AACA Museum & AACA, What is Going On

[cxgvd]

How about this.  Kick out the lawyers and accountants, bring in a talented mediator with some Guiness and a bit of Glenfiddich.  Resupply with sandwiches until an agreement is made.  The AACA club and AACA museum belong together.   Gary

[Dave Gray]

35 minutes ago, cxgvd said:

How about this.  Kick out the lawyers and accountants, bring in a talented mediator with some Guiness and a bit of Glenfiddich.  Resupply with sandwiches until an agreement is made.  The AACA club and AACA museum belong together.   Gary

This is the best idea that I have heard so far.

There is no reason that the two sides can not get together for the good of

ALL of our members.

[AC Fuhrman]

I will also continue to support both, (just renewed yesterday!) And I agree with others here that say the two belong together, Club and Museum. Hoping for the best in the New Year. Both Executive directors work very hard for us and both boards are made up of dedicated volunteers.

HAPPY MOTORING! 

 

 

[DRH]

4 hours ago, cxgvd said:

 

How about this.  Kick out the lawyers and accountants, bring in a talented mediator with some Guiness and a bit of Glenfiddich.  Resupply with sandwiches until an agreement is made.  The AACA club and AACA museum belong together.   Gary

 

Great idea.  They belong together just as it was intended.  We have enough trouble attracting new blood without this bickering.  Work it out so we can all grow together on one site for future members to enjoy

 

[capngrog]

13 hours ago, MCHinson said:

 

I realize that you are a newcomer to the club and only recently joined the Discussion Forum but I continue to be surprised that people could read the materials presented by AACA from the time that the idea to start the museum was first being discussed until the recent decision by the board to discontinue financial contributions to the museum, and claim that they never realized that the museum was not part of the club.  

 

 

It is condescending attitudes as revealed in the above sentence that have irked me in this entire controversy concerning the AACA Club and the AACA Museum.  The above paragraph implies that those of us who were not aware of the separate LEGAL status of each organization are deficient or dishonest ("... claim that they never realized ...") in some way.  What are "... the materials presented by the AACA from the time ...", and how/when were they presented?  Perhaps I missed the presentation of this material since I've only been a member of the AACA Club for three years. 

 

16 hours ago, MCHinson said:

The Museum has always been considered to be part of the AACA Family, although it was legally a separate organization.

 

Yes, in my limited experience with the AACA, I also considered the AACA Museum to be part of the "Family".  Somewhere in my AACA membership experience, I missed the notice that the AACA Museum was legally a separate organization from the AACA Club.  From the discussions of this thread, it is clear that it had always been the intent of the AACA Club that the Museum would eventually become a LEGAL part of the club; consequently, why would a relative newcomer to the Club (such as myself) assume that the AACA Club was a separate legal entity from the AACA Museum?  Perhaps it would have been less confusing if the Museum had been called the Antique Automobile Museum of America (AAMA) instead of the AACA (Antique Automobile Club of America) Museum.

 

Just Sayin',

Grog

[MCHinson]

Not attempting to be condescending but the materials used by AACA making reference to the museum have always noted the fact that the museum is a separate organization. For those of us who read in Antique Automobile when the Museum was originally created and read everything else published about the museum or by the museum since that time, it should have always been clear.

 

In hindsight, with the close working relationship between the club and the museum over all of those years and the anticipation of an eventual merger from the intial creation of the museum, I can certainly understand how the club did not go out of its way to highlight or advertise that distinction in a manner sufficient to make the casual observer who joined later to note the legal distinction.

 

Hopefully the next issue of Antique Automobile will help people better understand the issue. I look forward to receiving that issue. 

[greenie]

We took advantage of a rare day off to travel 2 hours for a mid-winter visit to the Museum today. There were only a few patrons there at 10:30am, but by 2pm a fair number of folks had arrived. We enjoyed the cars from Italy and of course the Tucker collection. We headed up to the upper level to see the mascots and the club dash plaque collections- but as you can see from the picture, the cabinets with the dash plaques were empty. Sad, as I intended to leave the 1954 Pottstown plaque with the Museum. After all, the very first Fall Meet was hosted by the Pottstown Region, as the Hershey Region wouldn't come along until the next year. I guess we'll just hold on to the plaque until these folks sit down and resolve this matter for the benefit of the members.  I think they know what needs to be done.

