Gary W

1937 Buick Model 48: RESTORATION HAS BEGUN! (Photo)

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Isn't there a cap you can just take off to see if the gas is all the way up at that pin? It shouldn't be up there. It shouldn't be anywhere near that high.

 

Carburetors that are running with the float stuck, sunk, or just way too high usually have gas running out of the main discharge tubes down inside the booster venturis. If the car is not prone to backfiring (so you can look safely), look down the throat with the engine running on full-warm slow idle. There should be no fuel coming out of the discharge tubes, or anything else you can see. At a hot idle, all the fuel should be coming from the idle jets just BELOW the throttle where you can't see it. If you see fuel running out of something in there, the float is misadjusted, stuck, or sunk.

 

I have read that sometimes float levels need to be lowered when using ethanol blends. I'm skeptical. I wonder what Carbking thinks about that.

 

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Gary,

Sorry to hear of your carb issue. Amazing to find an NOS carburetor. I would agree with Matthew. Too long for a carb to site unused. I have sent a number of carburetors (Chevrolet, Ford and Buick) out for rebuilt to a business in Florida. They come back just super. You may have heard of them. Daytona Auto Parts. I would highly recommend them if you need a rebuild. Good turnaround time as well. https://daytonaparts.com/

Best,

Dave

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see now I lean towards all my '38 Carbs do it and I don't worry all that much about it and yours seems about like mine. but surely Buick didn't mean for it to do it from the factory...so up to you...

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Gary,

 

You rebuilt the whole darned car! Working on the simple carb isnt brain surgery.

As suggested above, even though the carb is NOS, the key letter is "O".

For one, it probably needs new fresh gaskets. Check the float level and needle and seat.

Since the car runs OK, there is a good chance no adjustments are needed other than perhaps float level.

Everything is well covered in the manual.

 

Go for it.

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Not normal. Didn't come from the factory that way. My concern would be a fire starting and ruining all your hard work and less about oil dilution, although, make no mistake, that is also important.

 

I'm with Mr. MCHinson on this because my first thought was the old & original gaskets that are not compatible with modern gas containing ethyl alcohol. I thought you said you had this carb checked out by Mr. CarbKing who installed modern gaskets in it for you? Float level may also need attention, as others have stated.

 

Please take care of this gremlin before driving any further - for your own safety if nothing else.

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4 hours ago, 1967 - 1997 Riviera said:

You said you had this carb checked out by Mr. CarbKing who installed modern gaskets in it for you?

 

Yes.. Jon did put all new gaskets in the NOS Carter  (WCD 2 bbl 608S)  before he shipped it to me.  He also spent a ton of time with me on the phone and via e-mail educating me and explaining why I should swap out the old Marvel.  His knowledge of these carburetors is unmatched and I am so grateful he took the time with me and got me all hooked up with this Carter.   The car starts so much easier, idles super smooth and has plenty of power and pickup.  There is a noticeable difference between the original Marvel and this later-model Carter.  (I think this Carter 608S was factory equipment for Buick Series 40 - 50 in 1941, 1942 and 1946. Please correct me if I have this detail wrong)

 

That is precisely why I didn't hit the panic button here, I just wanted to know if this is something that happens with these Buicks.

 

Today I received a private message and I was introduced to the term  "Hot Soak".    It was explained to me like this:

 

" It is  unlikely that rebuilding the carburetor will cure any wetness at the carburetor mounting gaskets.  This is something that occurs after engine shut-off, when the engine temperature rises for the first few minutes and can cause the gasoline in the bowl to percolate and dump down onto the closed throttle plates, soaking the base stack with raw gas.  This can be exacerbated by excess fuel pump pressure or by using "high octane" modern gas, as premium blends boil at lower temperatures than 87 octane.  The "Hot Soak" is not a carburetor problem."  

 

All I ever put in the Buick's tank is 94 octane Sunoco Ultra.  I think I'll try the 87 octane next, and continually monitor the carburetor.  Like I said, it is not dripping or pooling around the base, just the gasket stack is "moist", and I wasn't sure if this was a common occurrence with the Buick.  I did take Matt's advice and checked my mounting nuts.  All three loosened up since being installed and the gasket crushed down a bit.  So I tightened up the base nice and snug again.  I'm going to check the float level next and adjust accordingly.  Hopefully the combination will help alleviate the wet gasket in the future.

