Dodge Brothers?

[F&J]

Took these today at a friends place.  He says it's a rare 1927.  I say no way 

 

My knowledge is very good on Ply/DeS of 28-30 years, but never studied Dodge.

 

I based my guess of age on 28-30 Ply/DeS stuff that I do know.   That front fender came out in 28 on the new Plymouth, called the Chrysler AirWing fender.  This one has the early version seen on 28 Ply, and early to mid 29 Ply and Desoto.  Then in late production of at least Model K Desoto, the fender when viewed from the side, was thicker above the edge bead, and looked a tiny bit beefier.

 

The Ply and DeS never got the thick sides on the radiator shell until model year 1930

 

This truck has steering control levers that date from Ply/DeS starting in 28.

 

Hubcap size seems more 29/30 compared to 28 on Mopar car models?

 

I say it must be 29 at earliest, to perhaps early 31.   Basically I think 29-30 as my closest guess.

 

What say the DB  experts?   

 

 

...and does it have a Model name or model letter?   Sorry, I forgot to get the engine stamped number on the 4 cyl.

 

also, he says "no visor", but I say they tossed it when they nailed new covering on the roof?  I think it should have one.

 

.

[keiser31]

Looks to be a 1931 to me.

[F&J]

2 minutes ago, keiser31 said:

Looks to be a 1931 to me.

 

If I get him to give me the engine stamped serial number, do you have a book to tell what year the engine is? 

 

I was almost begging him to let me get this one fixed up for the road, instead of the really rotted incomplete 34 Ford pickup he wants me to fix for him.  This Dodge sat in a barn most of it's life until he got it from another DB collector friend over 10 years ago....sitting outside since, so "it's returning to the earth" under those tarps.   

[30DodgePanel]

31 & 32 are the only two years it could be based on the radiator emblem, radiator cap and no visor alone. The frame# and engine# will help validate further..

 

Front bumper and hubcaps suggest it's a highly sought after 1/2 ton model. Very curious to see the rest of the truck to determine the exact weight rating it falls under.

Could be a 1 1/2 too. See if there's a weight rating tag under the dash - above the floorboard area in the center..

 

109" wheelbase is 1/2 ton

Serial # should be riveted to the firewall - engine bay side.

 

Engine # passenger side front or rear of block depending on model.

Frame # drivers side outer frame rail just in front of the front axle.

Edited April 12, 2017 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[F&J]

1 hour ago, 30DodgePanel said:

31 & 32 are the only two years it could be based on the radiator emblem, radiator cap and no visor alone. The frame# and engine# will help validate further..

 

Front bumper and hubcaps suggest it's a highly sought after 1/2 ton model. Very curious to see the rest of the truck to determine the exact weight rating it falls under.

Could be a 1 1/2 too. See if there's a weight rating tag under the dash - above the floorboard area in the center..

 

109" wheelbase is 1/2 ton

Serial # should be riveted to the firewall - engine bay side.

 

Engine # passenger side front or rear of block depending on model.

Frame # drivers side outer frame rail just in front of the front axle.

 

 

I recall him saying he measured the WB at 108, so that is just a tape measure so it must be the 109 you mentioned.

 

It's too small and it's more "car like" to be 1.5 ton.  I'm sure of that.

 

So it never had a visor?

 

Serial number:  He's 70, and maybe he forgot from checking years ago, but he told me there was a number on some crossmember that he said made it a 1927 (he pointed to inside the cab when he said it)  

 

I will get him to find the real frame side number, and get the engine stamped number which is very clear enough to read when I saw it today.

 

.I'd like to see him do something with this truck before it's too late.  When I suggested to fix the Dodge instead of the 34 Ford pickup, he said the Ford is better for: "he wanted something to run around with".  The Ford he planned on a 1950s style hotrod to make it work in todays speeds.  My thought later today was if we just put an overdrive transmission in this Dodge, why would that not make for something nice to drive on secondary roads?  As you know, it has factory hyd brakes, so it should stop fine and be safe.

 

.Thanks for the replies, both you and Keiser   

 

.

[keiser31]

No visor. It looks like a 1/2 ton to me.

[F&J]

10 minutes ago, keiser31 said:

No visor. It looks like a 1/2 ton to me.

 

 

So if it is a 31/32 Dodge 4 cylinder original engine, how does it compare to a 31/32 Plymouth 4 as far as road power?  

 

I ask because I owned and drove a 32 PB conv for a few years and the power was fine.  It just needed 4 or 5 more MPH at it's sweet spot of cruising RPM.  If I had done a very minor rear end gear change, I would still own it today.

 

.

[keiser31]

I would imagine that they would have the same performance.

