364 4bbl Intake and Carb

[Brandon Todd]

I know these are kind of hard to find, but I'll get my ad out anyway:

I'm looking for a 4 barrel intake and carburetor for my 1957 364 nailhead. If i am unable to get a hold of an original without cutting off an arm and a leg, does anybody remake these parts? Also, does any other 4 barrel intake from other years/makes fit onto the 364 nailhead?

 

Thanks so much for any help. I'd appreciate it!

-BT

[Beemon]

Intakes match as follows 264/322, 364, 401/425. So any 364 manifold should fit. Good luck with the carburetor! 

[Brandon Todd]

Thank you so much!  Yeah, i know it's unlikey ill find one, especially since only a 364 will work. But i figured there is no harm in trying

[dei]

Just to expand on what Beemon said, the 364 nailhead engine was used up to 1960. (61's?not sure) 

Good luck on your quest. They're out there.

Doug

[carbking]

Both Rochester 4-GC and Carter AFB carbs were used.

 

The Rochesters, while not growing on trees, ARE available with a little searching, and not overly expensive.

 

The Carter AFBs are a totally different story. Why? Because the AFB casting used on the late 1950's Buicks is similar (NOT the same, but close) to the castings used by Pontiac on their early 1960's Super Duty. The folks building "almost" Super Dutys buy the Buick cores for the lower casting, the mid-1960's 340 Buick cores for the upper casting, reproduction throttle arms, and a calibration kit for WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY less than a pair of genuine Super Duty cores (if one can even find Super Duty cores).

 

Jon.

[Beemon]

The nice thing about the 364 and up is that, in the event that you cannot find a carburetor anytime soon, any modern aftermarket carburetor will bolt up without an adapter. Might need a bit of toying, but other have had success with the Edelbrock 600cfm carb even on 322s.

[Brandon Todd]

I do have a few rochester 4 barrels. So that may help me out! Really i guess the intake is my biggest worry.

[coupekid]

depends if you have the 250 HP eng or 300 HP engine  ..if you have the 300HP  engine with larger intake manifold ports & exhaust ports  these  401,425 below will fit     ..if you want to see more,,, type in ebay .... "nailhead manifold"...  if your car has the 4 BBL from factory  ..you may just have the 300HP eng .....But then again these cars were made to order & some people did order 4 BBL carbs on their 250HP engines..  most larger wheel base cars (super, Roadmaster) did get the bigger HP engines...so  to properly find out  if you either have the 300HP or 250HP engine  ...measure the intake ports .

 When buying (intake gaskets only) for 1957/58 buick some sellers do stipulate (40-50) & either (60-70) series ...not many sellers, mechanics, buick fanatics etc etc know that there are 2 types ...     AND also when you purchase a new complete eng gasket kit  you will get the 60-70 series intake gasket.      I`ve been there & stumbled on this intake gasket  phenomena from wayback..& my eyebrows went down  like i hated the world..!! especially when these supposed experts whom sell these gaskets failed to know this themselves ! 

Your factory chassis repair manual also shows the differences in the 250HP & 300HP engines.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Buick-Nailhead-Original-4-Barrel-Intake-Manifold-1375549-401-425-/271947862424?hash=item3f515b1198:g:AKMAAOSwd4tTthKz&vxp=mtr

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Buick-4-Barrel-Intake-Manifold-Nailhead-Original-1363782-401/252794025382?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D40130%26meid%3Dc1c5fceccf4a4117bfe41e6cff330d29%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D271947862424&autorefresh=true

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/401-425-Buick-nailhead-4-barrel-intake-1353241-for-1957-58-59-60-61-62-63/162410014959?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D40130%26meid%3Dc1c5fceccf4a4117bfe41e6cff330d29%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D271947862424

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Buick-Nailhead-Original-4-Barrel-Intake-Manifold-1363782-401-425-Hot-Rod/142261094333?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D40130%26meid%3Dc1c5fceccf4a4117bfe41e6cff330d29%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D271947862424

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Buick-Nailhead-Original-4-Barrel-Intake-Manifold-1375549-401-425-Hot-Rod-Ivo/191282640208?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D40130%26meid%3Dc1c5fceccf4a4117bfe41e6cff330d29%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D271947862424

Edited May 7, 2017 by coupekid (see edit history)

[Brandon Todd]

Hi!  Thank you for that detailed reply with several links! I would totally hop on one of those, but i think I have the 250 HP engine. It's the factory engine in a 57 special 4dr ht. Currently it has the 2bbl setup. So im guessing i gave to have the 364-specific intake.

