hidden_hunter Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 Hi guys, My 1922 Cadillac Coupe has nearly made it from the US to Australia (St Louis to Melbourne!) and I'm starting to think about what's going to be required to get it back in service again. I'm planning on replacing the oil, flushing the gas and doing a general check over Does anyone have any suggestions on what type of oil I should be using (we never get freezing conditions) - The manual is really not very helpful it tells you "Cadillac Engine Oil is recommended and may be used both summer and winter. If you prefer to use some other oil and will write our Technical Department, a complete up-to-date list of tested and approved oils will be mailed to you" and the specs from the shop manual don't really line up with anything I can find locally. We run Penrite in the buick currently and have been happy with it. The other thing that I need to do is add turn signals, does any one have any suggestions on how to do this discretely? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 Nice car, V-63 correct? Any info on the engine? Have you dropped the pan? You should. Did you take a compression reading. Depending on the age and condition of the last motor overhaul, you can then make a informed decision of what you should run. Non detergent, multi viscosity, synthetic, etc. Also, you should change out the coolent and have a rust inhibitor etc. Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hidden_hunter Posted January 13, 2017 Author Share Posted January 13, 2017 10 minutes ago, edinmass said: Nice car, V-63 correct? Any info on the engine? Have you dropped the pan? You should. Did you take a compression reading. Depending on the age and condition of the last motor overhaul, you can then make a informed decision of what you should run. Non detergent, multi viscosity, synthetic, etc. Also, you should change out the coolent and have a rust inhibitor etc. Ed Type-61, the only 5 passenger coupe on the caddy register It's still in transit to Melbourne (it's in Sydney at the moment) , the engine was overhauled a couple of years ago (got receipts with the car) but to what standard I'm not sure yet so will do that. What signs should I be looking for to make that judgement call of which oil to use? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 How clean the motor is, if the entire motor was done to modern standards I would run a 20/50 or straight 30. I use Valvoline R "racing" oil. Expensive but offers good protection for pre war motors. Do a compression check, and drop the pan to inspect for sludge and over all condition, then you can make some decisions. On any new car purchase a total fluid change should be done, as well as a comprehensive lubrication of chassis, new battery, tune up, etc. It's easier to do it all at once, and then you can enjoy years of driving. Shortcuts leave you on the side of the road. Check tire and tube age and condition also. Finding spares like light bulbs, points, cap,etc should also start asap, it's getting harder to find the stuff every day. Post some photos when it arrives! Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidMc Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 I really like your '22 Cadillac. In response to your question about turn indicators I have used "Logo Lights" on my cars of the same era. They are made for A Fords but they suit any early car because the amber lights are small but extremely bright. The controller has a magnetic base so it can be fitted under the dash out of sight if it offends (it is a modern electronic unit) . I have looked at many options for turn indicators and these were the best compromise mainly because unlike some that you see on vintage cars, they are highly visible. On cars with twin bar bumpers they fit neatly between the bumpers. http://www.logolites.com/led/turn/signals/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 There is an identical car in Syracuse New York, all original, medium blue with black fenders. When I last saw it, the hood was off and the engine was being worked on. Decent overall car that's been in the same garage for more than fifty years, I am quite sure the current owner won't finish it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 (edited) Bye the way, if you didn't inspect the car in person, it's a very large car, larger than one would expect. It's very vertical when you stand next to it. Massive and impressive. The one I inspected had a very nice interior, lots of attention to detail. I have driven a Touring car of the same vintage, as you know they are most happy between 30-40 mph, not a highway car, but a very interesting automobile to drive and tour on slow back country roads. Edited January 13, 2017 by edinmass (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hidden_hunter Posted January 13, 2017 Author Share Posted January 13, 2017 37 minutes ago, edinmass said: There is an identical car in Syracuse New York, all original, medium blue with black fenders. When I last saw it, the hood was off and the engine was being worked on. Decent overall car that's been in the same garage for more than fifty years, I am quite sure the current owner won't finish it. There seems to be more Victoria's around which have a little hat box in them, I'm actually not quite sure back in the day why you would buy the 5 passenger coupe over the Victoria as it cost more money! Most of the roads around my house are in the 35-45 mph range so performance shouldn't be too much of an issue, the coastal road near my place is pretty much 40mph the entire length Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hidden_hunter Posted January 15, 2017 Author Share Posted January 15, 2017 Ok, so I've done a bit more research based on the numbers in the shop manual and using this conversion chart I found on the forums here so Penrite SHELSLEY MEDIUM 25W-70 (Mineral) http://www.penriteoil.com.au/products.php?id_categ=14&id_subcateg=69&id_products=73 looks like it would fit the bill? