metric thrust bearing fits on the gear as if it was made for it. In thinking about it, I'm now convinced that it must have had something very close to this to begin with and that the thrust bearing I took out were a ham-fisted replacement. The holes in the center were much too big which caused them to move radially, hence the galling on the projecting piece.

 

 

All this went quicker than I'd anticipated but rather than fire up the surface grinder at the end of the day I took a break and assembled the front brake for my motorcycle...

 

 

Which, surprisingly, was more difficult than I expected even as simple as they are. Those springs are not easily stretched. Obviously I found a way to do it - and didn't even have to make a special tool (although I thought of it).

[JV Puleo]

I started up the surface grinder and ground the small spacer to the finished thickness of .102. This machine has given me a lot of trouble in the past. It's very worn out, which is why I was able to buy it for $150. I have a better one but I took it apart to move it and haven't yet reassembled it. Thankfully, it worked perfectly today.

 

 

Then over to the press to install the parts...

 

 

This is the reverse side of the differential. Rather than a hardened washier or bronze thrust washer I'm using one of these little roller thrust bearings. There is a hardened shim ob the side facing the casting but doesn't need one on the bearing side because it bears against at hardened and ground surface.

 

 

So...this is where I started...

 

 

And where I ended up.

 

 

The new bearings have a capacity wildly in excess of anything needed here. One of the features of working with brass cars is that bearing technology was in it's infancy before WWI. As a result, they used big bearings that often weren't all that good. In order to replace them we find ourselves having to use bearings that are huge. I think these bearings would support the axle of a Sherman tank...

 

What doesn't show here is that I've been trying to devise a solution for rebuilding this part for the best part of 10 years. This may be the fourth or fifth design and it's certainly the 2nd time I bought bearings - the others will go into my "parts I bought and didn't use" box.

[Terry Harper]

Most excellent Joe!

Thats one more worrisome project checked off! Must feel good!

[JV Puleo]

 

There's one last piece to this puzzle. The seat in the rear axle housing is 3-1/2" in diameter while the bearing races are 3-1/4. To take up the difference I'm making two "clamping shims" out of aluminum tubing with a 1/8" wall. I needed the big chuck for this because the small one won't grab enough of the tube to hold it steady while I cut it off.

 

 

The finished size will be 2-7/8" so I cut the pieces off a little over 3"

 

 

Then cleaned the end up and flipped it around to trim it to length.

 

 

These still have to be split. The next up is the drag link and for that I have to make several tools - one of which will use the same slitting saw so I'll get that ready then do all three things at the same time.

 

[JV Puleo]

I didn't get much done today. I don't have many local friends but just about all of them chose today to stop by and visit - which isn't a problem since I'm not doing this for a living...actually, when I had my garage I didn't have a telephone there (this was long before cell phones) - my thinking was that people were always welcome to stop in but they'd have to make the effort. A phone would have been a constant distraction. In any case, I did get to drop the gear into the rear axle housing to see how it fit. It fit just about perfectly - better than it did with before I replaced the bearings - another clue to the possibility that the thrust bearings that were in it were not the correct ones.

 

 

 

It spins effortlessly and there is plenty of room for adjustment and for the seals. I will not have to modify the thrust bearing...

I didn't slit the aluminum sleeves because some new ideas came to me. One of the advantages to running gear oil in the rear end is that I can eliminate the big grease cups that were mounted on the caps. If the oil level is nearly half way up the gear, it will be above the lower end of the rollers. This also eliminates the need to put a "try cock" in the side to check the level. It's easy enough to take the cover off - although I don't have the correct cover and that is another piece I either have to find or make. The one I have fits properly, but the bolt holes don't come near lining up with the holes in the housing.

 

In the midst of all this I also went on with my "baked enamel" experiment on the motorcycle parts - doing the two lower fork tubes. I'm quite pleased with how they came out. The baking kills the wet look of the new paint but that doesn't bother me at all and, as far as I can see, it is completely dry and hard.

 

 

I do have a couple of parts that won't fit in the toaster oven...I'll have to think about how to do those.

Edited July 26, 2021 by JV Puleo (see edit history)

[mikewest]

2 hours ago, JV Puleo said:

I didn't get much done today. I don't have many local friends but just about all of them chose today to stop by and visit - which isn't a problem since I'm not doing this for a living...actually, when I had my garage I didn't have a telephone there (this was long before cell phones) - my thinking was that people were always welcome to stop in but they'd have to make the effort. A phone would have been a constant distraction. In any case, I did get to drop the gear into the rear axle housing to see how it fit. It fit just about perfectly - better than it did with before I replaced the bearings - another clue to the possibility that the thrust bearings that were in it were not the correct ones.

