capngrog Posted May 7, 2017 Share Posted May 7, 2017 I have a custom car that weighs approximately 2300 lbs. which I plan to tow on a limited basis with my 2009 Ford Explorer. My Explorer has the 4.0 liter V-6 and has a towing capacity of between 3500 and 5375 pounds. The 3500 lb. rating is from the "Owner's Guide", which I assume to be on the conservative side. The 5375 lb. rating is from a "2009 Ford Explorer Technical Specifications" sheet which I downloaded from the Internet. I've also replaced the stock 1-1/4 inch receiver hitch with a standard 2 inch hitch. I presently flat tow (tow bar) a 1950 Crosley station wagon locally with no problems. Of course the Crosley only weighs around 1600 pounds. This summer, I plan to tow my custom car from Florida to Ohio (Wauseon) and have considered either flat towing or towing using a tow dolly. I think that the tow dolly would be the better option, but have not yet made up (what's left of) my mind. The car I plan to tow is rear wheel drive, but it has a manual transmission, so I don't have to worry about disconnecting the drive shaft etc. The towing dolly I have in mind has electric brakes, and my Explorer has an electric brake controller already installed. If I planned to do any extensive trailering of vehicles, I'd need to acquire a heavy duty tow vehicle and a dual axle trailer, either enclosed or open. Since I'm planning only the one trip, I'd like to make do with what I have. I would very much appreciate any advice/comments. Cheers, Grog P.S. I've searched the General Discussion Forum and have read the comments on trailer towing; however, comments on either flat or dolly towing seem to be limited. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercer09 Posted May 7, 2017 Share Posted May 7, 2017 from experience, check where you can and cannot use a tow dolly. I towed an A coupe about 20 years ago in the poconos in PA and was NOT allowed to use a tow dolly on the turnpike, but flat towing was acceptable and what I did. used an old uhaul tow bar. of course, I could have just stayed off the turnpikes and used single lane roads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_padavano Posted May 7, 2017 Share Posted May 7, 2017 Hadn't heard about the no tow dolly thing on the PA turnpike, but it does not surprise me. I'll add that if you plan to rent a tow dolly, expect to be subjected to an inquiry and ultimate rejection. Most commercial tow dollies are designed for modern FWD small cars and can be tight on anything larger. Also, most rental agencies have been overrun by lawyers and have mindless software that places very conservative limits on what a specific vehicle can or cannot tow. Expect them to use the smaller tow capacity number in such evaluations. Also, they will quiz you about the vehicle you are towing and if it isn't in their database, expect a hassle over that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capngrog Posted May 7, 2017 Author Share Posted May 7, 2017 22 minutes ago, joe_padavano said: I'll add that if you plan to rent a tow dolly, expect to be subjected to an inquiry and ultimate rejection. Most commercial tow dollies are designed for modern FWD small cars and can be tight on anything larger. Also, most rental agencies have been overrun by lawyers and have mindless software that places very conservative limits on what a specific vehicle can or cannot tow. Expect them to use the smaller tow capacity number in such evaluations. Also, they will quiz you about the vehicle you are towing and if it isn't in their database, expect a hassle over that. I've already done the 'dance' with U-Haul, and they apparently don't consider the Ford Explorer to be capable of towing anything. That, coupled with the rental fees, has caused me to consider purchasing a tow dolly instead of attempting to rent one. Flat towing using a tow bar is still something I'm considering. Since I'm thinking of flat towing a car some 2200 miles, does anything need to be done to the front end alignment of the towed vehicle? I'm thinking that the caster may need to be increased ... any thoughts/advice on that? Cheers, Grog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trulyvintage Posted May 7, 2017 Share Posted May 7, 2017 (edited) " I've already done the 'dance' with U-Haul, and they apparently don't consider the Ford Explorer to be capable of towing anything. " That is because the Ford Explorer is not engineered - designed - suitably equipped to be a tow vehicle for other vehicles. That is what Ford trucks do .... If you need to transport a vehicle from Florida to Ohio - drive it or trailer it. Big difference between flat towing a light car locally & flat towing a heavier vehicle on an interstate where folks are traveling at 80 mph. Jim Edited May 7, 2017 by Trulyvintage (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted May 7, 2017 Share Posted May 7, 2017 Anything in tow or with wheels on the road MUST be registered. I think towing your car with a dolly and using your truck(read car) is marginal at best. If the dolly had brakes it would be a big safety factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAVE A Posted May 7, 2017 Share Posted May 7, 2017 Grog, I assume you are coming to Crosley nationals? If so please be sure to identify yourself. I want to ask you a few questions about moving my cars to Florida. Trying to decide what I am going to leave in pa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
