Roger Frazee

Making the AACA More Appealing to Young People

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57 minutes ago, charlier said:

 

You REALLY need to talk with your parents and both you and them need to talk with their insurance agent/company and you need to do that BEFORE you buy a car. Are you currently a licensed driver listed on your parent's auto policy? If not, that would be the place to start. Find out how much it will cost for you to simply be added to their policy on the cars they own. That cost may surprise/shock both you and your parents. I have two nephew's your age. One is learning to driver now and the other will be doing that early next year. Both nephews parents have spoken with their respective insurance companies and the cost increase for their policies by adding their sons is FAR from peanuts.

 

When it comes to Antique/Classic Insurance there are two BIG things to keep in mind. First there is Driver Eligibility requirements and second there are the Vehicle Usage restrictions. For example, the company I use to insure my Antique Vehicles defines these as follows:

Driver Eligibility

  • All licensed drivers in the household may not have more than 1 moving violation or at-fault accident in the past 3 years. A maximum of 2 per household.
  • An operator with a major violation is ineligible for the program.
  • Licensed drivers must have at least 10 years driving experience in order to be eligible for coverage. Any member without 10 years driving experience must be excluded from the policy (supplemental form required to be signed by insured and excluded driver (s)).
  • Each licensed driver in the household must have a regular use vehicle, which is insured with limits equal to or higher than the limits being applied for on the collectible vehicle. At least one regular use vehicle must be less than 15 years old.
  • All licensed members of the household and any other drivers of the vehicle must be listed on the application.

Vehicle Usage

  • Vehicles are not to be used for:
    • Work/school commutes
    • Regular personal use
    • Business/commercial use
    • Track, racing or timed events of any kind whether competitive or not
    • A substitute for a regular, personal use vehicle
    • Backup transportation
  • Vehicles must be stored in a fully enclosed, locked garage when not in use.

These Driver Eligibility and Vehicle Usage guidelines will vary from company to company you so you need to research this well. For example, I have seen another company that requires just 5 years of driving experience as one of their driver eligibility requirements. Still others fail to mention these requirements at all on their web sites. Once you submit an application to them for coverage these requirements then kick in and you may not be offered coverage.

 

FYI, the reason why antique/classic auto insurance is less expensive is because these vehicles are exposed to less risk (ie not driven daily, driven by more experience drivers with very good driving records and are kept in a locked garage when not in use). The Eligibility and Usage requirements listed above may pose a big challenge for you when seeking this type of coverage. The other thing to keep in mind is that a vehicle on a policy like this will have to be registered/owned in your parent's name(s) and the policy be in their names. That also means they are legally and financially liable should that vehicle be involved in an accident while you are driving it. (BTW, this would be the same if you buy a more modern vehicle as well)

 

Please be advised that I post this information to inform you and others of what you are getting into, Sadly, this information might not seem very encouraging. Personally, I am a firm believer in researching the heck out of things like this. The more research you do, the less surprises you will have and then you can feel confident that you made the best decision possible.

 

Good Luck,

 

Charlie

 

Good to know, lot of useful info here:D

Yeah, I've been an advocate for doing as much research as possible before making major decisions. 

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By the way, It is not mandatory that you insure and old car with a collectable policy.

Maybe buy a car that you could afford to only put liability insurance on and take the chance that if it gets wrecked by someone else's fault it could be repaired and if you wreck it yourself then I guess you eat the loss.

I don't think I had full coverage on any of my cars until I had one with a loan against it.

I don't make a habit of wrecking my own cars. But I guess it could happen.

 

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Hey guys, I am new here but I would like to offer my take on the original post. I feel that our youth today should be included in some fashion. Not all youth (or adults) can afford a classic car nowadays. The prices of these cars today is insane IMHO. What teenager who works at Wal-Mart (or most any minimum wage job) can go out and buy a $10-30K classic car? Even junker classics are bringing stupid money today. I think there should be some ways to include them even if they drive a 1998 Yugo. I don't think it is so much the "car" as it is the friendships and comradery. I also see most of our youth today being obsessed with iPads, cell phones and computers. I believe the percentage of car enthusiasts youth today are very few in numbers. I miss the days when drag racing was hot. I remember spending my weekends at the strip and there were kids/teenagers everywhere. Today?, few to none. Oh well, just my 2 cents worth.