 

 

 

It spins effortlessly and there is plenty of room for adjustment and for the seals. I will not have to modify the thrust bearing...

I didn't slit the aluminum sleeves because some new ideas came to me. One of the advantages to running gear oil in the rear end is that I can eliminate the big grease cups that were mounted on the caps. If the oil level is nearly half way up the gear, it will be above the lower end of the rollers. This also eliminates the need to put a "try cock" in the side to check the level. It's easy enough to take the cover off - although I don't have the correct cover and that is another piece I either have to find or make. The one I have fits properly, but the bolt holes don't come near lining up with the holes in the housing.

 

In the midst of all this I also went on with my "baked enamel" experiment on the motorcycle parts - doing the two lower fork tubes. I'm quite pleased with how they came out. The baking kills the wet look of the new paint but that doesn't bother me at all and, as far as I can see, it is completely dry and hard.

 

 

I do have a couple of parts that won't fit in the toaster oven...I'll have to think about how to do those.

Joe a heat lamp will do the same thing he oven does.

 

 

[JV Puleo]

Good Idea! I'll get on it.

[JV Puleo]

I've been pondering the rear axle bearings...as you can see, there is a boss in the center of the cap that held a grease cup. I don't need the grease cups now but I would like to use the boss for something that will make it look like it was intended. The aluminum sleeve has to be split and I think that the clamping pressure when its bolted down will be enough but if I add another clamp, using the boss and bearing directly on the bearing races, I can't see how that would do anything but help. After thinking about it quite a bit, I have a plan but I need a milling cutter that is 3-1/4" in diameter to make the necessary part...so until I find that I'm stopped on this.

 

 

I went on and bored and threaded the gauge I started yesterday...

 

 

But, half way through I realized I already had a gauge and fixture for 1-3/8 -16 so while I finished the threading, I put the new gauge aside until later...

In order not to be left without anything to do, I started on the caps that will go on the ends of the new drag link. I have to make a drag link for several reasons. The original is hammered and the orientation of the connections will not work with the new Pittman arm I made. I started by cutting off 2 pieces of 1-3/4 brass bar.

 

 

Then drilled, bored and threaded...

 

 

These big taps are a bear to use in the lathe so after I've started the thread I move it over to a chuck bolted down to the mill where I can use a bit tap wrence.

 

 

Even this was a trial so I've made a note to bore the next one about .005 larger...

 

Edited July 27, 2021 by JV Puleo (see edit history)

[JV Puleo]

I fight a constant battle trying not to make things too complicated but sometimes I just can't do it. These caps for the ends of the drag link are a good example. I've designed them so that the link can be greased via a fitting in the ends. In order to get what I want, each cap consists of 3 parts. You've seen all this before but in this case I plan to add a hex on the end of the cap so it can be tightened with a wrench. After I made the second "body" I started on the pieces that will make the ends. I worked through my pile of bits and found 1 piece of brass 1-3/8" in diameter - the size I need. to make the second one, I'm turning down the unused brass boss from the rear axle from my "mistakes" box.

 

Facing off the no longer needed concave portion...

 

 

And drilling an reaming to 7/16", the hole size for a 1/4 NPT tap.

 

Here's the roughed out 6 pieces.

 

 

I cut 2 pieces of 1-1/2 hex stock about .400 thick...

 

 

And bored one out and threaded it. I wasn't sure this would work but, thankfully, it did.

 

 

This is what it should look like - with the yet to be finished threaded portion filling the center.

 

Edited July 28, 2021 by JV Puleo (see edit history)

[JV Puleo]

Things went smoothly today - a rare enough occurrence to justify a comment. I made the second hex nut and then trimmed both of the bodies to the same size.

 

 

And then knurled them. I usually knurl at the end but in this case I'm worried that I'd hit the points of the hex. There is very little clearance there.

 

 

Then I turned the larger of the two pieces that will form the end of the caps...

 

 

And threaded them.

 

 

The thread is purposely a little loose because the idea is to solder everything together and I'm thinking a little clearance will allow the solder to flow through both pieces.

 

 

This all went so sell that I soldered one...it's down stairs cooling off as I type this. I'll do the other one tomorrow and then trim and finish the ends.

 

[JV Puleo]

I can't do those neat drawings that Terry and Gary make so I make mine in the graphic design program I use for designing books. This is my drawing of the drag link ends. It probably wouldn't do for someone else to make them but it's close enough so I can understand it and it allows me to work out the measurements.

 

[JV Puleo]

Today I finished off the drag link caps - or at leas as far as I can go for the moment. Aster I'd soldered the 2nd one, I faced the ends off and put a chamfer on the hex portion.