46 woodie Posted May 7, 2017 Share Posted May 7, 2017 "U" Haul can drive you crazy if you want to rent a trailer. First they need to locate one and many places only have one per area and if the trailer is being used to transport a car to say, Florida there is no way they know the exact date of return. The next issue is the vehicle that you are going to tow the trailer with. If your tow vehicle isn't in their data base you won't be able to rent the trailer UNLESS you rent a vehicle from U-Haul capable of towing their trailer. Usually a large pick up truck. That was another issue because like the trailer pick up trucks are few and far between in my area. I hired a transport company to ship my vehicle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted May 7, 2017 Share Posted May 7, 2017 (edited) You must know to disconnect the drive shaft if the towed vehicle is automatic. The only problem with flat towing is no brakes on the towed vehicle. Not too big a worry if you are aware of it, and know better than to apply the brakes, on a curve, down hill, in the rain. My old man didn't, wrecked my van and blamed it on me so be warned. To increase your vehicle's towing capacity buy tires one aspect ratio down from stock. In other words if it had 215 70R15 get 215 60R15. If it had 60 series get 50 etc. Add a transmission oil cooler. A good hitch which you have. And a way to have lights on your towed vehicle for tail lights, stop lights, and turn signals. I think there is a radio control device that doesn't need wires. You shouldn't have any trouble flat towing your car with no modifications at all. It is not that heavy and your tow vehicle is pretty good. Just don't use overdrive when towing. Edited May 7, 2017 by Rusty_OToole (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted May 7, 2017 Share Posted May 7, 2017 Drive it or ship it with a carrier. You could make the trip four times for the cost of an Explorer transmission. And that doesn't even count the trailer rental. What is this 2300 pound car, anyway? Bernie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capngrog Posted May 7, 2017 Author Share Posted May 7, 2017 1 hour ago, 60FlatTop said: Drive it or ship it with a carrier. You could make the trip four times for the cost of an Explorer transmission. And that doesn't even count the trailer rental. What is this 2300 pound car, anyway? Bernie Bernie, The weight of the car was estimated by the builder (as I recall, but maybe it was a W.A.G. on my part), and the car is a stock 1952 Crosley Pickup truck on top of a stock 1962 Corvette. Of course, the Corvette body was removed to make way for the much more stylish '52 Crosley pickup body. Anyway, the builder is an avid Corvette guy who builds, races and collects Corvettes. He had this cherry '62 'vette sittin' around his shop that he wanted to 'update' (custom frame, performance suspension, L.S. power etc., and his buddy had a non-running '52 Crosley pickup stashed in the field behind his house ... resulting in this (see attached photo). Oh, umm, please tune out the antlers and reindeer nose since this photo was taken just before Christmas of last year. The result has been a really F.U.N. (Fast, Ugly, Noisy) ride. Well, back to the overall weight question. The stock 1962 Corvette weighs (depending on source) somewhere between 3,000 and 3,300 pounds. As best I can estimate, I think that the curb weight of this Crosvette would be more on the order of 2650 lbs. instead of the 2300 lbs. I posted above. I plan to have it weighed sometime this week. Cheers, Grog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted May 7, 2017 Share Posted May 7, 2017 I was immediately draw to that small odd looking air cleaner. Makes it look odd. And missed the antlers completely. So you are going to take that to Ohio and say "I'm Captain Grog from Florida and this is my custom." Have you been to Ohio before? I'd sure want to know what kind of animals were in rut before I left on that trip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Bollman Posted May 7, 2017 Share Posted May 7, 2017 Grog, I look forward to seeing your modified at the Crosley Nationals. For those non Crosley people reading your thread I should point out that modifieds are the feature class this year. Grog will be in good company. From mild to wild will show up for that class this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAVE A Posted May 7, 2017 Share Posted May 7, 2017 Can't wait to see it in person!!!! This is going to be a totally fun year!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bush Mechanic Posted May 7, 2017 Share Posted May 7, 2017 Behave yourself, Flat Top! I laughed so much I fell out of my chair. And crying in front of the computer is not a good look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Stoneberg Posted May 8, 2017 Share Posted May 8, 2017 7 hours ago, Bush Mechanic said: Behave yourself, Flat Top! I laughed so much I fell out of my chair. And crying in front of the computer is not a good look. If that is all you did after reading Bernie's posts consider yourself lucky. I have sprayed various liquids on keyboard and screen after reading some of his posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Dobbin Posted May 8, 2017 Share Posted May 8, 2017 Captain Grog, The problem with flat towing is getting the towed vehicle to follow you around corners and self correcting back to straight after a turn. When I bought my first 1934 Ford