Coker Bias Ply Look Radials - OK for judging?

[1957buickjim]

Hi everyone, 

 

I am interested in getting new tires for my 57 Buick. Heard great things about the ride on radials as compared to bias ply, but radials don't look the same. The Coker bias ply look radials look like they might be the ticket, but would like to get some feedback before I plunk down $1K for new tires. Anybody try these and also have their car judged with them? Thanks for your feedback.

 

 

[JohnD1956]

I might be doing this too but you can call John Steed, the chief judge (ph# is in the Bugle) for the call on judging. I imagine you will get a deduction for the radials if this is for the 57

[91vert]

OK, I am no expert but have judged a bit.

I may stand to be corrected but if the tires in question are sized in the metric format , ie  225/75R/15 you will be dinged.

I believe and could be corrected but I think 1 point each for wrong size and 1 point each for radial, total 8 points.

Enough to put you out of Senior Gold, but not enough to put you out of Senior Preservation if you have Senior Gold already.

Probably what you didn't want to hear but better here that after the show.

 

Cal.

[Matt Harwood]

Some clubs have eliminated the radial tire deduction (CCCA) and I personally disagree with that decision, which they wrongly state is for safety reasons. If the right tires are available and you want the big trophies, put the right tires on the car. If you like to drive, radials are often superior. But there's only one "correct" when it comes to judging.

 

In any case, I think it comes down to whether the judges notice that they're radials. I have radials on my 1941 Cadillac and they are quite convincing-looking (those are 760R15s in the photos below). If I were judging the car, I wouldn't immediately notice they were radials, but if I did notice, I would take the deduction. They are not as blatantly wrong as the short, fat radials that are frequently used and look correct at a glance, but they're still not the right tires for your car. No matter how you slice it, they're the wrong tires for anything before the late 60s.

 

I think most judges would be the same way. The illusion is fairly convincing but if the judge notices that they are radials, you can probably expect a deduction. Incorrect is incorrect, regardless of how "right" they look.

 

 

 

Here's a better photo of another 60S with the same tires:

 

[Matt Harwood]

PS: If you go with radials, call Diamondback instead of Coker. You'll be much happier with the quality and the price is the same. I only bought the Cokers for the '41 Cadillac because Diamondback couldn't get the tires I wanted.

[1957buickjim]

Thanks guys!

 

So it goes to reason for show, stick with Bias Ply..for driving and ride quality..go with radials. Just trying to get a handle on it.

 

Cal, - I do have a Senior Gold on the vehicle, so the deductions wouldn't be enough to affect Senior Preservation, I don't think. But it is good food for thought.

 

Matt,  - Is the price at $280 ea? what about shipping? Please advise. Thanks a ton!

 

Jim

[NTX5467]

The "1 point for incorrect size" and "1 point for radial" . . . I haven't read the judging manual but it seems that ANY radial will be "the incorrect size" due to the size nomenclature of the tire.  But p-matric bias ply tires have existed in the past, as have the middle-1960s sizes (which replaced the 1950s sizes, which would be and have been "incorrect size" too.  I think it would be really neat if a car was good enough to score "Gold" with the bias ply-look radials as that would prove that it was good enough to really earn that level of award.

 

On the other hand, if you want to play by the BCA rules, then you'll need the correct repro tires for show.  Be that as it may.

 

I don't have a car in that race, so just some thoughts . . .

 

NTX5467

[RivNut]

So, there's no way for a 1965 Riviera not to take a hit on tires under the BCAs judging criteria.  NO ONE reproduces a 8.45 x 15 tires.  What's a person to do?  It's a no win situation (unless you're willing to drive on 50+ years old tires.)  

[NTX5467]

I'm thinking the 8.45x15s were superceded to 8.55x15 a year or so later?  Later to H78x15.  There are some gaps in repro tire coverage, first in 14" and now in 15", by observation.  And that doesn't account for any special white sidewall treatments!  Just got to shop around as best you can.

