KYB shocks for a 63-65

[KongaMan]

I know this topic has been discussed before, but I'm trying to find some middle ground between Monroes and Bilsteins.  I understand that there are KYB shocks for the first-generation cars: KG4550 for the front, and KG54105 (with the 107 adapter kit) for the rear.  From what I can gather, the mounting tabs on the front shocks are a little shorter than the originals (they end about halfway across the mounting holes) and the rear shock is ~1" longer than the Monroes. 

 

Does anyone have any experience with these KYB shocks?  If so, did you encounter any installation or performance issues?

Edited May 20, 2017 by KongaMan
KYB, not KGB ;P (see edit history)

[Black River]

I'm running them.  The fronts are shorter on the mounting holes.  I just welded a plate to them and drilled a hole in the proper spot.  They work great, but my car is lowered over 3".  I've always had good luck with their stuff, which is why I went with them again.

 

Lucas

[telriv]

I've been using them for yrs. It's a GOOD middle of the ground as far as cost. They last longer than any of the others & you DON'T experience that "Float-a-Matic" feeling after only about a yr. except of course for Bilsteins.  All these numbers are the ones I provided MANY yrs. ago.

 

 

Tom T.

[bodayguy]

I don't see Bilstein as having any shocks for us, according to their online catalog. I have been planning on getting new shocks too but wasn't sure what to get. My main concern is fit, I don't want the mechanic to bi%#$ about installation.

My thought had been just to go to Les Schwab, believe or not, and see what they might do. Any suggestions??

Edited May 10, 2017 by bodayguy (see edit history)

[KongaMan]

IIRC, Bilstein (like KYB) has off-the-books shocks for the Riviera.  That is, I think you need to go through the specs to find a shock that fits the application; they don't list it as such (e.g. the KYB rears are listed for a Toyota truck or something).

 

According to my notes, the Bilsteins part #s are 55-R101 (F) and 55-R410 (R).  My understanding is that the 55-R410 supercedes the 55-R216 that folks formerly referenced as a suitable rear shock.  I've also seen reference to a 55-R285.  When I looked into this a few months ago, the cheapest place I found for the Bilsteins was Classic Performance (www.classicperform.com; (714) 522-2000): 55-R101: $89; 55-R285: $87; 55R-410: $89.

 

Specs from my notes (you'll double-check these if you know what's good for you ):

- KYB KG4550: 9.25"-13.54"

- Monroe 5759: 9.375"-14.875"

 

- Bilstein 55-R410: 14.8"-25.3"

- KYB KG54105: 15.67"-25.31"

- Monroe 5760: 14.635"-24.875"

 

Edited May 10, 2017 by KongaMan (see edit history)

[KongaMan]

On 5/8/2017 at 5:49 PM, telriv said:

I've been using them for yrs. It's a GOOD middle of the ground as far as cost. They last longer than any of the others & you DON'T experience that "Float-a-Matic" feeling after only about a yr. except of course for Bilsteins.  All these numbers are the ones I provided MANY yrs. ago.

 

I dunno who's responsible for originally finding those numbers, but whoever it was: Well done!

 

I've used KYB Gas-A-Just shocks in other applications and quite like them.  I don't think they're a magic bullet (they certainly won't disguise soft springs or worn bushings), but my experience is they've got a firmer (but not harsh) ride that takes away some of the swim.

Edited May 10, 2017 by KongaMan (see edit history)

[Black River]

Here's a list of shocks from Summit.  Starting under $20 for fronts and rears, even the KYBs are under $25. https://www.summitracing.com/search/department/chassis-suspension/year/1963/make/buick/model/riviera?N=4294951552%2B4294925615&SortBy=DisplayPrice&SortOrder=Ascending

[KongaMan]

It is the KYB Excel-Gs that are under $25; the Gas-A-Just shocks are a bit more.  You'll also note that Summit doesn't list any KYBs for the rear.

[Black River]

Yessir, but I got mine from them.  I looked them up on the Googles internet machine and just typed that in their search engine.

[bodayguy]

OPGI lists 55-R102 Bilstein for the rears. 55-R101 for the fronts. Yeah, pricey. More than $100 each.

[telriv]

The Bilsteins have been SPECIAL BUILT by a member. They ALSO fit some of the Full Size cars. I installed a set on a '64 Wildcat last year.

 

 

Tom T.