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Almost all the cars I posted were 5,000 or under.  There is stuff out there to have fun with,  it just won't be a tripower equipped 348 60 Chevy Impala 2 door hardtop.  Maybe an early 60's Buick Special, Olds F-85, or Pontiac Lemans.  Even an AMC product or Studebaker could be had pretty darn cheap.  I think I have even seen early 60's Convertibles right around the 5,000 mark in good usable shape.  That's in the Northeast king of the rust belt. I can only imagine what some brush pounding would turn up in the midwest or west coast. 

My first old car wasn't a 1957 Chevy belair hardtop or 1932 Ford,  it was a 1950 Desoto Coupe that needed work.  The second one still wanting something cool like a 57 Chevy,  was a 1956 Olds 88 2 door hardtop.  A nice car overall with plenty of go,  considering Chevy had a 283 and my olds has a 324 Rocket.  I Paid 2500 for it and an army trunk full of Gi Joe Figures. (they were going to be a gift for the guy's son or grandson)  A comparable 57 Chevy would have been close to 10,000 at the time. 

You have to be a little flexible and very persistent.   lots of good cars out their and some as cheap as 2500 in driver shape. 

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It is true that 25 year-old cars can be obtained for $5K or even less.  But, with a few exceptions, they are not suitable as daily transportation; because a $5K 25 year-old car is generally not dependable enough to get a person to work and to the store day in and day out.

 

A car that is ten years old, however, can easily serve as daily transportation and can double as a vehicle for the automotive hobbyist at the same time.  Many young people can't afford two cars.  They don't have the luxury of owning one car for daily transportation and another car for pleasure.  

 

Some have argued that there are other venues, outside of the AACA, where a young person can enjoy his newer-model car.  That's true, but that train of thought does nothing to bring young people into our organization.  

 

 

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4 hours ago, Rocketman_47 said:

Even junker classics are bringing stupid money today

 

That is simply not true in all cases in our present time.  The reason is quite clear to me at age 65.  My friends are mostly a bit older that I , and for the first time, these older guys are SELLING their unfinished cars, due to many reasons.  In the long past that I have been in the hobby, older guys simply said to person who knew of the cars.... "I'll restore it someday, so no, it is not for sale"

 

Something has changed in their thought patterns, and it is spreading very fast in my area.  Word travels fast in the old-guy car network of so and so knows so and so.

 

Massive burdens had been placed on heirs, from these huge piles of mixed up parts,and nothing is tagged...

 

The older guys had older cars, and popularity and interest may still be there, but usually to older guys who have too many already.

 

Be in the right place at the right time, and you can end up with a very special car that most won't touch, if apart or not close to running.

 

..sadly nobody in my area, wants a project old car.  The estate I work for put two 47 48 Ply convertibles out for sale, C/L and Hamb..they were rough but savable and came with a LOT of spares including NOS accessories like lighted hood ornament, bumper gaurds, entire chrome piece on the center f dash,....nobody wanted the pair at 2900 for everything...they finally went for a lowball of 2k

 

maybe it's a problem of spoiled people?  wanting a car that needs no work at all, so they buy a nice Taurus that has no collector value, or hobby following, and never will... IMO

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The mindset has changed though to.  Guys are realizing that unless they are really in love with a particular car,  you can borrow the money up front to buy a better turn key cart,  dump alot more into that project than one of those other turn key cars are and be driving it tomorrow.   We all know it's easy to dump 40 plus thousand into a car that is only worth 20,000 or like model could be bought turn key today for 20,000 that already had the other guy dump 40 G into it.   I had a pretty nice little 48 Plymouth rag top with nice correct interior and top, almost all new chrome and a bunch of nice period accessories.  A ton of mechanical refurbishment done all new tires and brakes,  on the road reliably running and driving with everything working the way it should.  It needed paint but was a pretty nice body.   I struggled for a long time selling it and finally gave into a cash in hand offer of 14,500.  That was below my rock bottom firm price of 15,000.    47-48 Plymouth ragtops seem to fall flat on their face,  no matter how nice they are at 20G. 

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There are simple demographics and changing interests and tastes at work.  In 1970 how many teenage males could 1). Drive a standard transmission.  2) Change the oil in their car.  How may can do it now?

 

Most plain jane four door sedans will eventually become parts cars for the more desirable body styles.  It is inevitable as the pool of guys skilled enough to maintain or restore the cars shrinks.

 

I don't worry about it as the cars are enjoyable to me, and there will also be SOMEBODY else to talk about them, even if there are not LOTS of guys in the hobby.

