Insurance for outdoor stored unregistered undriven classic

[Guest GazGuzlingPower]

Hagerty will not insure a car for fire, theft, vandalism, hail, flood, tree falling that is not stored in a locked garage. The big regular car insurance companies (GEICO, Progressive, etc.) are happy to insure an unregistered classic that is stored outdoors (after all they have to insure cars in many states before the person goes to the DMV to get it registered), but they don't have a storage-only policy, so you're stuck paying for a premium based on the incorrect assumption that the car will be driven to some degree in order to get in covered against a tree falling on it. In other words, comprehensive coverage, which is extremely expensive. It is not possible for me to have a garage or to store the car inside, and it will be a few years before the car is roadworthy so I would have to pay a couple thousand dollars a year on insurance that covers a much greater risk than my actual risk (since I am not going to drive it, and driving is of course the greatest risk), so the question is this:

 

Is there an insurance company that will insure an unregistered classic car against vandalism, hail, fire, tree falling, etc. (all forms of non-driving related damage) without getting full comprehensive coverage which unnecessarily and expensively covers driving?

 

Edited February 6, 2017 by GazGuzlingPower
typos (see edit history)

[huptoy]

Don't bother with State Farm even with inside locked storage..    As I was finishing up a 67 Mustang, they would not provide Antique Insurance rate until it was drivable. 

To get comprehensive Ins, I had to purchase regular insurance. 

[39BuickEight]

As an insurance employee, I doubt it.  What exactly do you want coverage for?  Wind/storm/hail/theft?  That's comprehensive.  If it's just collision you don't want, the major carriers will often take that part out, but insuring any classic vehicle with a major carrier is never a good idea because that's not what they do.  They can't properly underwrite or process claims on such vehicles, I don't care what they say.

 

Major carriers are the ones you see commercials on TV for.

[jp928]

I have a cover called 'Laid Up' here in Oz for my 26 Rover - basically only covers a total loss caused by the house burning down or otherwise destroyed. A$60/pa covering A$9500, unfinished restoration. Have a kit car (Lotus 7 clone) covered for $23k for $290/pa, only to be used for 90 days/pa. Insurer is selective about what they cover - for ordinary stuff like Mazda3, their quotes are prohibitive.

I think you need to look for a speciality firm, or go through a broker.

 

jp 26 Rover 9

[EmTee]

In my opinion, the best policy is to spend $100 a month to get the car into a garage.  That will pay benefits of preserving the car while you get organized to begin the restoration.  Even if you're able to find 'insurance' for a car stored outside, it will not compensate you for the annual degradation in condition caused by Mother Nature.  You'll be money ahead in the end.

[John_S_in_Penna]

11 hours ago, GazGuzlingPower said:

...so I would have to pay a couple thousand dollars a year on insurance...

 

In what state do you live?

Modern-car insurance costs evidently vary tremendously

among locations.  The price variation is undoubtedly

caused by the level of crime, and especially by a state's

legal protections or lack thereof.  In a safe and less-urban part

of Pennsylvania, the cost might be $200 or $300 a year.

Edited February 6, 2017 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[Plyroadking]

I've got my 1957 International pickup with State Farm, comprehensive only until I get it drivable. No fake "agreed value" BS, just comprehensive, it's  $19 every 6 months. If something were to happen to it they'll send out an appraiser to determine total loss value, or "go off my stack of receipts and reimburse me my expenses" 

 

I did have to get a "full policy" I just had them suspend the collision, liability, and whatever other coverages they throw on, but left the comprehensive activated.

Edited February 6, 2017 by Plyroadking (see edit history)

[kgreen]

Isn't there some component of your homeowners insurance that will cover the loss you are trying to cover?  I also agree with Em Tee that keeping the vehicle indoors saves alot more risk from mother nature than an insurance company can provide.

[39BuickEight]

Homeowners doesnt/cant cover anything that can be licensed for the road.

[JFranklin]

1 hour ago, 39BuickEight said:

Homeowners doesnt/cant cover anything that can be licensed for the road.

