'39 commander upholstery

[fh4ever]

I am starting to look around for seat upholstery and headliner.  For the seats, I know I can have my local folks do it.  But, I would like to know if anyone has had any experience with any of the advertised vendors  that do seat covers and can recommend anyone for a prewar car?    I have some experience putting covers on and I have the hogwire clips and tools to do it.   The same goes for the headliner...any recommendations?    

[SC38dls]

Fh4ever we may be the only ones with 38-39 COMMANDERS on here. I call the people in TN and they do not have patterns for the prewar cars. I checked with 3 local shops and the cheapest I found was $7500 !  As my car is not a show car and I drive it nearly daily (when it is running) and the fact I can not afford it. Plus I I want to keep my better half happy I better not even think of spending that kind of money on it, I'm doing it myself. It is serviceable but certainly not professional. So far I have about $350 in the project. $50 for a used sewing machine, $250 material, $50 in needles, thread and roping. That's enough material to do front, back and all 4 doors. 

Edited April 17, 2017 by SC38DLS (see edit history)

[Spinneyhill]

I think in the Technical forum there is or are threads on upholstery. The expert is Trimacar. I think the main thing he says is to NOT use foam coz it collapses after a while.

[fh4ever]

I had thought about getting the sewing machine and maybe give it a try too.  There is a distributor here locally for all the supplies so I don't have to go to upholstery shops and pay mark-up prices. My seats  dont have to be show quality, and it will probably be vinyl so they can be cleaned up easily.    I found Triamcars posting. 

I see you have seat belts ...and I was wondering what is that chrome hook on the side of the bench seat?  I have that too but no clue what it is for.  

 

[SC38dls]

It is the release for the seat to move. The tracks have a long bar between them with gears on each end that merge with the tracks. Mine has about 3 inches of movement. The only place I was able to put the seat belt was at the floor near the door post and they stop the seats from moving. I set the seat where I needed it before I put the belts in.  I like shoulder belts and my wife would not ride in it without them. They work pretty well and came out of a military hummer for $40 or less ( you get 2 belts plus mounting hardware) if I remember correctly. If you need the link I think I still have it 

[r1lark]

1 hour ago, fh4ever said:

 I found Triamcars posting. 

 

Hi fh4ever, can you post the link to trimacar's thread on doing upholstery? Thanks!

[fh4ever]

r1lark....this is what I saw and it has his email...its an older post but its a start....

 

forums.aaca.org/topic/196171-need-upholstery-in-2013/#comment-994246

[Spinneyhill]

If you buy second hand seat belts make sure they have been "used" for their design purpose. They will be stretched and compromised.

[SC38dls]

The hummer seat belts are brand new surplus. I would not recommend ever using second hand seat belts. Safety is not somewhere to save a few bucks. 

[trimacar]

If you have specific questions, I'd be glad to answer them.  Upholstery isn't complicated, just takes time and patience, and knowing a few little tricks. 

 

Yes, I'm anti-foam in antique cars.  Foam that you can buy these days doesn't have the additive in it to give it long life, and wholesalers sell "8 year foam" and "10 year foam" and such.  This is great for our throw away furniture, but not good in an antique car.  The foam will literally start to evaporate and come to pieces.  Look under your Lazy-boy at all the little foam specks.  Cotton, jute, horsehair, rubberized horsehair....there are good materials to use that closely approximate the original.

 

I've been asked to modify seat belts and won't do it, from a liability standpoint.  The subject of installing seat belts in a car not designed for them has been discussed many times on the forum.  I believe they serve a good purpose of keeping the driver in place to control the car, in minor accidents or situations, but I further believe that they can do more harm than good in certain serious crashes.  A lot depends on thought put in to installing them, and how the belts and seat are anchored.  I will say that very few people put shoulder harnesses in old cars, that's an interesting installation.