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34 minutes ago, auburnseeker said:

 47-48 Plymouth ragtops

 

Why are these not really popular or even not well known by early postwar folks?  The dead front view of a dark colored conv, with low split windshield really looks slick to me.  The side window detail is great....but is it the fat-chick rear view that turns people off?  I just can't believe nobody wanted the two here.  Half way between NYC and Boston, so it was not a "unpopulated market" issue,  I did drive the wheels off of a guys 47 woodie..boy, it sure was a sweet driver, ride, handling, gear ratio, you name it.  (Those do OK in popularity as woodies.)

 

I worry about the future of many projects out there...we are a dying breed of people liking those older autos

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Mopars just lag in Popularity behind Ford and Chevy until you hit the finned era.  

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That '60 Hawk  would be the deal for me. V8, Manual trans, & O/D, wow. Kicker would be rust particularly underneath and would need a lift to examine properly. For someone up there to say "rust spots" I would be very concerned.

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9 hours ago, auburnseeker said:

Mopars just lag in Popularity behind Ford and Chevy until you hit the finned era.  

 

As someone who had a 49 2 door special deluxe plymouth foisted on him in HS (thanks Dad!!!) I can tell you it is the styling followed by power plant.  Everybody called it the pumpkin.  Car was 100% reliable, but 55 was just about the top end.

 

The wayfarer roadster and the business coupes have a pretty strong following.   You will probably pay 15k plus for a running wayfarer and 20 plus for a nice one.

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In 1982 I bought a 1952 Plymouth Cambridge coupe with 12 thousand miles on it for 400 bucks. Battleship gray, three on the tree. Great car. Always started even in fifteen below when my dads new Caddy wouldn't fire off. Often wondered what happened to it after I sold it in 1984. Last summer it was at the Elks cruise night in my hometown, now a hotrod, but still with the same guy I sold it to way back when, and yes, he made all if it reversible so it can be put back.

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Club coupe........

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66 GP looks kind of neat and has AC, quite a bit of aftermarket stuff but no 8-lugs so brakes are easy. THM400 transmission. Big question is underbody rust. "Solid Frame" does not bode well for floor pans.

 

No engine picture, be an easy tripower swap.

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As there are a few young men posting here are following along, I thought about being 16. Or 18, and being into vintage cars. I have not read through all 7 pages of posts so far, so I am not sure if my topic has been discussed.

 

I think any vintage car owner, no matter how old, if they have limited mechanical experience, needs a mentor. Old cars that we get attached to, need regular maintenance and attention. Everything in them was designed, in many cases 60, 70 years ago. Or more. The principles of vehicle operations are the same in many instances, just tons of improvements.  Some questionable, mind you. The old parts are bound to wear out. Old work practices are disappearing. I am not sure where I would go in my area for mechanical work on my '53. Except for the internet, here like this forum. There are many helpful people here who are enthusiastic about vintage cars and maintaining them. Inexperienced owners would do  extremely well to have a Big Brother or Big Sister, guide them along in learning how to maintain their old car.

 

I learned out of necessity when I was a teen in the 1980's. I had little money and could only afford worn out, tied cars from

the 70's it seemed. I had no hand tools when i was 16. My father is not mechanically inclined. My older brother who was 18 at the time, was. He had been through 2 years of real actual shop class by then, in high school.  He had a few years up on me in school, so he became my mentor. From 16 to 19 I think we rebuilt 3 car engines, and I completed at least 2 clutch jobs in my old cars. Not to mention every smaller thing that went wrong. We did this in the back yard on the grass with no cover. I distinctly remember laying on a piece of plywood, in a downpour, under my 1974 Pinto, installing a new clutch. I was lucky my big bro guided me when I had questions. I poured a lot of time and money into buying bad cars and having to park them shortly after, due to a major break down. Then I'd work my but off in the kitchen of a local restaurant, to save for parts. Then bust knuckles for a week or two of late nights out in the yard, assembling. School of hard knocks taught me many important skills that fortunately carried me through the rest of my life. I have been acquiring tools for 30 years. All along the way doing my own repairs. From cars to lawn mowers, ATV's, dirt-biles, Motorcycles, Jet-Skis, whatever.