[30DodgePanel]

http://www.t137.com/registry/help/partspages/SerialNumberGuide1920-57/slide002.html

 

UF-10 is 4 cylinder 1/2 ton

F-10 is 6 cylinder 1/2 ton

 

The link clearly shows the serial # ranges from 8900001 -9242745 . Again, the serial # tag will be inside engine compartment on the firewall. That alone will pinpoint the range

[F&J]

55 minutes ago, 30DodgePanel said:

http://www.t137.com/registry/help/partspages/SerialNumberGuide1920-57/slide002.html

 

UF-10 is 4 cylinder 1/2 ton

F-10 is 6 cylinder 1/2 ton

 

The link clearly shows the serial # ranges from 8900001 -9242745 . Again, the serial # tag will be inside engine compartment on the firewall. That alone will pinpoint the range

 

I looked at that page.  I will call him to get the numbers, but will it be the engine number that could narrow down the exact single year ?

From what I read, some numbers narrow it to one year like 1930, but the others are two years of possible build dates?

 

or maybe I should find out if there would be any small difference between the 31 and 32?

 

.

[30DodgePanel]

The build card is the ultimate source for proper ID, but if that's not an option,  then the info has to be pulled from several data points and several types of original literature...

Not sure if the Chrysler museum are still providing build cards so a good portion of homework may need to be applied to nail it down.

 

Keep in mind you're talking about the "lost years" of the DB trucks... (28-32)

The more info you can find out,  the more answers we can provide.

 

 

BTW, you probably won't be able to tell the difference between 1931 and 32 based of accessories or body style - I believe the accessories and bodies were virtually the same for those two years... Definitely not a 1930 or before, and John is correct, 31/32 did not come with visors... It may have been produced in 1930 ,,say after July 1930,, but that would still make it a 31 year model at minimum.

 

Edited April 13, 2017 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[F&J]

On ‎4‎/‎13‎/‎2017 at 0:44 PM, 30DodgePanel said:

Again, the serial # tag will be inside engine compartment on the firewall.

  He showed up today, but never wrote the numbers down.  He took pics and he borrowed my magnifier here, to try to see the numbers in the pictures.

 

First he said it was an 8 million number for sure, and from just memory said "8,006,561",  then went to get the camera, and looking at the pic, he says "800,862"   It is on a tag on the left firewall,  So we know he read it wrong.

 

Then he says the Silver Dome motor picture says UT 22012

 

I guess I will need to look myself if I can find time.

.

[30DodgePanel]

The engine tells us it is a UF10 for sure...

Serial tag should read between 8,000,001 to 8,007,264.

More than like the 8 mill number range that he provided puts it in the late 31 early 32 production range. My guess is 32 simply because how late it is in the sequence assuming it's 8,006,561.

 

The other number we know was incorrect because it doesn't have enough digits. If we are to assume he meant millions then 8,008,620  would put it over the realm of possibilities and no such number produced....

 

Definitely need the exact number but at least we have the model nailed down now.

Edited April 25, 2017 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[ArticiferTom]

My guess is late '30 . The UT engine makes it same as Ply U spec wise . Also I believe Sn in wrong should be seven digits . The easiest way to date is look at the casting date of engine ,driver side under starter,  was build a month or two later  . Type headlights do not look like Guide Twilights they changed to in '31.

  Yes can still get build cards . Got mine last year .

[keiser31]

They look like 1930 DeSoto headlamps/bezels....

Edited April 25, 2017 by keiser31 (see edit history)

[ArticiferTom]

Yeah' think early ones were made by Depress or called Depressed headlight .

[keiser31]

12 minutes ago, ArticiferTom said:

Yeah' think early ones were made by Depress or called Depressed headlight .

Depress Beam.

[30DodgePanel]

CM Hall was the maker of the depressed lenses btw...

 

Type 2 filament depressed beams were definitely used on 31 & 32 models. I'll post scans in my next post in order to back up my claim.  Ross Roy salesman booklet for EVERY model produced dated 11/01/1930 to 10/01/1931 probably about 800 pages thick if anyone needs the reading practice... Were some replaced with Guide Twilights ? More than likely since Guides were more readily available on other makes and models of vehicles.

The ZUF-10, RUF-10, XUF-10, NUF-10, VUF-10 were all supplied with depressed beams from late 1930- late 31 (31 & 32 models) according to factory literature supplied to dealers.

 

Sorry but, one cannot tell the year of the truck based on the headlights. Very easy to change headlights but we cannot rewrite historical documentation gents.

 

The depressed beams on the truck on topic are correct for 30, 31 and 32 models....

 

 

Edited April 26, 2017 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[30DodgePanel]

Art,

  is this your truck ? Notice on the second scan upper right corner under headlights.

Also, notice the date in bottom left corner of first scan. Again, this was true for all 30,31 & 32 models.

 

If you ever need more info, I'd be happy to share.. just let me know what you're looking for and I'd be happy to scan and email or pm what you need.

 

 

Edited April 26, 2017 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[ArticiferTom]

11 hours ago, 30DodgePanel said:

CM Hall was the maker of the depressed lenses btw...