Edited May 7, 2017 by Brandon Todd (see edit history)

[coupekid]

be very hard to find a 4bbl manifold to suit a 250HP eng  unless you match port  your inlet chambers on your heads to the 300HP manifold which is not difficult. ...otherwise   change your heads to the 300HP type.

Edited May 7, 2017 by coupekid (see edit history)

[Brandon Todd]

The heads easy to get ahold of? (I havent done much research on that yet)

1 minute ago, coupekid said:

be very hard to find a 4bbl manifold to suit a 250HP eng  unless you port out your inport chambers on your heads ...or   change your heads to the 300HP type.

 

[coupekid]

there have been  heads from a 58 for sale on ebay  for $299 ea ..whether  they are from a 300HP im not sure ...but you could purchase  401 or 425 heads to boost your HP...401 425 heads will bolt straight on your 364ci  block no probs ...theres a guy or there was a guy selling a 364 eng  with 425 heads    you might find that under 58 buick engine

Edited May 7, 2017 by coupekid (see edit history)

[coupekid]

i dont see any of these  head ADS  on atm  so check in time to time ..  but did find a  1957 buick 4bbl carb for $79  with 4 hrs to go

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1957-BUICK-ROADMASTER-CENTURY-SUPER-364-7011570-ROCHESTER-4-JET-CARB-AC-7-DATE-/252910186609?hash=item3ae29f3071:g:z3AAAOSwX61ZBmo3&vxp=mtr

Edited May 7, 2017 by coupekid (see edit history)

[Brandon Todd]

5 hours ago, coupekid said:

i dont see any of these  head ADS  on atm  so check in time to time ..  but did find a  1957 buick 4bbl carb for $79  with 4 hrs to go

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1957-BUICK-ROADMASTER-CENTURY-SUPER-364-7011570-ROCHESTER-4-JET-CARB-AC-7-DATE-/252910186609?hash=item3ae29f3071:g:z3AAAOSwX61ZBmo3&vxp=mtr

UPDATE: Bought this carburetor. Only the intake to go! Thanks coupekid for the hookup in this! Very appreciated.

[RivNut]

Brandon,

 

Contact Russ Martin at www.nailheadbuick.com about his adapters for mounting 401/425 I takes on a 364.  In  all the years I've been playing with Buicks (drove a 55 Special to high school in 62) I've never heard of what coupekid is talking about.  The problem is the differences in deck heights between the 364 and the 401/425.  The longer stroke 401/425 has a taller deck height.  As the deck height gets taller, the intake ports get farther apart.  Look at the "nailhead casting numbers" reference on the Team Buick website.  It gives you the distance between bolt holes across the intake.  Caveat emptor.

 

https://www.teambuick.com/reference/casting_numbers_nailhead.php

[Brandon Todd]

2 minutes ago, RivNut said:

Brandon,

 

Contact Russ Martin at www.nailheadbuick.com about his adapters for mounting 401/425 I takes on a 364.  In  all the years I've been playing with Buicks (drove a 55 Special to high school in 62) I've never heard of what coupekid is talking about.  The problem is the differences in deck heights between the 364 and the 401/425.  The longer stroke 401/425 has a taller deck height.  As the deck height gets taller, the intake ports get farther apart.  Look at the "nailhead casting numbers" reference on the Team Buick website.  It gives you the distance between bolt holes across the intake.  Caveat emptor.

 

https://www.teambuick.com/reference/casting_numbers_nailhead.php

Thanks for the reply! Have you ever bought an adapter from Russ? Ive called him up before and bought some freeze plugs from him.

Edited May 8, 2017 by Brandon Todd (see edit history)

[RivNut]

Nope, always drove the cars as delivered.  55 Special to high school as a sophomore in 62, 57 Century to high school in 65 as a senior.  Many Wildcat and Rivieras since then.  The only swap I did, once, was a 66 Qjet intake and carb to 64 Riviera.  Both had 425s.  

[Guest]

23 hours ago, Brandon Todd said:

I know these are kind of hard to find, but I'll get my ad out anyway:

I'm looking for a 4 barrel intake and carburetor for my 1957 364 nailhead. If i am unable to get a hold of an original without cutting off an arm and a leg, does anybody remake these parts? Also, does any other 4 barrel intake from other years/makes fit onto the 364 nailhead?

 

Thanks so much for any help. I'd appreciate it!