we flat towed it home behind my brothers Firebird Formula 400, it was hell on turns. When I I took it to New Hampshire for a Glidden Tour, I used a dolly. It steered better, but when I had a flat (Using Ford Van rear wheels with radial tires) on the Interstate, I caused some damage before a trucker told me on the CB. After that I bought a trailer. I do flat tow our VW, but use a bungie cord from below the divers seat to the steering wheel to return the steering to straight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JACK M Posted May 8, 2017 Share Posted May 8, 2017 I have studied about towing rear wheel drive vehicles and concluded that when you drive a transmission (manual or automatic) from the rear it will not lubricate properly. I know that some owners manuals (those little Suzuki's for instance) Say that stopping every 200 miles and run the engine in neutral for 10 minutes or so will be satisfactory. Couldn't say about the VWs, I have seen those things get towed all over the place. I would be very wary about propelling any front engine RWD transmission from the rear for any length of time. Bottom line, unhook the driveline or get a trailer. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capngrog Posted May 8, 2017 Author Share Posted May 8, 2017 Paul and Jack, Thanks for the relevant advice. Cheers, Grog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John348 Posted May 8, 2017 Share Posted May 8, 2017 Did you try getting a price on having it transported? It might be more cost effective in the long run 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capngrog Posted May 8, 2017 Author Share Posted May 8, 2017 4 hours ago, John348 said: Did you try getting a price on having it transported? It might be more cost effective in the long run John, The short answer to your question is no, I have not recently tried to get a price on an auto transporter. Judging by most of the discussion on this forum concerning shipping fees, the cost per mile is around $1.00 for covered transport. In my experience, there can be a significant lag time between pick up and drop off, and the shipper can usually only give a window of several days during which the pick up and the drop off could be made. I'm just trying to put together a modest trip to a classic car event in Ohio, and I'm trying to make do with what I have on hand. If I have to sink $2,000+ into just transporting the car to and from the event ... well, there goes the budget. I could afford to send the car, but I wouldn't be able to afford to send myself. Of course, if, what you term "the long run", includes catastrophic break downs, traffic crash tragedies etc. (hopefully only a remote possibility), then I guess I'm better off sitting at home and watching the telly. As to the capabilities of my proposed tow vehicle, a 2009 Ford Explorer, my proposed tow load is only 75% of the rated tow load, if flat-towing, or 85% if dolly-towing. Those figures are for the non-towing package rating of 3500 lb.; however, with the towing package, the allowable towing weight is over 5,000 pounds. With the addition of a transmission oil cooler (which I'm planning to do), I will essentially have the factory towing package (53G) with the exception of the rear end ratio. For the towing package, a 3.73 rear is combined with the 4.0L V-6, whereas the same package for the V-8 specifies a ratio of 3.55:1 (which is what I have). I'm not sure that the difference between a 3.73 and a 3.55 (a difference of only 5%) will be all that noticeable on the road. I appreciate the advice I'm getting via this thread. Cheers, Grog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Street Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 Grog: You have created an interesting towing question. Yes, in the early 60's the racer guys flat towed across the country with legendary stories including towing them upside down when something went real bad! Dolly's make for an interesting towing experience especially when seeing how far you can beat your previous record of backing one. I have towed with all sorts of the various combinations and experiences. So... you asked for opinions so here is mine. I definitely would exhaust all trailering options but sounds like that might not be doable for you on this one. Given the Ford Explorer's towing track record I would buy the dolly and not flat tow. I would recommend a "tire-safeguard" TPMS for the dolly and the towed vehicle tires. I have used this system on my trailer for years. How old are the tires on the Corvette chassis? Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BillP Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 I'd be in favor of neither flat nor dolly towing, but your budget doesn't leave a lot of options. Anyway, when you get to Wauseon, be sure to stop at Becker Automotive, just a mile south of the fairgrounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Bollman Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 I assume just driving it is off the table? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimy Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 15 minutes ago, mike6024 said: California Vehicle Code requires cars to either have fenders or mudflaps at least as wide as the tire tread... I believe Calif has an exception for cars of 1,500 lbs or less--which the Crosvette is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike6024 Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 I would cheap out and buy a dolly without brakes even so long as there are no steep descents. My only experience is trailers and dollies without brakes and of course never follow the vehicle ahead too closely. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 (edited) Florida is different. Neither a tow dolly nor the towed vehicle needs to be licensed. A car trailer does. Most rental company trailers have surge brakes that work pretty well. U-haul likes my Jeep Grand Cherokee (has trailer towing package with class III hitch), have rented everything from a 6x12 tandem to a tandem car trailer. My tow dolly has never been a problem, use magnetic lights on the toad. With the dolly I put heavy end up (tow Fiero backwards) and drop the driveshaft if front engine/RWD/automatic (oil pump is on input shaft). FWD is just drive on and go. Before the Jeep I had a Pontiac Transport with 3800, load leveling, and a frame mount class II hitch. Have towed a Reatta for a couple of hundred miles but kept to 55 or 60. Back in the day I towed A Lot with a mid sized station wagon, a frame hitch, & airlifts but that was before there were laws and standards to keep us safe. Edited May 10, 2017 by padgett (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digger914 Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 Flat towing verses dolly towing, I've done both for cross country and prefer flat towing on flat land to dolly towing on flat land. Flat towing kind of fell out of favor when safety bumpers made flat towing dangerous and tow bars had to be fixed to the frame, it wasn't long after that there was no frame to attach the tow bar. After that came front wheel drive and flat towing became a thing of the past. This is a car with a full frame and a drive train that can be flat towed. The 09 Explorer with a V6 won't have any trouble pulling this all day long at highway speeds on flat land, the V8 will take it up hills. Slowing down is the bigger issue. Even with the tranny out of overdrive for towing, the engine braking of the automatic transmission is nothing like it was 30 years ago, good for gas mileage, not so good for slowing a load and the brakes do all the breaking. Give yourself some extra stopping room and the Explorer brakes will be OK for flat land breaking, for hill country you will need the extra breaking of the trailer dolly. Most dolly trailers have surge brakes and I towed a mini van through the Wisconsin Dells on one of those things, it was an irritating miserable drive. This was behind a truck with a 5th wheel hitch, the receiver hitch was for the small stuff. Surge brakes are better than no brakes, but they do not control as well as electric. Putting all 4 wheels on a trailer built to carry a car is my first choice for transporting today. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vermontboy Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 U Haul in our area will not even consider renting me a car trailer even though my '91 Blazer was custom ordered specifically to spend it's life towing a 5500 pound travel trailer on summer vacations. It did so successfully for over 20 summers before I purchased it from the original owner two years ago showing only 42,000 miles on the odometer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capngrog Posted May 10, 2017 Author Share Posted May 10, 2017 14 hours ago, Jim Bollman said: I assume just driving it is off the table? Driving the Crosvette isn't off the table; however, that would probably prove to me more of an ordeal than an adventure. First of all, there is no air conditioning, and the cab has several leaks when driving in the rain. While I enjoy the exhaust note on short trips, the exhaust system hits a resonance node between 52 and 58 mph, and I think that enduring that sound over a 2200 mile round trip would be dangerous to both my hearing and my sanity (what little remains of both). At speeds above 60 mph, the exhaust note becomes less noticeable, probably due to the increased road noise. Other than that, the car is fairly comfortable to drive. Cheers, Grog 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Dobbin Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 Greg, Jack is correct when he said "stopping every 200 miles and run the engine in neutral for 10 minutes or so will be satisfactory". When we dollied our 34 Ford FL to NH behind our motor home, in the evenings I would jack up a rear wheel, start the engine and run it thru the gears. (500 mile days) My theory was, that the gear lube is so hard to get off my hands that it must also be hard to wear it off the gears. Never damaged anything or caused any wear. I should have included that in my prior post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 (edited) How large is it ? Just wondering because a Mini (original) will fit in a closed U-Haul 6x12. SInce my dolly has a winch and main hold is the tire straps (also have fore and aft straps), it is a lot easier on the toad than a tow bar. It also has steering that is unlocked when towing. Just replaced the tires for the second time (age) and requires no insurance or tag (if go out of Florida keep a copy of RS-63 handy). NOTE: A tow dolly does not require registration nor does the vehicle it is transporting. However, the towing vehicle must be currently registered. ps that "stop and run every 200 miles" applies to manual transmission only. At idle the whole cluster shaft spins and splashes so everything