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 25W-70 is very thick oil. I think you would be better with a lighter oil. Engine oil back then was probably equivalent to about SAE 30 or 40. I used to use 20W-50 but after some research I am now using 10W-40 for my 1930 Dodge Brothers. On cold start, the oil pressure was very high with 20W-50, but the oil was not necessarily getting around the oil ways very well. Now, the oil pressure on startup is more sensible and the hot running pressure is still reasonable. The first number, before the W, is the apparent cold-oil viscosity number. 25 is pretty high. Most engine wear occurs when it is cold, i.e. after first starting and to minimise that wear an oil that is easy to pump etc. when cold is required. If splash fed, a thinner oil will go into the bearings more readily than a thick one. If your engine is a bit tired, you might try a 20W-50 but I would suggest something like the 10W-40, or even 5W-40 if there is such a thing. You want earliest possible full lubrication on startup. If you really want to minimise wear, use a synthetic oil. Many protect against wear, for example on flat tappets, better than pretty much all full zinc mineral oils. I am currently using Penrite HPR10, a full zinc diesel oil (CI rated) in the dodge. I see HPR 10 has now become 10W-50, mine is 10W-40. You could use that or even HPR 5 = 5W-40. I will be changing to synthetic when I finish the current pail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 One problem with the modern thinner oils is leakage, and if the cars pistons are original or fifties and sixties design oil consumption and possibly smoking. Also, modern oil doesn't have a lot of protection the internals need, as many of the additives have been removed to protect catalytic converts. I use valvoline racing oil. It's marked off road use only. I would run 20/50 or straight thirty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hidden_hunter Posted January 16, 2017 Author Share Posted January 16, 2017 Thanks for all the suggestions guys Does anyone have any suggestions for discretely mounting turn signals? or something that could be adapted without looking too terrible? (model a signals perhaps?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 They're not worth the effort, and they screw up the looks of the car. There is a new wireless magnetic kit on the market that uses nicad batteries that are very functional and look terrible. But they come on and off in less than a minute. You're probably never drive your car to enough to make a difference. And most roads that a 1922 will be on, high speeds won't be a factor. You're more would we do have issues with it being a slow-moving car, than having signal issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lump Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 1 hour ago, edinmass said: They're not worth the effort, and they screw up the looks of the car. There is a new wireless magnetic kit on the market that uses nicad batteries that are very functional and look terrible. But they come on and off in less than a minute. You're probably never drive your car to enough to make a difference. And most roads that a 1922 will be on, high speeds won't be a factor. You're more would we do have issues with it being a slow-moving car, than having signal issues. Ed, the trouble is, they have WAY different laws in Australia, which are VERY strict about driving vintage cars. This kind of thing is why I got so involved with SEMA years ago, to combat that crap when it rears its ugly head here in the USA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 (edited) 8 hours ago, edinmass said: Also, modern oil doesn't have a lot of protection the internals need, as many of the additives have been removed to protect catalytic converts. I use valvoline racing oil. It's marked off road use only. I would run 20/50 or straight thirty. I am very surprised to read this. I would have thought modern engines need more protection than old ones with tighter clearances and higher RPM (although piston speeds might be similar). Please elaborate. What additives have been taken out? As far as I remember from reading about oil, the only thing "taken out" is sulphur? Ref. indicators, in NZ we can drive our cars where ever and whenever we want. It is damned hard work keeping safe in my 1930 Dodge Brothers. I have huge blind spots so lane changing is a chore. I get honked at and rude signals. Hand signals just mean the window is open and you are waving at someone. I am going through the same process, trying to figure out what to do. I