Gary W

1937 Buick Model 48: RESTORATION HAS BEGUN! (Photo)

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You want the wire from the battery on the short terminal. The switch contact rotates around that contact, so I think it should always be in contact  with that terminal and the other, longer, terminal be switched (If that makes sense).

Also, the switch can be assembled incorrectly. Be sure the contact block is oriented so thet the rotating end of the sliding part is always in solid contact with the terminal.

Here is what happened when I did it wrong - I had an intermittent where the engine would just quit for no reason. You can see the burned bit on the top of the left contact. This was wrong.

Unfortunately, I dont remember exactly how I determined which is the correct way to orient the contact block

 

I hope this makes sense.

 

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Gary,

Here's a couple of pictures of the tired old kick panels in my '37 Special.  As you can see, the screws do show.  The top side is just cut straight across and not attached.  I'm not sure if the edge at the firewall is even attached as it is concealed by the firewall pad.  Hope this helps.  I continue to be amazed by your progress.  Your documentation of your restoration will be an enormous help to me in my own project.

Bill

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Thanks guys!  Exactly what I needed!

 

 

 

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Here is the new panel butting up against the windlace, but I was a bit hesitant to start making holes for screws until I knew for sure.

 

 

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Here's the ignition wiring.  Both the wires with the blue tape attach to the switch.  Both are yellow with red cross-tracers, ;though one is longer.

I did not dismantle the switch.  It is as it was and it worked so I think the internal guts are fine.  Just don't want to mess up the wiring.

Edited by Gary W (see edit history)

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2 hours ago, Bill3747 said:

Here's a couple of pictures of the tired old kick panels in my '37 Special.  As you can see, the screws do show.  The top side is just cut straight across and not attached.  I'm not sure if the edge at the firewall is even attached as it is concealed by the firewall pad.

 

What about the floor edge? Do I see nails or screws or something down there? Or, are the screws along the windlace the only visible fasteners?

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I made an assumption that only screws were used on the kick panels without digging through all the crud to check.  The last screw along the door edge is about 1"  above the floor.  There is no apparent attachment along the bottom 6" section.  Then about 1 1/2" up from floor and again about 3" before the firewall pad there is a 1/2" nail used.  Picture attached.  Sorry for the incomplete information.

Bill

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You really cant mess the wiring at the switch much. I think the "out" terminal of the switch is longer so you can add acessories that you want switched on along with the ignition. If you can tell which wire is from the battery, I'd attach that to the short terminal of the switch.

When I opened the ignition switch to check it, I found that the plastic block had wear and there was some pitting of the contacts. I touched it on the belt sander to clean it up, and thus assembled it wrong the first time. I found that the switch from my parts car was worn the same.

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Gary, 

 

The ignition switch is a simple open/close switch. When it is "on" the two terminals are connected. When it is "off" the connection is broken physically. It does not matter which side you put the two wires on. The important thing is just to connect any accessories that you want to be controlled by the switch to be on the terminal that is not connected to the battery wire. If an accessory is connected to the same side as the battery wire, it will always be hot and you will need to remember to turn it off to avoid a dead battery.

 

On my 1937 Century, the battery wire is connected to the terminal closest to the driver's side of the car and the radio is attached to the terminal on the passenger side of the switch so that the radio is turned off when you switch off the ignition.

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19 hours ago, LAS VEGAS DAVE said:

If it helps anything my stock switch is up to start the car and down to turn it off.

 

Interesting, my '39 is the opposite - up is off and down is on.

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OK...So the wire labelled "BATT" is basically the "hot" wire, and the one labelled "GAUGE" would be the side to attach the clock, radio...  (fuel gauge?)

Actually, you probably want the clock hooked up to the battery side as well?

Edited by Gary W (see edit history)

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My 39 Roadmaster has a LeBaron Bonney kit, also. (Someone else installed it.)  The kick panels have concealed fasteners.  (See attached photo.)  The passenger side also has a map pocket.  My ignition switch is just like jvelde's.

 

Thanks for your restoration documentation!

 

 

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9 minutes ago, Gary W said:

OK...So the wire labelled "BATT" is basically the "hot" wire, and the one labelled "GAUGE" would be the side to attach the clock, radio...  (fuel gauge?)

On the '39 the left post of the fuel gauge feeds the ignition negative wire and the positive wire comes from the right post of the ammeter (battery).