Edited December 31, 2016 by greenie (see edit history)

[trimacar]

I find the note in the showcase to be quite a bit like "I'm going to take my ball and go home with it" of our childhoods.

 

What, the Club didn't trust the Museum with a few artifacts?  That really seems silly and childish to me.

 

What is disappointing in all this is that it seems the Club is the organization that's going home with their ball, and that it could still be worked out if  no one tried to be king of the mountain.

 

It will be interesting to see what magic words show up in the AACA Club Magazine that explains all the ins and outs of this decision.

 

 

[1937hd45]

I have the exact opposite reaction trimacar, AACA club history items belong with the Club/Library people, not the tax write off, donation of a car you can't sell it people. Bob

Edited December 31, 2016 by 1937hd45 (see edit history)

[Ronnie]

I agree that the AACA club and the museum should be together - but under the current situation - I think the AACA club logo, (like the one at the top of this page with the three cars), and the AACA Library logo should be removed from the footer of the museum's website. It suggests to their website visitors that they are combined and that's a little misleading. Just my opinion.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 30, 2016 by Ronnie (see edit history)

[trimacar]

Interesting to note that the items were removed November 10th of this year, yet letters to the members weren't mailed until over a month later.  It would seem that as soon as this move was taking place the Club members should have been notified.  The Club leadership obviously knew the negotiations were over.

 

Also, if one reads the documents on the Museum website, it appears that the Club still owes the $80K "support" for 2016, as there is a one year "lag" in this payment.  Can anyone of authority verify that?  And if that's the case, that's part of the "defunding" also, correct?

 

 

[John_S_in_Penna]

1 hour ago, trimacar said:

Also, if one reads the documents on the Museum website, it appears that the Club still owes the $80K "support" for 2016, as there is a one year "lag" in this payment.  Can anyone of authority verify that?  And if that's the case, that's part of the "defunding" also, correct?

 

David, I couldn't find that on the museum's website.

All I saw was their lengthy explanation dated Dec. 19.

Can you point us to where it was?

 

In some prior threads, our AACA employees (elected officials)

said they would be releasing more information to us on the forum.

That should be helpful too.

[padgett]

Wow, 16 pages on what seems to be a hostile takeover attempt (and let the lawyers fight over who owns what name). Was interesting to watch the "Ramblin Man" episode of Chasing Classic Cars as Wayne and Steve visit the museum.

 

Do suspect the library is about to become the shining jewel with worldwide support of the hobby. Should be interesting.

[MCHinson]

David,

 

From my reading of that letter, the museum board is asking (maybe demanding is the right word) that the club continue to send them $80,000 for 2017 on the premise that the club already collected dues from AACA members at the rate that previously included the club's regular donation sent to the museum and thus "owes" that amount to the museum. That is the same letter in which they notified the club that they were removing incoming 2017 AACA President Tom Cox from the museum board. I would suggest that, unless there is some contract in place that covers the club's previous annual donation to the museum that I am not aware of, they wasted the ink in which they demanded that payment. That demand looks like just more "spin control" to me. Sometimes time heals wounds. I think that pouring salt in the wound might mean it takes more time to heal. 

[trimacar]

Here's the letter I was referencing:

 

 

[vermontboy]

It's always preferable to read documents rather than spin. I  thought that they would be forthcoming but unless I missed something they are still "missing" and if that is the case there is still very little to base an opinion on. If that is the case it is disappointing.

[Steve Moskowitz]

Quote

 

David, the museum was given the documentation that all monies owed to them were in fact paid as per our agreement. There was no lag time and how they came to that conclusion is beyond us.  I sign those checks and sent them copies of our minutes showing that our board did not even approve the deal until June 2007 effective 2008 and that we indeed made all payments to them through 2016 (sent them the documentation).  The letter was incorrect and misleading.    

 

The Board of Directors has allowed me to share the Museum's last proposal to the club.  Please read carefully and note what was written in red...it was the club's response.

 

Rationale: The goal of the AACA Museum (the "Museum")  in  offering this proposal is to respect the cooperative and collaborative relationship that the  Museum has had, and hopes to continue, with the AACA (the "Club"), which operates as one of its primary activities the AACA Library & Research Center (the "Library"). This proposal  reflects the Museum's dedication to be a  resource to hobbyists, collectors, educators and other members of the public with an interest in antique motor vehicles and preserving their history. Many of those people, of  course, are AACA members.  This proposal also recognizes the Club's concern   with formalizing the understanding that the parties mutually support one another's charitable and educational  purposes.