 

NTX5467

[JohnD1956]

1 hour ago, RivNut said:

So, there's no way for a 1965 Riviera not to take a hit on tires under the BCAs judging criteria.  NO ONE reproduces a 8.45 x 15 tires.  What's a person to do?  It's a no win situation (unless you're willing to drive on 50+ years old tires.)  

 

Everyone realizes that there has been mass consolidation in the auto parts business.  If a part is not made, and if it is a consumable item, chances are every self respecting judging team would NOT ding a car for using a replacement part.  Or if it did ding a car the deduction would be minimal.  Look at the online judging manual for details on consumables.

[old-tank]

Don't you dare put the  Coker bias ply look radials on a 57...the white wall size is way to big! 

[Arland]

The topic seems to center on appearance, judging deductions, and the difference in ride quality of radial vs. bias ply.

Regarding Coker radial tires:

If you want to use them for a show car, they will probably suffice.

If you drive your car a lot like I do, never put a set of Coker tires on it. Every Coker radial that has been on one of my driven cars has either had the tread separate or the sidewalls crack. Diamondback has proven to be an excellent radial for old cars and new cars alike so that is what I use. Just my .02.....................

[NTX5467]

Although Coker and Diamondback serve some of the same customers, there are differences.  Coker is a manufacturer, from what I've seen, and Diamondback is a "modifier" of tires made by a normal tire company?  To me, that is a significant difference and might explain some of the longevity issues.

 

Coker used to buy "NOS" tires discontinued by BFG, for example, and re-sell them until they were sold out.  In more recent times, they've purchased the molds and sales rights to many tires, from the original manufacturers.  What they sell has expanded greatly over the past 40+ years, by observation.

 

NTX5467

[TxBuicks]

There have been many discussions on this forum about redials vs bias ply.  Personally, I think that if a car (and wheels) is designed for bias ply tires, then that's what I use.  I try to find the right size, whether it be metric or not, as long as they are close to the original size.  You may get a softer feel with radials, but then that takes away from the driving experience that I get when I drive a car that was designed before radials.  It is like putting a modern radio and speakers in an older car.  Sure, you will probably enjoy the radio more than the original AM, but you lose the nostalgia feeling.  When I drive an older car, I want to experience what it was like to drive it as it was designed, and tires are part of the experience.

 

As far as judging, the mandatory deduction for incorrect tire type and/or size will eliminate the car from receiving a Senior Award, assuming it had enough points otherwise.  I've known some owners to put the correct bias ply tires on for judging, then switch to radials for driving.  Expensive, but it has been done.

[superbuick]

For judging the correct tire needs to be on it. The judging manual says no deduction for wrong tire size- IF it is not manufactured and the size on the car is the next closest size. I was able to get a Gold senior with my 66 GS skylark with radials. The rest of the car had no flaws. I was willing to take a few points loss for a nicer, safer driving car.

 

I have removed many Coker sets of tires that  failed early, had vibration and balance problems. I have removed many sets that were failed before there time  ( 7 and counting) and one set from a customers 41 Packard that failed, blew apart at 60 and banged up the rear fender real good, his tires were 2 years old. The 13 sets of Diamond Back tires we have installed all have performed well, , when I balance them they take very little weight. And a bonus is I can order the correct white wall width sow it looks correct for the year. I have 40 years of experience of Auto  shop owner and we work on a lot of vintage cars. These are facts about tire issues, not just my opinion.

 

I like to drive and tour with my car, I have a few on Bias , but most on Radial. I like to look look at the sites, put my arm around my sweetheart when I drive. Cant do that with Bias ply tires. The roads in Washington are always being patched and modified, the bias tires will chase every seam in the road. When I have a friend drive one my cars with bias on the freeway, they are a little white in the face when after the drive. They think the car is being thrown into the car or truck next to them.

 

As much as nice looking wide whitewalls cost, I go the the ones that will last much longer and stay true.

 Steve Fisher

[Arland]

Steve,

 

Couldn't agree more about bias tires and Washington freeways................................