have a couple of old British column mount lever switches and a few 6V flashers. Just which lights to use is the problem. Edited January 16, 2017 by Spinneyhill (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozstatman Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 (edited) On 13/01/2017 at 1:15 PM, DavidMc said: ...... In response to your question about turn indicators I have used "Logo Lights" on my cars of the same era. They are made for A Fords but they suit any early car because the amber lights are small but extremely bright. The controller has a magnetic base so it can be fitted under the dash out of sight if it offends (it is a modern electronic unit) . I have looked at many options for turn indicators and these were the best compromise mainly because unlike some that you see on vintage cars, they are highly visible. On cars with twin bar bumpers they fit neatly between the bumpers. http://www.logolites.com/led/turn/signals/ G'day hidden_hunter, Pic below is of one of DavidMc's Packards on which are mounted the Model A turn signal lights. PS - Was the photo of your Cadillac taken out the back of Western Sydney at a bond store there? Edited January 16, 2017 by Ozstatman (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hidden_hunter Posted January 16, 2017 Author Share Posted January 16, 2017 2 hours ago, edinmass said: They're not worth the effort, and they screw up the looks of the car. There is a new wireless magnetic kit on the market that uses nicad batteries that are very functional and look terrible. But they come on and off in less than a minute. You're probably never drive your car to enough to make a difference. And most roads that a 1922 will be on, high speeds won't be a factor. You're more would we do have issues with it being a slow-moving car, than having signal issues. Hey Ed, it's more that my car is LHD and Australian cars are RHD so people wouldn't be looking for me on the left side if I use hand signals My state is pretty good with rules for vintage cars (especially compared to some of the other states) so technically I don't need them but seems like an important safety feature because of the whole LHD thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 3 hours ago, Spinneyhill said: What additives have been taken out? As far as I remember from reading about oil, the only thing "taken out" is sulphur? The major problem with catalytic converters is that some compounds and elements coat the catalyst, inhibiting its function. The worst is lead (now gone from fuel). Others in fuel include sulphur, manganese and perhaps silicone, esp. from coolant. From the oil, phosphorous and zinc are minor catalyst contaminants, hence their removal. Synthetic oils have no zinc (ZDDP) and some are better for minimising flat tappet wear than high-zinc oils, such as CI-4 rated diesel oils. edinmass is using racing oil, which I believe also has a high zinc level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C Carl Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 h_h , I have brought up "Dertengent Oil" again for your benefit. Please read it , and then study the 33 page "Widman" paper. You will then be a bit of a lay oil expert. Ed is older than you. Spinney is older than Ed. I am older than Spinney. George is older than I. This should not be interpreted to mean that age alone is a determinant of specific knowledge of anything. For example , I am the least knowledgeable of the aforementioned old guys. Just have my niche. So it is the cumulative knowledge which you may well be the heir to if you continue on. As you reach our respective ages , you will be ever more so expert on many things , including true old cars. Don't assume too much along the way , rather , constantly pick the brains of the older dogs. There is absolutely no end of knowledge for you to evaluate and incorporate here. Patience and generosity are in great abundance here , and we realize that you younger folk are the future of the hobby , and will be owning and driving our cars some day ! Spinney : Amsoil makes a line of very highly synthetic multi grade oil with significant levels of zinc and phosphorus. This is what I have switched to , regardless of the fact that these early Cadillac V8 engines have roller finger followers for the valvegear. No flat tappets to consider here , but you and I , disciples of Widman , know the benefits of synthetic oil and grease in both normal and extreme conditions. Whew , my Southern brothers , it is 2:40 AM on a Winter morning here. I have a rogue ticker to tame in consultation with a cardiologist or two in a few hours. So I'll sign off now. - Carl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Saxton Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 With these fork & blade conrod Cadillacs, if any of the bolts is stretched, you replace the whole set with new top quality replacements. Nobody had torsion wrenches in the 50's or 60's. If you break a bolt or conrod, you might "cough a rod". The crankcase alloy was weldable; but there is a lot of work to make any new conrods or big-end bearings. The 61 and earlier Cadillac V8s had a single plane crankshaft with smaller crankpin diameter. They sound and feel quite different on the road to the later V63, which had a split-plane, counter-balanced crank. They do not