 

Young kids today, (around here) don't have the same opportunities in High School it seems.  The 3 years of shop class that I was able to take gave me skills for life. A real garage that we worked in, fixing each other's cars in High School! That program is long gone from our schools sadly. One could say that new cars today deter people from doing their own work. In many instances yes. However the principles are the same, as I mentioned. I drive newer vehicles yet I still do my own repairs. I try to teach my two sons, who are 18 and 20 how to do things themselves on their cars. Often I bought the parts when they were younger. They did the repair. I stood over their shoulder instructing and guiding them through the task. However I don't believe they'll ever get the experience that I did in shop class.

 

I honestly believe that classic and vintage cars have great potential to allow young generations to learn these skills. They are easier to work on. One can easily get their hands in and around almost any part under the hood of an old car. Old cars are an encyclopedia of experience and skills, waiting to be opened. Learning these skills is extremely rewarding. When you pull up to the store in your old car, people turn their heads. They approach to talk. You'll be pretty proud. Your hours and hours of labor and busted knuckles may be what have kept the car alive. It's very satisfying. You can save thousands and thousands of dollars maintaining your other newer daily driver, car over it's life, by applying the same skills you will have learned, working on your vintage car.

 

Time brings experience. Decades later I look back and have to remind myself how I acquired my mechanical skills. I often forget that the mechanical frustration I experienced when I was 16, makes a repair job way easier at 45. There is no need to shy away from the work or expense needed to keep old cars running. If you have some space to work on them, the desire to want to learn, a little money to spend, and a mentor to guide you along, the sky is the limit. You will meet enthusiasts by joining a local vintage car club. There will be many old guys there who have decades of time and experience. You will hopefully meet someone who would love to feed your enthusiasm and help guide you. The T-shirts I have seen are right, "Old Guys Are Cool." They were 16 in the hey-day of cool cars. If they still have a vintage car today, odds are, they know how to maintain it very well. Get out there and invest some time networking. Meet these silver haired gear heads. Pull all the  info you can from them, respectfully. They are a living library of info and experience. You cannot buy this experience today. You can pay a mechanic $100 an hour to work on you 2012 Ram truck, but odds are he/she has no interest in working on my 1953 Chrysler. I am lucky enough to not need their services. 

 

Here's an related example: My son's 2008 Honda Civic. I got in it with him for the first time in over a year. I heard an awful howling as speed increased. It almost sounded like an exhaust leak. 30 seconds from home I said, "Turn around and go back home. This car has a bad rear wheel bearing." He laughed and thought no, it's tire tire/road noise. Like many at 18, he often thinks he knows better than his father.  We shopped around for new rear hub/bearing assemblies. We saved a ton of money on the two hubs. We installed them at home in the driveway last night. I estimate the repair bill at the Honda dealer would have been $800- $1000 Canadian dollars. We did it for a total cost of $190 Canadian. Now he has some experience and there's extra money saved to buy more parts for my 1953 Chrysler! He's getting it, and probably my rolling tool box too someday. LOL.

 

 

 

 

Edited by keithb7 (see edit history)
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I've just been posting these to show the crowd that says you need atleast 10G to buy an old car and only 80's cars are available at that price, that there are alot of old cars out their for around 5 G or less.  Most guys with a little effort over a couple of years can scrape up 5 G with odd jobs.  Even if you only have 2500 and need to borrow 2500.  You can even do that on a personal loan paying it off as soon as you can.  You can be enjoying any one of these in most cases in a week or two.  You then now have your first old car.  Take care of it,  buy a decent car in the first place and you more than likely won't lose any money on it.  Drive it for a few years and have some fun.  Keep it under cover especially if you live in the Northeast and continue to save/ earn a few extra bucks.  Now you have another 2500,  sell your car for the 5,000 or so you paid,  and buy a nicer 7500 car.  I can bet that most old car guys on this forum didn't start out with a split window corvette, or Packard Roadster.   Mine was that 1950 Desoto club coupe. 

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The kids don't have the real hands on shop class experience today but atleast they have one thing.  You tube has a great base of information on fixing stuff.  Not like shop class but atleast a little bit of direction on what it will take to fix something.  

Maybe if this country gets turned back in the right direction,  they will bring back shop class.  We can cross our fingers.  For now we will just have to help out all the younger guys with questions whenever they ask no matter how simple they may seem.

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10-4 on the you -tube.

 

Let me point out something I learned in life.

I had a business that went thru a mechanic or two.

There are mechanics that have never had any training and there are book learned mechanics.

Most of the book learned guys don't really know much, they think they do and they want to, but it takes a knack that few really have.

Trouble is that the guys with the knack may not be able to read or do math.

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