 

 

I drilled these tor 1/4 NPT threads. My idea is to put a grease cup on each end and to put a Zerk fitting inside the cup for much more positive greasing. But, I don't have the grease cups - or at least I'd prefer to use brass ones and all I have are steel. So, I decided to wait on this until I actually have the cups in hand in case I need to make some further modification.

 

 

Then I went to work on the ends of the drag link...and, of course, changed my design a little. I don't really need the huge amount of adjustment I designed into them so I shortened them 1" and cut this piece of 1-3/8 bar. I'd thought to use DOM tubing but couldn't find any with the dimensions I wanted.

 

 

The problem here is that one is a little over 5" long and the other abut 6-1/2" long. The quill on the lathe only extends a hair over 5" so to drill these through I have to do it from both ends. In a collet that isn't a problem but they are too big for the biggest collet. The trick is to be very careful about indicating it...drill about half way, flip it around and indicate it again and drill. This is the first end, drilled 3-1/2" deep

 

 

And the other end, drilled to meet the hole. The holes are 63/64 so next I will ream them .001 oversize...

 

 

I'll ream them in a single pass by moving the tail stock forward...

[JV Puleo]

I reamed the hole to 1" + .001. Because of it's length, I went as far I could then pulled the reamer back and slid the whole tail stock forward and finished the hole.

 

 

Then without removing it from the chuck, I started the thread on this end. It's 1-1/16 - 16. One of the member here gave me a really good formula for calculating a tap hole so I sued it backwards to calculate what thread I could put in a 1" hole. It worked a charm - although I was surprised to learn there was such a thing as 1-1/16 - 16. It does make sense though, since it's perfect for a 1" hole. When the thread was duly started I moved it over to the chuck on the mill since that allows me to use a big tap wrench.

 

 

The two drag link ends...next I'll make some threaded sleeves to go in the threaded part.

 

 

 

Edited July 31, 2021 by JV Puleo (see edit history)

[JV Puleo]

Something tells me I'm getting a bit carried away on the drag link...I keep thinking of new additions. To reduce the size of the hole on one end to 7/8" - the size of the tubing. I'm making more threaded inserts. These are 1-1/6 OD, threaded 1-1/16-16.

 

 

The internal thread is 7/8-18 - the old SAE spark plug thread, chosen because I left & right hand taps. The tap hole is .8195 but I was able to find an .820 end mill to finish the hole.

 

 

 

Then the piece goes on an expanding mandrel to thread the OD...

 

 

The thread is on the loose side since this is a very deep hole and it's critical that, once I put Locktite on the threads, it goes to the bottom.

 

 

Which it did...the springs also came in while I was doing this.

 

 

Then the ends were faced off so the liner would be flush...

 

 

Next I was going to make the spring blocks but discovered I don't have the 1" drill rod I expected to use. I'll have to order that tonight and, in the meantime go on with a couple of other small parts.

 

 

 

[JV Puleo]

The ends, with their ball & socket joint, will thread onto the drag link...one a LH thread and the other a RH thread so it can be finely adjusted. Because of this, I need two lock nuts to hold the ends secure after they are adjusted. I'm making them out of brass - largely because I had a piece that, cut in half, was just right and is likely too short for much else.

 

 

 

It was drilled and reamed to 3/4" so that it would fit on an expanding mandrel.

 

 

Then about 2/3 of it was turned down to 1-1/16"...

 

 

And the part with the reduced OD counterbored to 7/8". The idea is that this will slip over the drag link and hide the threads.

 

 

Then I turned it around and bored the hole for the tap.

 

 

And finished by threading them.

 

 

These are now done...

 

 

Next I'll make two washers to slip into the drag link ends and provide a firm base for the springs as well as the blocks that clamp onto the ball.

Edited August 4, 2021 by JV Puleo (see edit history)

[JV Puleo]

Pressing on with the drag link...I made two washers. These will seat against the threaded brass sleeve and support the springs that are fitted to the ends. Surface grinding them was not  really needed but I didn't have anything the right thickness so resorted to using a piece of scrap that was too thick.

 

 

 

 

 

Next, I cut 4 1" pieces of 1" drill rod...

 

 

and faced the ends of so they would be identical.

 

 

 

And turned the ends...3 are 9/16" and one is 1/2"

 

 

Two of them get a 1/8" hole in the center.

 

 

I put the round indentation in them with a 1" round router bit.

 

 

 

And then I forgot to take a few pictures...so, these are nearly done but they don't slide easily in the drag link ends so tomorrow I'll address that issue.