 

As always, thanks for the advice and all the suggestions.  I'll let you know how I make out once I burn this tank of 94 and fill up with 87 at the next fill up.

 

Enjoy the game!

 

Gary

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I had the same "loose nut" issue with my Special after it had been on the road a while. Tightening them solved the problem. That hot soak explanation makes perfect sense

I missed the fact that the carb had been re-gasketed.

WOW! 94 octne in a 6.1 CR engine? You probably are confusing the heck out of it.

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All:

This explains the issues I had with my 37 on the return trip from Wisconsin in 2017. Throughout the trip I had tried to get as much non ethanol as possible. (very difficult going through corn states) Many of the locations listed on the "Pure gas" site only would stock 91octane or better in non ethanol fuel. One place near me has ALL grades of non ethanol. Even our current 87 octane would have been considered racing fuel in the late 1930s. ("or by using "high octane" modern gas, as premium blends boil at lower temperatures than 87 octane." ). When using ethanol blends I would usually do the recommended amount of STARTRON and several oz. of Marvel Mystery Oil on a fill up. My one friend says he throws in a pint of Diesel to the same effect on fill up of his 1927 Master 6. 

 On our trip out through the mountains of central PA in 90+ degree day= bad vapor lock. I had filled with a 91 octane non ethanol. 

Through the flat lands of Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, and Wisconsin no problems. Of course now we had only ethanol fuel with my usual cocktail of additives. On our return trip I was able to fill up just before leaving Wisconsin with a 93 octane. No problem through the remaining flat states. Some where in Ohio I filled up at a Speedway with 87 ethanol. Immediately afterward the engine lost power and seemed as if there was a miss. (Problem described on a post at that time.) Later I found out that a 3/8" long section of the top of the piston came off and hammered the spark plug electrode closed. I limped along until our overnight stay at Akron O.I changed points and such and things seemed to run better. But for the last 150 miles there was that miss. I did not discover the mashed plug until we stayed at my daughters outside of Indiana PA.

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I changed out the bad plug and changed the oil because of over 200 miles of dilution. Before leaving Indiana PA. I filled up at their only non ethanol station with 93 octane. 2 1/2 hours later as we started up the last 3 mountains on route 30 (90" degrees) there was the vapor lock again. At the top of Sideling Hill I had to let things rest and cool off. Also it was hard to get started. Prior to that the engine idled a bit rough but the miss was gone. Well, we made it home but the exhaust manifold gasket blew pulling the hills on the Lincoln Highway to Chambersburg.

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Edited by dibarlaw
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Gary - is the puddling actually fuel, or is it grease?

 

That carburetor has a spot of lubrication on the counter-shaft, and I did not replace the original grease. It may have melted with heat, and a bit leaked out. I think the carb top may have a caption stating "oil under screw". This lubricates the countershaft, to prevent wear.

 

Gasoline should not be present at this location during running (or it wouldn't run ;) ). Gas may be present for a short time at this location when the engine has been shut off when hot, because of the nature of today's fuel. As far as carb gaskets being damp, again a function of modern fuel.

 

I am happy to read of the improvement in running over the Marvel. I would have been very disappointed if there was no improvement (as you would have been).

 

And to those amazed at finding an NOS carb, don't be; but as mentioned by others in this thread, new gaskets as well as compressed air through the passages (spiders) should be done before use. The important issues of NOS are: (1) no wear, and (2) no cobbling by "Dr. Goodpliers" (the evil twin of Mr. Goodwrench).

 

And should you have additional carb issues, don't hesitate to call: (573) 392-7378 (9-4 Mon-Tues central time).

 

And as others have mentioned, stop spending money on 94 octane. The lowest octane from a "name brand" station, hopefully without ethanol is what you should use. Even 87 octane is too high. A couple of degrees timing advance might prove beneficial.

 

Jon. 

 

 

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Hello Jon!!

 

Thank you for your advice, always appreciated!

I didn't want to bother you until I checked in here to determine if this "hot soak"  was something other Buick owners have experienced.

 

I'm pretty sure after reading others comments that the leak up at the countershaft is just as you say.....  lubrication running out.

