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AACA Museum & AACA, What is Going On


midman
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Lets get on the lighter side and move on. Here is my suggestion for the new AACA facility just north of Hershey forgot the name of town. Might be a little small though. Reminds me of the Model A museum at the Gilmore. 

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Edited by Joe in Canada (see edit history)
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2 minutes ago, Joe in Canada said:

Lets get on the lighter side and move on. Here is my suggestion for the new AACA facility just north of Hershey forgot the name of town. Might be a little small though. Reminds me of the CL museum at the Gilmore. 

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Hi Joe, - Great touring with you this past summer! ... and it looks like my Hudson would be "at home" in that building.

 

When you say "just north of Hershey", would that be farther north in the area of Toronto, Ontario ?

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38 minutes ago, vermontboy said:

 

Sticking one's head in the sand is one thing. I would like to know if AJFord54's post of his published letter to Hemmings was voluntarily removed by him or censored by the moderators of this forum. Stonewalling is one thing, censorship is quite another. I daresay many of us had already seen it in Hemmings and since it was published little would be gained by its removal.

The Forum Moderators did not remove AJFord54's post. He has replied to note that he deleted his own posts in this discussion but I just want to repeat that the Moderators did not remove his posts to make sure you see it.

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12 minutes ago, AJFord54 said:

After seeing my post censored and removed  by Hemings I personally removed all of my posts from this forum as well.  It is obvious to me that this subject is closed to opinions  and frankly a total waste of time - guess calling the museum board members "rats" wasn't acceptable.  Will leave this here for awhile so you can understand that I personally removed these forum posts.  All the best to friends that care about the AACA.

 

Thank you for noting that the AACA FORUM moderators DID NOT REMOVE, and DID NOT CENSOR your posts.

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After reading the letter I received yesterday - and only 2 of the 10-11 PAGES of comments on the topic.... My opinion of the club or of the museum  hasn't changed one bit.  It doesn't affect my daily life in any way.  While I'm disappointed that a merger - one which I knew nothing about - couldn't be reached, I'm confident that everything that could be done or said,has been done and I'm glad that a decision to stop negotiations has been reached because really.... how much longer do you want this dead horse beat!?

 

Thanks Steve for taking the time to address some of the comments and questions posted here.  Thanks for all you and the Board does to keep this club going.  You have my support, if it means anything to any one :)

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5 minutes ago, Marty Roth said:

When you say "just north of Hershey", would that be farther north in the area of Toronto, Ontario ?

No it is just north of Hershey near Lebanon I believe. Took a wrong turn and came across it and had to take a picture. Why if you looked around you may even come across sum NOS Hudson parts hidden in a dark dusty corner.

   Merry Christmas Marty and to all

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Thanks, Steve, for more information you've posted, it does clear some things up, I'm sure the Board did what it could.  I look forward to reading the article in the AACA magazine....

 

Here's my prediction.

 

The Museum won't miss the $80K very much, that's a drop in the bucket against a much larger budget needed to keep the museum in operation.  What the Museum WILL miss, I think,  Is support from AACA membership in other ways, and the Museum Board will see is a certain apathy that many AACA members will have toward the museum, realizing that the equity being built there doesn't benefit the CLUB at all.  Fewer donations of cash and cars, less participation in events, fewer volunteers and docents....I think all that is going to really hurt the Museum fundraising and future growth.  As mentioned before, keeping an antique automobile museum going is a tough proposition, and usually a museum needs all the help, and all the friends, it can get.  That's why the most "successful" antique and Classic car museums are privately owned and funded by deep, deep pockets.

 

I believe that the Museum will see a shortfall in operating cash within the next 2 to 3 years, and at that point, there's only one course of action the Museum board can take, and that's to start selling vehicles out of the collection.  I don't know anything about the different cash flow streams that the museum has coming in, and I could be way off base, but I really do think they'll be hurting more without a strong partner like the AACA Club.

 

Life goes on, it will be interesting to watch what happens...