 

Yes but they do cover art.

[Bhigdog]

And my tractor and ATV as long as the loss occurred on my property...................Bob

Edited February 6, 2017 by Bhigdog (see edit history)

[39BuickEight]

2 hours ago, JFranklin said:

 

Yes but they do cover art.

They can cover 99% of the things in the world that people own.  There are very few exclusions, motor vehicles being one.  States have laws and statutes regarding motor vehicles that require those policies separately written.  I doubt any insurance agent or adjuster could or would cover any auto as art without violating a statute or a dept of insurance rule.  I know the company I work (a major insurer) for would not do that, and we are all governed the same (by state).

Edited February 6, 2017 by 39BuickEight (see edit history)

[vermontboy]

I may have missed it but what kind of car are we speaking of here and what is the current condition ?? Is it a 30's classic, 60's muscle car, or just a nice 80's sedan looking to be a driver someday ? Approximate value in it's current condition ?

[Trulyvintage]

I guess I am stupid ....

 

The OP wants an insurance company to assume the risk for storage outside of a locked garage for their vehicle.

 

That is a scenario anticipating a loss and a claim.

 

What is wrong with this picture ?

 

Jim

Edited February 7, 2017 by Trulyvintage (see edit history)

[39BuickEight]

Also, no reputable carrier should knowingly put any auto coverage on a vehicle that is not roadworthy.  Premiums are based on value, and there is no way to objectively value a vehicle that is not roadworthy.  There would be no way to properly settle a claim on such a vehicle. 

 

Unfortunately the only way you may find any way to cover it would be to find an agent who doesn't understand the policy they are selling and an underwriter who doesn't realize what the condition the vehicle is in.  At best you will be paying a premium based on a completely subjective value.

Edited February 7, 2017 by 39BuickEight (see edit history)

[Plyroadking]

43 minutes ago, Trulyvintage said:

I guess I am stupid ....

 

The OP wants an insurance complany to assume the risk for storage outside of a locked garage for their vehicle.

 

That is a scenario anticipating a loss and a claim.

 

What is wrong with this picture ?

 

Jim

That's what I'm doing, if it were stolen or damaged during a tornado/hail/fire I'd like to get my investment returned. It's insured with a State Farm standard vehicle full coverage policy with everything but the comprehensive coverage suspended. They regularly do it and did it for my other cars before I took my classics elsewhere after learning my "agreed value policy" wasn't worth the paper it was printed on. 

If it's a total loss, they'll appraise it and give me that amount or add up my receipts and reimburse me for that amount. 

 

 

[Restorer32]

I very much doubt any insurance co would "add up your receipts and pay you that amount".

[39BuickEight]

I do like that truck, but as mentioned, no reputable insurance company (other than a specialty classic insurance company-with their rules of course) should knowingly put any coverage on that vehicle other than liability (which of course you don't need or want).  It goes against the way insurance policies are worded, written, and governed.   They can't accurately determine what it's worth in that condition, so they can't accurately charge you a premium--and that's a huge no-no for any insurance company.  I work with State Farm every day on claims and, unless you are paying off your agent to handle the claim and pay you themselves (which they do sometimes), you aren't getting anything based on your receipts.  Many policies, not all, but many, specifically use the term "dead storage" in their exclusion language--meaning if it's something that doesn't work, can't work, can't be valued, or otherwise not useful, then it's not covered.

 

I wish you the best, but be careful because you sound like you are expecting a lot more than is realistic.  Remember, just because you find a policy doesn't mean it will cover what you expect-or at all.  That could be the fault of the agent who sells it or the person who applies for it.

 

For the sake of gathering info, what do you expect that truck to be worth, in your opinion?  I have no idea, just wondering is it is worth even having insurance on it?