 

I will try the lower octane fuel at my next fill up.  I always figured the higher octane fuel MUST be better, so I put it in every vehicle I own.  Never gave it a second thought.

 

I have not used any kind of additive in the Buick like Larry mentioned above.  (Marvel's, Diesel, ATF, Startron).  Maybe they have merit?  

Do they reduce the "high octane effect"  or maybe better said,  raise the boiling point  of the high test fuels?  Do they help with vapor lock and this "Hot Soak" phenomena?  Just spitballing here.

 

(** I DO add about one cup of ATF to every 10 gallons of gasoline in my Model "A" Fords.  I was told it helps lubricate the valves.  Been doing it for over 25 years.  The "L-Head" seems to like it.   But I run the Buick clean.)

 

* Tighten up the carburetor mounting nuts

* Change the fuel to an 87 octane

* Advance the timing a few degrees

* Additives???

 

Love these discussions!

 

Gary

 

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Gary,

Matthew is right.  A NOS carb that has been sitting on the shelf for so many years has gaskets that are dry and the rubber/neoprene parts have also dried out.  With this new "Gasahol" that they are selling today, this is one of the downsides of this fuel.  It is designed to burn with less emissions and they have beefed it up with elements to keep fuel injection systems clean.  BUT it plays hell with carburetors. 

 

If you have a good carburetor contact in your area, consult with him (or her) regarding having the carb rebuilt with modern gaskets and parts.  There should be no "weeping" of fuel anywhere on a fresh carburetor.  The fact that it is weeping through the base gasket and out the shaft (pin) on the side telegraphs that there is internal leaking.  Snugging down the nuts on the base will not stop the leak as it is leaking internally.  It sure didn't take long for this great fuel that we have at out disposal to  play  havoc with your new carb. 

 

You may want to look into a source for alcohol free fuel if they sell it in your neck of the woods.  Not cheap but it solves the problem.  There are sources for that gas or talk to your carb guy about other alternatives that you can add to the pump gas once you get the carb rebuilt.  The big problem with this crappy gas is that cars sitting are subject to the alcohol eating away at the pot metal carbs, gaskets  and gumming up the internals,  eventually leading to poor running and even failure. 

 

Unless you live in Eastern Arizona, or other areas in the country that sell alcohol free fuels, we are screwed with this crappy gas.  It was not designed with the car hobby in mind.  The EPA and their regulators could give a rip about our old cars.  Bureaucrats/environmentalists  are extremely myopic on this subject. 

 

Don't let it pass as it could lead to much larger issues, especially  if the leaking gets worse.

 

Good luck and let us know how it works out.

 

Randy 

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In the UK I don't think we have as much ethanol in our gasoline. The ethanal does destroy solder in brass tanks and some gaskets. It plays havoc in the bronze carb on my 1903 Crestmobile and corrodes the flutes in the jets. For my old cars and motorcycles that don't do loads of miles I take the ethanol out of the fuel by mixing water with the gasoline in a plastic container. The ethanol is absorbed into the water and the gasoline poured out.

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I put in a couple of drops of food colouring into the water and fill the water up to the red tape line on the side of the plastic container.

The gasoline is then poured in and the container shaken and then left overnight.

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The next day the water and ethanol can be poured away and you are left with ethanol free fuel.

 

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Now that is an interesting solution for getting the ethyl alcohol out of gasoline, at least for small batches.

 

And since alcohols, whether ethanol or methanol, are hygroscopic - meaning they absorb and are miscible with water - they also corrode ferrous-based fuel line components by carrying water into and through the fuel system. This is why, for small engines used in lawn & garden equipment, one should always run them until they are completely out of fuel before putting them away for the winter.

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My old cars and motorbikes do run a lot better on the gasoline with the ethanol removed. I also seem to get more miles per gallon, although I have not checked this accurately.

For any UK AACA members reading this: I tried doing this with BP Ultra and there seemed to be no ethanol in this petrol (gasoline), as the water level in the container did not rise after it had been well shaken and left for 24hrs.

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Yup, I tried this today as an experiment. Worked great! It may not get all of the ethanol out, but if it lowers the % from 10 to 1 or 2 percent I am happy. I will start "production" this Spring in 4 gallon batches. At least it will cover the local touring. And if they shove E15 down our throats, a real possibility here in MD, we have a solution. As it were.