As with the Club's previous proposal, this draft has not been formally approved by the Museum's board.  Should the Club receive this proposal favorably- and we hope it will - we think there is a good likelihood that it will be  approved.

The draft proposal is as follows:

1.  The Museum is prepared to make a grant to the Club (at no charge) of a suitable tract of land of approximately 3 acres, to be used for the Club and   theLibrary. We believe such land is worth in excess of $1 million.  On this land, the Club will build a new national headquarters and Library in an aesthetically pleasing style that would fit in the campus appropriately. The location of all of the AACA organizations on a single campus will assist in carrying out our similar charitable and educational purposes. As you will note, they appear to give us this land for free, but if you look at the comments in #3, it is simply not so. Approximately three acres gives the club no room to expand, which perpetuates our current situation, and based upon the topography much of our ground floor could not have windows since the land is severely sloped in that area.  Also they are valuing the land at $330,000 an acre, which has been consistently high based upon our own recent experience with real estate agents and looking at similar properties in the area. 

This grant is based on the understanding that the real estate will be used as described above. If the Club and/or the Library cease to occupy the property, or cease to use the property in furtherance of charitable purposes (as defined by Internal Revenue Code section 501(c)(3)), the real estate would revert to the ownership of the Museum, subject to the Museum reimbursing the Club for the then-fair market value of the improvements  made by the  Club. Should the IRS laws change, modifying our charitable tax status for any reason, our not so free real estate would revert to the Museum with them only reimbursing us for building improvements

2.   With regard to ongoing support, the parties would agree to begin selling a  single type of membership , to be called an "AACA Family Membership", that would provide membership  in both the Club and the Museum.  Further, the parties will continue the cooperative working relationship as they have enjoyed in the past. The Museum should have been supporting membership in AACA National for the entire time of its existence particularly in light of the financial largesse of our club and its members, and the need to further interest in the hobby. They have done little to this point in our relationship to support the club.

The Club will continue its current level of support to the Museum through    the 2018 dues year, after which the Club will provide support to the Museum in an amount equal to $10 per membership. All Museum memberships will become AACA Family Memberships, thus both entities will sell one type of membership. Current Museum-only memberships would be transferred to "AACA Family" memberships, thus providing the economic base to increase total support.  As part of this agreement they now demand we increase our tithing to them from approximately $80,000 to $300,000 plus annually!!

 

3.            With regard to capital fund-raising, the Club will take a leadership role in an "AACA Family" fund-raising drive, and the Museum    will assist.    The stated goal of the fund-raising drive will be to raise funds to pay for the new building for the Club and Library, and the expansion of the Museum. All proceeds raised from this fund-raising drive will be divided equally between the Club and the   Museum.     So, here is the crux.  FREE land is not free.  A new 30,000 sq ft bldg. could cost as much as $6,000,000 if at $200 a sq ft.  With all the special needs and construction rates here that is probably low but it would mean we would have to raise $12,000,000 which means…so they want us to pay $6,000,000 for piece of property they have over valued at 1 million that does not completely suit our needs. They also specify the main responsibility for raising these funds lies with the Club. To accept such a one sided deal would be a complete and total abdication of our fiduciary responsibility as well as our ethical responsibility to our membership. 

4.  The Club will use its share of the fundraising proceeds toward the construction of its new headquarters  and the new  Library facilities.   The Museum will use its share of the fundraising  proceeds to expand  its display space. 

5.   The Club will create a position Director opening on its Board to be filled by a Museum Board  Member, to be designated  by the President of the Museum  Board. 

6.    We understand the Club's concern about encouraging its members to support the Museum when the two organizations are completely separate. To address this concern, and to formalize the two organizations' mutual support of one another's purposes  in pursuit of the "AACA family" objectives, each organization  will amend  its Bylaws to provide that one of its purposes is to support the mission of  the other.  The amendment will be subject to review by counsel of each  organization to confirm that the statement is consistent with Code section   50l(c)(3).  This is a slight of hand, and would be a blatant deception of our membership, creating a closer relationship in appearance only.  By-Laws can be changed at a moment’s notice by their board as they are self-appointed. Without a true equity stake in the Museum, our membership and the club are donating money to a separate organization, which can change its mission statement to one contrary to that of the club, or even convey its collection to an entity other than AACA National should they encounter financial hardship. There is no protection for the goodwill of our membership and our club.

