Kathy Hann Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 Last weekend I picked up my latest project and now I am the proud owner of a 1916 D45. I have never had a Buick somInstrated here and will have lots of questions. I have been trying to acquire her for 6 months and finally struck the right deal. Been in the same family for 50 years so lots of memories to let go of. I am planning to get it running first and fix the broken bow in the top and have fun before the complete restoration. I am interested in information about details of color and trim as I prefer original. Some of you saw the posting on CL in Miami for her. Attached are my photos and one of an interesting "part" part that was in a box. I may have to reproduce something in McPherson this summer at the summer institute. Thanks for having me in the forum and for any help you can offer. I have been reading the forum posts just for fun. Kathy and Charles Hann 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4Hud Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 Nice looking car. Getting it mechanically in good shape and having fun with it is certainly the way to go, then concern yourself with the next phase(s). It is easy to be overwhelmed with an entire car in pieces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathy Hann Posted January 29, 2017 Author Share Posted January 29, 2017 Thanks for responding. We are excited to get it running. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jp928 Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 Looks terrific, well Done. One question - 'sominstrated' ? jp 26 Rover 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Wiegand Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 The first thing that you need to do is get in contact with Dean Tryon. He puts out the 1915 - 1918 Buick/McLaughlin newsletter. He has been doing the newsletter for going on 20 years now and there are over 200 subscribers worldwide. If you will send me a pm, I will put you two together. You can't beat the newsletter - he only charges $15.00 for two years and it is quarterly. Please post MORE photos - we love photos on here. The more the better. When you do post the photos, please try and get interior shots, both sides of the engine, and dashboard photos. I have a 1916 D-45 that has been in my family since 1963. I have a serious interest in this Buick model. Terry Wiegand South Hutchinson, Kansas terrywiegand@prodigy.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Schramm Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 Kathy & Charles, Where are you located? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathy Hann Posted January 30, 2017 Author Share Posted January 30, 2017 Jp928 I have no idea what I was typing there lol. I am sure that I will have a lot of questions is the bottom line. Thanks for looking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathy Hann Posted January 30, 2017 Author Share Posted January 30, 2017 Larry, we are in Tampa area of Florida. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathy Hann Posted January 30, 2017 Author Share Posted January 30, 2017 Terry, I was hoping to be able to catch up with you. I have seen your posts about your 1916. We go to summer institute in McPherson during the summer. Perhaps we could meet while we are out there this year. A couple of years ago we went to Hutch to the salt mine for fun. My husband is from KC originally. He has always been into old cars. Get him started and he will talk forever. I am almost as bad and I am always the one wanting another project. He wasn't excited about this one but he is coming around. Would love to get the newsletter and look forward to learning more. I will take more pics soon. Thanks, Kathy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C Carl Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 Kathy and Charles , thanks for this "make my month" (or even more than that) , happy surprise of another "Sleeping Beauty" soon to be on the road again ! Great to see re-discovered Brass , Nickel , or Classic Era cars on their way to resurrection ! Please let us know your level of knowledge and experience with cars of this period , so as to more efficiently engage in dialogue. While you start your plans , if the upholstry is leather , liberally slather it with Lexol conditioner right now and frequently, as you get closer to that first drive. Without knowing your depth of knowledge about reviving cars that old , and particularly OHV Buicks , first admonition is , do not think of trying to start that car without experienced guidance if you have not been there before. If the engine has been kept running, of course that is another fortunate matter. Very good to see that you understand the "enjoy driving it for a while" strategy. We all look forward to following your progress. Thanks again ! - Carl 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Wiegand Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 Carl, I really appreciate your well thought out response to Kathy and Charles' 'new' Buick. There certainly is a lot to know about one of these automobiles from this era. Maybe we can get Lamar (sorry 'bout that Mr. Earl) to move this down to the Pre-War Buick section so that the folks who really know about this era of Buicks can help the Hann's with all of their questions about their newly adopted OLD Buick. Terry Wiegand South Hutchinson, Kansas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C