What is the touring car I'm seated in, in this old photo?

[lump]

Hello, group. I LOVE this forum, and all the expert knowledge to be found herein. 

 

Anyway, I've been in the antique car world literally for all my life. Attached is a photo of me in about 1960, seated behind the steering wheel of an old touring car. My family had a Hupmobile sedan at the time, so I know it's not one of our family's cars. Years ago I started writing captions on the backs of old family photos, since so many of my relatives were killed in a tragic car accident. I was afraid of losing all connection to my past. Anyway, I labeled this photo as me being behind the wheel of an HCS touring car, since family friend Joe Antrim had one, which was similar to this car in this photo. But thinking back, I realize that as a child in the Southern Ohio Chapter of the AACA, I was privileged to sit behind the wheel of many, many cool cars when I was little. I loved it. 

 

So, my wise friends...is this the red and black HCS touring car, which I remember Joe Antrim owning...or something else, maybe? 

[1937hd45]

I think so, but most had step plates and no running boards around 1922-23. Bob

[keiser31]

Definitely an HCS.

[motoringicons]

Yes, it is an HCS. The later, six cylinder cars had full running boards and outside door handles. The earlier, four cylinder models had step plates and no outside door handles. Great photo.

[lump]

Thanks so much, guys. Mystery solved.

 

Joe owned this car for decades. Later in life (1980's, sometime) as a young adult I did indeed drive this car, plus Joe's Kissel touring. There were a couple of car shows where Joe brought more than one car, and enlisted me and a another friend to help shuttle them there and back again. By then Joe had a beautiful Royal Tourist touring, and preferred driving it. I miss old Joe. 

[lump]

Interesting side note: That's my parents' 55 Chevy 4 door sedan in the background. It's the first car they owned which I remember riding in. They had a 33 Plymouth coupe as their daily driver before that, but I cannot recall it. 

[zipdang]

HCS? Anyone care to add just a brief note on this make?

[motoringicons]

H.C.S. was the automobile built by Harry C. Stutz after he left the Stutz  company. The cars were built in Indianapolis from 1920-1925. They were considered one of the more "sporty" cars during the early 1920s-especially the four cylinder models called Series II, III, and IV. Most of the cars built were tourings but there were a few roadsters and even a couple of enclosed cars built. These were high quality cars that were lightweight and relatively fast by early 1920s standards. Not sure how many of them were made. Probably 20-40 of them exists today.

 

I owned a four cylinder H.C.S.  touring car in my personal collection for a few years. It was a great car that easily passed most cars on the 2001 AACA Glidden Tour in Mackinac City, Michigan. It flew over the Mackinac  Bridge like it was a bird!!  It is the one pictured in the Stutz book "The Splendid Stutz." Sold it to buy another car in 2003 which I still own, but I really miss it. You can't keep everything!!!

Edited May 19, 2017 by motoringicons (see edit history)

[zipdang]

Thank you!

 

[ron hausmann]

All,

Never met Joe Anhtrim, but there is a picture of he and his 1921 Kissel Model 6-45 Sport Tourster in the Wisconsin Automotive Museum. There is only one such Kissel of that Sport Model that exists, and I bought it last year. It is the same car Joe Antrim originally owned and is very low mileage (14,000) and original paint and engine.

It drives very well and is VERY similar to the Stutz's and HCS's of that era.

Ron Hausmann  P.E.

[lump]

I have special reasons to love your Kissel, Ron, as we discussed before. LOL. 

[John_Mereness]

Spotted this by accident"  Yes, that is the HCS - it was maroon-ish red and Black - also it was a 6 cyl which is very rare as few survive.  The car seems to be very well "off the map" these days - which is a shame as it was a really good runner.

[Mark Wetherbee]

There were two HCS touring sat The Owls Head Transportation Museum for some time, one restored and one very clean original where they asked “restoration or preservation” using them as perfect examples. I wonder if one of them is the same car...

[John_S_in_Penna]

This 1920 HCS was for sale in California

several years ago--maybe around 2010.

I don't recall for certain, but I think it was 

listed on our AACA forum:

 

 

[lump]

Joe Antrim's HCS had black wall tires and a black top. But of course, those things could have been changed. 

 

[8E45E]

On ‎5‎/‎18‎/‎2017 at 4:33 PM, motoringicons said:

H.C.S. was the automobile built by Harry C. Stutz after he left the Stutz  company. The cars were built in Indianapolis from 1920-1925. They were considered one of the more "sporty" cars during the early 1920s-especially the four cylinder models called Series II, III, and IV. Most of the cars built were tourings but there were a few roadsters and even a couple of enclosed cars built. These were high quality cars that were lightweight and relatively fast by early 1920s standards. Not sure how many of them were made. Probably 20-40 of them exists today.

 

I owned a four cylinder H.C.S.  touring car in my personal collection for a few years. It was a great car that easily passed most cars on the 2001 AACA Glidden Tour in Mackinac City, Michigan. It flew over the Mackinac  Bridge like it was a bird!!  It is the one pictured in the Stutz book "The Splendid Stutz." Sold it to buy another car in 2003 which I still own, but I really miss it. You can't keep everything!!!