 

7.            Each organization continues to maintain its separate EIN and Board of Directors.   The two organizations  may share personnel  and/or services to the extent mutually agreed, in which event the costs will be shared on a mutually agreeable basis. 

 So there you go folks.  That was their LAST offer to us and as far as we are concerned the worst proposal we had received since the very beginning.  If we had agreed to this proposal we would have sold out our membership to another entity not legally related to AACA and taken your money to do it!

As for the comment, I really did not understand it, about our Library being special well we already believe it is so.  It is the only automotive library in the WORLD to our knowledge with three librarians with their masters degree.  They are doing cutting edge work and ours is a FREE public library that helps people all over the world.  We have almost 1.5 Million documents and expect several more large collections to be housed here in the coming years.  It is already something that the club and our members are extremely proud of and they deserve our support. 

AACA's library was also a separate 501 C 3 just like the museum.  However, after the club got its 501 C 3 in 2004 it only took a year 1/2 to finalize and get approval for a merger and we stand together today.

 I hope some of this helps your understanding of the situation we find ourselves in today and why our board acting in the best interest of AACA and its members HAD to make the decision they did. 

 

 

[trimacar]

Thank you for the reply, Steve.  The verbiage in the above, from the Museum, is definitely quite a bit different than the Letter of Intent that has previously been discussed.  In the LOI, an addition of 45,000 square feet to the Museum was discussed, of which 30,000 square feet would have been for the Club, and only monies raised over and above the cost of the addition went to the Museum.

 

Quite a bit different.  As far as the additional money for the Museum, from the Club members, raising dues $10 per member would have minimal impact on number of Club members, at $35 a year it's one of the least expensive memberships in the old car club world......but. of course,  that's a moot point if the Club and Museum are destined not to join forces....

[W_Higgins]

16 minutes ago, Steve Moskowitz said:

7.            Each organization continues to maintain its separate EIN and Board of Directors.   The two organizations  may share personnel  and/or services to the extent mutually agreed, in which event the costs will be shared on a mutually agreeable basis. 

 

 

 

Steve, this point, as well as many others in the rejected "Family Proposal" of Oct. 2016, were detailed less than a year prior in the Nov. 2015 "Letter of Intent" signed by the respective presidents of both the Club and Museum.  In this specific instance, "Both Club and Museum Entities Survive after Unification":

 

http://www.aacamuseum.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/DOC-1_Final-signed-Letter-of-Intent-11-23-2015.pdf

 

I think a lot of why people have trouble getting over the hump with this is: Why were so many of these provisions in the Letter of Intent acceptable enough that a year ago the Club signed it (not to mention 1-1/2 years into the start of the 2-1/2 year negotiations) and then a short time later they were not? 

[MCHinson]

Walter,

 

Why the straw man argument? There are 7 points in the museum's final offer. Steve refuted points 1-6 and you are now arguing about point number 7? I don't understand your logic, unless you simply wish to confuse people by attempting to draw attention away from the facts.

[Guest]

Steve, thanks for your last post. I am in agreement with your careful analysis of, and response to, the various points of the museums' proposal. No deal is far better than a bad deal. You hit the nail on the head with "... to accept such a one sided deal would be a complete and total abdication of our fiduciary responsibility as well as our ethical responsibility to our membership." It appears that the Museum board believed that the Club would do/give anything to locate next to them on a common campus. They overplayed their hand. Well done.

[W_Higgins]

22 minutes ago, MCHinson said:

Walter,

 

Why the straw man argument? There are 7 points in the museum's final offer. Steve refuted points 1-6 and you are now arguing about point number 7? I don't understand your logic, unless you simply wish to confuse people by attempting to draw attention away from the facts.

There is no "straw man".  I used that as an example as #7 was a previously discussed point of contention and I seriously doubt it highlighted itself.

