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5 minutes ago, buick man said:

… guess the point we be makin here Scottie, is that the efficiency, torque and h.p. one produces is proportional to the necessary individual components working together to achieve that goal … cam, head porting, piston size and crank stroke etc… so put another way in this situation to benefit from the increase fuel flow by bolting on a 4bbl carb, one therefore needs a matched increase capability in air flow capacity as an engine is a breathing creature … the existing low duration cam profile on the low compression 364 will benefit little from the addition of 4bbl setup because it will not be able to breathe sufficiently well enough to benefit from the change over … and this will quickly become apparent at the narrow yet crucial torque band ranges where one would hope to find this benefit … 

Darn. Well i did find a cheap 4 barrel intake. I guess ill just try it out and see what happens. Ill always have my original setup to go back to if anything happens, right? 

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Russ built the 364 w/barrel added over 10 years ago for my 57 special. Ive driven it over 200 miles to get to a show several times over the years with no issues. He's always been a good guy to me and he has always been willing to share his knowledge.

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7 minutes ago, oldstyle said:

Russ built the 364 w/barrel added over 10 years ago for my 57 special. Ive driven it over 200 miles to get to a show several times over the years with no issues. He's always been a good guy to me and he has always been willing to share his knowledge.

Russ does seem like a cool dude. Ive talked with him a few times before about some nailhead stuff. We'll see how my little project goes! Hopefully well. Im nervous about it

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In any case, if you don't use the secondaries on the 4 barrel very often, you'll probably get better gas mileage. I'm not 100% certain for 57, but in 56 the two barrel carbs had much larger venturis and internals vs the four barrel counterparts. If you're buying it for muscle, just be prepared to watch you wallet shrink. I always tell myself "this fill up, I won't dip the secondaries"... and then I dip the secondaries leaving the gas station.

 

There's a few 57s at the junkyard I go to. I'll stop by this weekend and see about heads if you're interested.

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5 minutes ago, Beemon said:

In any case, if you don't use the secondaries on the 4 barrel very often, you'll probably get better gas mileage. I'm not 100% certain for 57, but in 56 the two barrel carbs had much larger venturis and internals vs the four barrel counterparts. If you're buying it for muscle, just be prepared to watch you wallet shrink. I always tell myself "this fill up, I won't dip the secondaries"... and then I dip the secondaries leaving the gas station.

 

There's a few 57s at the junkyard I go to. I'll stop by this weekend and see about heads if you're interested.

yeah, if you would be willing to look then sure! thank you!

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Brandon,

 

Your car is a Special, correct? if it is, I would not venture to put a 4bbl intake and carb on it. You do need the correct heads for the 300 HP that the 4bbl system was on.

 

I just was looking for one on eBay and here for my Caballero. Someone at some time earlier put a 2bbl carb and intake on it to save on gas mileage. They are not cheap. Expect to pay around $400-500 for one in decent condition. Carburetors are around $100-150, depending on condition, and that is one that has all the parts and is in working, but needs rebuilding condition.

 

I unfortunately purchased a 401 4bbl manifold thinking that it would fit. Nope. The distance between the mounting holes, ie, how it mounts to the heads is different. As RivNut said, you an buy adapter plates for putting a 401 4bbl intake on, but I do not know what they do to performance.

 

Good luck with your quest, Don Quixote!

 

Jim

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6 minutes ago, 1957buickjim said:

Brandon,

 

Your car is a Special, correct? if it is, I would not venture to put a 4bbl intake and carb on it. You do need the correct heads for the 300 HP that the 4bbl system was on.

 

I just was looking for one on eBay and here for my Caballero. Someone at some time earlier put a 2bbl carb and intake on it to save on gas mileage. They are not cheap. Expect to pay around $400-500 for one in decent condition. Carburetors are around $100-150, depending on condition, and that is one that has all the parts and is in working, but needs rebuilding condition.

 

I unfortunately purchased a 401 4bbl manifold thinking that it would fit. Nope. The distance between the mounting holes, ie, how it mounts to the heads is different. As RivNut said, you an buy adapter plates for putting a 401 4bbl intake on, but I do not know what they do to performance.

 

Good luck with your quest, Don Quixote!