 

It already needs some body work and paint, so having comprehensive/other than collision/whatever you want to call it coverage for any body damage (hail/fire/tree falling/etc) would likely not trigger much of a claim payment.  Is someone going to steal a part off of it (deductible applies)?  Is someone going to steal the whole thing?  I guess anything is possible.  Are you going to strike an animal?  No.  Just asking questions that come to mind since I deal in this everyday.

Edited February 7, 2017 by 39BuickEight (see edit history)

[padgett]

Just a thought but there are a number of portable garages/garage in a box that could be erected around the truck and one that is completely enclosed could be locked.

 

Some applications may ask for the construction of the garage.

[Plyroadking]

5 hours ago, padgett said:

Just a thought but there are a number of portable garages/garage in a box that could be erected around the truck and one that is completely enclosed could be locked.

 

Some applications may ask for the construction of the garage.

I've thought about that but with the wind we get here they don't last very long

[joe_padavano]

17 hours ago, 39BuickEight said:

Also, no reputable carrier should knowingly put any auto coverage on a vehicle that is not roadworthy.

 

Not true.  Haggerty (and possibly others) will write insurance policies for unregistered project cars, parts, and tools.  The cost of this coverage is unlikely to make it worthwhile for most, but you CAN get coverage.

[Plyroadking]

5 hours ago, 39BuickEight said:

I do like that truck, but as mentioned, no reputable insurance company (other than a specialty classic insurance company-with their rules of course) should knowingly put any coverage on that vehicle other than liability (which of course you don't need or want).  It goes against the way insurance policies are worded, written, and governed.   They can't accurately determine what it's worth in that condition, so they can't accurately charge you a premium--and that's a huge no-no for any insurance company.  I work with State Farm every day on claims and, unless you are paying off your agent to handle the claim and pay you themselves (which they do sometimes), you aren't getting anything based on your receipts.  Many policies, not all, but many, specifically use the term "dead storage" in their exclusion language--meaning if it's something that doesn't work, can't work, can't be valued, or otherwise not useful, then it's not covered.

 

I wish you the best, but be careful because you sound like you are expecting a lot more than is realistic.  Remember, just because you find a policy doesn't mean it will cover what you expect-or at all.  That could be the fault of the agent who sells it or the person who applies for it.

 

For the sake of gathering info, what do you expect that truck to be worth, in your opinion?  I have no idea, just wondering is it is worth even having insurance on it?

 

It already needs some body work and paint, so having comprehensive/other than collision/whatever you want to call it coverage for any body damage (hail/fire/tree falling/etc) would likely not trigger much of a claim payment.  Is someone going to steal a part off of it (deductible applies)?  Is someone going to steal the whole thing?  I guess anything is possible.  Are you going to strike an animal?  No.  Just asking questions that come to mind since I deal in this everyday.

It's insured just as every other vehicle is in the neighborhood that sits outside, it just has everything else suspended. 

 

For value I've been collecting Craigslist and ebay ads every time something comparable comes along, asking prices are $3,500- $5,500ish. There's a fully restored one for $50k that's been for sale for at least a year. I have $2,500 total in mine, half of that is wheels and tires. A coworker has offered $6,500 for the truck once I finish the power steering/brakes addition and some wiring. But I'm not really interested in selling it. 

 

I'm not worried about someone stealing parts, mostly just the whole truck or a tornado. The way the it was explained to me if the truck were stolen they'd find a comparable for determining a value. Since they only wanted 1 picture of the truck there's no possible way they have anyway to know what I had. So they said they'd go off of my receipts for a value. (Still no way to prove that the receipts are actually for parts I actually put on that truck) with my previous experience with them it's probably a line of BS just like their "agreed value policies" but I learned from last time and wrote emails rather than just phone conversations. They said once I'm ready to take it on the street to let them know and they'll reinstate liability and collision.

 

As for bodywork, I'm not even going to wash it. I like the Moss and liken growing on it. Also the main reason St Farm won't do an "agreed value policy " on it. My plans are to finish getting it road worthy this spring, reinstate the full coverage with State Farm and switch it to my classic car insurance company once I get another garage built to park it in.