 

Poster "AACA National Board" stated ten days ago, "We are having technical issues posting the LOI and other documents in a format which allows embedded commentary. We will resolve that issue tomorrow."  Unless I missed it, I still haven't seen any club documentation pertaining to the last 2-1/2 years.  While I understand things change during negotiations, as that is the point of negotiating, many of the points made in Steve's post above (yes, including 1 through 6) are covered if not literally, than in spirit, in the Letter of Intent.  That is why I'm curious as to how the LoI went from being something that was worth building upon, to the rejected proposal above being considered so far off the reservation, when in large part it is not earth-shatteringly different.

 

 

 

 

 

[MCHinson]

5 minutes ago, W_Higgins said:

That is why I'm curious as to how the LoI went from being something that was worth building upon, to the rejected proposal above being considered so far off the reservation, when in large part it is not earth-shatteringly different.

 

I would think you should ask the Museum Board of Directors. They are the ones who made major changes which were then correctly rejected by the AACA Board of Directors. 

[R W Burgess]

3 hours ago, Steve Moskowitz said:

 

 

This grant is based on the understanding that the real estate will be used as described above. If the Club and/or the Library cease to occupy the property, or cease to use the property in furtherance of charitable purposes (as defined by Internal Revenue Code section 501(c)(3)), the real estate would revert to the ownership of the Museum, This is a ridiculous statement. To say that we ever agreed to anything remotely similar to this is completely wrong. This basically says that the Museum (still a separate entity?) still claims the property as theirs. 

 

The Club will continue its current level of support to the Museum through    the 2018 dues year, after which the Club will provide support to the Museum in an amount equal to $10 per membership. All Museum memberships will become AACA Family Memberships, thus both entities will sell one type of membership. Current Museum-only memberships would be transferred to "AACA Family" memberships, thus providing the economic base to increase total support.  As part of this agreement they now demand we increase our tithing to them from approximately $80,000 to $300,000 plus annually!!  What no one has mentioned is that even if we agreed to increase our member donations to the Museum to $10.00 per AACA member, our dues would have to increase by the same amount. We/AACA are doing our best now, to keep our dues at the same $35.00 per year. 

3.            With regard to capital fund-raising, ......The stated goal of the fund-raising drive will be to raise funds to pay for the new building for the Club and Library, and the expansion of the Museum. All proceeds raised from this fund-raising drive will be divided equally between the Club and the   Museum.     To accept such a one sided deal would be a complete and total abdication of our fiduciary responsibility as well as our ethical responsibility to our membership. I agree with this totally. AACA's mission right now is to have new facilities for the AACA Library and AACA Headquarters. We will have to be financially aggressive to even accomplish this.

5.   The Club will create a position Director opening on its Board to be filled by a Museum Board  Member, to be designated  by the President of the Museum  Board. I have a problem with an un-elected person on the Board of the AACA. We are member elected Board Members

 

6.    We understand the Club's concern about encouraging its members to support the Museum when the two organizations are completely separate. To address this concern, and to formalize the two organizations' mutual support of one another's purposes  in pursuit of the "AACA family" objectives, each organization  will amend  its Bylaws to provide that one of its purposes is to support the mission of  the other.  The amendment will be subject to review by counsel of each  organization to confirm that the statement is consistent with Code section   50l(c)(3).  This is a slight of hand, and would be a blatant deception of our membership, creating a closer relationship in appearance only.  By-Laws can be changed at a moment’s notice by their board as they are self-appointed. I agree completely with this statement!  The AACA Board was originally established to be fairly member elected. There can be NO OTHER option to this decision! 

Without a true equity stake in the Museum, our membership and the club are donating money to a separate organization, which can change its mission statement to one contrary to that of the club, or even convey its collection to an entity other than AACA National should they encounter financial hardship. There is no protection for the goodwill of our membership and our club.

 

7.            Each organization continues to maintain its separate EIN and Board of Directors.  Again this is the biggest issue in my estimation. The two organizations  may share personnel  and/or services to the extent mutually agreed, in which event the costs will be shared on a mutually agreeable basis. 

 

 

 

 

Please read what I have posted above in GREEN! The most important part of any merger by the AACA is to have a member elected Board. The second most important part is to not burden our members with unreasonable financial decisions. We have to be economically viable for the AACA Mission of the antique car hobby!

 

Wayne

[John_S_in_Penna]

2 hours ago, W_Higgins said:

That is why I'm curious as to how the LOI went from being something that was worth building upon, to the rejected proposal above being considered so far off the reservation, when in large part it is not earth-shatteringly different.