[fh4ever]

hi trimacar,  is there anyone out there that has patterns/can make and sells seat covers and headliners for the older stuff ('39 commander)?  If not, what are your recommendations for a one time use sewing machine, what to look for , features, where too buy, etc.  This is not a show car...its a survivor....just need it covered up inexpensively ...and your thoughts on the material for a prewar car?  I think I want vinyl for ease of cleaning.  

[SC38dls]

I had no idea what I was doing or what machine to buy. I went on eBay and bought a $50 Sears machine. It works well on the cloth material I used. Material was made for auto/commercial use what ever that means. The hardest part was making the rope and getting a tight fit on it. I ended up modifying the shoe (wild guess as to that name) so I could get the rope closer to the needle. I also pinned all the roping before starting the sewing. Pins make it easier to control it all.  

I practiced on scrap material for about 20 minutes and said what the heck go for it.  Front is finished. Starting back next then doors. Again not show or professional quality but very serviceable. Try it have fun it is not hard as long as you accept it not being perfect. 

[Guest]

If you are desperate a zipper foot works for sewing windlace and piping, that and a denim needle.

[fh4ever]

My wife and I sewed some vinyl sun visors 30 years ago with her sewing machine and it never sewed right again....so I better not even mention to use the one she has now.  I was thinking if I could buy a real upholstery sewing machine cheap enough, I would do that. 

[Cowtown Commander]

My 38 Coupe came had an after market seat cover on the drivers side and the passenger cover and bottom cover were in the box with other spares.  The drivers side cover was discarded when the upholstery was redone but I believe the other two pieces are in the spare parts.  It was a light denim material - your welcome to them if you pay the postage.  I would think the bottom would fit  your car and could be used as a pattern if nothing else.

 

i went to the largest upholstery wholesaler in our area, looked at the material and carpet samples and picked out the seat material that came the closest to matching my original and luckily for me it was in a batch of obsolete material that the wholesaler had heavily discounted.  I picked out the carpet I wanted and let the upholstery shop buy that as they got a better price than me.

 

Rather than buy a sewing machine have you thought of seeing if you could get a upholstery shop to just make the covers with material you provide?

 

[fh4ever]

hey SC38DLS....I looked at my "chrome hook"...and it is what you say...I never knew that !I   I had no idea it moved!  After 32 years, I am still learning about this car!

Cowtown ,,,I might take you up on your offer but not just yet.  Still looking around at the options.  I do plan on taking the seats to a shop I have used and they are cheaper than anybody else ...but still fearful it will be way more than what I want to put in it.  I will approach them too, to see if they would just sew them up and let me put them on.   I have done interiors, sculptured door panels, kick panels, headliners, installed purchased seat covers, but I have never sewn anything.        

[trimacar]

On ‎4‎/‎18‎/‎2017 at 5:48 PM, fh4ever said:

hi trimacar,  is there anyone out there that has patterns/can make and sells seat covers and headliners for the older stuff ('39 commander)?  If not, what are your recommendations for a one time use sewing machine, what to look for , features, where too buy, etc.  This is not a show car...its a survivor....just need it covered up inexpensively ...and your thoughts on the material for a prewar car?  I think I want vinyl for ease of cleaning.  

 I'm not aware of anyone making Commander interior parts.  It's easy if you have a Ford or GM product, as there are kits available.

 

Sewing through numerous layers of fabric or vinyl is tough on a sewing machine, so it's hard to tell you what a "one use" machine would be.  To do upholstery correctly, one needs a heavy duty walking foot machine, and the appropriate feet for it.  For example, the rope, or welting, that is mentioned, there are specific feet that attach to the machine to make that and keep it tight.  If I were an amateur and serious about doing just one car, I'd find a sewing machine shop that would sell me a used walking foot machine, with an agreement to buy it back a couple of months later for a few hundred dollars less than what was paid.  That, or offer to rent for a few hundred dollars.  Yes, it's a loss, but still less expensive than having someone else do it for you.  I know many people have used home sewing machines to put interiors together, and that's fine, but the walking foot machine will make your life much easier and make a nicer job.

