1931 Cadillac 355A Convertible Coupe

[Guest]

I have just completed the restoration of a Fleetwood Style 4535 Convertible Coupe. The first two pictures show what it looked like when pulled out of an orchard near Goshen, Indiana by the previous owner in 1969. The third picture shows the car in November of 2015, when it was removed from the storage building in the background, where it had been since 1992.

Edited February 14, 2017 by Guest (see edit history)

[wldavis]

WOW!!!  It is amazing what you have done with this car.  Beautiful !!

[alsancle]

Nice job. And fast!

[chistech]

Beautiful car!

[keiser31]

Gorgeous!

[GARY F]

it is out of this world. great job and beautiful.

[old car fan]

 

just wow,awsome

[Steve9]

Beautiful car, beautiful colors.

[TexRiv_63]

Very pretty, nice job.

[tomcarnut]

Wonderful!! Hopefully I will see it at Auburn AACA meet in May or Hershey.  A mechanic friend of mine had a 33 convertible coupe with a fold up windshield in the rumble seat in his shop from a guy that inherited it and wanted to get it running. My friend had a new gas tank made and got it running but could not get ahold of the owner for over a year till I saw the car in an auction bill at Auburn. He called the auction company who called the owner who finally came and got the car after 1.5 years.   In the meantime he had to store it outside for a few months but put it in a another friend's barn for a while at my urging. Great running cars with the V8. Get all the trophies first and enjoy it on tours.  Should be able to do 60 all day long.

 

Tom Muth

Cincinnati, Ohio

[Guest]

I very much appreciate your kind words. I was able to complete the car fairly quickly because 1) the wood had all been replaced by the previous owner. 2) He had had the engine professionally rebuilt and it is excellent. 3) I have a friend who is a professional body man/painter and he worked on this car's body exclusively for five months from 9am-5pm. 4) I am retired and made this my full time job. Still, there were several parts that could not be located and had to be made. Some things such as getting some trim repaired and exhaust manifolds porcelainized took months. You guys know the drill. The biggest problem was missing parts. A rough sedan was parted out. Pete Sanders, Dick Shappy and Wayne Elsworth supplied some items, as did Ebay.

 Tom, I previously restored a '31 355A sedan. It is a big mistake to run these engines to RPMs that will result in speeds over 45-50mph. They will do it, but continued operation like that will eat the babbitt rod bearings out of them in short order. I know this from experience. They are long stroke engines designed for fairly low RPM operation. To that end, I installed a Gearvendors overdrive in my sedan. It allowed operation at speeds faster than I cared to go. The benefit was that in the 50-55mph range, the engine was just loafing along instead of screaming. The standard rear end ratio in these cars is 4.54:1. There is a topic on this forum where I detailed that overdrive installation.

Thanks again to all for your encouragement.

[keiser31]

I think Liberace had a gold one of those.

[C Carl]

Man , John , didn't Liberace have a gold one of everything ? ( or was that the Aga Khan ?) 

 

Seriously , Rick , three hearty cheers to you and the gentleman who pulled this treasure out of the orchard. Wonderful this beautiful old Cadillac didn't fall to the hotrodders torch in the '50s or '60s. Heartfelt congratulations for Mission Accomplished !  - Carl

[ScarredKnightfan]

Oh my goodness ... what an awesome transformation.  Congratulations!

 

 

Cort, www.oldcarsstronghearts.com
pig&cowValves.paceMaker * 1979 CC to 2003 MGM + 81mc

"We got mountains to climb" | Rod Stewart | 'Broken Arrow'

[David Fertig]

Hi.  Great looking car.  Could you tell me what the difference is between a roadster and a convertible coupe?  Also, I noticed that the front fenders on the car when you bought it did not have the spare tire mount, but that the restored car does.  Could you provide reasoning for changing them?

 

Thanks!

[keiser31]

2 hours ago, David Fertig said:

Hi.  Great looking car.  Could you tell me what the difference is between a roadster and a convertible coupe?  Also, I noticed that the front fenders on the car when you bought it did not have the spare tire mount, but that the restored car does.  Could you provide reasoning for changing them?