-BT

Funny you should ask! Please PM if still interested. I had heard smaller valves 57-58, than later, 59 first year 401, so that makes sense, but port size difference is a new one for me? Do you have dual exhaust? Back in the day I think Buick like Chev had power pack options for duals and four barrels on Specials, just rumors I've heard. Driverside Dual exhaust manifold 57-58 only and only diff those years I know of 58, I believe has bigger studs to attach headpipes than 57. Anywho, have it all if wanted. If you go much further a 401 originally in front of a dynaflow is relatively simple! I don't know if I buy that hp diff tho? 250 hp 2 brl 364", 300 hp 4brl 364", only 325 hp for 4 brl 401"? Hmmm? Numbers game? Good luck on your project!

[Brandon Todd]

5 minutes ago, 2carb40 said:

Funny you should ask! Please PM if still interested. I had heard smaller valves 57-58, than later, 59 first year 401, so that makes sense, but port size difference is a new one for me? Do you have dual exhaust? Back in the day I think Buick like Chev had power pack options for duals and four barrels on Specials, just rumors I've heard. Driverside Dual exhaust manifold 57-58 only and only diff those years I know of 58, I believe has bigger studs to attach headpipes than 57. Anywho, have it all if wanted. If you go much further a 401 originally in front of a dynaflow is relatively simple! I don't know if I buy that hp diff tho? 250 hp 2 brl 364", 300 hp 4brl 364", only 325 hp for 4 brl 401"? Hmmm? Numbers game? Good luck on your project!

PM sent!

[coupekid]

maybe not on a 401 & 425ci ...but intake ports differ on 364ci between 250HP & 300HP engine... I own 2 ..1957 Buicks 250HP... 3 months ago i purchased a complete engine gasket set for 364ci Buick 1957.. when i compared my old  2 steel original inlet manifold gaskets off my 2bbl 250HP eng the port size cutouts were much smaller than the new inlet manifold gaskets that were sent in the new kit..  thus i couldnt use them .. when i restored my first 1957 buick 20 yrs ago i had the same problem , gasket kit back then also came with larger port steel  intake gaskets ...I still own both 1957 Buicks !!  

here is a link below that is for intake gasket set  for sale & stipulates  on the box from factory its for 1957 Buick 40 series only..    

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fel-Pro-Manifold-Gasket-Set-Intake-MS-9428-SH-Buick-V8-40-Series-1957-1959-/282062698798?hash=item41ac3f392e:g:B-EAAOSwLnBXWIIq&vxp=mtr

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 11, 2017 by coupekid (see edit history)

[coupekid]

  

 

Edited May 11, 2017 by coupekid (see edit history)

[Brandon Todd]

Who knew this was such a confusing topic! It's wild. 

[RivNut]

I understand what coupekid is saying about differences in the 57 heads, but intake I tech a gesture is all dependent on the deck height of the block.  Call Russ, Tom, Or Carmen.  They'll set you straight.

[RivNut]

I just looked.  There's a 57 four barrel intake on eBay right now.  Type in "Buick nailhead intake", there's no mention of cubic inches.  Check casting numbers first though.

 

Ed

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-1957-BUICK-NAILHEAD-4-BARREL-INTAKE-MANIFOLD-1173313-/311865837465?hash=item489ca70799:g:uR0AAOSwTM5Y6oYe&vxp=mtr

Edited May 8, 2017 by RivNut
Added eBay link (see edit history)

[coupekid]

READ THIS BEFORE YOU BUY THAT 4BBL MANIFOLD  !!!

 

Dont buy that 4BBl manifold unless you either buy the 364ci heads with 300HP or match port your 2BBL heads to this 4BBL  !!

 

 The under-side of the 4BBL intake mentioned for sale by ED, is the top pic shown here below... now check out the pic below that...it is of a 2BBL from a 1957 Buick also ..you can find this also on ebay ..

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Buick-364-Nailhead-Intake-Manifold-/152509864127?fits=Year%3A1957|Make%3ABuick&hash=item23824bd8bf:g:KE4AAOSw32lYoMLZ&vxp=mtr

 

look at the difference in port sizes ...                  like i said ..not many nailhead engine fanatics realise there is this difference   

 

 

 

 

Edited May 9, 2017 by coupekid (see edit history)

[Guest]

Another example of we own the market, so engineering expense be darned, we are going to do this low production thing! Have seen more examples of Buicks low production engineering of specialty stuff! Mid year 65 Grand Sport, putting 401s in Skylarks and one more time in 1966 and done! Oh yeah, we need a couple stick trans  parts for those too! Hard to keep up with these esoteric(little known) factoids!