 

As far as material, buy the best material you can afford that's MADE for AUTOMOTIVE USE!  I constantly read of people going to local fabric stores, and bragging that they saved so much money......but they're buying inferior products as far as automotive use goes.  Not only does the material need to be UV resistant, but it also has to be made to resist wear from SLIDING on it, as opposed to SITTING on furniture fabric.

 

If you want black vinyl, the best I've found is one of the Model T suppliers that makes kits, they'll sell you their vinyl.  It's really nice stuff, expensive at around $20 a yard, but if you're saving all that labor (which is the huge portion of an upholstery job) why skimp on materials?  I hate working with vinyl, but can tolerate this stuff.....I've used it mainly in early airplane applications (think Jenny), as it closely approximates the original material for seats and combing (the piece which pads the cowl of an airplane).

 

Any other questions let me know.  Advice is free....and I'm doing a couple more cars that I've committed to, then won't be working on cars other than my own...guess I'm retiring the second time!

[fh4ever]

how can I tell what the original interior color  (seats and particularly the headliner) is suppose to be on the 1939 commander?   is there a tag on the vehicle somewhere?   Best I can tell from the old fabric is it might have been light tan or maybe even gray.  I am also curious how is the headliner installed or fastened on the sides above the doors?  It appears it goes under a metal strip with teeth along with the door beading?   who is the best place for purchasing headliners kits?   

[SC38dls]

The only way I could find the original color was from a piece from the back seat when I took it out. As far as the head liner I have no idea as mine is in very good shape and the interior shop wanted $1200 to replace it on top of the $7000 for the seats and doors.  I could not/would not afford it for a daily driver non show car. I plan on doing the doors in the next week or so and will let you know how the door material is attached. That is assuming a 38 is the same as the 39.  

Dave S 

[fh4ever]

sc38dls...did you get your driveshaft replaced?   My headliner is almost non existent, just some remnants left under the trim but they are almost dust.  I was thinking of leaving the headliner out completely...leaving the rat-rod feel on the inside.  But I think I want to put one in just to make it a little cleaner on the inside so the wife wont mind riding in it.  Keep in mind, I am not painting anything...If I do the headliner, seat covers, and door panels, then the dash and trim might stand out as being rusty which they almost are.  But so what...the goal was to keep costs down and leave everything original as possible... even the rust.  Like you, i am not putting that kind of money into someone else doing it.  Looks like I should be able to buy a headliner for a few hundred and put it in myself.   The headliner gets nailed to a tack strip that is under the window trim...so my thoughts are get the headliner in before I finish installing the glass so it will be much easier to drive the tacks in while the glass is out.  Just not real sure how the headliner goes under the metal strip above the door openings. looks like the headliner should have cardboard sewn to it on the sides to slip under this metal strip...but I do not see any cardboard left on mine.  I hope someone knows how this is suppose to be ...or when I start contacting suppliers they can tell me.    

  

[SC38dls]

Fh4 I did get the drive shaft done. The hard part was the new yokes are laser cut for the grooves and the trans and pinion shafts are close but no cigar cut from 1938. So each groove and spline had to be hand filed and then test fitted until all matched up to fit.  That was a lot of filing. Finished last Wednesday and have driven it a few times. It runs much smoother than before and does not have the vibration or rumble anymore. The new shaft is lighter and a little smaller in diameter but works well 

Dave S 

[Spinneyhill]

Can you get the build sheet? It might have an upholstery code that will tell you what fabric it was and the colour?

 

I think they usually fade from whatever colour they were to a light tan or dark beige.