 

 

 

[KongaMan]

The KYB KG4550 (left) and the Monroe 5759 (right) side-by-side.  It's pretty clear that the Monroe has a longer tab.  The KYB tab length is 3.38"; the Monroe is 3.75".  Anyone know the center-to-center distance on the mounting bolts?

 

The KYB is also noticeably firmer.  You can compress the Monroe with gentle pressure; you have to lean on the KYB to get it to move.

 

[Seafoam65]

                 I'm in the car repair business and I bitched to a KYB sales rep that came by trying to sell me his shocks

that I already use his shocks but that the shocks they list for the 65 Riviera fronts do not fit because the lower bracket

is too short. He said that he would get them to take care of the problem, but then later he would not return my phone calls.

I have sent an e-mail to KYB Tech Support in an effort to get them to fix the mounting bracket problem. I'll let you know what they say.

Edited May 19, 2017 by Seafoam65 (see edit history)

[KongaMan]

I generally don't like half-assing things or jury-rigging parts to make them fit, but, man, those Monroes are soft.  I may have to make a shim/extender for the KYBs to capture the whole head of the bolt.

[Seafoam65]

Agreed.....I have Monroes on my car and it really bounces when I hit a bad dip in the pavement. I am determined to get

KYB to fix this problem.

[steelman]

You can press the old slotted base out of the old shock and press it into the new shock. I have had to do this on 55-57 Chevys for years.

[KongaMan]

2 hours ago, steelman said:

You can press the old slotted base out of the old shock and press it into the new shock. I have had to do this on 55-57 Chevys for years.

 

I was looking at doing exactly that.  The problem is that the bases may not be interchangeable between brands.  That is, the base on the donor shocks may not fit the new shocks.

 

If they do fit, though, a ball joint press might do the job nicely.

[dr914]

We sell both kyb and bilstein for the riv. (I advertise them in the review) After long years experience with Porsche, I loved the bilsteins so much that they finally made them to fit our cars.  Kyb is cheap and has unsophisticated valving. Bilstein has very sophisticated valving hence the far superior ride.  However even kyb gives a better ride than monroe!  Bilstein on my Dad's original 64 along with the GS spring set made all of the difference in the world, makes one want to add quick ration steering and four piston calipers and disc brakes!  George Hussey

Edited May 22, 2017 by dr914 (see edit history)

[Seafoam65]

                KYB gave me the finger regarding making the bracket longer on the shocks that otherwise fit. They

are not interested in our  business, so I am done with them regarding buying their shocks period. I buy a lot of their shocks for

my customer's cars but no more!

[Seafoam65]

2 hours ago, dr914 said:

We sell both kyb and bilstein for the riv. (I advertise them in the review) After long years experience with Porsche, I loved the bilsteins so much that they finally made them to fit our cars.  Kyb is cheap and has unsophisticated valving. Bilstein has very sophisticated valving hence the far superior ride.  However even kyb gives a better ride than monroe!  Bilstein on my Dad's original 64 along with the GS spring set made all of the difference in the world, makes one want to add quick ration steering and four piston calipers and disc brakes!  George Hussey

Do these Bilsteins bolt right on the front with no modification necessary?

[KongaMan]

28 minutes ago, Seafoam65 said:

Do these Bilsteins bolt right on the front with no modification necessary?

 

For $400+ a set, Bilstein should send someone out to install them for you.

 

This is the problem: there aren't any great options.  Monroes are too soft, KYBs don't fit without finagling, and the Bilsteins are absurdly priced.

[msdminc]

They are pricey, but they provide a great ride and bolt right in.

 

Rock On

 

gord

[telriv]

As stated they ARE pricey, BUT how can you put a price on QUALITY???  The Bilsteins are FAR SUPERIOR than ANYTHING that's available on the market today. These will be the LAST set you will EVER have to purchase. I just about guarantee it!!!!  George went through A LOT of time & trouble to get us NUTS a QUALITY product. Use HIM, support HIM or else NO ONE will go through the trouble of EVER producing any QUALITY parts for our more cost conses consumers.

I go through this SAME scenario that George & others have gone through to produce a QUALITY product, like Mini Starters, Forged pistons, etc. for our beloved "Nails" only to be told they are too pricey. Continue on this path & I GUARANTEE  Back in the 60's I sent KONI my original shocks. It took almost a year, but after 48+ years they are still on the car & function as they did when new. At the time I bought oil & rebuild kits for them. Haven't had a need to use them. The AMAZING thing about them is that the faster you drive the tighter they get. Don't know how that happens, but at 120MPH the car feels as stable as at 60MPH.