 

[Plyroadking]

7 hours ago, Restorer32 said:

I very much doubt any insurance co would "add up your receipts and pay you that amount".

Not to be argumentative, but that's how Flo from progressive came to determine the value of my "totaled" 40 plymouth when their driver caused the wreck. They couldn't find any comparables that were similarly equipped or even the same year. They offered exactly the amount that my receipts totaled to plus what I paid for the car. I wasn't as religious as I should have been with keeping receipts and took the offer and made up the loss on the injury claim.

[39BuickEight]

47 minutes ago, joe_padavano said:

 

Not true.  Haggerty (and possibly others) will write insurance policies for unregistered project cars, parts, and tools.  The cost of this coverage is unlikely to make it worthwhile for most, but you CAN get coverage.

You are correct Joe.  I failed to clarify that I wasn't talking about the specialty auto insurers, but rather the large national multi line companies.  I actually have a project policy on my car with Hagerty.

Edited February 7, 2017 by 39BuickEight (see edit history)

[39BuickEight]

There are very few absolutes in regards insurance sales and coverages.  There are always judgment calls made, and lots of gray area.  I just want to pass along as much info as I can as an employee in the industry.  Insurance policies are governed, and this vehicle is a very tough one to deal with for any company in terms of proper underwriting and claims processing.  Often policies are issued incorrectly, whether because the agent doesn't want to say no or because they don't understand the way claims are handled.

[JACK M]

4 hours ago, Plyroadking said:

 

 

As for bodywork, I'm not even going to wash it. I like the Moss and liken growing on it.

 

 

That with the pine needles and leaves in the nooks and crannies and it will soon be junk.

The very first thing I do when I buy a junker is to give it  thorough pressure washing to make some sort of attempt to preserve what is left.

[Xander Wildeisen]

We have a couple un-restored old cars inside, and our 08 Dodge mega cab outside. The old cars have paid their dues outside.

[victorialynn2]

A little off the topic of this post but can someone explain why stated value is worthless? Is it the same as agreed value? I have JC Taylor/Foremost "agreed value" coverage and assumed that's the amount they pay in a total loss?

[60FlatTop]

If anyone buys a car, especially one there are going to spend a lot of time and money restoring, it is important to get all legal ownership documents in their name immediately. Insurance is usually required to do that through licensing the vehicle. Transfer of ownership is part of the sale.

How many of you are spending time and money on cars that are not legally your own?

 

Those open air museum pieces tend to dissolve in water... like rain.  And the interiors stink. And they sink into the ground. And the paint get streaks where the water runs down. Even the chrome on the bumpers shows etching. How much do you figure the insurance company should value the toys left outside?

Bernie

[lump]

One very important point to remember with insurance is that, JUST BECAUSE YOU ARE PAYING A PREMIUM FOR INSURANCE, DOES NOT NECESSARILY MEAN THE INSURANCE COMPANY WILL PAY OFF LIKE YOU THOUGHT WHEN A CLAIM HAPPENS.

 

Underwriters have legal "outs" to allow them to deny claims which they believe are not based on what they intended to cover. After a tragedy happens, insurance adjusters look at every dash, comma, and footnote on your policy. THEN they decide if they need to pay off. For example, (getting away from cars as an example), if you insure an old house which you bought as a rental property here in Ohio, but you first tear into it for a total remodel job, and then tragedy strikes....the insurance company might not pay off anything, when they learn that the house was not occupied at the time (you have only a certain number of days that it is allowed to be vacant). The point is that this exclusion is in spite of the fact that you have been paying homeowner's insurance for months or years. 

 

As I said before, just because an insurance company accepts your payment, does not necessarily mean you will be compensated in the way you thought, after a claim is filed. 

[39BuickEight]

38 minutes ago, victorialynn2 said:

A little off the topic of this post but can someone explain why stated value is worthless? Is it the same as agreed value? I have JC Taylor/Foremost "agreed value" coverage and assumed that's the amount they pay in a total loss?