have the harmonic vibration periods; thanks to Charles Kettering and GM mathematician Hutchinson. With the increased popularity of closed bodies, the resonance of the vibration periods became more oppressive, and with increased car weight, you could not accelerate through the vibration periods as quickly, I had a nice V63 of the same body style in the 1960s. I traded that and a 1927 314B to a friend in Sydney for a 1918 L-head Mercer. And his friend who got the V63 thought that a verbal agreement was only valid until he got home; which lost me the engine of another car. The v61 will not stop as quickly in modern traffic, being without front brakes. V63 had drum headlights. V 63 also had larger bearing size for the Timken roller bearings for the front wheels. When the 1926Lincoln arrived at customs here from Perry, I took down 61 front wheels and tyres so they could steam clean it more easily; and I had to use a bush- mechanic's improvisation so the wheels would do to move it around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hidden_hunter Posted January 25, 2017 Author Share Posted January 25, 2017 Well friends, we've just picked it up and we're on our way back from Sydney to Melbourne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 Car looks great. Very nice trailer. Be sure to inspect the tires on the car, to my eyes they look very old. That's quite a haul to get it home! Be sure to give Ross Morgan a call, he knows pre war Caddy's better than anyone else I know down under. More photos please! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willie Wurke Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 On 1/12/2017 at 11:02 PM, hidden_hunter said: There seems to be more Victoria's around which have a little hat box in them, I'm actually not quite sure back in the day why you would buy the 5 passenger coupe over the Victoria as it cost more money! Most of the roads around my house are in the 35-45 mph range so performance shouldn't be too much of an issue, the coastal road near my place is pretty much 40mph the entire length Many years ago I had a dear friend who was a recognized authority on coachbuilt car bodies and their proper nomenclature. He said the 5 passenger coupe body that had the hat box behind the drivers seat( where they carried their top hats ) was the true and original Victoria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hidden_hunter Posted January 25, 2017 Author Share Posted January 25, 2017 2 hours ago, edinmass said: Car looks great. Very nice trailer. Be sure to inspect the tires on the car, to my eyes they look very old. That's quite a haul to get it home! Be sure to give Ross Morgan a call, he knows pre war Caddy's better than anyone else I know down under. More photos please! Yeah the tyres look quite hard and cracked, so they'll be going on the list (which seemed like the most logical thing to start with) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hidden_hunter Posted January 25, 2017 Author Share Posted January 25, 2017 53 minutes ago, Willie Wurke said: Many years ago I had a dear friend who was a recognized authority on coachbuilt car bodies and their proper nomenclature. He said the 5 passenger coupe body that had the hat box behind the drivers seat( where they carried their top hats ) was the true and original Victoria. I have the original build sheet that confirms its the less common 5 passenger coupe, I still don't quite get why in1922 you would pay more money for less features Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willie Wurke Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 10 hours ago, hidden_hunter said: I have the original build sheet that confirms its the less common 5 passenger coupe, I still don't quite get why in1922 you would pay more money for less features Judging by the weight of the rear seat cushion in my 1931 LaSalle 5 pass cpe they must have priced them by their weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hidden_hunter Posted January 26, 2017 Author Share Posted January 26, 2017 18 hours ago, Willie Wurke said: Judging by the weight of the rear seat cushion in my 1931 LaSalle 5 pass cpe they must have priced them by their weight. Ha, quite possibly - the tow car didn't actually do too badly towing it home, about 20mpg (and it with trailer would have been just over 6000 pounds) There a few quick jobs that need doing before getting it road legal, but the most pressing one is where does the return spring for the accelerator go? At the moment it's just looped up around an oil pipe on the starter and it doesn't return properly. Does anyone have any photo's/ideas where it is supposed to go? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kda406 Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 Since DavidMc's note Logo Lites put up a new website, and changed the links. Turn signal information moved to here: http://www.logolites.com/products/turn-signals/ ALSO since the posts in January, Logo Lites released two new brackets that give folks like hidden_hunter more options on Non-Model A Fords, and vehicles without split bumpers or no bumper at all. The old and new brackets are shown on this page: http://www.logolites.com/products/signal-lights/ Fantastic Cadillac, by the way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now