[Cowtown Commander]

I got the build sheet for my 1938 Coupe from the museum and there is not much information on it - especially regarding interior.  I ordered my head liner and side panels fron Rene at Southeast Studebaker.  Excellent quality, and the windlace and windlace like piece that joins the side panels to the headliner were exceptional.

i see that there are two vendors that advertise headliners on e-bay for $229.99 one in Keller TX and one in CA. They claim to have them in stock but bet they do some sort of quick production.  I have talked to the folks in Keller at a local car show and they seem like nice folks but don't know anything about their work.  Rene's quality was outstanding and pricing was not all that much more than the e-Bayers but I exspect he will have a longer lead time.  

 

I don't know how much different the 4 door headliner is from the coupe - I exspect that it longer but the head liner does not go around the rear window in the Coupe - there is a mohair covered fiber board that goes around the window and buts up to the headliner.  That butt joint is covered by the windlce like material.  I'd ask lots of questions to see what all you are getting.

[fh4ever]

I had wondered about a build sheet but did not know where to go to get it. 

For the headliner, I did not try SE Studebaker as they did not list the '39...but it sounds like they could supply it.  I can contact them too.   I have been looking at Loga Enterprise.  Anyone use them before?   They seem to have a lot of interior items.  There is a covered board at the back glass.... and being a 4 door, there is a covered board on the B pillar too.  I do need to make sure I get enough material for these. 

SC38DLS...how is your door panels coming?  any pics? 

 

[Cowtown Commander]

I was sorting some old photos yesterday and ran across a photo I took at Studebaker International in May of 2016 at the South Bend location and at that time they had a headliner marked for a 38 President in an opened clear plastic bag for  for $95.  Since there is no difference between the Commander and President bodies from the firewall back it would work on a Commander but the key would be if was for a 4 door and if the 38 & 39 interchange (since they have the same body she'll I would guess that they do) might be worth a phone call to South Bend.

Ernie is at most of the national meets and is a super nice guy.

I can send picture to you if I had your e-mail.  PM me and I'll send it.

 

 

[SC38dls]

Fh4ever. Life got in the way on the door panels. Hope to start them next week. Also need to figure out why the drivers side rear door window only goes half way down. The passenger side rear goes all the way down. My riding buddy has to use the rear vent window. 

[fh4ever]

ha ha ha....so cute .  these cars had a lot of room in the back seat for the passenger...I mean pooch!!

Now your vent window rubber looks in great shape..is it the original?  or was it replaced?   I am holding off installing the new vent window glass....I think I would destroy the rubber removing the window assembly.  I am under the impression this rubber is not available.  Can you post a pic of your existing door panels?   I want to see if it has the decorative metal rods and the black "carpet " at the bottom.    

cowtown...PM sent

so it doesn't get buried in previous posts, I will ask again......anyone use Loga enterprises headliners?   

 

[Spinneyhill]

http://www.collectorcarads.com/Studebaker-Commander/56325

This one shows seams across the doors but no fancy metal or carpet on the door. The '39 was sharpened up a bit with the trim, but it is mostly the same other than the front clip and front suspension (and the OD if it has it).

[studeboy]

One place to be cautious about getting a headline from is SMS fabrics. They made a headliner for my 1940 using their pattern. The headliner had one of the roof stays sewn in the wrong place I had to move the stay and it didn't fit right. I couldn't send the liner back because I had it for 3 years waiting while the car was in the paint shop. I think their pattern was for a coupe and not a 4 door.

[SC38dls]

Fh4ever. The window rubber is all new. All the paper work is in a storage box as we had to downsize due to my back.  I think it was from Studebaker international but  I was buying so many parts from different places I could be wrong.  We did rear windows, windshield & glass, 4 vents, hood vent, and front sides. Did not touch rear sides. Below are pics of drivers door. You can see the by they need to be updated 

[fh4ever]

some difference in the '38 and '39.  here is my removed front door panel...black "carpet" goes to the bottom...notice the metal decorative rods....I am going to have to make the hardboard backing too.    Yours has fabric around the top of the door...mine has the metal trim covering the window frame...no fabric .  

here is the rear door... a little better shape

 

Studeboy...I know what you mean ....waiting a while before using parts....even rebuilt things like transmissions and rear ends ....I explain to them it might a year before I can test the tranny or rear end....and they seem to understand...so far no issue with rebuilt components but you always wonder if they will warranty it after a year or two.    So SMS is out, still leaning towards Loga, after all, they appear to be stude people.