 

Cheers, Dave

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Hey all-

I need some help. I have a '38 Model 48 - two door Victoria Coupe. 

Several years ago I disassembled the car, not thinking it would take five years to complete the work. #longstory

However, I have my interior guy working on putting the seats in and can't seem to figure out how it goes back together. And I think I am missing a piece  or two - or three.

Uploading photos.

 

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Here's some photos that may help:  (These are sized down from their original 12MB..  if you need one e-mailed at full resolution just let me know)

 

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Underside of the front seat bottom assembly.  The black rails are the rear of the seat that slide on the rear rollers, the forward rails have the holes for the tooth wheel.

 

 

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This shows the floor components in place just before installing that seat bottom assembly.

All these thread directly into the floor.

 

 

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When the seat bottom is slid into the rear retainer, you slide it forward and bolt the forward retainer in position to lock down the unit.

 

Hope it helps!

Gary

 

 

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Here's another of the floor parts.  That "triangle" shaped part on the outside of the main rod goes in last, after your seat bottom is slid in position.

 

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I used new 5/16 - 24  X 1" bolts to secure all the components to the floor.

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The hold down might have to be shimmed so that the seat will move freely. Clamped tightly, it can be impossible ti adjust the seat

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Any further updates to your project? Are the seats in and are you busy driving it?

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Hello everyone!  

Yes, the seats were installed on October 19, 2018, and I have been driving her as much as I can!  

This morning I went for a bagel run, and the odometer turned 700 miles.  I REALLY love driving this car!!

 

Just this weekend, the NJ Chapter of the Buick Club of America held it's annual car show.  This was the first time I took her out to an actual car show.  

Members cars were not judged, but we were parked in a prominent spot along the entrance.  The show was nicely staged and enjoyed a good attendance.

 

I do have a few finishing touches to take care of:  Rear bumper stone guard, Engine pans and fabricate and then install the rear window shade.  I'll get to them, but every time I get in the garage, I find myself driving away!  

 

I'd like to share a couple of photos from the show.  I was told by many people in attendance that I should explore getting a Junior / Senior at Hershey.  It's a great feeling when all your hard work is appreciated.

 

 

DSC_9330.thumb.jpeg.23ea45ee447acd0672a0598209db0ef6.jpeg

I arrived at 7:00 and helped the members with the set up.  Later I judged the 70's-80's class.  Fun day.

You don't realize how much work these clubs put into running a successful show.  It is tedious work, and the guys really deserve a lot of credit for making it look so easy.

That's a 1941 four-door sedan next to me.

 

 

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My interior

 

 

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Just turned 700.  So far, very quiet, trouble-free miles!

 

 

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1915 Buick

 

 

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1940 Convertible

 

 

 

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I don't know the year of the 20-foot land yacht next to me, but it had only 19,000 original miles on it.  

 

 

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Our "tails"

 

 

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Roadmaster Convertible.  Stunning!

 

 

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This morning on my way out.  All waxed and polished from the show!

 

 

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She's getting better everyday!  

 

Thanks for checking in!  

I'll keep you posted as I finish up the last doo-dads!

 

Have a great evening out there.... appreciate you all

Gary

 

 

 

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I’ve been spending less time on the forum overall, so decided to take some time on this hot, muggy day to get caught up.  Good work.  One question is whether we will see this wonderful Model 48 at the BCA meet in Strongsville, OH next July?  After seeing this meticulous detail and the thorough photos and explanations, it would be nice for some of us following along to be able to meet you and the car in person and shake your hand.

 

On the fuel note, up here, only the premium fuel has no ethanol.  That allows us something for our vintage autos, small engines and boats.  It costs more, but in my mind it’s worth it.  Of course, I don’t have engine compartments one could otherwise eat off, so I haven’t concerned myself with that too much.  Of course, I also haven’t started actually using the 1929 at all.

 

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Gary:

 The 20' land yacht is a 1969 LeSabre.  I had a white 69 LeSabre convertible from 1973-1979. Fond memories...

We had hopped on getting out to the NJ meet last weekend but our plate has gotten full as of late. Hopefully we can meet up at Strongsville next year.