Edited August 6, 2021 by JV Puleo (see edit history)

[JV Puleo]

The 4 "blocks" that old the ball that I forgot to photograph yesterday.

 

 

I decided to polish the concave surface since the less friction there is, the less they will wear. These eventually will need to be hardened. I used sandpaper and one of the extra balls I drilled and threaded.

 

 

The first polished block is on the left...

 

 

I then assembled the ends using two of the extra balls I bought. Both tubes need to be shortened about 1/8"

 

 

That was easily done... the spring sticks out further on the long tube because the cap will be compressing 2 springs where on the short tube there is only one. They are very stiff springs so I'm going for a minimum of compression. I chose them by the wire size...as close to the original spring as I could get.

 

 

 I then set it up to thread the ends but it's near the end of the day and I'd prefer to do a fussy threading job when I'm a little more alert.

 

Edited August 7, 2021 by JV Puleo (see edit history)

[edinmass]

I sure wish Joe and his shop were next door to me...........fine work. 👍👍

[Luv2Wrench]

Spectacular job!  Every time I see you using collet in your lathe I get sad knowing that my spindle nose is bent.  Last week I found a place here in town that should be able to fix it, I don't know what the cost will be.  I'm taking it over in a week or so for an estimate.   They normally work on CNC spindles but the guy is an old iron addict himself so he said he'd be happy to take the job on.   I also found a 4-jaw (7.5" South Bend chuck made by Skinner) while old tool hunting over the weekend.  Scored a 24x18 granite surface plate on that same hunt.  I'll need to make a back plate for the chuck but shouldn't be too much of an issue once I get the spindle true.  I'm pretty darn excited.

[Gary_Ash]

Joe, I note your preference for the 4-jaw chuck over a 3-jaw one, even on round things.  Why is that?

[JV Puleo]

It is far more accurate...you can indicate a piece to .0005 (or less...a ground finish can be 0) in a 4-jaw. It's rare to find a 3-jaw that is any more accurate than .003 - and that is exceptional. Most are nowhere near that good, especially if they are worn. If I have to take the piece out and put it back - as I have with these drag link ends - using the 3-jaw would be a huge pain in the neck because every operation would have to be done to the single piece without taking it out. I'm not even sure it's possible.

 

I only use the 3-jaw for hex stock...and, by putting it in a 4-jaw I can indicate the work piece by moving the whole chuck. As long as the dimensions are the same, you can then switch pieces in the 3-jaw with some confidence. When I do hex stock, I indicate a round piece close to the dimension across the flats and then replace it with the hex. Buck makes a "Tru-Adjust" 3-jaw - that allows you to finely tune it for each piece - in fact, I'm using one but don't have a backing plate to fit it that works with my lathe. There is big piece of durabar on the floor waiting for me to make one and it has been there for a good 5 years.

 

I've a friend - far more experienced in this than I am - who bought new 3 and 4 jaw chucks about 30 years ago. He still hasn't bothered to make a backing plate for the 3-jaw having so little use for it. He's the one who first showed me the chuck-in-a-chuck trick.

Edited August 9, 2021 by JV Puleo (see edit history)

[JV Puleo]

11 hours ago, Luv2Wrench said:

Spectacular job!  Every time I see you using collet in your lathe I get sad knowing that my spindle nose is bent.  Last week I found a place here in town that should be able to fix it, I don't know what the cost will be.  I'm taking it over in a week or so for an estimate.   They normally work on CNC spindles but the guy is an old iron addict himself so he said he'd be happy to take the job on.

 

That's really good news. I'd say that even if it's expensive it will be well worth doing. One thing to remember - and this may work in to your benefit. I don't know what Hendey used for a spindle taper. It may have been proprietary. You should go for MT 5 if there is enough metal. If I remember correctly, there is a company that makes collet adapters in all the standard tapers. I'd go for 5C if only because they are so common and cheap but I'm guessing the sindle guy will know this stuff better than I do.

[Luv2Wrench]

13 hours ago, JV Puleo said:

 

That's really good news. I'd say that even if it's expensive it will be well worth doing. One thing to remember - and this may work in to your benefit. I don't know what Hendey used for a spindle taper. It may have been proprietary. You should go for MT 5 if there is enough metal. If I remember correctly, there is a company that makes collet adapters in all the standard tapers. I'd go for 5C if only because they are so common and cheap but I'm guessing the sindle guy will know this stuff better than I do.

Yeah, I'm probably going to pay whatever it is as it is a good lathe otherwise.   It is MT5 and I do have the collet adapter, a reasonable set of collets and a drawbar.   Once it is straight I should be good to go.