Carl Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 Yes , Terry , I have been surprised by the degree to which some specialists focus on a particular aspect of a hobby. I have encountered guys who just immerse themselves in make specific forums. Not making a value judgement on how people choose to spend their precious and limited time. There are probably entomologists who specialize in , say , the 5th XYZ or whatever branch capillary in the left forewing of a such and such dragonfly. They then are the WORLD authority in their field. Not to say that we all do not have certain knowledge others need to know. I have a feeling Kathy and Charles will be around these superb forums , (is the proper plural "forae" , "fora" , "fori" ? Uh , my Latin conjugations are virtually MIA , and pale in comparison with my merely fluent Spanish. Just curious. But it is through obsession with apparent trivia that occasionally produces surprising insights. I am a part time amateur astronomical telescope engineer going back about 60 years . A part time amateur cosmologist too , now for over 65 years. Very satisfying to have something to offer the pros from time to time. Also a real profoundly thrilling experience to see some cutting-edge new insights published , in places almost verbatim , which I had talked about in a vacuum years earlier. This done with very little exposure on my part to evolutionary "prior art" , generated as original thought after 45 or so years of dedication. I was stunned some years back when I found out that a bank of Cray Supers running long haul - months - validated the feasibility of something I also had seen in a brain flashbulb enjoyed a couple years earlier while luxuriating in the comfort of my living room armchair.) , for quite some time to come , to the mutual benefit of us all. Anyway , this all by way of thanking you for the "well thought out" compliment ! Although I bacame fascinated with "real" old cars 70 years ago , in this field I am not really well versed. I'm a mere student at the feet of you monumental , full immersion experts. I couldn't carry your feeler gauges ! What an honor to learn from you guys , and to have your help to properly operate my '24 and '27 Cads. The real professional and advanced amateur mechanics , machinists , engineers , artisans , tradesmen , and all aspects of automotive careers including but hardly limited to , salesmen , executives , insurers , attorneys, designers , tool and die men , and every specialist who deals in every possible component and subcomponent and accessory , and on and on , generously share their knowledge with each other , and us appreciative civilians. Thanks to all of you. I am am on a real roll today. Several months of sad decline suddenly culminated in my 5th terrified trip to the E.R. due to a cardiac emergency. Good news. They just took me off one of my meds. What a difference ! At last I can drink caffeine again ! Scheduled tests and follow up may clear me for the return trip from Las Vegas where my '27 languishes , waiting for its feeble pilot to again double clutch it on down the line. 2700 miles to and around 'Vegas last year , I hope to double up on that this year , and hopefully double up on the great wonderful people I met while on the road last year. And yes. Yes indeed , Terry. I certainly do concur. This indeed calls for the specialists. Whew !!!! What a bunch of babble just to say "good idea". Somewhat like the Danish journalist and the Great Greenland Seal Hunter. Didn't I tell that tale somewhere else here ? - Salud ! - Carl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathy Hann Posted February 5, 2017 Author Share Posted February 5, 2017 Ok. It has been quite a week but I finally was able to get some pictures of her with natural light. I appreciate everyone's interest. I took a bunch including the parts in the box that came with her. She was partially disassembled. It had been restored in the 70s I believe which is when this family got it. They were in Key West and used it in parades. The gentleman that owned her thought he would do a resto about 15 years ago but got in over his head so it has been sitting. They said he was trying to find one part to get it running again and he and his buddy had a fight and that was the end of it. Looks like it will take more than one part to get it running. Lots of work but it is so rewarding. I appreciate all the input.all things to consider for the project that lies ahead.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROD W Posted February 5, 2017 Share Posted February 5, 2017 Kathy, It looks like you have a great project there. I was going to ask if the engine was free and turning over as that is always a good start, but then looking at your photo,s it appears that the shaft for the crank handle is missing. Often a frozen water pump or a stuck distributor drive gear/shaft can prevent an engine from turning over Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Wiegand Posted February 5, 2017 Share Posted February 5, 2017 Kathy, thanks for posting all the photos. You most definitely have a project on your hands here. What you have is a 1917 D-45. The engine number confirms this along with the rocker arm posts. The 1916 models had a slotted rocker arm shaft and a grease cup in the top center of the post, The 1917 models went to a solid shaft and a drilled rocker arm pivot bushing with an oil wick in the arm. Terry Wiegand South Hutchinson, Kansas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathy Hann Posted February 5, 2017 Author Share Posted February 5, 2017 Can you tell by the frame serial number if it too is a 1917? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F&J Posted February 5, 2017 Share Posted February 5, 2017 32 minutes ago, Kathy Hann said: Can you tell by the frame serial number if it too is a 1917? The Clark/Kimes big book does not give starting/ending numbers for the 1917 "D45" for some reason. but... the 1916 Ending number for a D45 is 254501, so it is later than 1916....and.. starting number in 1918 is 343,783, so if we dare use common sense?, it is a 1917. . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathy Hann Posted February 5, 2017 Author Share Posted February 5, 2017 Thanks Rod. We haven't had a chance yet to see if it will turn over yet. I think he sprayed some wd40 in the cylinders for a start just to let it start soaking in. Hoping for the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathy Hann Posted February 5, 2017 Author Share Posted February 5, 2017 I love logic. We were wondering if it perhaps had an engine swap at some point since it had the 16 tag on it from Pennsylvania and the owner thought it was a 16. I don't think he knew much about it at all. We are used to later model cars but will learn about this one too as we go. We feel we got a good deal on it and I wanted a brass era car so I am fine with a 17. At least it will be 100 this year. Something really cool about that. I was using the logic that the pikes peak race started in 16 so I thought it was perfect to take her up there. Charles is pretty understanding so I bet he will still let me work toward that. Kathy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROD W Posted February 5, 2017 Share Posted February 5, 2017 Kathy, Here,s a list of Serial and Engine numbers. Both your serial and engine numbers fall into 1917. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathy Hann Posted February 6, 2017 Author Share Posted February 6, 2017 Thank you Rod. Is there any way to tell what color it should be? I would think that the color combo is not correct. Thanks, Kathy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROD W Posted February 6, 2017 Share Posted February 6, 2017 Seventy Years of Buick by George H Dammann says that the D45 came out in Buick special green Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzcarnerd Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 Remember that Buick production in that era went mid year to mid year so there will often be a discrepancy between model year and first registration year. Supposedly the new models came out in time for the summer agricultural shows. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Schramm Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 (edited) Mid year really means that the new car announcement date was usually in the middle of September. It was at that time that the crops were in for the farmers and they had money in their pocket. The Month of September is the new car announcement date for as long as I remember. A 1915 model year car would have been released to the public in September 1914. Only in recent years a new model might come out at a different time or the model year build would be extended into the new year and that was usually because of availability, emissions, or a large change over from one model to another or changing assembly plants. Edited February 8, 2017 by Larry Schramm (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathy Hann Posted February 8, 2017 Author Share Posted February 8, 2017 Good thoughts gentleman. That might explain the confusion. Good to know that the model year when we start looking for parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Schramm Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 (edited) To add confusion, depending on the state, the car might have a title with a year date different than the model year of the vehicle. Like in the above example the vehicle could be a 1915 that was built in October 1914 and delivered to the dealer and sold in November 1914 to a customer. The title for that vehicle could read 1914, the sale date depending on the state or 1915 if that state used the model year. Edited February 8, 2017 by Larry Schramm (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzcarnerd Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 Yes, my 1965 Pontiac has a build date of the first week of September 1964. The block was cast in late July. I don't know when it was sold new though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hwellens Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 Some additional Buick data: Buick data.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Schramm Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 44 minutes ago, hwellens said: Some additional Buick data: Buick data.pdf And the information is not consistent. No trucks are listed for '15, '16, '18 and Buick built trucks those years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hwellens Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 This information is taken from a 1926 Blue Book for "gasoline passenger cars". I think that is why no truck information is in it. There are no electric or steam cars listed either. I think it is consistent based on the title of the book. