Nevadavic Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 (edited) I’m having a problem with adjusting the transmission in a ’41 Roadmaster sedan. When decelerating in third gear the transmission pops out of gear. The transmission works quite well and I believe it was overhauled in its recent history. It shifts well throughout all gears and is quiet. When I got the car I replaced all the fluids including using 90 weight GL-4 gear oil in the transmission. I have followed the “Adjustments” procedure in the 1941 Buick Shop Manual (page 174, Transmission, Universal Joint) and have adjusted the "selector rod" first and then "shifter rod" clevis several times in both directions hoping to solve the problem to no avail. And yes, I do have 1/8” clearance in both directions between the control lever housing and the mast jacket….at least I think I have. Ha! I sure would appreciate any thoughts or solutions to this problem. Thanks in advance for your comments, Vic Edited February 28, 2017 by Nevadavic (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
critterpainter Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 Are the shift linkage bushing in place and in good shape? This is the most common problem with poor shifting issues. Also on the last two Buicks I worked on, the shift mast was binding before it would travel its full distance. A little lube near the hand shift lever fixed that issue. One thing I check is to make sure that 3rd gear has full engagement. I shift the car fully into third using the shift lever, then I go under the car and disconnect the actuating rod from the lever on the side of the transmission and make sure that the lever on the side of the transmission will NOT move any further into the third position. If it moves more, then the adjustment is wrong. Adjusting is easy and good bushings are a must! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonMicheletti Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 If all the adjustments are right and there is no linkage slop, the probable problem is a bad bearing on the input shaft. I have seen this problem if the snap ring on the input shaft bearing moves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvelde Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 Had the same issue with my '39 Special that ended up being the selector lever clip and spring tension on the outside of the transmission. If the '41 has the same sort of clips and springs - there are two on the '39, might try adjusting the bend in the clip to tighten the tension of the one that holds the lever in third gear. Figure 7.10 or 7.11 shows the best view of these clips & springs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevadavic Posted March 1, 2017 Author Share Posted March 1, 2017 Thanks to everyone so far for your help! critterpainter - I have ordered 1941-48 Shift Linkage Repair Kit and 1940-48 Trans. Selector Bushing Kit from Bob's Automobilia. I hope that will help. DonMicheletti - I hope that the input bearing is OK... I don't like the idea of removing the transmission if I don't have to. We'll see... jvelde - The 41 Series 60-70-90 transmission is different from the 39. I have ordered a new repair kit for the selector and shift rods for the 41. After some further reading in the shop manual, I found a section on "Gear Jump-Out." I'm going to investigate improperly adjusted engine mounting and go through the "Engine Mounting Adjustment" procedure and see if that helps. I'm going to try the "easy stuff" first before pulling the transmission. Vic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevadavic Posted March 1, 2017 Author Share Posted March 1, 2017 (edited) I think I’ve found the culprit for the “third gear pop out” problem …. hopefully…. First of all, both the selector rod and shifter rod ends are worn out of round. And second, instead of “insulators” at the each end of the shifter rod, like the shop manual calls for, there were “thick brass washers.” Looks like someone used the brass pieces instead of the insulators. When I install the parts from Bob’s, I hope that cures the issue. Like critterpainter said; “Adjusting is easy and good bushings are a must!” Vic Edited March 1, 2017 by Nevadavic (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
critterpainter Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 I missed mentioning the "toggle spring and the toggle lever" on the outside of the transmission case. It helps hold the transmission in gear. Don is right about the input bearing causing a problem. There is a tapered bellview washer that fits in front of the input bearing. It can fall out easily during disassembly without being noticed. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevadavic Posted March 9, 2017 Author Share Posted March 9, 2017 Well... I replaced the rear transmission mount hoping that would resolve "the problem." The old mount was in sad shape but it didn't stop the transmission from popping out in third gear. I did install all new bushings, a new spring and welded up the shifter and selector rods. It looks like I have to remove the transmission and replace the input shaft bearing and any other parts necessary. I did some research for the necessary parts for the project and found most of them. Critterpainter mentioned a tapered "Bellville Washer," I couldn't seem to find one of these. Could someone please tell me where I can get a Bellville washer for a 1941 Buick Series 70 transmission? Thanks again for all the help so far! Vic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonMicheletti Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 It is the bearing retainer spring. Boba Automobilia has it. Their part number SP 389 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevadavic Posted March 9, 2017 Author Share Posted March 9, 2017 Thanks DonMicheletti..... But Bob's doesn't list a bearing retainer spring, part number SP 389. There is a "Clutch release support snap ring", part number SR-389 though. Is that the one you meant? Thanks again, Vic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