[telriv]

I don't know what happened, but part way through it posted ONLY part of my reply.

Starting with "I GUARANTEE", to finish, NO ONE WILL GO THROUGH THE TIME, TROUBLE OR COST IN $$$$ that it takes to produce these items in a specialty, low volume market. Were not talking Small Block Chevy here will it most likely would sell in the thousands or possibly more. THERE HAS TO BE A ROI!!!!!

Come on people, support him & the others out there willing to take the chance & help them at least recoup some of the expenses associated with taking on such an en devour.

Getting back to the Koni shocks. Way back then, in the late 60's, '68 to be exact, when you could by heavy duty shocks for our cars just about anywhere for between $5.00-$10.00 the Koni's cost me more than $50.00 each, but they are STILL on the car. I know MANY will not have the same car 50+ yrs. later as I, but as stated you can't replace known GOOD QUALITY parts & pieces.

I know I probably have opened a can of worms & I know not everyone can justify the $$$$, but think about how MANY TIMES you will be doing the same thing over & over again & receive the same crappy results expecting better. IT JUST WON'T NORMALLY HAPPEN!!!!

 

 

Just my thoughts on the subject.

 

 

Tom T.

 

 

 

[KongaMan]

To be fair to KYB, they don't list those shocks as fitting a Riviera.  It's just a happy coincidence that they're so close.  If they did change them to fit, they might no longer be suitable for the original application -- which probably sells a lot more than Riv shocks ever would.

 

As for forking out $400 for other shocks...  It's not a choice between quality and junk here; it's a question of value.  Are the Bilsteins three times better?  I dunno.  But I do know that whatever shocks I install are more than likely going to be the last shocks I ever install on this car.  If I get a satisfactory ride out of them, it's not clear what the justification is for tripling my cost.  Or to put it more bluntly, why should I pay someone just because he went to the trouble to make something I don't need?  That ain't the way the free market works.

[SwedeDownUnderR63]

I am extremely happy with the Bilsteins that I installed on my 63. I use the same brand on my old Volvo 940's which is why I got them for my Buick.

Pricey? Yes but not only do they give me a great ride, the shocks do also give me better control and, hopefully, will assist me in an emergency to save my car and my life.

I have my Riviera because I love to drive it and the Bilstens shocks together with the "GS" springs that I also bought transformed it to a more modern car whilst still being the milestone car that it is.

[KongaMan]

Interesting stuff when you start poking around a bit.  For example, the KYB rear shock references to a 1993-98 Toyota T100.  When you look for other shocks that fit that vehicle, you find the Bilstein 24-021289.  Similarly, the fronts also reference to the Belair, Corvette, etc.  And again, there are Bilsteins listed for those applications (part # 24-009461).  Unfortunately, Bilstein doesn't seem to have their specs readily available, so it's not clear exactly what you'd be getting or how well they might fit the Riviera.  If they do work, though, they are widely available for substantially less than the Bilsteins that are quoted for this car.

[RivNut]

In one of the really early issues of the Riview (when it was typed, photocopied, and the pages were stapled together in the corner and the club was a 63 - 65 club) there was a reference to some OE shocks from other makes that would cross to the Riviera.  One was from a Dodge pickup.  I don't know the year or whether it was front or rear.  

 

If you know anyone in the parts business, ask him if you can look through his Shock Absorber \book.  It will give all of the dimensions for each shock.  Find the one for the Riviera then you need to manually start cross-referencing to see what has the same compression, extension, and what kind of mounts are on the bottom and the top.

 

Ed

[KongaMan]

10 hours ago, RivNut said:

In one of the really early issues of the Riview (when it was typed, photocopied, and the pages were stapled together in the corner and the club was a 63 - 65 club) there was a reference to some OE shocks from other makes that would cross to the Riviera.  One was from a Dodge pickup.  I don't know the year or whether it was front or rear. 

 

Vol. 1 No. 2 notes that the rear shock from a 1980 Chevy C-10 will fit.

[KongaMan]

FWIW, KYB's published spec sheet shows no shocks with a front mount to fit the 63-65 Riviera.  In fact, the mounting tab on the KG4550 appears to be the longest one they make.

[DaveC6970]

Maybe a little late to the discussion, but would either the KYB's or Bilstien's work in a lowered application? I'm installing my coil spring specialties 2" drop springs and seems like replacing the shocks would be a good idea. -Thanks Dave

[Black River]

I've got the kybs on mine and its lowered over 3". You just run them lower in their stroke, but since the car still hits its bump stops at the same spot, they don't bottom themselves first. Its probably not technically "correct" to run them this way, but I've done it for years on other lowered cars. I think jaamco sells shocks specifically for lowered rivs if anybody is worried about it.