 

Type 2 filament depressed beams were definitely used on 31 & 32 models. I'll post scans in my next post in order to back up my claim.  Ross Roy salesman booklet for EVERY model produced dated 11/01/1930 to 10/01/1931 probably about 800 pages thick if anyone needs the reading practice... Were some replaced with Guide Twilights ? More than likely since Guides were more readily available on other makes and models of vehicles.

The ZUF-10, RUF-10, XUF-10, NUF-10, VUF-10 were all supplied with depressed beams from late 1930- late 31 (31 & 32 models) according to factory literature supplied to dealers.

 

Sorry but, one cannot tell the year of the truck based on the headlights. Very easy to change headlights but we cannot rewrite historical documentation gents.

 

The depressed beams on the truck on topic are correct for 30, 31 and 32 models....

 

 

Love that book 30DodogePanel . Can you send me a zoom shoot of that back and any front pics you have of UF-10's .

          I some what agree as Graham certainly could have changed thing up especially on special order or lesser made units . But I attached a copy from the DB Master Parts catalog . It states Twilight used after 8002296 . The Guide and C.M.Hall must both been considered depress beam dual filament type .        DB MAster.pdf

[30DodgePanel]

5 hours ago, ArticiferTom said:

Love that book 30DodogePanel . Can you send me a zoom shoot of that back and any front pics you have of UF-10's .

          I some what agree as Graham certainly could have changed thing up especially on special order or lesser made units . But I attached a copy from the DB Master Parts catalog . It states Twilight used after 8002296 . The Guide and C.M.Hall must both been considered depress beam dual filament type .        DB MAster.pdf

 

Interesting,,, definitely need to research this further..

 

Send me your email in PM and I'll scan them when I get home tonight.

[F&J]

17 hours ago, 30DodgePanel said:

The depressed beams on the truck on topic are correct for 30, 31 and 32 models....

 

 

Well, any info is good at this point.

 

I am to the point of almost harassing him to find better shelter for this 31-32 Dodge.  It's in darn good shape for the climate here, and the age, and the fact that many barn finds trucks here are usually smashed everywhere, and have many missing or wrong parts.

 

He has let it sit under plastic for about ten years.

 

he shows up here often, and I keep showing him the similar aged cars and trucks I work on for people, and have been telling him he is missing out on being able go for rides in it with minimal work.  He claimed he wanted a nice restoration, but that will never happen.  If we drag it here, do brakes, wiring, fuel system, etc... fix the running boards...and then start using the darn thing  

 

.

[ArticiferTom]

I total agree !!

[30DodgePanel]

I stand corrected in regards to my comment in post#13.... Serial #'s actually went up to 8,099,999 according to confidential bulletin info dated Sept 3 1930 for 31 & 32 models to come

NOTE*** (FOR DETROIT BUILT TRUCKS)

 

 

Edited April 27, 2017 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[F&J]

9 hours ago, 30DodgePanel said:

I stand corrected in regards to my comment in post#13.... Serial #'s actually went up to 8,099,999 according to confidential bulletin info dated Sept 3 1930 for 31 & 32 models to come

 

Great info that will come in handy if that serial number really has the 8, rather than a 6 like was questioned. 

 

The guy is out of State for a week, but I will get the exact serial number and post it then.

 

I will ask him to look at the rear edge of the running board splash aprons to see if they have holes to indicate if it had rear fenders like a pickup.  I think he once said it had a specialty type commercial body, but I can ask the elderly Dodge collector/guru who once owned this truck.

 

I doubt we could find pickup rear fenders, as they look based on the same stampings of Ply/DeS roadster/coupe rear fenders.  I know how difficult it was for me to find those even 40-45 years ago.

 

.

[30DodgePanel]

Any updates ?

 

[F&J]

11 minutes ago, 30DodgePanel said:

Any updates ?

 

Yes, He has been working with me for two weeks cleaning out for an estate.  I bought a collection of 34 LaSalles, he got the contract to clean out the rest of mixed make parts, in lieu of fixing, cleaning the barn.   I was riding him about getting it running/driving before that.  He pulled the head, I don't understand why, but all valves and pistons look fine.  He has a new battery, but needs an exhaust pipe before starting it.  I think he found a pipe in the barn that will work for now.

 

Oh, and he found a MINT gas tank in the barn, I looked in with a mirror in bright sun...it is perfect...for is Dodge.

 

He lost a thin spring on fuel pump and came over to borrow gasket punches to do a new diaphragm...I looked at the pump, and said hang on, I know I just saw a small pump..

 

Lol, good to go. Two days ago he calls to ask if I can find order info for Crestline DODGE STORY that Friend Kenny had showed him, and the big ID book called Standard Catalog of US cars that I showed him...I found them on ebay and they are coming in soon. 

 

He is tied up till this weekend with finishing the barn sweep, so it will run very soon.

I will let him know some guy on AACA is WAITING