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HAROLD (HAL) BEVERAGE Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 I AM HAL BEVERAGE, I FOUND A D45 BUICK CONVERTED TOURING CAR INTO A WOOD BED PICK UP, LOOKS PRETTY NICE TOO. BEEN SETTING SINCE 1950, HAS A CALIFORNIA LICENSE 1947 WASHED IT & . GOTARMOR ALL WIPES TO CLEAN IT & POLISH IT, DID A GREAT JOB ON THAT ON THAT OLD PAINT JOB. MOTOR WAS FROZEN, GOT A SPECIAL CHEMICAL THAT WILL RELEASE IT IN TWO DAYS, WAITING TO HAPPEN. ENJOY THAT TOURING CAR BEFORE YOU START RESTORING IT, BEST TO YOU, HAL BEVERAGE, NOW A MEMBER OF ACCA. PAID $5000 FOR IT, THINK I STOLE IT, FELLOW JUST WANTED IT OUT OF HIS HAIR & INTO MINE, HAHA!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Schramm Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 10 hours ago, HAROLD (HAL) BEVERAGE said: I AM HAL BEVERAGE, I FOUND A D45 BUICK CONVERTED TOURING CAR INTO A WOOD BED PICK UP, LOOKS PRETTY NICE TOO. BEEN SETTING SINCE 1950, HAS A CALIFORNIA LICENSE 1947 WASHED IT & . GOTARMOR ALL WIPES TO CLEAN IT & POLISH IT, DID A GREAT JOB ON THAT ON THAT OLD PAINT JOB. MOTOR WAS FROZEN, GOT A SPECIAL CHEMICAL THAT WILL RELEASE IT IN TWO DAYS, WAITING TO HAPPEN. ENJOY THAT TOURING CAR BEFORE YOU START RESTORING IT, BEST TO YOU, HAL BEVERAGE, NOW A MEMBER OF ACCA. PAID $5000 FOR IT, THINK I STOLE IT, FELLOW JUST WANTED IT OUT OF HIS HAIR & INTO MINE, HAHA!!! Can you post some pictures? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidAU Posted July 28, 2017 Share Posted July 28, 2017 Hi Hal What's the name of this chemical that will free up an engine in a couple of days? I've got a motor that has been sitting since 1959 and I think that the only way I'll get it free is to drill the tops of the pistons and break them out so if your stuff works I'd love to know about it. I've tried lots of different stuff including 50/50 ATF and Acetone. No go so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted July 28, 2017 Share Posted July 28, 2017 Might vibration do any good? Just thinking out loud - no idea how or where to apply it at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted July 28, 2017 Share Posted July 28, 2017 There was an article on Prewarcar recently about freeing up a stuck Herschell-Spillman engine. The gentleman who did it used electrolysis with a lye (i.e. caustic soda) solution. It supposedly worked a charm on an engine that had been stuck for many years and had defied all other treatments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BillP Posted July 29, 2017 Share Posted July 29, 2017 Caustic soda can tear things up if you aren't careful. Mr. Google tells us: As a strong alkali, sodium hydroxide will attack and dissolve the following metals: Tin Aluminum zinc (cadmium behaves closely enough to zinc that all i've written aplies to it too) It will also attack chromium plating and copper, although ammonia is far better at dissolving copper: It will therefore attack and if not totally dissolve, then certainly weaken brazing and soft solder joints. The reaction with those metals releases hydrogen gas. Sodium hydroxide will not react with iron or steel, in fact the alkaline conditions will not allow rust to grow; if you make the conditions oxidizing, the black magnetic oxide will grow in its stead; hence the use of alkaline solutions of sodium nitrate for hot bluing baths. For short periods of time, freshly cut or cleaned steel can be kept bright by keeping it in sodium hydroxide solution or solid. Not to mention what it does to your skin, eyes, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacerman Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 Perhaps the quoted reference was to lye, but electrolysis is usually done with washing soda ( sodium carbonate). The lye might have been useful for parts where all of the oil and grease had not yet been removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 Yes, Washing soda. Baking soda will work in a pinch. The soda is only used to make the water conductive, so I imagine caustic soda would work, but I cant think of a good reason to use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 I am only repeating what I saw demonstrated. The engine in question – it was actually a block from an early V-8 Herschell-Spillman – had a piston stuck in it that had defied removal by any conventional means for many years. I am fully aware of how dangerous caustic soda is and that it will dissolve aluminum etc... it isn't something to be used lightly. But, in this case, with an iron block and an iron piston — unconnected to the original aluminum crankcase, it apparently worked well. Caustic soda does attack rust so perhaps used in conjunction with electrolysis (a technique I am very familiar with) it may be useful in limited circumstances. I sometimes get the impression that many "old car" enthusiasts have no conception of the challenges involved in saving REALLY old cars where replacement parts are NEVER going to be found. This is not a technique I would have thought of but right now I have a set of 4 jugs from a 1908/1909 Mitchell sitting in my shop. One has a piston and rod stuck in it and it may very well have been stuck there for the last 70 years. Two years of sitting with the much lauded "acetone & ATF" in the cylinder has had absolutely no effect. So, should I feel like trying something else, this seems as good a possibility as anything. If I do it, I'll build a wooden frame to hold the jug straight and upright. If you are interested in seeing how this worked, go to Prewarcar... it was the "PWC workshop" feature a week or two ago. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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