[RivNut]

No one was disputing you.  The original thread was asking if there were other that intakes could be used on a 364.  The answer to that is "no."  No oth er Buick intake will work.  The reason is the difference in deck heights of the two blocks which makes a wider intake necessary for the 401/425.  The 322 intake is too narrow - shorter deck height.  No one was asking about port sizes.  Port sizing has nothing to do with the space between bolt holes.

[coupekid]

actually if you look back    RivNut,  at your statement on page 1 here ..you did say that  ....

 

"you never heard of what coupekid is talking about " 

 

infact  other members did  too .. & now your saying.......... "no-one is disputing me"      ?????      No offence take my friend ..its all good

                                                                                           

 ... i think you have the 322ci  on your mind.. & your correct its not interchangeable

 

    ...all Buick 364, 401 ,425  do have intake manifold holes spaced out the same....thats why if you buy a complete Buick 1957 engine gasket kit ...it stipulates that the kit suits 364, 401, 425, & that  the steel  intake gaskets suit these engines.  

The 401 & 425 intake manifold  fits the Buick 1957/58.. 364ci block  !!

...nothing to do with deck height   !!   remember we are talking about the 364ci eng not the 322ci

.

The   364ci  Engine with 300HP heads from a  1957/58 Buick  & with  4bbl  intake manifold with the larger  port sizes  will fit & marry perfectly on the  401ci, 425ci engine ..& vice versa...they come with the same inlet/exhaust size ports . from memory larger valves on 401,425 heads differ only.

hence why some folk do put 401, 425 heads on their 364ci.

 

The 2BBL  with only 250HP ..364ci Buick Engine & with the 250HP heads & intake manifold will bolt  perfectly onto a 401 , 425, Buick engine Block beautifully   (same manifold & head bolt pattern  )     just different size inlet & exhaust ports. 

 

    

Edited May 11, 2017 by coupekid (see edit history)

[Guest]

25 minutes ago, coupekid said:

actually if you look back    RivNut,  at your statement on page 1 here ..you did say that   "you never heard of what coupekid is talking about "  

infact  other members did  too .. & now your saying.......... "no-one is disputing me"      ?????       and by the way ...all 364, 401 ,425 do have inlet manifold holes spaced out the same....thats why if you buy a complete Buick 1957 engine gasket kit ...it stipulates that the kit suits 364, 401, 425, & that the steel  intake gaskets suit these engines.

 

    

Thank for highlighting this info. It's hard to find this kind of stuff on the Buicks. Now I know when I'm asked if I have a pair of heads for 364 to sell to check with those intake gaskets you spoke of that I will now search out used gaskets for reference to know which cylinder heads I have. No one wants to pay shipping needlessly for incorrect parts if that can be avoided, so Thanx 4 the heads up on this issue!

[coupekid]

Thankyou  2carb40  

 

..thats exactly right  !!  & i have experienced this mishap & do not want anyone else un-educated with this  matter to suffer the same consequences.  cheers to you my friend !!

[Brandon Todd]

5 minutes ago, coupekid said:

Thankyou  2carb40  

 

..thats exactly right  !!  & i have experienced this mishap & do not want anyone else un-educated with this  matter to suffer the same consequences.  cheers to you my friend !!

So What gasket set would i need for a 250 hp engine with a 4 barrel intake? Since the normal sets give you the 300 hp one.

[Brandon Todd]

I called Russ from nailhead Buick today. Not sure if this solves anything or puts fuel on the fire, but he said that all 364 nailheads have the same 4 barrel intake. Casting number 1173313 is what i need, according to him. But he did confirm that only a 364 will work, no other engines. 

[coupekid]

Edited May 11, 2017 by coupekid (see edit history)

[coupekid]

Brandon, ...Russ, said 1173313 will fit & i agree that it will fit ...but the ports are different sizes   !!!   I showed you pic of  the under side of  the 4BBL 1173313 manifold you seek & what Russ, has informed you to buy   here is pic of that manifold top with part # Russ, asked you that would fit ..... under this pic is a pic of the top of the 2BBL  manifold you have on your car right now  with  part # 1173878   go check your manifold on your car & you will see  you have this part #  1173878 on your manifold .      then go back & look at the pics of both manifolds underneath on bottom of page 1 ....there is a major difference in port sizes.... this Russ, guy is about to get you burnt my friend ..when you take your 2bbl manifold off  measure the  inlets ...then when you speak with a seller with 4bbl 1173313 manifold ask them to provide measurement of inlet ports on that manifold...there will be significant difference   !      ask Russ   ..whats the difference between a 364ci in a Special & a 364ci in a Super or Roadmaster ...he will say " there is no difference "    ..then go to your 1957 Buick factory chassis manual under engine specifications  ...