 

Walter, I can see the board's point about how one

part of the Letter of Intent was not wise.  They said

the board's lawyer noticed one undesirable aspect:

 

The Letter of Intent would have created an overseeing

organization, and the Club and the Museum would have

been 2 entities below the overseeing organization.

The lawyer noted that such an arrangement would

disenfranchise (take away the voting power of) the

AACA members!  We would be electing AACA Club officials,

but would have no power over an unelected overseeing group.

There would be no checks and balances over the overseeing group.

 

In essence, there should be no "big brother" overseeing organization

above our AACA.  The people who signed the L.O.I. clearly didn't

realize that, but thankfully a wise lawyer (yes, there are some!) did!

Edited January 1, 2017 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[W_Higgins]

27 minutes ago, John_S_in_Penna said:

 

Walter, I can see the board's point about how one

part of the Letter of Intent was not wise.  They said

the board's lawyer noticed one undesirable aspect:

 

The Letter of Intent would have created an overseeing

organization, and the Club and the Museum would have

been 2 entities below the overseeing organization.

The lawyer noted that such an arrangement would

disenfranchise (take away the voting power of) the

AACA members!  We would be electing AACA Club officials,

but would have no power over an unelected overseeing group.

There would be no checks and balances over the overseeing group.

 

In essence, there should be no "big brother" overseeing organization

above our AACA.  The people who signed the L.O.I. clearly didn't

realize that, but thankfully a wise lawyer (yes, there are some!) did!

 

I can understand the reluctance of a "big brother" subjugation on the part of either party and in the position of the Museum there is likely a "what's good for the goose is good for the gander" angle to it since the alternative was apparently for them to subjugate completely.

 

The Letter of Intent does spell out that the overseer "Family" board would consist of "3 elected representatives from the Club, 3 elected representatives from the Museum, and 3 additional , independent, representatives, who may be from outside of the Club or Museum".  It is unique arrangement, though an intriguingly inclusive one.  I wouldn't say it is without checks and balances.  As earlier discussed, the Museum already had a standing spot for a representative from the Club, so such a precedent exists.      

[MCHinson]

26 minutes ago, W_Higgins said:

 

 I wouldn't say it is without checks and balances.  As earlier discussed, the Museum already had a standing spot for a representative from the Club, so such a precedent exists.      

 

Although we also just found out that the Museum Board will throw that Club Representative off of their board if he or she ever does anything to upset them...

 

That does not sound like much of a "checks and balances" system to me.

[Doug Novak]

I would have to think at this point, the negative far out ways the positive in continuing to move towards a merger. The Club clearly needs to move on with finding a new location for expansion, other then accept the terms of the Museum as described in the recent posts.  

[Bhigdog]

10 hours ago, Doug Novak said:

would have to think at this point, the negative far out ways the positive in continuing to move towards a merger

 

Museums!  We don't need no stinking museums.....................Bob

[Guest jwsamuel]

On 12/29/2016 at 10:42 PM, MCHinson said:

I wonder what membership materials you were reading and if you got them from the museum or elsewhere. 

 

 

While I have never inquired about membership in the Museum, I would assume that the museum has AACA Museum membership information available at the museum. I have seen the museum's membership program described on its website and really see no reason an AACA member would want to join the Museum as well.

 

I am looking at the Antique Automobile Club of America Membership Information brochure and a Membership Application. The brochure page that describes the museum clearly lists "AACA Museum, Inc." at the top of the page. It includes the statement, "Unlimited FREE admission to the Museum for AACA members. You must show your current year AACA membership card."  This statement is factual. It is not misleading.

 

The back of the application section titled AACA Museum, indicates "Your current year membership card entitles you to unlimited free admission. The AACA Museum was incorporated in 1993 and was completed in 2003. The facilities encompass over 80,000 squre feet and houses approximately 100 collector vehicles. A gift shop, educational programs and a regular change of exhibits can be found at the museum. Visit www.aacamuseum.org or call 717-466-7100." This is also factual. It clearly directs the reader to the museum's website. 

 

I don't think that any organization typically goes to great extreme to explain all of the details of its business relationships with associated organizations in its membership materials. I personally think that AACA has typically gone further than many organizations in revealing a lot of details that actually meant nothing to the casual observer until the museum board changed their direction from their previous harmonious relationship with the club. It appears to me that you, like apparently many others, glossed over some of the details and now you wish to complain about being "misled".