They are very different

 

Stated value is a figure you and the insurance company agree on that is used to calculate your premium.  If you have a claim, the value is then calculated and you get what it's worth at that time up to your stated value.  It keeps people from putting $50,000 on a $20,000 vehicle and then filing a fraudulent claim to make money.  It also keeps insurance companies without expert knowledge from over-insuring these types of vehicles.  In that case, the person would only get $20,000.

 

Agreed value is what the classic insurance experts like Hagerty and the like do.  You and them agree on what it's worth, and you get that if there is a total loss claim.   With the same example you would get the full $50,000 regardless.

 

That said, the terms are often interchanged, like classic vs. antique automobiles are interchanged, so the only way to know for sure is to contact your insurer.

Edited February 9, 2017 by 39BuickEight (see edit history)

[39BuickEight]

4 minutes ago, lump said:

One very important point to remember with insurance is that, JUST BECAUSE YOU ARE PAYING A PREMIUM FOR INSURANCE, DOES NOT NECESSARILY MEAN THE INSURANCE COMPANY WILL PAY OFF LIKE YOU THOUGHT WHEN A CLAIM HAPPENS.

 

Underwriters have legal "outs" to allow them to deny claims which they believe are not based on what they intended to cover. After a tragedy happens, insurance adjusters look at every dash, comma, and footnote on your policy. THEN they decide if they need to pay off. For example, (getting away from cars as an example), if you insure an old house which you bought as a rental property here in Ohio, but you first tear into it for a total remodel job, and then tragedy strikes....the insurance company might not pay off anything, when they learn that the house was not occupied at the time (you have only a certain number of days that it is allowed to be vacant). The point is that this exclusion is in spite of the fact that you have been paying homeowner's insurance for months or years. 

 

As I said before, just because an insurance company accepts your payment, does not necessarily mean you will be compensated in the way you thought, after a claim is filed. 

Sounds like you had a bad experience.  People always think they know their policy, but in realty, they have no idea.  Many times it is the fault of the applicant for supplying incorrect information, both intentionally and unintentionally.  Each type of policy has language that is governed and intended for certain types of instances.  Premiums reflect that also.  Using the above example, of course there is a limit on vacancy because nobody is going to put much of a policy on a vacant structure.  If everything was always covered, premiums would be 10x what they are and insurance would be unaffordable to the common folk that need it.

 

There are and will always be instances of confusion, but as long as both sides are doing what they are supposed to do, there isn't any one side that's more at fault for it.

[39BuickEight]

12 minutes ago, lump said:

One very important point to remember with insurance is that, JUST BECAUSE YOU ARE PAYING A PREMIUM FOR INSURANCE, DOES NOT NECESSARILY MEAN THE INSURANCE COMPANY WILL PAY OFF LIKE YOU THOUGHT WHEN A CLAIM HAPPENS.

 

Underwriters have legal "outs" to allow them to deny claims which they believe are not based on what they intended to cover. After a tragedy happens, insurance adjusters look at every dash, comma, and footnote on your policy. THEN they decide if they need to pay off. For example, (getting away from cars as an example), if you insure an old house which you bought as a rental property here in Ohio, but you first tear into it for a total remodel job, and then tragedy strikes....the insurance company might not pay off anything, when they learn that the house was not occupied at the time (you have only a certain number of days that it is allowed to be vacant). The point is that this exclusion is in spite of the fact that you have been paying homeowner's insurance for months or years. 

 

As I said before, just because an insurance company accepts your payment, does not necessarily mean you will be compensated in the way you thought, after a claim is filed. 

double post

Edited February 9, 2017 by 39BuickEight (see edit history)

[lump]

My post was not an attack on the insurance companies. Rather, stating the fact that it is commonplace for people to pay for insurance, and then be shocked after a claim happens when they learn that they weren't covered "for that specific event." Worse yet, it is often the case that the buyer would not have bought that insurance, if he/she understood what was not really covered. Furthermore, buyers of policies do sometimes "slightly misrepresent" facts about their cars to keep policy pricing lower, then pay on a policy for years, only to be shocked, angry, and feel betrayed when their loss isn't covered. 

