'39 commander - what was this?

[fh4ever]

can anyone tell me what this mangled piece of tubing was at one time?   chassis catalog says it is a carburetor drain?  where does it go to (I see an empty pipe clamp down on the oil pump) if it was a drain, did it have a valve on it?  

 

[Spinneyhill]

It is as the book says. Mine has a ball in the bottom end, held in place by the end being squashed flat. The ball is sucked up by engine vacuum and blocks the tube when the engine is running. If you flood it, the excess fuel runs out that tube onto the floor.

[fh4ever]

Thanks spinneyhill....I thought that is what it might have been ...I never heard of such a thing on a car before.  I remember from years ago, on another car that had issues starting, you could pull the air cleaner off and look down in the carb...and you could see the fuel in the bottom of the manifold from being flooded.  I suppose Studebaker has seen this problem before and this was their fix.  I guess I will leave mine as is, but it would be nice to find one in good shape and put it back on...I think its an interesting piece of 30's technology!

do you have any idea where the ball is?  is it at the top or at the bottom?  if it is at the top in the brass fitting, I might be able to replace the tubing.       

[studeboy]

The ball bearing goes in the end of the tube. I rebuilt mine with a new tube when I rebuilt my 1940 commander.Not to difficult to do.

[fh4ever]

where did you get the parts?  is there a fitting at the bottom that holds the ball?  

[Spinneyhill]

1 hour ago, fh4ever said:

where did you get the parts?  is there a fitting at the bottom that holds the ball?  

 

Now you have me thinking. I have a recollection of seeing a wee expanded housing attached to the bottom with the ball in it. I'll go and look...

 

Nope, neither my 1939 L5 with 1955 E-series 245 c.i. engine nor my 1930 Dodge Brothers have anything other than a tube with the bottom end squashed flat. Yes there will be a tiny air leak but it works. The tube in the Stude goes down below the exhaust join then turns inward then downwards. It probably reaches at least to the bottom of the engine block.

Edited March 28, 2017 by Spinneyhill (see edit history)

[fh4ever]

I guess it just needs a pin hole...just enough for the fuel to leak out and to get it low enough below the exhaust pipe.  I can give it a try.    

[37S2de]

Here is what I believe the "wee expanded housing" at the bottom end of the tube should look like.  In this case the ball is held in place by a small cotter pin.  Until Spinneyhill's response I wasn't picturing it in my head. Then I dimly remembered having something that looked like a small rosebud heating tip for an oxy-acetylene torch.

 

I'll not confess to how long I spent rooting around in boxes that haven't been opened in years before I found it.

 

Tom

[Guest]

Now that looks more like Studebaker quality than a flattened tube.

[fh4ever]

ahhh fantastic, looks like something that I should be able to make!  quite simple device! 

37s2de...thanks for your rooting around in your boxes !

 

while we are on this side of the engine...on the fuel pump....anyone know if the brass on the lever arm is studebaker's doing or is this someone's repair job.

 

 

 

r

   

 

Edited March 30, 2017 by fh4ever (see edit history)

[37S2de]

Once I found the tube and realized what it was, I couldn't resist installing it on my '35 Commander.  The bracket ( or pipe clamp) pictured in my last post was just right to hold the tube centered in a hole in the original engine pan.  The bracket is held in place by an oil pan bolt that is longer than all the others and extends above the flange of the engine block. The bracket had traces of engine paint on it, so I'm confident that this is where it goes.

 

I'm sorry about the shadows in the picture

 

What a good day. I learned something and my car is that much closer to as originally built.

 

Tom

[Spinneyhill]

That is the sort of thing I vaguely remember, although in brass. I may have seen it broken or something...

 

The fuel pump looks like it has a layer of brazing on the wearing surface. I have been looking at fuel pumps on fleabay for a while and no NOS pump has brass on the wearing surface. That looks to be an unusually short glass bowl. Is the pump a 1522227 or 1539406 (i.e. any numbers stamped into it)?

[fh4ever]

The pump only has "BC" and "made in USA" on it....no other markings.  An aftermarket part?   I don't know if they used brass wear pads back then or not.  The brass rubbing surface is curved and smooth as if it came from the factory that way.   My first thought was that someone had brazed the pad as a repair job on the wear surface since I had never seen brass used here before.  .  

 

 

 

.  

[Spinneyhill]

All the new rubbing pads I have seen have been flat, not curved (by wear).

 

A single cast-in bypass valve housing looks like a later (post war) replacement?

[Spinneyhill]

18 hours ago, fh4ever said:

The pump only has "BC" and "made in USA" on it....no other markings.  An aftermarket part?   I don't know if they used brass wear pads back then or not.  The brass rubbing surface is curved and smooth as if it came from the factory that way.   My first thought was that someone had brazed the pad as a repair job on the wear surface since I had never seen brass used here before.  

 

There is a new pump on eBay like that. Champion about 1960. Champion from 1939 also looked like that. The correct 9A pump, type 487, AC part number 1522227, is also on eBay right now. The number is stamped on the edge of the mounting flange.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-AC-fuel-Pump-Type-487-1936-1937-Studebaker-/142324424835?hash=item2123326083:g:joUAAOSwnbZYDo9J&vxp=mtr

 

According to this AC book, type 487 also fits '36 Dictator and 2T2, '37 5A, 6A, 2T2, J15, J15B, J15M; '38 7A, 8A, K5, K10, K15; '39-40 Commander, K5, K10, K15, L5.

 

[fh4ever]

I looked again...and still no other numbers anywhere on the fuel pump.  It must have been a replacement.  And looking at the pump on ebay, the lever arm looks just like that one (laminated steel), so I am convinced the brass was done not by Studebaker.  Either it had wear or the height was not quite correct and someone must have repaired it.  It still functions though.  Just odd to see brass there.