 

I realize that you are a newcomer to the club and only recently joined the Discussion Forum but I continue to be surprised that people could read the materials presented by AACA from the time that the idea to start the museum was first being discussed until the recent decision by the board to discontinue financial contributions to the museum, and claim that they never realized that the museum was not part of the club.  

 

 

"I wonder what membership materials you were reading and if you got them from the museum or elsewhere. "

The AACA website. All references to the museum seem to have been removed now.  The museum website says to go to the AACA website for membership information.

" I have seen the museum's membership program described on its website and really see no reason an AACA member would want to join the Museum as well."

As well, being the key phrase. Now, the question to me is support AACA or the museum.

 

"I personally think that AACA has typically gone further than many organizations in revealing a lot of details that actually meant nothing to the casual observer until the museum board changed their direction from their previous harmonious relationship with the club. It appears to me that you, like apparently many others, glossed over some of the details and now you wish to complain about being "misled"."

 

Do you really expect a prospective new member to go through all the details of the organization when he or she decides to join? Do you think that maybe the fact that both the museum and club share the AACA designation is a indication that they are one and the same. Now, I know that someone else used the example of Studebaker Drivers Club and Studebaker Museum, but it is important to note that they have different names. If the museum were called the "Studebaker Drivers Club Museum" it would be indicative that they were the same.

 

"I realize that you are a newcomer to the club and only recently joined the Discussion Forum but I continue to be surprised that people could read the materials presented by AACA from the time that the idea to start the museum was first being discussed until the recent decision by the board to discontinue financial contributions to the museum, and claim that they never realized that the museum was not part of the club. "

Again, do you really expect a prospective new member to go back and look at historical materials to make sure he is not being misled by the club?

I'm sorry but the more you try to convince me that I am wrong and the more you act as an apologist for the club, the more you convince me that I should not renew my membership beyond 2017. I am sorry I renewed this year and would not do so if I knew a month ago what I know now. 

I just wish someone would acknowledge that the relationship between the two organizations was confusing -- intentional or not -- and that some new members may have been misled. All the apologists for the club just make me trust the club board of directors even less than I did two weeks ago.

 

I now plan to use my 2017 membership to go to the museum and then forget it after that.

 

Jim

[Guest jwsamuel]

On 12/29/2016 at 11:39 PM, oldcarfudd said:

Last year's membership card includes the museum logo "AACA Museum" and, in very small print, 'The Antique Automobile Club Museum".  That would have suggested to me, a year ago, had I cared enough to look, that both the library and the museum were part of the AACA.

 

That's why I feel misled.

 

Jim

[Guest jwsamuel]

On 12/30/2016 at 1:20 PM, capngrog said:

 

It is condescending attitudes as revealed in the above sentence that have irked me in this entire controversy concerning the AACA Club and the AACA Museum.  The above paragraph implies that those of us who were not aware of the separate LEGAL status of each organization are deficient or dishonest ("... claim that they never realized ...") in some way.  What are "... the materials presented by the AACA from the time ...", and how/when were they presented?  Perhaps I missed the presentation of this material since I've only been a member of the AACA Club for three years. 

 

 

Bingo. That's why the discussion on this forum and the attempt by some to convince me I am wrong for feeling misled have only made me feel worse about the AACA.

 

Jim

[Guest jwsamuel]

On 12/31/2016 at 7:42 AM, trimacar said:

Interesting to note that the items were removed November 10th of this year, yet letters to the members weren't mailed until over a month later.  It would seem that as soon as this move was taking place the Club members should have been notified.  The Club leadership obviously knew the negotiations were over.

 

Could it be that the club board knew but did not want to make the announcement until most members had already renewed for 2017?

 

That's how it appears to me.

 

Jim

[mike6024]

17 hours ago, R W Burgess said:

By-Laws can be changed at a moment’s notice by their board as they are self-appointed.

 

Interesting. Kind of incredible. "By the powers invested in me, I do hereby appoint myself." Is that how it goes? And how did the Club's appointee to the Museum Board get removed? If he was the Club's appointee it should be up to the Club who has that seat. Now the Museum Board is telling the Club they need to appoint a replacement.