 

Moral to the story: Be sure to READ that policy before you buy it, word-for-word. Carefully. And make sure the agent is fully aware of your car's condition, storage situation, etc, etc. Insurance companies will pay off exactly according to the terms of your policy, but are very strict about not paying when the terms are not quite met. 

[Plyroadking]

2 hours ago, 39BuickEight said:

 

 

Agreed value is what the classic insurance experts like Hagerty and the like do.  You and them agree on what it's worth, and you get that if there is a total loss claim.   With the same example you would get the full $50,000 regardless.

 

That said, the terms are often interchanged, like classic vs. antique automobiles are interchanged, so the only way to know for sure is to contact your insurer.

 

I had state farm's "agreed value" policies on all of my classics. 3 years ago a guy made a right on red and we rear-ended him. Officer assigned him 100% at fault. He had progressive and we dicked around to the point that they finally suggested I total it out on my state Farm "agreed value policy" and then let state Farm go after Flo to get their money back. 

I called my agent and asked them to send me my check for our "agreed value" dollar amount minus the buy back amount. Now I didn't have the car overvalued, we had "agreed" on $8,500 as the amount in the event of it being totalled. Less than I had in it, but fair. They said they'd have to have it appraised to determine the actual value of the car, then they'd give me the amount it appraised for, irregardless of our previously "agreed value" 

I'd already had a classic car appraiser come out and appraise the wrecked car months prior and had already started repairing the car. Since I chose the appraiser and it appraised for almost double the policy value they wouldn't accept that appraisal.

Shorty there after we got a lawyer involved, we took Flo's insulting offer on the car and made up for it on my wife's injury. 

A week later I switched insurance companies for our classics to a company that is supposed to honor our agreed value.

 

[victorialynn2]

10 minutes ago, Plyroadking said:

A week later I switched insurance companies for our classics to a company that is supposed to honor our agreed value.

 

May I ask the company? 

[Buffalowed Bill]

https://www.lloyds.com/lloyds

 

I'm no expert on insurance, but I do believe it when someone said that 99% of everything in the world is insurable, figuratively anyway. Lloyds has been insuring against loss for hundreds of years. They are a specialty company that determines the odds for loss, and then uses that to determine the premiums. The company does it on a per individual basis rather then, one price fits all. I don't know how it might apply here but I would love to find out.

[victorialynn2]

5 minutes ago, Buffalowed Bill said:

https://www.lloyds.com/lloyds

 

I'm no expert on insurance, but I do believe it when someone said that 99% of everything in the world is insurable, figuratively anyway. Lloyds has been insuring against loss for hundreds of years. They are a specialty company that determines the odds for loss, and then uses that to determine the premiums. The company does it on a per individual basis rather then, one price fits all. I don't know how it might apply here but I would love to find out.

I'm pretty sure some classic car policies are underwritten by them. Not sure which ones.

[39BuickEight]

Lloyds is a topic unto its own.  They will absolutely insure anything that a person has a fiduciary interest in, for any peril.  Often their policies are temporary.  The catch is, the application process can be worse than buying a house, and the rate will be very high.  

 

For example, you know the charity events like a golf tournament where they give away stuff like cars for a hole in one?  They will insure against someone getting a hole in one, but only if they know who is playing and after gathering every last bit of info about the course.

 

Lloyds is very interesting.  They even sub out their underwriting to help other carriers sell life insurance to daredevils and other high risk people.

 

I bet they would insure 8 figure autos or autos in high risk and politically unstable countries.

Edited February 9, 2017 by 39BuickEight (see edit history)

[Plyroadking]

3 hours ago, victorialynn2 said:

May I ask the company? 

I went with Grundy, they were less than half the cost of identical coverage from Hagerty, also a friend has Grundy on his car.  He had a check for his agreed value amount 5 days after his car was totalled