 

Thanks!

Usually, the roadster has snap on side curtains and the convertible coupe has roll-up windows.

Edited February 11, 2018 by keiser31 (see edit history)

[chistech]

5 hours ago, David Fertig said:

Hi.  Great looking car.  Could you tell me what the difference is between a roadster and a convertible coupe?  Also, I noticed that the front fenders on the car when you bought it did not have the spare tire mount, but that the restored car does.  Could you provide reasoning for changing them?

 

Thanks!

 

It seems many prefer the deluxe, 6 wheeled, fender well spare versions of car models over the 5 wheeled, rear mounted spare models. Not only now when cars are restored, but when they were first made, the deluxe cars where preferred and that shows in the production numbers. What most don’t realize is that if you have a 5 wheeled model, it is more than likely, a much rarer car. For example, Oldsmobile made 249 F32 deluxe convertible roadsters with wood wheels but made only 53 F32 standard or 5 wheeled roadsters. With my research, only 3 true F32 wood wheeled DCRs are known but there are no F32 5 wood wheeled models in known. This means the 5 wheeled car is a rarer and more valuable car. But, value is often in the eye of the beholder.

[alsancle]

I have been around prewar cars my entire life (which is starting to get long) and honest to god,  until a friend beat this in to me last year I didn't realize the "cache" of the sidemount car.  It was news to me.   Coming from the Mercedes world,  a rear spare car is worth 40-50% more than a sidemount car.  There are some other complexities that probably make that standard not apply to other marques, but that is where my view of the world came from.   Then I find out most everybody else wants dual sidemounts!

My new view is it depends on the car,  I think some cars look longer with the rear spares,  especially when they are doubled up.

Edited February 11, 2018 by alsancle (see edit history)

[trimacar]

I really like no sidemounts, with spare on rear or in trunk.  Not only does it make car look cleaner, it's practical, both from changing a tire and engine access viewpoints.  Sidemounts may appeal to most, but they are a PITA.....

[chistech]

My Olds is original with the two sides mounts and even though I agree on how nice and clean a rear mounted spare car looks, I'm still very happy to have able to purchase my Olds for restoration. I'll take it the way it is! LOL

[Brass is Best]

The beauty of restoring a car yourself is that you get to make it just the way you want it.

[David Fertig]

1 hour ago, Brass is Best said:

The beauty of restoring a car yourself is that you get to make it just the way you want it.

Still trying to figure that one out as it seems there are a lot of opinionated people on this site.  I was looking for a rough old Chevy to make a street rod out of and was told that I should go elsewhere and that no one here would sell me a car if I was not going to keep it original.  And I was reading a thread with a guy who "restored" a late '30's Olds (I think), but changed to modern brakes and added turn signals and was chastised for that.

 

Just scratching my head and trying to figure is all out.  Changing fenders is ok.  Parting or cutting a car or two to restore another is ok.  But to take an old car and put modern parts on it to make it either more reliable, safer, or more fun (in the opinion of the owner) to drive is not.

 

The 1931 Cadillac is an absolutely beautiful car in my opinion.  And since I am a Chevy guy, I was hoping to find a '32 Chevy since it is pretty much the baby '31 Cadillac.  I prefer not having the spares on the fenders since it interrupts the lines of the body.  And one thing I like about these Cadillacs and Chevys is that they seem to be in better proportions then some of the other higher end cars which seem stretched just a little too far or are not proportional with axle location.  

 

The convertible coupe vs. roadster makes sense.  And if I would have thought about it, I could have probably figured it out since I have a '30 Ford cabriolet which some call a convertible.  

[trimacar]

17 minutes ago, David Fertig said:

Just scratching my head and trying to figure is all out.  Changing fenders is ok.  Parting or cutting a car or two to restore another is ok.  But to take an old car and put modern parts on it to make it either more reliable, safer, or more fun (in the opinion of the owner) to drive is not.

