simhin Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 Gentlemen, Its been a long time since I was on....other cars to play with! Meanwhile back on the Buick, I still have a lot of blue smoke. I have just checked the compression and I have 6 cylinders at 100psi (as close as we can read), number 2 at 90 and number 3 at 95. I'm not sure what they are supposed to be, but that seems fairly close. I still think I have carb issues, it seems to need a lot of choke for a fair few miles, and nearly always needs some choke on. We bought and fitted a repair kit, but have never worked on a Marvel before so we cant be sure of what we've done. can anyone shed and specific Buick light on this? we've tried/considered all the standard tyope issues that you might expect, but wondered if theres anything specific to this model Many thanks simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Engle Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 There are a lot of old threads on 32 marvels. Fuel level in the bowl is critical. The tubes in the heat riser rust through, this could cause your problem as it will draw air or exhaust after the carb preventing a good air fuel mix. The spring loaded venturi plates must work freely and fit the wall properly. Blue smoke is oil. Black is fuel. Bob Engle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 (edited) What weight of oil are you using. When I started driving my Grandfather's car he had gone to 40 wt because it was burning oil (about 2 quarts between changes). I hadn't been out of the city for 11 years so hadn't been driven over about 25 mph. I was working in a GM dealership and one of the tune up men said try a lighter weight oil perhaps the oil rings or the oil drain holes in the pistons are plugged.. Also he suggested that it needed to be driven a little harder. I changed the oil to 30 wt and at the next change went to 20 wt. Also took the car out on the highway for a couple of 50 mile return trips at 45+ mph. By the time the next oil change came around I hadn't added any oil and the blue smoke was gone. I ended driving it another 65,000 miles before having to overhaul the engine for the first time. Edited April 22, 2017 by Guest (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Schramm Posted April 22, 2017 Share Posted April 22, 2017 Blue smoke is oil, black is fuel. Also could be valve stem seals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Engle Posted April 22, 2017 Share Posted April 22, 2017 One other possibility on the blue smoke could be a blocked crankcase breather screen. There is one in the breather tube and there is also a metal plate with louvers in the block between the lifter galley and the passage to the breather. Bob Engle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Engle Posted April 22, 2017 Share Posted April 22, 2017 There are no valve stem seals on 32 Buicks. there is a possibility that the oil line to the cylinder head has been changed to a larger size from the correct 1/8" tubing. This would flow a lot more oil to the cylinder top and allow leakage along the valve stems. Bob Engle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simhin Posted April 23, 2017 Author Share Posted April 23, 2017 Thanks for all your replies. Bob, those last two are the kind of things I suspect are causing me a problem as everything else seems relativly ok.... What do you think to the compression test results? Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Engle Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 Any time compression is not the same on all cylinders the engine will not perform at optimum. However, I don't think your numbers indicate a problem that would cause your running problem. I would check the screen in the breather, and then remove the heat riser above the carb and check for problems on the internal tubes. grease the bottom flange and set it on a smooth surface and fill the tubes with water and see if it leaks into the exhaust side of the riser. If you find a problem, get back to us to talk you through repairs. These old castings can easily be cracked. I would advise that you seal the exhaust side with a freeze plug. Modern gasoline does not need heat to help vaporization. If the tubes are good, you then need to focus on the carb and ignition for your poor running condition. Once you get it running well, get it out and put some cruising miles on it and see if that helps the blue smoke condition. If you have one cylinder problem, it will show on the spark plug. If the plugs have a nice toast color you are in good shape. these cars all do better with regular miles put on them. Bob Engle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simhin Posted April 23, 2017 Author Share Posted April 23, 2017 Bob, The heat riser is not connecting the carb to the exhaust. To my knowledge its never been present. I've done 35 miles in her today and I've been out on about five short trips over the last two weeks, trying stuff out. I do think she has improved. I drove today with no choke on!!! Still got smoke though. Had her up to neary 60 mph in one burst just to see if the carb spat etc but she was fine. I do have a low speed front wobble now, but I put some more air in the tyres to lighten the steering so it could be that. the plugs were all wet and black when I took them out on Friday, plenty of oil in the plug recesses also. I'll check them again tomorrow Regards Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Engle Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 The tubes could still leak air into the engine without going through the carb. I would keep checking the plugs to see if they continue to get oil soaked. I suspect the rings are not well seated from sitting so long. I would keep driving it. Make sure you have oil in the shocks. Bob Engle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Bruce aka First Born Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 Simon, if the '32 head and rocker arms are like the later ones, the oil in the plug recesses is wicking past the threads on the bolts holding the rocker arm shaft stands. Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Engle Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 The 32 Buicks do not have the threaded holes that go into the plug bore. They have a sheet metal sleeve pressed into the plug bore. Bob Engle 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simhin Posted April 25, 2017 Author Share Posted April 25, 2017 New Champion D16's fitted today.. Breather pipe removed and inspected. This just has baffles in it and thats all ok....how do I find the other screen? It did start well and the choke was turned off pretty quick even though I was only running it in the garage... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Engle Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 There should be a screen inside the dome at the top of the breather tube. Then if you remove the breather tube by removing the acorn nut you should be able to look back in the engine and see a louvered plate. If you need to remove this louvered plate, start by removing the lifter covers. In the block between the lifter covers, there is a nut that needs to be removed (7/16" wrench if I recall) and then the louvered plate can be removed. On a side note, once the louvered plate is removed, the shaft that holds the breather tube on can then be screwed out of the block on the breather side. Bob Engle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simhin Posted June 8, 2017 Author Share Posted June 8, 2017 I think I may have found the problem......... I finally took i all to bits and found a chunk of the casting held on by sealant, which had been painted over! Do you think this would impair running? Looks like plan B simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Engle Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 It sure will affect running as you were probably pulling air in that opening bypassing the carb. It would not cause the blue smoke. It would make the engine run very lean. Bob Engle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simhin Posted June 8, 2017 Author Share Posted June 8, 2017 But also mean I needed to run with a lot of choke to get a mixture that would burn... So I have a fix involving a stromberg. I'm going to try that and see how it runs. Then maybe I'll be able to put some proper miles on her and shake the rest down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jscheib Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 Simon, I wonder if Pete Phillips may have on of those in his inventory. Send him a PM. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigersdad Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 Very informative for those of us with '32's. Great thread! Jay El Dorado Hills, CA 1932 8-86 Victoria Travelers Coupe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simhin Posted July 28, 2017 Author Share Posted July 28, 2017 Gentlemen, As an update, I have now fitted a Stromberg 97, which was relatively straightforward. On top of that we have fixed a charging issue and replaced a faulty fan contoller...it seems there is always a list of stuff that needs doing! Anyway, its early days, still shaking down the carb, and I've only done a handful of miles, but the results seem very good. Easy to set up, more power, no choke needed (except for starting) smooth acceleration, big decrease in smoke from the exhaust. I'm hopefully going to give it a longer run over the weekend an see where we are Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simhin Posted September 25, 2017 Author Share Posted September 25, 2017 Bob, I hope you are out there... here red are two photos....the first one shows the red oil filter housing them a pipe up to the gauge and the other that I believe feeds the head.....the second shows the oil pipe to the rockers etc. these are both 7 MM. So is that 5/16's or maybe 1/4. Are these the pipe you referred to earlier? At the front the pipe back into the head is 10 mm i would be really grateful for your opinion here regards simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Engle Posted September 26, 2017 Share Posted September 26, 2017 See the two attached photos. Ignore the plastic line. This goes to an oil pressure gauge separate from the one on the dash gauge cluster. In the final assembly, the metal line to the dash oil pressure line would go in this position. The oil filter is a modern assembly that looks like the original filters, but has a spin filter on the inside. To be correct, the filter should be rotated 180 degrees so the two lines would not cross, but the fittings when tightened ended up as shown. I didn't want to force turn them another 180 degrees to be correct. I have spare 50 series fittings for this if you want them. Bob Engle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simhin Posted September 26, 2017 Author Share Posted September 26, 2017 Bob, thanks for that..do you notice my oil feed in the rocker area? The first piece of pipe out of the head is smaller and is soldered to a bigger diameter tube. It looks like a mod, so do you know which diameter is corrrect? Also , and this is killing u, do you know the thread into the head where the pipe is, and also the thread the other end, feeding