 The side view stance of your car is just perfect. When I started working on my car seriously back in 2005 I sent the rear springs out to be re-arched.  I also removed the rusted out spring covers. It was not until I got back to the car in 2011 and reinstalled the rear end and such that I noticed that the car now sits lower in the rear. 

139730948_DSCF2603(1024x540).thumb.jpg.07bafb57a188ba85af74cab7d88d8461.jpg I still need to replace the rear shocks.

 

 When are you going to stripe your wheels? At the time I had mine done there was a discussion about 2 or 3 stripe (thin wide thin) as there were examples of a few 37s that had 2 stripes.  I wish I had gone with the 3 stripes. So far the wheels are the only things that are now the correct Hampton Gray.  Except for the original sections on the firewall and all the door jambs. Some day...…. I will get rid of my lousy 1970s black enamel paint job. Someday...…..

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On ‎7‎/‎14‎/‎2019 at 7:46 PM, Gary W said:

Hello everyone!  

Yes, the seats were installed on October 19, 2018, and I have been driving her as much as I can!  

This morning I went for a bagel run, and the odometer turned 700 miles.  I REALLY love driving this car!!

 

Just this weekend, the NJ Chapter of the Buick Club of America held it's annual car show.  This was the first time I took her out to an actual car show.  

Members cars were not judged, but we were parked in a prominent spot along the entrance.  The show was nicely staged and enjoyed a good attendance.

 

I do have a few finishing touches to take care of:  Rear bumper stone guard, Engine pans and fabricate and then install the rear window shade.  I'll get to them, but every time I get in the garage, I find myself driving away!  

 

I'd like to share a couple of photos from the show.  I was told by many people in attendance that I should explore getting a Junior / Senior at Hershey.  It's a great feeling when all your hard work is appreciated.

 

 

DSC_9330.thumb.jpeg.23ea45ee447acd0672a0598209db0ef6.jpeg

I arrived at 7:00 and helped the members with the set up.  Later I judged the 70's-80's class.  Fun day.

You don't realize how much work these clubs put into running a successful show.  It is tedious work, and the guys really deserve a lot of credit for making it look so easy.

That's a 1941 four-door sedan next to me.

 

 

DSC_9389.thumb.jpeg.626358978df7b49fc84620572c559501.jpeg

My interior

 

 

IMG_5528.thumb.jpeg.ef53f538319f469fc7460dda171bbf8f.jpeg

Just turned 700.  So far, very quiet, trouble-free miles!

 

 

DSC_9355.thumb.jpeg.f4016195acf0cbeb03a007d0c72049e0.jpeg

1915 Buick

 

 

DSC_9344.thumb.jpeg.10e3e54ff3d53e9864641dbd1d3a4ddd.jpeg

1940 Convertible

 

 

 

DSC_9393.thumb.jpeg.16c6af7cc47500532a1ee4772a533b2c.jpeg

I don't know the year of the 20-foot land yacht next to me, but it had only 19,000 original miles on it.  

 

 

DSC_9376.thumb.jpeg.8f62d550f5a53d5f08a41ab3a722cdca.jpeg

Our "tails"

 

 

DSC_9366.thumb.jpeg.d88e52d3c0b180e581e201733d68e956.jpeg

Roadmaster Convertible.  Stunning!

 

 

DSC_9405.thumb.jpeg.9e509946c05bef33480534c32d64b07a.jpeg

This morning on my way out.  All waxed and polished from the show!

 

 

DSC_9399.thumb.jpeg.8465cd6d5087d743fd2235bd255c977f.jpeg

She's getting better everyday!  

 

Thanks for checking in!  

I'll keep you posted as I finish up the last doo-dads!

 

Have a great evening out there.... appreciate you all

Gary

 

 

 

 

Some questions for you:

 

1) You had to expect this one sooner or later. What kind of oil are you using in your engine?

 

2) Have you decided whether or not you will add an oil bypass filter to the engine?

 

3) You mention in your post that your car is "All waxed and polished from the show!" What kind of wax are you using? The black sheet metal is lustrous, like I remember cars being when I was a kid.

 

4) After driving it for 700 miles, do you have any second thoughts about not putting radial tires, instead of bias tires, on it?

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