 

It's very simple, actually.  If your effort results in an original car, as it came from the factory, or could have come from the factory, then it's what the AACA forum is for, to discuss original cars.

 

If someone wants to put in an SBC or modify a car, then not much is going to stop them, it's just not the thing that is discussed well on this particular forum.  If such a posting is made, then expect "purists" like me to possibly have comments that aren't positive.

 

On another thread this thinking was called "holier than thou".  That sword is double edged, as the hot rod guy thinks the purists are wrong, that it's "unsafe" and "not fun" to drive an original car, as you even state.

 

Driving an original car is part of the experience.  If one doesn't get that, then one doesn't get that.  If I want fast and reliable I'll drive a new car.  If I want the old car experience, then by golly I'm driving an old car, not a new car that LOOKS like an old car.

 

All that said, I'd love to have a '32 full fendered Ford roadster, with some interesting (non-SBC) engine in it....but it's just about the only hot rod that tugs at my "want" gene....

[David Fertig]

3 minutes ago, trimacar said:

It's very simple, actually.  If your effort results in an original car, as it came from the factory, or could have come from the factory, then it's what the AACA forum is for, to discuss original cars.

 

Driving an original car is part of the experience.  If one doesn't get that, then one doesn't get that.  If I want fast and reliable I'll drive a new car.  If I want the old car experience, then by golly I'm driving an old car, not a new car that LOOKS like an old car.

 

Ok.  I think I've got it.  I'll try to keep my comments site specific.  Guess I am one of those rare guys who can appreciate both restored cars and hot rods.  But tractor grills on cars?  That one I do not get!

[alsancle]

7 minutes ago, trimacar said:

All that said, I'd love to have a '32 full fendered Ford roadster, with some interesting (non-SBC) engine in it....but it's just about the only hot rod that tugs at my "want" gene....

 

There is a pecking order (or snobbery) in everything.  Anybody that tosses out the idea of putting a SBC in to anything but a tri-five or vette is going to be looked down at by the pure hot rod guys.

[Matt Harwood]

27 minutes ago, alsancle said:

 

There is a pecking order (or snobbery) in everything.  Anybody that tosses out the idea of putting a SBC in to anything but a tri-five or vette is going to be looked down at by the pure hot rod guys.

 

And God forbid you build a plastic roadster or 3-window coupe, even though nobody can tell the difference without rapping their knuckles on it.

[alsancle]

1 hour ago, Matt Harwood said:

 

And God forbid you build a plastic roadster or 3-window coupe, even though nobody can tell the difference without rapping their knuckles on it.

The considerations that forced the plastic decision initially will show up in other ways in the final form. You can usually tell but not always.  I think you are always better off with a lesser steel “real” car than a reproduction.

[chistech]

I think I started something I didn't mean to start on this thread. The Caddy featured here is beautiful no matter if it was originally rear spared or now changed to side mounts. The purpose of my statement was to bring to light that many prefer the sidemount look, even changing the original configuration (like this Caddy) but often don't realize that the rear mounted car is much rarer and "different" than most.  My 32' Olds for example was factory delivered either 5 wheeled or six. Another factory delivery option was wood or wire wheels. Neither were offered as "dealer" options and Olds had many dealer options in 32'. So changing a 32' olds from 5 to 6 wheels, or even wire to wood wheels is actually changing the authenticity of that specific car as it was delivered from the factory. Now another example is the Chevrolet of 32'. Spare tires were "dealer" options, added at time of purchase so changing their configuration doesn't really matter as all cars were delivered the same (I believe with no spares at all). Truth is many will never know and it's almost impossible to know if the wheels or spares weren't changed over the cars life. Some cars are easily documented, others can be closely investigated by slowing removing paint to check colors, looking at specific welds, etc. I personally am one of the purists. If I can restore the car back to how it was originally delivered from the factory, I will, and do it as closely as today's times make it possible.

 

Now, back to how the direction of the thread went: There is a saying, about everyone having an opinion and a specific part of their anatomy compared to that opinion, "opinions are like @&&*%@!$, everyone has one! And this will always be the case. I personally only care about my opinion on my own cars. The reason for my first post was I just tried to bring to light that changing the spares in essence, can make the car "less rare".  