There are at least six individuals with two different marques of cars named after them: Ransom E. Olds, Edsel Ford, Henry J. Kaiser, Walter Flanders, William Morris, and Harry C. Stutz.

 

Craig

Edited February 15, 2019 by 8E45E (see edit history)

[nzcarnerd]

6 hours ago, 8E45E said:

There are at least six individuals with two different marques of cars named after them: Ransom E. Olds, Edsel Ford, Henry J. Kaiser, Walter Flanders, William Morris, and Harry C. Stutz.

 

Craig

 

Robert C Hupp had three - Hupmobile, RCH and Hupp-Yeats.

[John_Mereness]

I think the Antrim HCS was a 1924.  And, it was the rare and elusive 6 cylinder. Probably the last time I saw it on the road was 1985 or so.  Usually they drove the Kissel (which really was a fantastic road car).  I saw the note about above about the Kissel having original paint - nope, Joe's father sought out really fabulous condition cars and then had them restored in the 50's/60's (the restoration photos have just became separated from the cars over time) and was ahead of his time in actually getting quality work done and the Stutz was very much the same way (the only car really unrestored was the XK120 Jaguar).  The cars were painted pretty bright colors and were often feature in the display windows at Gem City Ice Cream (Joe's parent's company and maybe even his grandparents).   There was a rebodied turtle-back Bentley in maybe a 4.5 Litre, the Kissel,  the HCS, a brass era Royal Tourist (Mike Hines and Frank Crawford rebuilt much of the mechanics on it), a maroon late teens or very early Pierce Arrow Touring (dismal failure on the road anytime they drove it), a 1931 or 32 Plymouth Roadster, a grey XK120 Jaguar, an early 50's dodge, and probably one or two other things).  My guess is that the HCS was sold to one of their friends outside of the Southern Ohio area and is tucked into the back of a garage.   

Edited February 16, 2019 by John_Mereness (see edit history)

[Layden B]

8E45E, nzcarnerd,

How about the early manufacturer named Pope? Probably tops the list with Pope-Hartford, Pope-Toledo, Pope-Tribune, Pope-Waverly and maybe more.

Edited February 16, 2019 by Layden B (see edit history)

[nzcarnerd]

3 hours ago, Layden B said:

8E45E, nzcarnerd,

How about the early manufacturer named Pope? Probably tops the list with Pope-Hartford, Pope-Toledo, Pope-Tribune, Pope-Waverly and maybe more.

 

Yes, I knew there would be others. Hupp was one that came to mind at that moment.

[lump]

On 2/16/2019 at 11:59 AM, John_Mereness said:

I think the Antrim HCS was a 1924.  And, it was the rare and elusive 6 cylinder. Probably the last time I saw it on the road was 1985 or so.  Usually they drove the Kissel (which really was a fantastic road car).  I saw the note about above about the Kissel having original paint - nope, Joe's father sought out really fabulous condition cars and then had them restored in the 50's/60's (the restoration photos have just became separated from the cars over time) and was ahead of his time in actually getting quality work done and the Stutz was very much the same way (the only car really unrestored was the XK120 Jaguar).  The cars were painted pretty bright colors and were often feature in the display windows at Gem City Ice Cream (Joe's parent's company and maybe even his grandparents).   There was a rebodied turtle-back Bentley in maybe a 4.5 Litre, the Kissel,  the HCS, a brass era Royal Tourist (Mike Hines and Frank Crawford rebuilt much of the mechanics on it), a maroon late teens or very early Pierce Arrow Touring (dismal failure on the road anytime they drove it), a 1931 or 32 Plymouth Roadster, a grey XK120 Jaguar, an early 50's dodge, and probably one or two other things).  My guess is that the HCS was sold to one of their friends outside of the Southern Ohio area and is tucked into the back of a garage.   

Don't forget Joe's twin-six Packard touring.

 

I drove the HCS and the Kissel (and rode in the Kissel on our wedding day, in 1974). I asked Joe to let me drive the Bentley, and he agreed. But we kept waiting for a time when the garage would be opened up enough to easily get it out, when I might happen to be present. It just never happened. 

 

I think that Joe bought the Pierce from Benny Goldflies, by the way. He also bought the 1921 Grant Six roadster from my parents, and decades later sold it back to me. None of us ever got it restored, but it was eventually restored by a gentleman (now deceased) in Michigan. As far as my parents' research could determine, it was the only remaining 1921 Grant Six car in the world. 

 

[John_Mereness]

Correct:  I saw the Packard upstairs in the Packard Museum once - it had a modified radiator on it - never saw it ever run.  It was a 2 door 4 passenger touring - a "Cloverleaf." 

 

As a sidenote:  I also saw a Grant upstairs at the Packard Museum once - I want to say it was white with red wheels or something like that - pretty done car, but I do not think finished or roadworthy (may have been about the same time as seeing the Packard). 

 

I only saw the Bentley on the road a few times - they took it to some local shows, though I never saw it on an AACA tour (my guess it was not dependable).

 

Benny Goldflies had some interesting cars too - last I was aware of was a black w/maroon interior Silver Wraith RR.