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I just can't believe this whole scenario concerning the AACA and the AACA Museum.   I guess I'm just naive to believe all along that the museum was, in fact, part of AACA.   I guess I'm just wrong.   What really upsets me is all the member and club money that's gone into building and supporting the museum.   It seems incredible that our beloved club and the museum can't make accomodations to one another to merge into one unit.   Someone along the way is going to hurt big time and I don't believe it'll be AACA.   Museums are hard to run profitably.   I hope that the museum can find its way without the support of AACA.   I've been reading this whole story for the past few days on the Forum.   I just got my letter from AACA today, December 17th.

Rog

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1 hour ago, John348 said:

Now how does the Museum get away with printing on the donation envelope (I received in the mail 72 hours ago) "Thank-you for your support of the Antique Automobile Club of America Museum"  ?

 

 

 

I know that there is a lot of things going on here and many emotions, seems like this might have gotten lost but the Museum is misrepresenting itself with the above statement. I think this is very important to bring forward (that is why i quoted myself)

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My experience with non profit museums generally follows the same pattern. At the beginning there is tremendous support from those who can benefit financially by donating cars or whatever and receiving a sometimes inflated appraisal on items they donate which they can use to offset taxes due the IRS. Don't underestimate these appraisals as a motivating factor among those in the highest tax brackets. After all those in a position to benefit from making donations for a tax write off have reaped their rewards interest tends to  wane. As always, follow the money.

Personally I am very satisfied with Steve's handling of this matter.

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6 hours ago, Steve Moskowitz said:

  Any donor or person who has ever asked the question whether we were one organization has ben told the truth to my knowledge.  Certainly be me and our staff when we got calls from donors.  For years, people at the museum told guests that they were not a part of AACA.  There was no need to publicize the trials and tribulations trying to get a deal done when no one knew the final outcome.  The club has always been hopeful that a compromise could be found and twice since Hershey agreed to meet again based on requests from a major contributor and two past presidents.  Those meetings never took place.  I am sure some museum board members were also hopeful of a settlement.  To heavily publicize our negotiations would have served no good purpose especially if we had come to an agreement.  We would have needlessly upset people at the time.  The fact that we failed is the final story.  Maybe in the future there will be an epilogue and a common sense approach will be taken. 

 

The fact that the AACA Club and the AACA Museum have officially split  bothers me a bit; however, the philosophy implied in the above paragraph bothers me a lot.  Reading the posts in this thread indicates that the vast majority of AACA Club members (including myself) were totally unaware that the Club and the Museum were legally two separate entities.  Was there any harm in not making this plain to the Club membership over the years?  I think the answer is yes.  When the schism between the Club and the Museum became of sufficient concern that negotiations were started some 4 years ago to bring the Museum into the Club (or to reach some other compromise), the Club membership should have definitely been informed of the situation and kept abreast of all significant developments.  It would not have been necessary to "heavily publicize" negotiations as I believe that occasional updates in the Club publications (print and on line) would have sufficed to keep members up to date on "the process".  I fail to see how this would have "... needlessly upset people at the time."  In my opinion, most of the upset caused by the announcement of the AACA Club - Museum "divorce" was due to folks feeling "blind-sided" by the after-the-fact announcement.

 

With that said, I believe the AACA Club Board of Directors did their best and worked for the best interests of the Club.  I just hope that the B of D will learn from this and keep the AACA General Membership apprised of any future developments affecting the status of the Club.

 

Steve M., I appreciate your posts on this thread, which (I believe) have done much to smooth some "ruffled feathers".

 

Cheers,

Grog 

 

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I've always been amused at "write offs", and tax deductions, you still have to be comfortable enough to give something away, and only get your tax bracket percentage back as a "write off", you don't get to take the entire value of donation off the bottom line of your taxes.

 

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=kramer+write+it+off&view=detail&mid=78F22EB811DEB3B9D6DD78F22EB811DEB3B9D6DD&FORM=VIRE  

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6 minutes ago, trimacar said:

I've always been amused at "write offs", and tax deductions, you still have to be comfortable enough to give something away, and only get your tax bracket percentage back as a "write off", you don't get to take the entire value of donation off the bottom line of your taxes.