[rodneybeauchamp]

This is what came out of my 63 that has the "heavy duty springs and shocks" option according to the paperwork. I had a set of new Gabriel's as replacements but now I am not too sure.

 

If you look at the photo, the Monroes that came out are a whopping 51mm or 2" diameteter in the body with a heavy 15.8mm or 5/8" shaft. The Gabriel's are dwarfed by them as the only measure 41mm body or 1 5/8" and 12.6mm or 1/2" shaft.

 

The Monroes have 5030 stamped on the body but have not seen this number anywhere. 

 

Can anyone help with some possibilities in replacing these heavy duty units with correct replacements. 

[KongaMan]

I had Monroe 5030s in mine.  I replaced them with KYBs.

 

As noted earlier, the KYB is not a drop-in fit, but only minor mods were required.  First, the slots in the tab were a bit too small to accommodate the mounting bolts.  I had to file the insides to open them up (just a little; less than 1/16").  Second, the tab was a little short to span between the two bolts; the end of the tab was just past the midpoint of each bolt.  I used some oversize thick washers on the bolts.

 

As an additional note: you can't press the tab and busing out of the KYBs and replace it with the tab and bushing from the Monroes:

- The eye in the Monroe is just a ring; the parts press out easily.  In the KYB, there's a lip around the edge of the eye that's crimped down around the bushing.  You can press the old one out with some effort, but pressing it back in is a different matter entirely.

- The ID of the eye is different on the two shocks; the bushings aren't directly interchangeable.

- The KYB bushing is bonded to the tab; it won't just slide off.

[rodneybeauchamp]

Thanks KongaMan. Sounds like the KYBs might be a struggle.

 

So are the Monroe 5030 a standard OEM shock or were they a replacement?

 

The Gabiels that I have look way undersize compared to the Monroe, hence my reluctance to fit them. However, there is little information coming back to verify what they are.???????

 

Lets hope someone on this forum can shed some light, as it would be good to replace them with something similar.???

 

tnx Rodney

[KongaMan]

2 hours ago, rodneybeauchamp said:

Sounds like the KYBs might be a struggle.

 

I dunno.  Knowing what I know now, it would take about an extra 5 minutes to make the switch.  The only thing you have to do is widen the inside of the opening a bit -- that's literally a couple of passes with a file.  Put a couple of oversize washers on the bolts and crank them down.

 

AFAIK, the only replacements are Monroes (for that squishy, floating feel), Bilsteins, and the KYBs.  Given those choices, the KYB was in the sweet spot.

 

 

2 hours ago, rodneybeauchamp said:

So are the Monroe 5030 a standard OEM shock or were they a replacement?

 

They'd have to be replacements.  I seem to remember putting them on ~35 years ago.  They are much beefier in appearance, but I don't know that translates directly to better performance.

 

BTW, mine were absolutely shot: I compressed them by hand, and they still haven't rebounded.

[rodneybeauchamp]

Thanks for that. Currently I have a full set of Gabriel's that were supplied, they are current technology, gas filled.

 

The supplier says these provide a slightly firmer ride than Monroe as they do keep both. 

 

If the 5030 is an aftermarket replacement, then the Gabriel's might be ok. Just looking at them side by side says the Monroe would have much more volume of oil which should equal firmer ride. But I don't mind firm but don't want it to be harsh.

 

Least I now know where the 5030 came from, I got all excited thinking they were OEM.

 

Lets see what Monroe Factory say when they get back to me?

 

Cheers Rodney

[jsgun]

This has been a great thread. I'm completely sold on the Bilstein shocks. Gonna save my pennies for them.

 

About a year ago, there was a 65 Riviera in the L.A. craigslist that had been converted to coilovers. Fully adjustable valving up and down, and ride height. It used a standard spring, so it could be changed to pretty much any rate you wanted. A good idea if you're not worried about originality and have a deep wallet..

[fatbuick]

I put a set of George's Bilsteins on my 65 a fews ago and they are the best. Worth every cent. Wish he made them for my 71

I had to pay quite a bit to get them shipped Downunder too, not to mention the exchange rate.

Combined with my custom rear sway bar and heavier front bar it corners extremely well.

Hey, it's not compulsory, buy what you want.