58L-Y8 Posted August 17 Posted August 17 Here is an improved version of the '32 cabriolet photo: A roadster with functional external landau irons suggests an aftermarket recreation. Have yet to think of a single example in that 1928-'32 period, but someone might recall one. That drop offset in the cowl-side molding shows up on the 1930 Pierce-Arrow Group B roadster and sport phaeton. 2
jeff_a Posted August 17 Posted August 17 (edited) On 2/23/2018 at 5:01 PM, alsancle said: Another picture of a Weymann Peerless. This may be the same Weymann, different background, company promotion, from the rather detailed autogallery.org.ru site: Edited August 25 by jeff_a (see edit history) 4
Su8overdrive Posted August 17 Posted August 17 (edited) Always thought the later Peerlesses were second tier to Pierce and Packard; good cars, but coasting on their earlier reputation, as Packard would later on, Pierce saved from such ignominy by being unable to afford to launch their 25,000 planned $1,200 base price Hayes-bodied 1938 juniors. 1929-on Peerlesses used Continental L-head straight eights, 322-ci in '29's 8-125 and 1930-31's Master and Custom 8, 246.7-ci in the 1930-31 Standard 8. These Continental engines were used in many other assembled cars of the time; Du Pont, Locomobile, Elcar, Jordan, Graham-Paige among them, just as Lycoming inline L-heads were used in others, including Kissel, before E.L. Cord bought the company and they were only used in A-C-D products and aircraft, the latter Continental continues propelling to this day. Has anyone published a serious comparison of Continental and Lycoming straight eights? Which had the edge? Any SAE papers from the day, more than simply hearsay and opines? Count Alexis de Sakhnoffsky got around, not only styling the 1930 Peerlesses, but with Ray Dietrich, a consultant to Packard in the early '30s, aiding the Detroit firm's design chief, Werner Gubitz's sculpted, finished look that aided by Packard headed by ex-Hudson and cash register execs since the early teens who knew how to milk tooling of refined engineering gave Packard the cash reserves to launch their company-saving junior in 1935. But let's focus on which had the edge, Continental or Lycoming flathead straight eights. Edited August 17 by Su8overdrive (see edit history) 1
58L-Y8 Posted August 17 Posted August 17 Peerless was keeping good company offering a Weymann sport sedan on their 8-125: 2
58L-Y8 Posted August 18 Posted August 18 17 hours ago, Su8overdrive said: Has anyone published a serious comparison of Continental and Lycoming straight eights? Which had the edge? Any SAE papers from the day, more than simply hearsay and opines? But let's focus on which had the edge, Continental or Lycoming flathead straight eights. If you can wade through all this to find if the subject was covered, please report your findings. Technical Papers - Publications - Publications (sae.org)
jeff_a Posted August 19 Posted August 19 (edited) 58L-Y8, Thanks for comparing the Peerless-Weymann and the Duesenberg side-by-side. It was the fourth model introduced in 1930, something of a custom-bodied offshoot of the Master 8(same 125" w.b., anyway). Perhaps some of the 1,500 chassis' intended for Master 8s were shipped to Weymann's facility for assembly instead of the Hayes body plant in Michigan [or having Hayes bodies shipped to Cleveland]. No one knows how many were built. 2? 20? The entire records collection was donated to the Cleveland Public Library in 1946. A look for these Peerless archives there by Richard Lichtfeld, the President of the Peerless Motor Car Club, about 2008 turned up none of the 770 bound volumes detailing automotive history spanning 1896-1946. He said some of the material would have been stamped "Peerless Library". A story written in the Twenties said the library was visited by many automotive historians researching the earliest days of the car industry because of the motoring publications going back to the 1890s. Lost? Misplaced? Sold? Discarded? Donated to another facility? This collection would have data on these Weymann cars if it could be found, I think. So far....I have recorded 51 coachbuilders for Peerless [there's a thread about that over on the AACA Peerless Forum], and personally, would love to get more information from the Primary Source. The first straight-eight Peerless was the Eight-125, their most luxurious 1929 model. These were available in Coupe/Victoria Coupe/5-P Sedan/7-P Sedan/Limousine in 130" & 138" w.b. To confuse matters, 2 or 3 hundred 1929 Eight-125s were carried over into 1930 when build dates or sales were after 9/1/29, the model year change. About 1,100 built -- 6 to 8 known at present. Edited August 25 by jeff_a (see edit history) 1
58L-Y8 Posted August 19 Posted August 19 21 minutes ago, jeff_a said: 58L-Y8, Thanks for comparing the Peerless-Weymann and the Duesenberg side-by-side. It was the fourth model introduced in 1930, something of a custom-bodied offshoot of the Master 8(same 125" w.b.). The first straight Peerless model was the Eight-125, their most luxurious 1929 offering. To confuse matters, 2 or 3 hundred Eight-125s were carried over into 1930 when build dates or sales were after 9/1/29, the model year change. Jeff_a: The Weymann sport sedans on the Duesenberg J is named the "St. Cloud", couple variations of the styling details but generally with visorless, low windshields, rectangular side windows and the distinctly defined, low-set rear top bow break for the rear surface. Being Zapon-fabric covering on wood, survival rate is low, though Duesenberg J's do. Are there any of the Peerless Master 8 Weymann cars still extant? Weymann-American in Indianapolis did eventually aluminum panel some of their earlier sport sedan styles on Stutz DV-32. Weymann American, Charles Terres Weymann, Weymann bodied, Flexible body, Stutz, Duesenberg - CoachBuilt.com Steve
jeff_a Posted August 19 Posted August 19 (edited) No - I've been on the lookout, but no known survivors of the 1930 Peerless-Weymann model. I know of a couple of '32 Peerlesses that came up for sale here on the AACA Forums in Condition 5, a dealer found at the finest car museum in Missouri(Auto World Museum in Fulton); but they were a Deluxe Master Eight Sedan and a Custom Eight Sedan and were traditional factory (Hayes) bodies. They were full Classics, the car broker in Texas wanted $10K and $20K, no takers here, went overseas and disappeared from the face of the earth. I have a confidential source that may have a big Thirties Peerless under wraps....but an unknown model and just a lead, really. so no it is possible to recover these things.........saw a pic of a Bentley in Europe that had clearly been re-done with fabric. But when you have a 7-figure car, that may not be a Big Huge Deal. (2023 image from Royal Veteran Car Club of Belgium) Edited August 30 by jeff_a (see edit history) 1
pmhowe Posted August 22 Posted August 22 On 8/19/2024 at 7:13 PM, jeff_a said: saw a pic of a Bentley in Europe that had clearly been "re-Weymanned" with fabric. From what I have read, it was not uncommon in the ‘teens and ‘twenties for a wealthy UK car owner to change the body style on his Rolls, Bentley, or other upmarket car. The same sort of behavior was applied to the ‘thirties Rolls, Derby Bentleys, Alvis, Daimler and others - but for a different reason. In the first case, it was a car owner upgrading his motorcar for his own use. In the second case, it was to deal with the increased value of an open car versus the limited value and exhorbitant costs associated with careful saloon restoration. I have read that there are far more Derby Bentley drophead coupes than were originally manufactured. Part of this is driven by the penchant for British body builders to include a sunroof on their saloons. These invariably leaked, rotting the wood in the upper body, particularly in the A pillar region. Restoring a mod-‘thirties saloon with rotted wood is a serious challenge. 2
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