 

Arland

[Beemon]

22 hours ago, Arland said:

Steve,

 

Couldn't agree more about bias tires and Washington freeways................................

 

Arland

 

A bit off topic, but between Tacoma and Seattle is by far some of the worst highway driving I've done in my Buick, with the worst being from HWY18 to I90 to Colfax.

[Ted "Wildcat65" Nagel]

What would you think of these Royalton bias ply 1" WW for a Riv?

What is the correct width for the WW?  

 

https://www.lucasclassictires.com/H78-15-Royalton-1-WW-H78151.htm

[RivNut]

2 hours ago, Ted "Wildcat65" Nagel said:

What would you think of these Royalton bias ply 1" WW for a Riv?

What is the correct width for the WW?  

 

https://www.lucasclassictires.com/H78-15-Royalton-1-WW-H78151.htm

 

What year Riviera?

[Ted "Wildcat65" Nagel]

65...I need to read the judges manual myself but I thought the closest size to what would have been stock - or  something like that -would be no deduction.

So what size WW stripe on the 65?

[RivNut]

1 hour ago, Ted "Wildcat65" Nagel said:

65...I need to read the judges manual myself but I thought the closest size to what would have been stock - or  something like that -would be no deduction.

So what size WW stripe on the 65?

The wide side wall on a 65 Riviera would have been a three stripe affair.  A narrow one in between two narrower ones.  Here's a picture of an original 8.45 x 15 Goodyear.  I find it strange that Coker nor any one else reproduces this size.  It was the correct size for the Thunderbird.  What are the T-bird guys doing?

 

PS, wrong wheel for 65 though. 

[Pete Phillips]

On ‎5‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 8:58 PM, RivNut said:

So, there's no way for a 1965 Riviera not to take a hit on tires under the BCAs judging criteria.  NO ONE reproduces a 8.45 x 15 tires.  What's a person to do?  It's a no win situation (unless you're willing to drive on 50+ years old tires.)   

If the owner has made an effort to get the correct size, and the tires on the car are close to original size (i.e., not metric; not too wide; not too narrow), I don't count off. That's just me talking. Can't always control what other judges will do.

Pete Phillips, BCA #7338

[Matt Harwood]

Diamondback will make you a three-stripe whitewall like that. It won't be exactly the right size, but they do a lot of specialty whitewalls that were unique to a certain type of car. They made these, which were unique to the late Lincoln Mark V:

 

[RivNut]

11 hours ago, RivNut said:

The wide side wall on a 65 Riviera would have been a three stripe affair.  A narrow one in between two narrower ones.  Here's a picture of an original 8.45 x 15 Goodyear.  I find it strange that Coker nor any one else reproduces this size.  It was the correct size for the Thunderbird.  What are the T-bird guys doing?

 

PS, wrong wheel for 65 though. 

Here's a picture of the triple stripe tire that Gord Wolfgang had Diamond Back make for his 65 Riviera. This picture was on a similar thread on the ROA forum.

[superbuick]

I think the triple stripe tire made by Diamond back is stunning,   As far as jugging, they have reduced the deduction for radial's to one point a tire. Half of what is was.

I would by wary of the Lucas white walls. The last set of Lucas tires I bought wont stay white. They turn brown of a couple of months. .

[old-tank]

On 5/30/2018 at 10:43 AM, Ted "Wildcat65" Nagel said:

What would you think of these Royalton bias ply 1" WW for a Riv?

What is the correct width for the WW?  

 

https://www.lucasclassictires.com/H78-15-Royalton-1-WW-H78151.htm

 

The price is tempting, but stay away from those flat top alpha-numeric tires.  The website has no information on construction (probably 4 ply or 4 ply rated).  When those tire were contemporary they were bias-belted and were pretty good tires for the time.  The stuff they sell now will have a hard ride and horrible directional stability.  The people you see riding on those tires will appear to have a big smile, bu that is the way they look while gritting their teeth.  Better to pay extra if the original size bias is available or best to go with Diamondbacks.