Model 20 Running

[MochetVelo]

Frustrated with difficulty starting, I finally bit the bullet and brought my 1911 Torpedo to our local oldies garage (Last Chance Garage, Unionville, PA). It made the 10-mile trip last week on a roll-off (cost $80). I included the Book of Instructions and Breeze manual for the mechanics to read. A few days later, I got a call that they had it running. The basic problem: the plugs firing in the wrong order. Now, while admittedly ignorant, I swear I referred to the Book numerous times to be sure I had the wires running correctly. However, I guess I got it wrong. They also played with the Breeze carb for a long time. It's apparently not only running, but driving with pretty decent power, I'm told. Anyway, I'll test it out myself in a couple days.

 

I do have a question concerning the carburetor: I know the Breeze is the correct one, but is it possible to install a Holley NH without chopping off the intake manifold? One Hupp guy told me this could be done with an adapter. It might be interesting to have the Holley as an option.

 

Phil

[MochetVelo]

I visited the garage today, and they started the car and I drove it for the first time. The mechanic made the sign of the cross when referring to the Breeze carburetor, but it was running. It even seemed to shift pretty well, though we only went around the block. Very nice to see the car move after all this time.

 

Phil

[1912Minerva]

That's great news Phil!

I think if you blank off the bottom of the original manifold and then make up an adapter for the Holley NH that will give you the option of either carb without altering the manifold?

I run a Holley but my car came with the manifold cut off.  I had to make an adapter to fit the Holley as the bolt holes are slightly different.

 

Cheers,

Andrew.

 

 

[MochetVelo]

Greetings, Andrew. My car came with a cut-off manifold and an odd British motorcycle carb cleverly installed using pulleys and cable. I now have a Breeze installed with the correct intake manifold. I started the car myself yesterday for the first time after its servicing. After numerous cranks, checking to see if I had spark, etc., it started right up after I filled the priming cups. There is a mysterious interplay between those two screw-settings on the Breeze. It's hard to know where they should be set for starting, then for idling, then for accelerating. The simpler Holley NH is a tempting option.

 

Phil 

[JFranklin]

That Breeze carb adjustment sound eerily like all the 2 stroke motor carbs I have to rebuild, and adjust, before every spring so they will start and run!

[Max BURKE]

G,day to Huppers. We always take out the summer/winter plug from below the manifold when adjusting the carb because then air can be drawn in direct without coming from the ex manifold stove,Make sure the butterfly is opening on the first movement as it can go right round in the body and it can happen that the first movement is closing it before it begins to open, Reset the spindle if need be.. The main jet will work at one to one and a half turns open for a start, trim it later. The air valve spring needs to be just strong enough to keep the valve closed at cranking speed but must start to open as soon as the engine speed is just above a fast idle test it running by opening with a thin screwdriver blade, If the valve can open when at cranking speed then the engine will not start If no compromise can be reached in the valve opening at speed then a new venturi will need be made with a smaller throat. Remember small changes here make big running changes. When we got the roadster the manifold had been cut and a Holly and a Kingston four ball had been tried. We were able to revert back to Breeze as the original manifold came with the car but not the Breeze which may be from some other instalation. We made four venturie of different throat sizes before being satisfied.Max BURKE Nulkaba 2325 Australia

[1910Hupp]

I'm currently running the  Breeze . Previously I had the   Holley NH on a butchered  manifold . The Holley had more top end speed (only an extra 5 mph)  but  being designed for the 2.8 litres of the Model T engine  is too big for the Hupp motor and  you can't get a nice idle.  The Breeze performs well .  To start  mine I open the  Mixture adjustment   by  3/4 Turn and  when it starts I lean it down until i get the  fastest idle speed . When I first started using the breeze I was running it to rich  it performs much better when leaner - I couldn't work out why the car was running cold and had reduced power. I leave the air valve well  alone .  I have tried  fiddling with  variable  ignition timing  and although I still have adjustment  available  I generally leave the ignition  alone -the exception being on a long "high speed"  run when I will advance it fully.  Karl

[MochetVelo]

 Your advice in this & previous posts helped, Karl. I got the car started today from cold with one crank (well, after I cranked it two times with the mag switch off to charge the cylinders). It smoothed out by screwing down the mixture knob. I'm still unsure about the air valve setting, but try to keep it sealed when cranking. Using the priming cups definitely helps. I can't drive it yet because I'm wading through the state bureaucracy to get a title & tags.

 

Should there be a small spring on the throttle lever at the carburetor in addition to the long coil spring next to the oiler?

 

Phil

Edited December 24, 2016 by MochetVelo (see edit history)

[1910Hupp]

When you start it open the throttle fully  . Open the mixture  one whole turn. Flood the  carburettor . Turn the  car over 4 times  with  the ignition off. Then flood the carb again. Turn the ignition on and should fire  on first or second pull. . Once running  turn the  mixture screw in until the idle is fastest . The air valve is trial and error  but  you don't want it opening at crank or idle speed otherwise you will never start as will be too lean.  I leave the  plug out  the bottom of the  manifold all the time . Preheating the intake air just means less air is ingested. In the day it was useful as  with the inferior low octanes warmed air gave  better  combustion but  we don't have that problem today. I don't have a spring on my carburettor .

Karl 

 

[MochetVelo]

Took the Hupp on a small tour today: to the local garage for an inspection required by the state (PA), then drove it to my friend's garage; maybe 2 miles. It starts like a dream: a couple pulls with the mag off to charge the cylinders, then it starts right up. I reduced the gear grinding by double-shifting to second. The car seems to have pretty good power, but no steep hills attempted yet. The foot brake does stop the car, but slowly. Also, I think the car must move to avoid to boiling coolant.

 

I do have a question concerning the clutch: should it totally disengage the engine from the transmission, like shifting to neutral? My clutch works well enough to shift gears, but seems to have a slight drag, not unlike a Model T Ford.

 

Phil

Edited May 18, 2017 by MochetVelo (see edit history)

[trimacar]

Great news that you're driving it!  Yes, the clutch should disengage, the likely culprit if it doesn't is the arrangement of large washers in front of the clutch, which give the bearing surface and correct spacing.  They've been discussed before, and if they're worn, or worse, not there at all, then you will get the drag you mention.

 

As to the brakes, I've been known to quite often use both foot and hand brakes, and a little prayer, when stopping...there's so little brake surface area, just a little oil on them and you're done.....and remember to always have the clutch in if hitting the brakes hard, that big flywheel on the front of the engine can snap a crankshaft if you're not careful...