 

Jim

hey Jim, thanks for the reply! i did find a 4bbl intake and carburetor. my car is a Special. I actually did not know about the heads until this thread. But i guess we'll see what happens! did you manage to get a hold of an intake?

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HI Brandon,

 

I did get a intake and a carb for the Caballero. Did you also get a 4bbl air cleaner? They are different from the 2bbl, with the fit on the air intake on the carb (4bbl is larger diameter) and has orange lettering on the outside versus white for the 2bbl.

 

 It will be interesting to find out how things work out. Keep me posted!

 

Good luck!

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4 hours ago, 1957buickjim said:

HI Brandon,

 

I did get a intake and a carb for the Caballero. Did you also get a 4bbl air cleaner? They are different from the 2bbl, with the fit on the air intake on the carb (4bbl is larger diameter) and has orange lettering on the outside versus white for the 2bbl.

 

 It will be interesting to find out how things work out. Keep me posted!

 

Good luck!

Thanks Jim! And no, i havent hunted down a new air breather yet. I did not know they were different. Guess thatll be another thing on the list.

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13 minutes ago, Brandon Todd said:

Well gents, did I do good for $100?

20170515_132053.jpg

?

 

A good media blast and make sure the mounting surfaces are absolutely flat and you'll be a happy camper.

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  • 1 year later...
  • 4 weeks later...

I'm hoping to finally get my car home on Friday. Mine is a 58 Super 4dr. I will have a complete  364 4bbl engine, transmission, lots of trim, seats, windows, and other parts. I'm not looking to get rich of this car or the parts. EXAMPLE: If the part you want is valued at $100 + shipping then I would prefer you not have more than the $100 in the part shipping included. Or I will sell the car whole. I do not have a title. 

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5 hours ago, Quinton Walls said:

I'm hoping to finally get my car home on Friday. Mine is a 58 Super 4dr. I will have a complete  364 4bbl engine, transmission, lots of trim, seats, windows, and other parts. I'm not looking to get rich of this car or the parts. EXAMPLE: If the part you want is valued at $100 + shipping then I would prefer you not have more than the $100 in the part shipping included. Or I will sell the car whole. I do not have a title. 

Can you make a separate post with some pictures to show condition of things, when you get the car?  Where are you located? 

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 9 months later...

ok.  coupe kid is wrong..... all 57 to 59 364/401 cylinder heads ARE THE SAME. DOES NOT MATTER IF ITS A FOUR BARREL ARE TWO BARREL ENGINE.  yes, the ports are smaller and sloppier for the 2 barrel intake, but the head ports are all the same.   59 is machined for the larger 59 to 66 exhaust valves.  the difference between 59 heads and 60 to 66 is the temp sender outlet thread is pipe instead of straight thread like the early 53 to 59 nailheads.  401/425 intakes DO NOT bolt onto a 364.  364 has shorter deck height, therefore the intake is narrower.  had to log on here and set things straight due to excessive phone calls at the shop regarding wrong information people are reading on this thread.

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On 5/9/2017 at 12:00 PM, coupekid said:

Brandon, ...Russ, said 1173313 will fit & i agree that it will fit ...but the ports are different sizes   !!!   I showed you pic of  the under side of  the 4BBL 1173313 manifold you seek & what Russ, has informed you to buy   here is pic of that manifold top with part # Russ, asked you that would fit ..... under this pic is a pic of the top of the 2BBL  manifold you have on your car right now  with  part # 1173878   go check your manifold on your car & you will see  you have this part #  1173878 on your manifold .      then go back & look at the pics of both manifolds underneath on bottom of page 1 ....there is a major difference in port sizes.... this Russ, guy is about to get you burnt my friend ..when you take your 2bbl manifold off  measure the  inlets ...then when you speak with a seller with 4bbl 1173313 manifold ask them to provide measurement of inlet ports on that manifold...there will be significant difference   !      ask Russ   ..whats the difference between a 364ci in a Special & a 364ci in a Super or Roadmaster ...he will say " there is no difference "    ..then go to your 1957 Buick factory chassis manual under engine specifications  ...4 bbl..intake.jpg