Edited February 12, 2018 by chistech (see edit history)

[David Fertig]

So - using the car in this thread for an example - I am seeing items like chrome steering column, shifter, and parking brake handle, along with some chrome linkage and stainless bolts under the hood.

 

Would this then be considered a "resto-mod?"  

 

Or were these items originally chrome and stainless in 1931?

 

I am gathering that for most people in the AACA, they want to take a car and make the best model they can out of it.  Such as take a lower model - without the spare tires on the fenders - and upgrade it, as long as it could have come that way from the factory.   Kind of like all the SS Camaro 's and Chevelle's or GTO's that started out as lower models.

[Brass is Best]

6 minutes ago, David Fertig said:

So - using the car in this thread for an example - I am seeing items like chrome steering column, shifter, and parking brake handle, along with some chrome linkage and stainless bolts under the hood.

 

Would this then be considered a "resto-mod?"  

 

Or were these items originally chrome and stainless in 1931?

 

I am gathering that for most people in the AACA, they want to take a car and make the best model they can out of it.  Such as take a lower model - without the spare tires on the fenders - and upgrade it, as long as it could have come that way from the factory.   Kind of like all the SS Camaro 's and Chevelle's or GTO's that started out as lower models.

 

Yes sir all of those chrome items were chrome in 1931. As for the side mount tires they were personal preference in 1931 and still are today. The AACA and other similar clubs CCCA ACD etc... want to see a car returned to an original condition or a condition that could have existed when the car was new. An exception being vintage Hot Rods but that is another topic. Google some images of 1930 - 1931 Cadillacs. Look at the V-16 models. These cars were the epitome of style and craftsmanship. Also look at Classic Era Packard, Auburn, Cord and Duesenberg Automobiles. Bright colors, Exotic Leathers and woods are common. As are multi cylinder engines and all kinds of mechanical innovations. This was probably the zenith of the automobile. We will never see such style and elegance again. 

 

Here is a 31 Cadillac with a V-16 engine. When it is running you can balance a nickel on the intake manifold. That smooth.

[chistech]

4 hours ago, David Fertig said:

So - using the car in this thread for an example - I am seeing items like chrome steering column, shifter, and parking brake handle, along with some chrome linkage and stainless bolts under the hood.

 

Would this then be considered a "resto-mod?"  

 

Or were these items originally chrome and stainless in 1931?

 

I am gathering that for most people in the AACA, they want to take a car and make the best model they can out of it.  Such as take a lower model - without the spare tires on the fenders - and upgrade it, as long as it could have come that way from the factory.   Kind of like all the SS Camaro 's and Chevelle's or GTO's that started out as lower models.

What I'm gathering from this is you were thinking that the restorer of this Caddy took some liberties from original when in actuality, he didn't. Again, there is a difference between these cars and the Camaros/chevelles that you mention. Some cars came with options, some were dealer added and the car remained the same model. On most there was no build sheet and the Olds was the exception of the times with the spare tires. If you take a Camaro and make it an SS camaro, it's vin will tell you that the car in fact is not a SS but a plain camaro. If you take a rear spare mounted Chevy and change it to dual side mounts, the body identification plate only states the body design and not the dealer added accessories. Someone could have bought a 2 dr sedan and had duals put on it from new, then got in a wreck and replaced the fenders with no fender wells, putting a single spare on the rear. Many years later, someone restoring it could add the side mounts back to it never knowing it was originally sold as a side mounted car and in actuality, returning it to its as delivered condition. Yes, even purists might add something like dual mounts because all too often, it's not known how that car was delivered or optioned by the dealer. A lot can happen in 80 plus years with no documentation. If there is provenance to a car, I would bet close to 100% of the time, the car is left as it was. The cars you mention have provenance with their build sheets. Changing a 250 70' Nova to a big block and adding SS badges, does not make it a true, or possibly original big block Nova SS. 