critterpainter Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 SR-389 is the part I was referring to. It just sits in the bell housing and is held in place by the transmission. Its known to fall out and roll across the floor when the tranny comes out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevadavic Posted March 9, 2017 Author Share Posted March 9, 2017 Thanks again, critterpainter! I'm going to order the transmission bearings, gaskets, input shaft seal, torque ball gaskets and seals, input shaft seal, shift shaft seal, clutch throwout bearing and....Clutch release support snap ring - SR-389. I guess I might as well order the rear brake hose and the clutch arm boot too (the boot was missing). Am I forgetting anything since I have to remove the differential too? Hopefully this will solve the problem! Vic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonMicheletti Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Damn, and I just got new glasses!! Yes, SR - 389 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevadavic Posted March 12, 2017 Author Share Posted March 12, 2017 I removed the transmission yesterday. When I pulled the trans out there was no "Clutch Release Support Snap Ring that fell out, Bob's Automobilia part # SR-389. Could this Snap Ring be the one that comes with the "Tranny Input Bearing shown below?? Critterpainter said " SR-389 is the part I was referring to. It just sits in the bell housing and is held in place by the transmission. Its known to fall out and roll across the floor when the tranny comes out." I did notice that there was considerable side play in the transmission main shaft input bearing.when I moved the shaft from side to side. When I get the new bearing this week, Bob's Part # TIB-364, I'll be able to see if there is any difference between the new and old bearing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevadavic Posted March 18, 2017 Author Share Posted March 18, 2017 All is well. I installed a new snap ring, Bob's part #SR-389, along with a new throw-out bearing, torque ball lip seal, torque ball tapered seal, Trans input seal, pilot bearing and several gasket sets. No more popping out of third gear! Thanks again for all the responses to this topic, all your help isa dn was most appreciated! Vic 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GARY F Posted March 18, 2017 Share Posted March 18, 2017 beautiful car. glad you got it fixed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil morse Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 (edited) Hi Vic: Glad to come to the end of your thread and find that you successfully fixed the problem. Unfortunately, the reason I was reading the thread was that on my second trip out on the highway in my "new" '41 Super, which I have now owned for a total of eight days, I experienced the same problem that you describe. It only happened three times during an 80 mile drive, but it was on deceleration each time, as you describe. It seemed to only occur when descending a long downgrade if I had to brake. And I have only had the problem when traveling at a good clip, 50 mph at least. I'm wondering how often and under what driving conditions you experienced the problem with your Roadmaster? Did it happen very frequently? I'm hoping my problem won't require the kind of extensive work that yours did. If it doesn't get any worse than it is now, I think I can live with it for now, at least. Edited March 19, 2017 by neil morse (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevadavic Posted March 19, 2017 Author Share Posted March 19, 2017 Hi Neil, I have only owned the Roadmaster for less than three months. The car didn't run very well since it was in storage for more than 5 years. There were several mechanical issues that needed attention since the car had not been used for so long. Once I got it run well I started driving the car around town on short trips and noticed the transmission problem. It seemed the transmission would pop out on deceleration no matter what speed I was traveling. I even tried to hold the column shift down in gear when decelerating to no avail. I could feel an intermittent upward movement in the shift lever as I decelerated. I did read the shop manual and followed the adjustment procedures for the transmission rods and motor mounts with no success. I then decided to post this topic and received some good advice. Yeah, I to didn't want to remove the transmission either, but that solved the problem when I learned I didn't have the $6.00 snap ring in place. Make sure you buy the 1941 shop manual! I sure was happy that I had the use of my son's two post lift, that made the job a lot easier. Vic 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil morse Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 Thanks for your reply, Vic. Based on what you say, I'm hoping that my car's problem is less severe than what you experienced. As I said, it only pops out occasionally, and I can keep it in gear by holding down the shift lever. I just got my shop manual, so I will take a good look at the pages about adjusting the shift linkage, and see if that takes care of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonMicheletti Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 Holding it in gear with the shift lever will cause the shifting fork to wear exccessively, then creating more problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil morse Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 45 minutes ago, DonMicheletti said: Holding it in gear with the shift lever will cause the shifting fork to wear exccessively, then creating more problems. Thank you for that advice, Don. I was making that observation more in terms of a diagnostic finding, not that I figured it was a solution to the problem. As I said, I'm going to follow the adjustment procedures in the shop manual and see if that solves the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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