the rockers. Regards Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Engle Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 I would not worry about the tube size in the top to the rocker arm shaft. The key is the restricted flow from the engine to the filter. I'll check the fitting size later today. Bob Engle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Engle Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 The fitting at the head is 1/8"NPT 27TPI. The fitting at the rocker shaft stanchion is an odd fitting. It has straight threads with 24 TPI. OD of threads is.437". All the fittings I have from 4 engines have the stepped soldered lines like yours. Small line is 3/16" OD. larger line is 1/4" OD. Bob Engle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simhin Posted September 28, 2017 Author Share Posted September 28, 2017 Bob, once again, thanks for your help https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipNJ4YEm9II24DJC0rCVsHBTumRIC9Yp3vD9p2w4o0bABwslvEt3Ur1_8MuRfkXcDg?key=NU5DOWZlaTdFYWFiNzdqUHQ0SUg1X0x3dmNsbHl3 Have a click on this link and look art the volume of oil dripping from the underside of the rear of the shaft....this happens in a few spots. It looks a lot of oil! https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipMQec20PkKHDYlJih0gjONZNfor8fME5NHPMQ1aZ7iUqObI12se_3OMAPnAvMAOsw?key=TWZPTlJxSXRPcy1HMmRjM2RmWkY1aVFublY4dGl3 and this one too...hover over the image for movement.. Once again, does this look normal to you? Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Engle Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 You sure have a lot of oil in the rocker assembly!! I am a little puzzled as to why there is so much oil flowing onto the push rod ends on many of the push rods? The oil to the hollow rocker arm shaft is restricted by the 1/8" line to the filter and the 1/8" line to the rocker arm shaft. essentially there should be no oil pressure in the rocker arm shaft. At the front of the rocker arm shaft is a 1/4" tube that feeds any excess oil from the rocker arm shaft down to the timing gears at the generator and should prevent any pressure in the shaft. There are open vents on the top of rocker arms and the brass attachment for the front drain tube. I would remove the front drain tube and see that it is open and not restricted. I would also wonder if someone drilled out the rocker arm oil holes to a larger size allowing all that oil flow to the rocker arms. Buick engine design did not require a lot of oil in the upper rocker arm area. There were no seals on the valve stems and a shallow area on the top of the cylinder head. Excess oil will leak out the rocker arm cover and oil around the valves can get through the valve guides. Bob Engle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Bruce aka First Born Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 I agree with Bob. Too much oil. More than needed, anyway. Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simhin Posted October 4, 2017 Author Share Posted October 4, 2017 Good morning, Well we've had another go at it....we have put a sleeve into the oil feed pipe to the rocker shaft to try to reduce the flow of oil. When measuring the output into a cup however, it seemed to fill in exactly the same time! But, the breather hole at the front of the shaft (at the top of the overflow feed to the timing gear) is now not leaking oil, so some volume must have been stemmed. Also the oil presure has gone up from 15psi to 22 psi. Although I dont know how accurate the gauge is... Lastly while we were doing that, w topped up with some straight 50 oil, in an attempt to raise the viscosity in stages, so that might have helped as well. The result?....it might be a little better, but its not exactly significant. We did think it had improved again when it went out for another run, so maybe its going to take a while for it to settle down....Any comments on the oil pressure? Is there some other damage that we may now do? Regards Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simhin Posted October 10, 2017 Author Share Posted October 10, 2017 Me again, Bob, you said... 'There are open vents on the top of rocker arms and the brass attachment for the front drain tube ' Well the front drain tube is clear and fine, but when we look down through the hole in the head, there is a step there that looks like a misalignment between head and block....its very odd! However I dont think its restricting flow.....'open vents on the top of the rocker arms'....we only have a vent in the brass fitting at the end. There is another hole that has a plug in it which is the first mounting point back from the front end. Should this be open? It looks the same as the oil feed to the shaft, tapped hole. I think after this we are going to try to restrict the oil between engine and filter . We did the compression test again, but this time made sure the engine was hot (just finished a run round) 4 cylinders at 110, 3 cylinders at 105, and number 2 at 90 psi...so number 2 is the odd one out, but still not too bad. Next we will do a leak down test. We still have a large pool of oil forming in the spark plug hole recesses. Each one has enough oil in it to come up the body of the plug and make each plug wet. The plugs aren't leaking back from the cylinders, but we cannot see where its coming from. If the studs dont go through the head, and there are pressed shields in there, where is the leak....any help appreciated Lastly...is everyone sure I have the correct head on this engine??!!? Regards Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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