Judging Grand National Meet

[Frantz]

My family and I are considering making the trip to the grand national meet this year. I'd love to go as a judge. I have 12 credits, from 5 different meets, currently and would have a few more racked up by June. At 33 years of age, I've greatly enjoyed judging, though I know my weakness is a limited exposure to whats "right". At 33 I'm a shoe in for the chassis judge role, which I've now gained some decent confidence for, and can reasonably expect to hold that position for the next 30 years or so (some joking, but plenty of seriousness there!) Obviously the guidelines are set up to not require being an expert, but a baseline of knowledge is helpful and like anyone else, there are classes I'm more comfortable with than others. Anyway, I've not yet attended a grand national meet so I don't really know the atmosphere. Is there a shortage or excess of judges? I don't mind "knowing my place" and letting folks who know a bit more maintain a wiser standard, but I'm willing and wanting to learn the ropes. Would it be appropriate to register for judging such an event? I realize there is more than just "meeting the guidelines" of 10 credits, but I don't want to not do something just because I imagine there are better equipped folks beating at the doors to help out too. Honest thoughts on the matter?

[MCHinson]

You meet the requirements to judge at the AGNM. Judging is exactly the same as any other meet. There is no reason you should not judge.  The quality of cars may be a bit higher than an "average" meet but that just means there are fewer deductions to take, which actually could be argued makes the judging easier than a regular meet. 

[Phillip Cole]

Every AGNM I've judged proved to be an opportunity to learn more about the class one is judging and to improve one's judging skills. Not that other meets won't do that, but the AGNMs are a prime time to learn. Do it! ?

Edited January 9, 2017 by Phillip Cole
spelling (see edit history)

[Eric Wahlberg]

You have met the qualification of 10 points, as Matt mentioned and you will be welcomed at the next AGNM.  This past year I attended the AGNM in Williamsport as both a judge and an entrant.  I will state that it was the most enjoyable AACA national meet I have attended as an entrant.  Judging was a fun experience as I got to judge in classes I had not previously judged and like you I did chassis.  Some of the car owners thought it was interesting that I brought a pad to kneel on while evaluating the chassis.  The judging standards are exactly the same as any other national meet, no tougher nor more lenient. If you have the opportunity to attend additional meets prior to the AGNM, be certain to take advantage of every CJE you can.  Those are great learning experiences and you can gain much from the experienced instructors who are always available to answer questions regarding their specialty.  I have also found the team captains are a good source of information that may not be found in the Official Judging Guidelines.  I've only been an AACA judge since 2013, but I have found it to be an extremely rewarding experience and wish I had started judging many years earlier.

[Guest Mark McAlpine]

I echo the others' comments:  register to judge.  Judging at a Grand National Meet is great experience and fun.  As the others said, the judging guidelines are the same.  And, as Matt said, judging is arguably easier at a Grand National because all the vehicles have already earned their Senior Awards, so they should be in great condition.  Additionally, because the vehicles must have their Senior Awards, you won't find any new members who have entered an AACA national meet for the first time (because it happens to be occurring near them) and whose vehicles may have some major discrepancies (e.g., radial tires, aftermarket performance parts, etc.) because they aren't familiar with AACA's Judging Guidelines.

 

Register to judge.  You'll enjoy it.  (And your Team Captain will be there to answer any questions you may have.)

[llskis]

On 1/5/2017 at 1:08 PM, MCHinson said:

You meet the requirements to judge at the AGNM. Judging is exactly the same as any other meet. There is no reason you should not judge.  The quality of cars may be a bit higher than an "average" meet but that just means there are fewer deductions to take, which actually could be argued makes the judging easier than a regular meet. 

I humbly disagree. Judging a AGNM is harder because a judge has to know the cars better and separate the "bling"(improperly restored perfect cars) from the original cars. As good as best intentions are; it is very easy to get "overwhelmed" by the bling.-Larry

[MCHinson]

1 hour ago, llskis said:

I humbly disagree. Judging a AGNM is harder because a judge has to know the cars better and separate the "bling"(improperly restored perfect cars) from the original cars. As good as best intentions are; it is very easy to get "overwhelmed" by the bling.-Larry

 

Larry,

There is no such thing as an "improperly restored perfect car". It can be one but not the other. I would recommend you become a judge and learn how the judging system works. I don't know what happened to make you so quick to always question the competence of the judges but you really should get involved in the judging system. Judging involves human beings. Human beings are not perfect so just like every other human endeavor, mistakes will occur occasionally. That is no reason to always have a negative attitude about the judging system. 

[llskis]

MC>Thanks for the input. Instead of saying "improperly restored perfect car" ; I should have said "Improperly restored to the original condition of the car". As we know when you get into the AACAGN all cars look perfect but they all are not restored to the original condition of the car. IMHO

P.S. I am a judge in other org. but sorry to say none of what I learned in those org. applies to the judging in AACA.

[Phillip Cole]

My hat is off to both Larry and Matthew! ?

If we are discussing AACA judging, let's stick to AACA Guidelines. 

Frantz, at any meet following AACA Guidelines you may see bling (ostentatious) or understatement which did come from the factory. Cars from the Brass or Muscle eras have plenty of both. Ask the team captain to ask the owner for documentation.

Edited January 9, 2017 by Phillip Cole (see edit history)

[Frantz]

I've found that things that aren't right sorta pop out though. Bling certainly pops out. When something pops I ask. There have been times I thought something was wrong and asked the captain, and sometimes I was right, and sometimes it's a case of over-restoration. Not wrong, but done so much nicer than the factory did that it doesn't look "right". I'm sure I've missed things too though. Again with only 5 shows under my belt, I know I'm new and inexperienced. My last one was the first time someone has less points than me I believe. I feel I'm on the more rigid side of strictness sometimes based on subtle feedback, but I've also judged cars with previous awards where you can tell things were glossed over. This is especially on survivor cars where sometimes people respect what the car is so much they forget to properly judge it. But that's what we have HPOF for, and frankly, I think that's the most important class we have as a club. However, if you're putting your car into the regular point competition then I know we have to overlook the "wow for 40 years old that's perfect" and say "that's the right part and in very good condition, but I would never accept it from the factory that way."

[Phillip Cole]

2 hours ago, Frantz said:

I've found that things that aren't right sorta pop out though. Bling certainly pops out. When something pops I ask. There have been times I thought something was wrong and asked the captain, and sometimes I was right, and sometimes it's a case of over-restoration. Not wrong, but done so much nicer than the factory did that it doesn't look "right". I'm sure I've missed things too though. Again with only 5 shows under my belt, I know I'm new and inexperienced. My last one was the first time someone has less points than me I believe. I feel I'm on the more rigid side of strictness sometimes based on subtle feedback, but I've also judged cars with previous awards where you can tell things were glossed over. This is especially on survivor cars where sometimes people respect what the car is so much they forget to properly judge it. But that's what we have HPOF for, and frankly, I think that's the most important class we have as a club. However, if you're putting your car into the regular point competition then I know we have to overlook the "wow for 40 years old that's perfect" and say "that's the right part and in very good condition, but I would never accept it from the factory that way."

Exactly!  I still say, "Do it!"

 

[AnniesSS]

I say go for it!  Have fun