 

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=kramer+write+it+off&view=detail&mid=78F22EB811DEB3B9D6DD78F22EB811DEB3B9D6DD&FORM=VIRE  

True, but if you have a car or other item that is difficult or impossible to sell, donating and taking the charitable deduction can be an attractive alternate plan. I have been involved it 2 transactions of this nature within the last 3 years, one of which benefitted the AACA library, one of which benefitted another museum. . I was involved wih the start up of a local industrial museum. It was amazing to see how.many pieces of obsolete machinery suddenly appeared and were donated. It all revolves around how the value of donated items is established. Appraisals can be very subjective.

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I realize that some people never paid attention but nobody ever hid the fact that the AACA Museum was a separate organization from the Club. It was publicized when it was created and every time there has ever been a combined fund raiser it has clearly been advertised as benefiting the different organizations. I am looking at the ticket from where I attended the October 5, 2016 Night at the Museum. Across the top of the ticket is the following text "AACA MUSEUM INC. PRESENTS NIGHT AT THE MUSEUM". The only thing that has changed is that AACA (the club) is no longer pursuing the long anticipated move to merge the Club with the Museum, and AACA is no longer going to donate financially to the operation of the Museum. I am convinced that since AACA, AACA Museum, and Hershey Region AACA are all in "Hershey" and have always worked towards common goals, many people simply failed to pay attention to the fact that they are and always have been three different organizations. 

 

On a related and hopefully somewhat lighter note...

 

How many people who talk about "Hershey" even know that it is not actually a town? The "Hershey" that we all know and love is simply an area within Derry Township, Pennsylvania. http://www.derrytownship.org/government/governments

 

When you pay attention to the details you learn things but in spite of it all, the people in the different organizations in the Hershey area are and will continue to be an important part of the old car hobby. I am sure I will still visit the Museum next time I am there. I have purchased tickets in the past that helped the Museum and AACA. I don't know that I personally will contribute financially to the Museum itself now that it is clear that the Museum Board is not interested in merging with AACA. We are all still the same family, but sometimes family quarrels happen.  

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How sad to see how this dispute seems to be gaining ground within the AACA and Museum boards.  With all of the modern pressure's we in the old car hobby face from restrictive laws to ethanol in our fuel, we need to be focusing on banding together to preserve our great hobby instead of the infighting that seems to be going on.  In the AACA we have the greatest automotive club on the face of the earth; one that is looked up to by most other car clubs and through the hard work and guidance of our Executive Director and National Board we continue to grow.  Let's stick together fellows and gals for the good of our beloved hobby. 

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3 hours ago, MCHinson said:

 

How many people who talk about "Hershey" even know that it is not actually a town? The "Hershey" that we all know and love is simply an area within Derry Township, Pennsylvania. http://www.derrytownship.org/government/governments

 

 

That's not quite accurate.  It's an unincorporated area within the township.  It exists on its own enough to have its own zip code and you address mail in those areas to "Hershey".  There are other unincorporated areas within that same township.  It is that way all over PA what with their township system having now created micro governments all over creation. 

Edited by W_Higgins (see edit history)
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After a 3 decade career in local government, I will simply stand by my assertion that "Hershey" is not an incorporated municipality. It is not what is normally defined in legal terms as the governmental entity referred to as a "town". That does not change what it is. While it is assigned a zip code by the USPS for mail purposes, Hershey does not exist as a town or municipal government. My reason for mentioning it is that it makes no difference to those of us who go to "Hershey" each year, but some times things are not what they seem. The Museum is not part of AACA and never has been. Just because lots of people thought that the museum was part of AACA does not make it so. The "town" is still the same. The Museum is still the same museum. The Club is still the same club. All that has changed at this time is that a long term effort to merge the Museum and the Club has been abandoned and the Club is no longer contributing financially to the Museum. Hershey is still Hershey and we will all still be there next October.:D 

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Good point above, Matt.