[R W Burgess]

24 minutes ago, jwsamuel said:

 

Could it be that the club board knew but did not want to make the announcement until most members had already renewed for 2017?

 

That's how it appears to me.

 

Jim

 

Jim, the Board was giving the Museum every opportunity to unite with AACA, even in late October, early November. We were still giving them that opportunity through the Christmas Holiday actually. Naturally, it takes time to formulate an appropriate letter that does not confuse the general membership about the details of our "divorce: (In other words to avoid what everyone on this web site seems to be going through.)  We are still friends, as far as I am concerned by the way, because we have  a similar mission. My Brick is still out front, unless someone stole it. 

 

So now we have moved on. This web site now does not have a Museum link. That's not to say that we could not possibly merge at some future date. We just wont be using their property as our part of any union in the future.

 

Wayne

[R W Burgess]

1 minute ago, mike6024 said:

 

Interesting. Kind of incredible. "By the powers invested in me, I do hereby appoint myself." Is that how it goes? And how did the Club's appointee to the Museum Board get removed? If he was the Club's appointee it should be up to the Club who has that seat. Now the Museum Board is telling the Club they need to appoint a replacement.

 

That's very similar to "how it goes". This has happened before with other groups. We just had a region down South that had this very thing happen. It was very messy towards the end.

 

Our appointee was dismissed, by letter! 

 

Now the Museum Board is telling the Club they need to appoint a replacement. 

No, we were still having our club President as a representative. Although that may change now. They make those decisions.

There is a phone number for them somewhere in this thread, Give them a ring!

[Rooney3100]

AACA's library was also a separate 501 C 3 just like the museum.  However, after the club got its 501 C 3 in 2004 it only took a year 1/2 to finalize and get approval for a merger and we stand together today.

 I hope some of this helps your understanding of the situation we find ourselves in today and why our board acting in the best interest of AACA and its members HAD to make the decision they did. 

How about if the AACA Club moves on with it's  501 C 3  and the Library's 501 C 3 Build a New building on different land and forget about the original  Museum....Once the Library is built on separate land can the AACA club have it's own Museum with a 501 C 3 ? Just asking....STEVE M   

Edited January 1, 2017 by Rooney3100 (see edit history)

[MCHinson]

25 minutes ago, Rooney3100 said:

AACA's library was also a separate 501 C 3 just like the museum.  However, after the club got its 501 C 3 in 2004 it only took a year 1/2 to finalize and get approval for a merger and we stand together today.

 I hope some of this helps your understanding of the situation we find ourselves in today and why our board acting in the best interest of AACA and its members HAD to make the decision they did. 

How about if the AACA Club moves on with it's  501 C 3  and the Library's 501 C 3 Build a New building on different land and forget about the original  Museum....Once the Library is built on separate land can the AACA club have it's own Museum with a 501 C 3 ? Just asking....STEVE M  

 

The club is obviously going to move forward to address its needs for a larger Library and Headquarters Building.

 

I don't think that AACA has any interest in starting another museum. The club started the existing museum. No matter if the museum board comes to its senses and works towards a return to some sort of relationship with the club or not, there is no need for another antique automobile museum in the Hershey area. Starting another museum would not be in the best interest of the club or the hobby overall.

[Rooney3100]

8 minutes ago, MCHinson said:

 

The club is obviously going to move forward to address its needs for a larger Library and Headquarters Building.

 

I don't think that AACA has any interest in starting another museum. The club started the existing museum. No matter if the museum board comes to its senses and works towards a return to some sort of relationship with the club or not, there is no need for another antique automobile museum in the Hershey area. Starting another museum would not be in the best interest of the club or the hobby overall.

In other words a Club Headquarters and a Library would be Satisfactory?  I was thinking in the future that if I couldn't leave my truck to a family member I would like to donate it to a museum....Preferably to the AACA Club Museum...:)

Edited January 1, 2017 by Rooney3100 (see edit history)

[MCHinson]

That is what the club needs. The existing facility is not large enough. The urgent need for this expansion was the primary reason the club needed to put a deadline on efforts to merge with the museum. If the merger could have happened, the headquarters/library could have been built at the museum site. Since it is evident that an appropriate merger agreement could not be reached, it is time to move on with the buidling project elsewhere. The club does not need a museum. The club does need a larger library and headquarters building.