1957 buick 2bbl intake top.jpg

stop listening to this guy!  he knows NOTHING.  the only four barrel stock manifold for the 364 is the 1173313.  the 2 barrel manifolds have smaller and sloppier casted porting.  the CYLINDER HEAD IS THE SAME whether its a 2 barrel or four barrel engine.   is there differences between the cheaper special engines?  of course.  different compression ratios with different pistons, as well as different cam grinds,..  but castings were the same regardless..   all 57 to 66 nailheads use the same exact intake gasket.  THERE IS NO FACTORY LISTING FOR A SEPERATE INTAKE GASKET for two barrel engines.   notice coupe kid isnt showing anyone pictures of the cylinder head porting,  ONLY PICTURES OF THE INTAKES.  theres only one cylinder head casting number for 57 and 58.  "1172889"   factory buick parts book shows one cylinder head for 57 and 58, as well.  the 364 uses a narrower intake because deck height is shorter.  this clown has never even torn one of these engines down

Edited by nailhead matt
typo (see edit history)
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Hello everyone!

 

I do appreciate everyones input, it really does help a lot and i value your time and knowledge. 

 

I bought the 4bbl intake back in 2017 and have had it sitting on a shelf since! I found one in a California junkyard and paid about $50 shipped. Im going to slap it in the ol 364 one day and see how it does.

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to discredit coupe kid even further.  above, is a picture of a 364 manifold on a 401 engine.  take note, the intake is too narrow for it, dispite the total BS coupe kid is spreading.   take note, the 364, 401, and 425 all use the same intake gasket.  obviously the 364 intake is narrower because the deck height is shorter.  

Edited by nailhead matt
typo (see edit history)
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  • 10 months later...
On 10/2/2019 at 4:11 PM, Brandon Todd said:

Hello everyone!

 

I do appreciate everyones input, it really does help a lot and i value your time and knowledge. 

 

I bought the 4bbl intake back in 2017 and have had it sitting on a shelf since! I found one in a California junkyard and paid about $50 shipped. Im going to slap it in the ol 364 one day and see how it does.

Do you still have the 364 4 bbl intake manifold (you say it had been sitting on a shelf)? If so, I am interested in buying it from you. Let me know. You can PM me. thanks

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Take Matt's word as gospel.  Think about it. The cylinders in a Nailhead V8 are at a 90° angle to each other.  Longer stroke engines require deeper cylinder walls. To get a deeper cylinder wall the deck height has to get longer. The longer the deck height, the farther apart the top of the cylinders.  Therefore the intake manifold needs to be wider.  Raise your hands above your head with your arms straight.  Isn't the distance between your hands greater than the distance between your elbows? The cylinders can have the same bore centers so the heads are the same length and will fit any block therefore the intakes are the same length. BUT the intakes cannot be the same width because of the increased deck height.

 

Matt and his dad, Russ, probably know more about nailhead engines than the rest of us combined. We should all be glad that he's part of the forum to guide us and keep us away from the misinformed who seem to misinform the rest of us.

 

Ed

Edited by RivNut (see edit history)
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This is Dale in Ks. I have an old 57 Buick wagon that we pulled the heads off of years a go and think I prob put the intake and carb in side the car some where ,witch has filled up w other parts over 55 yrs. if you don’t find something I would look and see what I have left of that engine. 620 332 493two / dale.tharp@gmail.com. 

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23 minutes ago, RivNut said:

If it was a Century or a Roadmaster, chances are it has  4 bbl intake. 

Yes, the Century, Super, and Roadmaster all had 300hp engines that were 4bbl. The wagons were another story. I believe the Estate wagon engine was based on the Special engine and came with a 2bbl setup. The Caballero may be a 4bbl setup.

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On 8/24/2020 at 7:19 AM, Dale Tharp said:

This is Dale in Ks. I have an old 57 Buick wagon that we pulled the heads off of years a go and think I prob put the intake and carb in side the car some where ,witch has filled up w other parts over 55 yrs. if you don’t find something I would look and see what I have left of that engine. 620 332 493two / dale.tharp@gmail.com. 

Dale: I sent you an email about a week ago, noting that I am interested in the intake manifold (if you can find or have one). Can you please reply as to what the status is for this part?

 

Thanks

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