Now let's have any board members' hard feelings soften and dissolve.

The museum can be invited back to our Annual Meeting,

and be there at least as a restoration shop or a dash-plaque company

is there to promote its presence.  Even if we're not legally combined,

they're brethren in spirit in our hobby, and even neighbors.

Remember the peace and good will that Christmastime engenders! 

Edited by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)
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Another point I have to make. YOUR club is moving on now with a heavy load that is like starting over needing a new larger facility. Where as the museum only needs operating expense's and is no different than any other automotive museum now. So I hope everyone takes that under consideration when making donations in the future.

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6 hours ago, W_Higgins said:

Thank for the rehash.  It is clear that you have spent three decades working for the government.

 

 

That was harsh. He was simply pointing out that legally no such town as Hershey exists. I too am an elected official in a small PA town and recognize that the PA system of boroughs and townships can be confusing. There is certainly an area known as Hershey but it does not exist as an incorporated municipality. It has no governing body and cannot levy taxes. Post office zip codes have nothing to do with whether an area is incoprorated or not. There is no "Hershey" zip code. All this is at best just amusing trivia.

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Well, Paisley, Florida has its own zip code, library, community center, fire station(Lake County), mall (Dollar General Store), the Pirates' Pub, two gas stations and no traffic signals; however, it is not a governmental entity.  Paisley is an unincorporated area of Lake County, Florida and relies upon the Lake County Sheriff's Office for law enforcement.  I would guess that many areas of this Country are similar in nature ... not just Paisley, Florida and Hershey, Pennsylvania:D.

 

Cheers,

Grog

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Our town is primarily zip code 17000 (let's say) but we have residents.of the town who do not have the 17000 zip. We also have residents who live outside.the town yet have the 17000 zip. Town names are meaningless to the postal service. Only the zip matters. The township/borough system dates to a time when the money was in the town and the surrounding townships were less densely settled.and relatively less affluent. Today the situation has reversed in most areas.

 

 

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The analogy about different municipalities

tells just part of the story.  Those municipalities

don't resent each other.  It's clear that our AACA

and AACA Museum have differences--even animosities--

that they need to overcome.  Remember, folks,

this is Christmas, and what better time to at least coexist peacefully.  

 

Christmas--peace on earth.jpg

Edited by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)
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21 minutes ago, W_Higgins said:

1.  A lot of people are drawing conclusions with inaccurate or missing information.

 

2.  The whole thing is about MONEY

 

If the AACA offers up a candid, honest and complete account of the entire situation, warts and all, it will go a long way to the membership saying "OK, lets just move on."  If the account comes across as sugar coated and self serving it will only cause further festering. I'm truly hoping they do the right thing...........Bob

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Both organizations are struggling in a existential situation, and need to be free to pursue the best strategy for each. However, to the extent that the museum continues to add value to the club’s mission, there is no reason to cease support for the museum, as the regions and joint members have been doing, and should/will continue to do so. Club action to withdraw support now seems to be a financial management decision based on Club board assessment of the prudent path forward given the current state of affairs.


Club members may appeal to their board members to reconsider, and make this issue pertinent to future elections. However, experienced members clearly understand that the AACA board is a club within, whose membership is largely determined by their own selection of board candidates, and who will not disclose results of board elections. Policy and practice of the AACA are stuck in the past, and are positioning the club at continued risk with regard to future growth. The claim, often repeated, that the Club is governed by elected board members is misleading in that the members at large are not participants in the candidate selection. The result is that the claim that action "is always in the best interests of the members" must be tempered with the understanding that that interpretation is made by a small number of board members who never have polled the general membership.

That being said, in my experience, there can be no doubt that Steve Moskowitz  and members of the board have contributed enormously of their time , knowledge, and wealth to the benefit of the membership. However, like Mr. Beck, I would like to see more transparency on Board policy, and the policy platforms of all candidates prior to elections.