 

 

[rbk]

Ernie Loga is a long time Studebaker vendor and a good honest man.

I have dealt with him for years and recommended him to other and all were happy.

http://www.studebakervendors.com/loga/index.htm

Robert Kapteyn

[studeboy]

Quote

 

I had rear carpets made for my 1928 dictator by Loga unfortunately I had a bad experience with no resolution. Loga had me ship him the old carpet so he could match the color. I had already sent him a paper pattern. He finally got the carpets done after  over a year. The original carpets are grey to match the dove grey on the exterior. When I got the carpets they were brown not even close to the original color. After that wait I got what ever carpet he had in stock. There was no resolution. I got what I got. They weren't cheap either, which i wouldn't mind if they were the right stuff. 

I guess I just don't know the right people to get good work done.

[SC38dls]

Robert, Loda had been recommended to me but when I contacted him I was told he did not have patterns for prewar cars.  Maybe I just misunderstood. You have always come thru with parts or good recommendations if you didn't have a part in the past, so I will check again for my doors.  

Studeboy, maybe an isolated instance. Hopefully that won't happen to you again. 

Dave S 

[Buffalowed Bill]

Personally I don't know why anyone would discount SMS, because someone says that one pattern was bad. I have used them several times, but exclusively for replication of the original material. Their ability to replicate original material is as good as I have found. IMHO if you automatically discount these people from your search you are really doing yourself a disservice! The only definitive course of action that I see, coming out of your thread, seems to be to be to take "Cowboy Commander" up on his offer to send you what he has, and compare it to what you have, then solicit samples from multiple sources and make the comparison yourself. I think that you already know what ain't  out there. I think that it's time to use what is available. Your chance of getting a one stop shopping opportunity on this one is about as close to nonexistent as it gets!

[Pastor Matt]

 I have a 38 Studebaker finishing the interior now so excited about it… Trying to find some help from some people who may have a 38 Studebaker ....  can't figure out how the seat adjuster works for the front seat hoping someone can help… Also cannot find a rear vent window seals it anywhere for 38 does anyone have any ideas what would work? 

[SC38dls]

3 hours ago, Pastor Matt said:

 I have a 38 Studebaker finishing the interior now so excited about it… Trying to find some help from some people who may have a 38 Studebaker ....  can't figure out how the seat adjuster works for the front seat hoping someone can help… Also cannot find a rear vent window seals it anywhere for 38 does anyone have any ideas what would work? 

If the 38 rear vent seals are unavailable does any one know what other years might fit?  The 37 looks similar why do all of the sites say they won't fit a 38 ? Was there that much of a change ?  

[Aussi John 1]

I have a roll of material, I am told it is mohair, but it may be velour, it is a  gold brown color.

 

I have not seen it as I am in Australia. It is a large roll, I don't know how many yards are in the roll, but it would be more than enough to upholster a large car.

 

It can be viewed  and bought at Bill Oliver's Studebaker Parts & Service at 1440W .14th Street Long Beach CA 90813. Phone (562) 435 3782 /Fax(562) 436 9940

 

 I am only asking $100.00 US for it.

 

If you need any more details please talk to Bill Oliver.

[fh4ever]

thanks for the info Aussi John 1, However, I think I will be going a different route.  

Pastor Matt, if you find the rear vent seals, let me know.  

[Pastor Matt]

3 minutes ago, fh4ever said:

thanks for the info Aussi John 1, However, I think I will be going a different route.  

Pastor Matt, if you find the rear vent seals, let me know.  

 

Will do... it is like searching for the holy grail:-)