Edited May 9, 2017 by coupekid (see edit history)

[Guest]

6 hours ago, coupekid said:

Brandon, ...Russ, said 1173313 will fit & i agree that it will fit ...but the ports are different sizes   !!!   I showed you pic of  the under side of  the 4BBL 1173313 manifold you seek & what Russ, has informed you to buy   here is pic of that manifold top with part # Russ, asked you that would fit ..... under this pic is a pic of the top of the 2BBL  manifold you have on your car right now  with  part # 1173878   go check your manifold on your car & you will see  you have this part #  1173878 on your manifold .      then go back & look at the pics of both manifolds underneath on bottom of page 1 ....there is a major difference in port sizes.... this Russ, guy is about to get you burnt my friend ..when you take your 2bbl manifold off  measure the  inlets ...then when you speak with a seller with 4bbl 1173313 manifold ask them to provide measurement of inlet ports on that manifold...there will be significant difference   !      ask Russ   ..whats the difference between a 364ci in a Special & a 364ci in a Super or Roadmaster ...he will say " there is no difference "    ..then go to your 1957 Buick factory chassis manual under engine specifications  ...

Ok, while appreciate your info on the difference in the port size on the intakes and heads if on uses the gaskets with the larger holes they will bolt together and work. They won't flow as well as with the larger port heads, maybe! In porting tech the passages optimally should reduce in size anyway on the way to the valves. Granted in this case it would be a step not a taper, but a carbide Burr could take care of that. Russ is not a rip-off burn you guy with no integrity, just for the record! I think those kinds of assumtions should not be put forward about folks unless you've assembled some multiple examples of that behavior. I've dealt with Russ for years and that's not been what I've experienced or heard about him. Please explain so other folks don't get that impression needlessly.  Cuz he deserves better. Thank!

[Brandon Todd]

Im not trying to cause any fuss folks, promise! Im just a newbie who is wanting to upgrade from a 2 barrel! Haha.

Edited May 10, 2017 by Brandon Todd (see edit history)

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Brandon Todd said:

Im not trying to cause any fuss folks, promise! Im just a newbie who is wanting to upgrade from a 2 barrel! Haha.

My post to confront the denegrating comments about Russ were not aimed at you. You have been a gentleman in your postings. Trying to sort out factual info should not involve ego and especially not casting espersions about others in the process who are trying to help with best known info as they know it to be true.

[buick man]

… well guys let's also not forget in one's pursuit to achieve that 300 hp mark it would be wise to note the cam found in the higher compression pistoned Super and R.Master 364's  had a  longer duration profile then that found in the Special lower compression 364's … so just bolting on a 4-bbl manifold onto that low compression 364 is not gonna get ya the grunt of the 300 hp found in the senior engines …. as compression aids in horse power production ...

[Brandon Todd]

Ye

11 minutes ago, buick man said:

… well guys let's also not forget in one's pursuit to achieve that 300 hp mark it would be wise to note the cam found in the higher compression pistoned Super and R.Master 364's  had a  longer duration profile then that found in the Special lower compression 364's … so just bolting on a 4-bbl manifold onto that low compression 364 is not gonna get ya the grunt of the 300 hp found in the senior engines …. as compression aids in horse power production ...

Yeah i understand. And thats ok. Id just like to upgrade from a 2 barrel is all. HP to the max is not a huge worry for me. I just want it to be a little meaner in "muscle" and sound  

[buick man]

… guess the point we be makin here Scottie, is that the efficiency, torque and h.p. one produces is proportional to the necessary individual components working together to achieve that goal … cam, head porting, piston size and crank stroke etc… so put another way in this situation to benefit from the increase fuel flow by bolting on a 4bbl carb, one therefore needs a matched increase capability in air flow capacity as an engine is a breathing creature … the existing low duration cam profile on the low compression 364 will benefit little from the addition of 4bbl setup because it will not be able to breathe sufficiently well enough to benefit from the change over … and this will quickly become apparent at the narrow yet crucial torque band ranges where one would hope to find this benefit …