Finally, absolutely my last word, I do trust the decisions made on this issue, wish the museum well, support the Board to use my funds wisely to expand and improve facilities and plan to enjoy my association with you all moving on.

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6 hours ago, old car fan said:

We received a letter last week asking to donate again this year, not a chance till this is brought up to date.I do not like any sugar coated details,just the details,hopefully,all will turn out

 

Old Car Fan,

make sure you read the back of the donation envelope that was enclosed and tell me that is not a little misleading!

 

Edited by John348 (see edit history)
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Interesting situation here...

 

If the AACA is splitting with the museum, why in the world does the museum get to be "AACA Museum" by name if they are not affiliated?!?! Being unaffiliated, the very use of AACA in the name "AACA Museum" is flat-out misleading. And it's not as if the acronym "AACA" stands for anything other than Antique Automobile Club of America in this case. Honestly, it almost seems to me like the museum name should be modified to clearly differentiate between the museum and the club. I doubt that will happen, but if they are going to be independent and not under the AACA club umbrella, they should forge a new identify and, in turn, the club should move on. 

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For me the major issue is not so much the split but "what other surprises are in store ?" Now that the membership is focused on the museum, everything is going to be scrutinized. The biggest loss is that of trust and it will be very hard to regain.

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21 minutes ago, padgett said:

The biggest loss is that of trust and it will be very hard to regain.

 

Which is exactly why AACA management and board must be totally forthcoming with their promised report on the situation. The member's BS detector will be in a heightened state. Even a whiff of a cover up will be even more  damaging to the fabric of the club..................Bob

Edited by Bhigdog (see edit history)
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I just received AACA's "URGENT" missive in this afternoon's mail.  Unfortunately, the letter failed to elaborate on why the AACA membership had not been kept informed of the progress of this FOUR YEAR negotiation.  As I had attempted to make the point in my Post #132, I think that most of the upset on the part of the general AACA Membership is that we feel that we were effectively "blind-sided" by last week's announcement of the failure of the merger negotiations (that had been ongoing for 4 years).   As Padgett mentioned above: "What other surprises are in store?"

 

Cheers,

Grog

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4 hours ago, Scooter Guy said:

If the AACA is splitting with the museum, why in the world does the museum get to be "AACA Museum" by name if they are not affiliated?!?! Being unaffiliated, the very use of AACA in the name "AACA Museum" is flat-out misleading. And it's not as if the acronym "AACA" stands for anything other than Antique Automobile Club of America in this case. Honestly, it almost seems to me like the museum name should be modified to clearly differentiate between the museum and the club. I doubt that will happen, but if they are going to be independent and not under the AACA club umbrella, they should forge a new identify and, in turn, the club should move on. 

Gee guys, I don't spent much time on here anymore, but I see that not much has changed. Steve M covered everything we know at this point, but I will add a couple things once more. (Sorry, I may have to make multiple quoted posts.)

 

First Scooter, the word "splitting" indicates that we were at some point in time "combined", not true. That's what we, the AACA Board of Directors committee group, has been working on for some time now. All this fuss over being "together", "splitting", or the "sky is falling" mean NOTHING! The only thing that has changed is that the Antique Automobile Club of America is "discontinuing our relationship and financial support", just like the letter that my wife and I received today. We, the club needs a new facility to house a new Library and Headquarters. We need that support that we have provided the Museum to accomplish this. We were hoping to combine with the Museum and its property to accomplish this, but it did not work out. I want to say this again. The AACA Museum and the AACA Library and Club Headquarters are STILL just like they were before. I suggest that you support either or all, just like you have before. It that so hard to understand?

 

Now, the AACA name, the Museum was given the name AACA from the very beginning to promote what was begun as a Museum very closely associated with the Antique Automobile Club of American. It's an abbreviation, nothing more. I am sure it was meant to point to the AACA "Host" club, although, I guess, it could mean anything that they would like. If they want to modify it, that's up to them, not the rest of the world.

 

ok, moving on....................

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