[Spinneyhill]

19 hours ago, Brass is Best said:

Here is a 31 Cadillac with a V-16 engine. When it is running you can balance a nickel on the intake manifold. That smooth.

I can do that with my 1930 Dodge Brothers 8.

[David Fertig]

3 hours ago, Spinneyhill said:

I can do that with my 1930 Dodge Brothers 8.

 

 

I can fry an egg on my Nova's headers.  Does that count for anything?

 

(That's tongue-in-cheek.  Don't get too upset)

[chistech]

Do you actually have a Nova? I used a Nova for my above example because my brother was trying to make a deal with a guy for an "original" 70' Nova BB SS. The only year for the BB in that fastback style. Guy told him he had owned it since 74 and when my brother ran the vin, turned out it was originally a 250 6cyl Nova!  The guy claimed that he knew nothing about it. Of course he was looking for the type of money a true 70' SS BB Nova would bring.

[David Fertig]

39 minutes ago, chistech said:

Do you actually have a Nova? 

 

Yes.  I have a Pro-Street 1962 that I built in the early '90's.  It's a full frame car, not just a back-halved like a lot of them.  Has a 406 in it.  Gets 10mpg and I am not afraid to drive it a couple hours away.  I never got around to paint and interior, so it's far from a show car, but it's a fun and comfortable ride.

 

I also have a '66 V8 wagon that is all original and waiting its turn in line.

 

But perhaps we are getting too far from the original post?

 

My questions were more to try and figure out the members of this site.  It seems that there is a great lack of interest in cars from the first half of the century by young people.  I am probably younger then most on this site, but I have been into cars from my first one, which was a '56 Chevy that I still have.  I do not understand having something that is mechanical that cannot be used.  The idea of pushing a car into and out of a trailer and sitting beside it at a show is a concept that I do not understand.  Having a car that someone is afraid to drive over 45mph is a concept I do not understand.  I can watch a steam engine run for hours.  I collect 18th century tall clocks because I am fascinated with the mechanics of them - and they are still keeping time.  I buy the cars that I like the looks of and do whatever the car tells me in order to make a dependable driver out of it.  The straight 6 in my '56 just purrs right along, but I pity the people who get behind me on our twisty roads here, what with the original brakes and bias plys.  And I have a '33 Chevy sedan that has a 350/350 in it.  That car probably gets more young people looking at it and asking about it then any of my other cars.  And to me, that is a lot of what this is all about - getting young people interested in old things.  There is nothing worse then looking around a hobby and seeing the members die off and no one there to take the reigns.  I have only recently found this site, but I have seen a number of people who are quite frankly a turn off.  There is a lot of good advice here and I enjoy reading a lot of the threads, so I will continue to ask questions and post ads and make comments.  And that is my 2 cents for now until I make some change.

[Gary Ohnsrad]

I have just acquired a 1931 355A convertible coupe. I have a pair of piolet-ray driving lights however need the linkage. Can anyone help with where I could purchase the required parts. I also need the step plate that mounts at the rear bumper. Also looking for a owners manual.

gary.ohnstad@icloud.com 

ph: 605-310-0998

Edited February 23, 2020 by Gary Ohnsrad (see edit history)

[edinmass]

Contact Wayne Elsworth, he is in the Cad club, he can help. I have owned a bunch of 1931 Caddy 8's, if you need help with anything. 

[John_Mereness]

On 2/23/2020 at 6:50 PM, Gary Ohnsrad said:

I have just acquired a 1931 355A convertible coupe. I have a pair of piolet-ray driving lights however need the linkage. Can anyone help with where I could purchase the required parts. I also need the step plate that mounts at the rear bumper. Also looking for a owners manual.

gary.ohnstad@icloud.com 

ph: 605-310-0998

Pete Saunders

PeteSounders1100@gmail.com

703-350-7352

 

Nice quality parts - not cheap, but eat peanut butter and jelly for a week and just buy the parts

[mbenseignant@gmail.com]

Could somebody post a link to Guest’s Gearvendors discussion, apparently on the AACA site somewhere? Many thanks, Mike Barnes