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20 minutes ago, Gary W said:

OK...So the wire labelled "BATT" is basically the "hot" wire, and the one labelled "GAUGE" would be the side to attach the clock, radio...  (fuel gauge?)

 

Yes. That should be correct. If I understand the wiring diagram correctly, The "Batt" wire comes from the positive side of the amp meter and the "Gauge" wire goes to the positive side of the Fuel Gauge.

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I think you'd want on the BAT side for power all the time and the radio on the switch side so it is only p;owered when the ignition is on.

The radio installation manual says to connect the radio power to the ammeter. Then It would have power all the time. I didnt like that so i connected mine so it comes on with the ignition. That added load may have contributed to the switch problem I had.

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13 hours ago, BuickBob49 said:

My 39 Roadmaster has a LeBaron Bonney kit, also. (Someone else installed it.)  The kick panels have concealed fasteners.  (See attached photo.)  The passenger side also has a map pocket.  My ignition switch is just like jvelde's.

 

Thanks for your restoration documentation!

 

 

 

Think we could get a pic of your map pocket side?

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Don,  if I understand you correctly, I should follow the wiring diagram and wire the radio to the ammeter to avoid overloading the ignition switch?

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My 38 Special also has the concealed fasteners. The edge of the cardboard kick panels fit into a groove in a metal strip that is fastened to the body similar to BuickBob49's 1939.


Steve D

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Gary,

I was concerned about overloading the ignition switch since I decided I'd switch the radio, plus I added a electric fuel pump for priming and directional signals - also swithced. I didnt like the small contact area of the ignition switch, so I added a 6 volt relay capable of carrying 30 amps DC. Now all the ignition switch load is the relay coil. I mounted the relay using the steering column bolt right above the switch under the dash. I used the original wiring to go to the relay and a short jumper to the relay coil. Nothing shows unless you really go looking for it.

Here is the schematic - i hope it helps.

Ignition Relay.pdf

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Saturday October 21, 2017:  Rear Roll-Up Window....Questions before installing....

 

First, guys, thanks for all the photos and electrical advice.  I really like the idea of Don's relay to be sure all your auxiliary equipment is off when the ignition switch is off.  Great idea.

The interior photos are a big help. I wish my '37 had that mounting strip....  the finish is really nice looking.  But I'll be using screws to affix the panel.

 

SO NOW....  advice please regarding the rear roll-up window.  I don't know if this is a "MODEL 48" issue only, but if someone can give me a little guidance here I'd be grateful!

 

 

Rear "Roll - Up" Windows:

 

 

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First, my original, broken windows were carefully measured and marked before removing the lower metal bar to be sure it went on the new glass in the same exact position.

 

 

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The metal was wire wheeled and sanded smooth and a self-etch prime applied.

 

 

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A coat of "trim black" finished the metal channel and now I want to install it in the car before installing the rear upholstery panels.

 

 

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So, I'm starting with these felt-lined channels that need to be bent to fit the window and the window opening in the body.

 

 

TWO DIFFERENT SHAPES I'M WORKING WITH HERE:

 

1. The actual shape of the window

2. The shape of the window opening in the body.

 

 

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This upper rear corner angle is the spot where the WINDOW shape and the WINDOW OPENING SHAPE of the BODY differ!

 

 

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I know it's hard to see depth in photographs, but that "crease" is where that upper window angle rests when the window is fully up.

That "crease" is clearly set in the Fisher Body about 1/2" deeper than the outer window reveals to accommodate the window shape.

But if I form the channel precisely into this "crease", the chrome edge will disappear from view.

 

 

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Using an old piece of felt lined channel to play around with before cutting my actual parts, I bent the channel around the window contour to see how close a fit it will be.

 

 

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So...The front pillar, the upper front corner radius and the upper section all follow the BODY WINDOW OPENING very closely and the chrome reveal is pretty consistent throughout the run.

Maybe a little shimming here and there will get it perfect, but overall not a bad fit.

 

 

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Now.... back here is the issue I'm having.

If I follow the WINDOW GLASS CONTOUR, the chrome edge gets buried in that notch inside and disappears from view.

If I follow the BODY CONTOUR, I don't think the window will close properly, or most likely will just push that part up under the body opening anyway.

 

 

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So... What is proper?

Does anyone have a photo of a Model 48 rear window so I can compare the chrome reveal.