gets lubed but I make it every 100 miles and no need to go through gears. Just my opinion. If the drive axle of an automatic is on the ground, I pull the driveshaft (and they make plugs for the back of the tranny so you don't loose fluid). pps since am alone is the usual way to pickup or drop off a car. I have a dolly but borrow/rent a car trailer when needed (or someone else is paying). ppps think the 91 Blazer has only a 5100 lb gross weight while for my GC it is 6500 lbs & has a class III hitch rated for 500/5000 lbs (later ones are more). Edited May 10, 2017 by padgett (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 1 hour ago, capngrog said: Driving the Crosvette isn't off the table; however, that would probably prove to me more of an ordeal than an adventure. First of all, there is no air conditioning, and the cab has several leaks when driving in the rain. While I enjoy the exhaust note on short trips, the exhaust system hits a resonance node between 52 and 58 mph, and I think that enduring that sound over a 2200 mile round trip would be dangerous to both my hearing and my sanity (what little remains of both). At speeds above 60 mph, the exhaust note becomes less noticeable, probably due to the increased road noise. Other than that, the car is fairly comfortable to drive. Cheers, Grog Sounds like you need some goggles and ear plugs, possibly a few bottles of ice water and you're good to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 Well the CrosVette does have vent windows and fender vents but a SBC does put out a lot of heat. Also using a TV provides for carrying tools and support systems. Can understand the need for AC (all of my cars & the TM have), hit 90F on my patio before 11am this morning, suspect Paisley is similar. (May is always up and down, half past June to half past September is just plain hot - garage work is best done between 10 pm and 2 am). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Schramm Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 My old truck has 2/25 air conditioning. Two windows down and 25 mph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vermontboy Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 2 hours ago, padgett said: ppps think the 91 Blazer has only a 5100 lb gross weight while for my GC it is 6500 lbs & has a class III hitch rated for 500/5000 lbs (later ones are more). Actually according to the Chevrolet Passenger Car and Truck Trailering Guide the 1991 S/T Blazer properly equipped with trans and engine oil coolers, HD suspension, weight distributing platform hitch, 3.42 rear , etc has a maximum gross trailer weight of 6000 pounds and maximum tongue load of 750 pounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Schramm Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 I tried the rental agencies a couple of times for a trailer and every time they came back that what I was towing it with and what I was towing they would not rent to me. Got tired of the run around and just went out and bought my own trailer. Done. Now I tow anything with anything. I know how to read the tow capacities of my vehicles and just make sure I am safe. End of story. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercer09 Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 I tried the rental agencies a couple of times for a trailer and every time they came back that what I was towing it with and what I was towing they would not rent to me. Got tired of the run around and just went out and bought my own trailer. Done. sometimes you just gotta lie a little.............. I never say Im towing a Model A ford- I say 1985 ford escort- it puts them in their comfort zone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JACK M Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 I would drive it. The journey is always better than the destination. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capngrog Posted December 21, 2017 Author Share Posted December 21, 2017 On 5/7/2017 at 4:37 PM, capngrog said: Bernie, The weight of the car was estimated by the builder (as I recall, but maybe it was a W.A.G. on my part), and the car is a stock 1952 Crosley Pickup truck on top of a stock 1962 Corvette. Of course, the Corvette body was removed to make way for the much more stylish '52 Crosley pickup body. Anyway, the builder is an avid Corvette guy who builds, races and collects Corvettes. He had this cherry '62 'vette sittin' around his shop that he wanted to 'update' (custom frame, performance suspension, L.S. power etc., and his buddy had a non-running '52 Crosley pickup stashed in the field behind his house ... resulting in this (see attached photo). Oh, umm, please tune out the antlers and reindeer nose since this photo was taken just before Christmas of last year. The result has been a really F.U.N. (Fast, Ugly, Noisy) ride. Well, back to the overall weight question. The stock 1962 Corvette weighs (depending on source) somewhere between 3,000 and 3,300 pounds. As best I can estimate, I think that the curb weight of this Crosvette would be more on the order of 2650 lbs. instead of the 2300 lbs. I posted above. I plan to have it weighed sometime this week. Cheers, Grog I finally found one of those "Round Tuit" things and weighed this car. With a quarter tank of gas, it weighs 2615 pounds. Merry Christmas. Cheers, Grog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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