 

I'd prefer the reveal to be the same around the entire window opening, but I think the actual shape of the glass will prevent that.

 

Any thoughts, greatly appreciated!

 

Thanks

Gary

 

 

 

Edited by Gary W (see edit history)

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It's always amazing to me how these odd and frustrating problems crop up during a restoration.  I've had my share and expect to have more in the future.  I can't help you with this one, but I'm sure the experts will chime in in no time.

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Gary,

 

I don't have a photo of that model but I think that the chrome edge should closely follow the body contour. On every other model that I have seen, the chrome edge closely follows the body contours. I also think that it is close enough to fitting the opening that the window glass will be close enough that, while not perfectly fitting the full depth of the channel, it will close with an air tight and water tight seal in the felt.  I wonder if the glass was not cut quite right? In any case, If you can figure out a way to measure the window opening closely, your glass shop should be able to wet grind down the glass to more closely mirror the window opening shape.

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Building upon what MCHinson alluded to, is it possible that the glass pane is the culprit? Was the cracked glass you replaced, and which you followed closely to duplicate, not the original pane that came with the car? Maybe the original was broken somewhere in the car's prior history and was replaced with one that was not cut correctly. That might also help explain some of the rust you found in the bottom section of the body, because the bogus replacement glass did not seal tight.

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Just to clarify:  I was told that the windows I removed from the car were the original 80-year old Buick windows.  (Maybe / Maybe not)

The replacements are 100% exact duplicates.  

 

My question is how to shape the chrome-edged window channel when it comes around the back curve of the window opening.

 

The problem is this:

The OUTSIDE shape of the window opening (The window opening, (reveal) in the body) is a beautiful, sweeping curve when viewed from the outside.

The shape of the GLASS is different.  It has an angle on the rear, upper corner.  

The INSIDE the body is formed to accept that rear, upper corner angle of the window glass, having that upper rear angle built into the body.

 

So:  If I form the channel to the inside, the channel will fit the window perfectly, but the channel will be lost from view when looked at from outside the car. It will be "tucked" up into the channel and hidden under the reveal.

        If I form the channel to the outside, I think the window will push it deep into the channel.

 

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The glass as removed from the car.  You can see the angle I'm talking about on both panes.

It's that rear, upper angle where the glass goes from curve on top to straight down vertical drop down the back surface.

 

 

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This is the "LOF" markings etched in the glass.  Maybe it's not the ORIGINAL glass, but it' is made exactly to Buick specifications.

 

 

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Here's the replacement glass.  It has the exact angle and the same vertical drop which goes straight down into the door channel.

 

 

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From the Fisher Body Service manual:  Clearly you can see the "crease", "notch"... that accommodates the glass on the INSIDE

 

 

 

 

 

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Here's the INSIDE of the window opening.  Notice the angle is built right into the Fisher Body to accept the angle of the rear window.

But also notice that the "crease" or the "angle" is set 1/2" deeper than the outer sweep of the window opening.

So if I attach the channel flush to the inner channel, the chrome edges will be behind the reveal at this spot.

 

 

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This is how the car was assembled when I got it.  The channel has the angle in it to follow the inner body contour.

 

 

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But you can also see where the channel is hidden behind the outer reveal when you do this.

 

 

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1.  The outer reveal

2. The glass channel assembled to the interior "notch"

3. The gap where the channel is hidden under the outer reveal.

 

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From the manual, the outer reveal is a much nicer, sweeping curve down.

 

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Again... This is how I got the car.  The channel is gone from sight where it sits in that channel.

 

 

 

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So when the window is up, I think it'll push the chrome channel into the body "crease" right at that point.

 

I've been thinking about it today, and I'm going to try to follow the outer sweep of the window reveal.

I may have to use a shim in the inside "crease" to support the channel.

If the window moves it, I might just cut a small slit in the channel to allow the window to pass through without moving the chrome channel deeper into the window.

 

Appreciate all the input here!

 

Gary

 

 

 

Edited by Gary W (see edit history)

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Gary, what about cutting a portion of the backside of the flex channeling out in the deep spot, and gluing some thick felt to the jamb of the deep curve. This is probably what you`re thinking anyways..

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Gary, I`ve always used a piece of 3"-4" PVC pipe to bend the radius shapes, works better than freehand bending. Just a thought..

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