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Beemon

Cost of Body/Paint Restoration?

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3 hours ago, Beemon said:

making the big bucks

Now that's a goal!

Right now spend on cheap paint job and shelter for the car and if the shelter is big enough consider working on it yourself.

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13 hours ago, alsancle said:

 

I wasn't talking about restoration, I was talking about paint.  Restoration numbers are 5 to 10x that.  You are correct that 95% of cars are not worth restoring.

Agreed -- but that was my point: paint is only part of the equation. If you're spending $20K on paint, and if the rest of the project is 5 to 10x that, you're talking well into 6 figures.  Ain't many cars worth anything close to that from a financial perspective.  You better be working on a Duesenberg or something, because there aren't many Buicks which can justify that kind of investment.

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12 hours ago, Beemon said:

I'm definitely not selling my car. This car means more to me than anything I own, which isn't a lot, but besides the point. My grandfather bought this car for my now deceased grandmother and it's the only thing he had to hold on to that reminds him of her. I would rather spend $20,000 on this car than buy another.

 

13 hours ago, 60FlatTop said:

Sentimentality can be a tough trap to extract yourself from, but if you get something really nice it is not that hard to learn to live with the loss of the one that needed all the work.

 

*Sigh*  ...and that is the dilemma.  I have the same situation with my '56 Bel Air that was purchased new by my grandparents and personally owned since my 15th birthday.  I have continually lowered my expectations for the final product to the point that i now simply hope to get it back to a state similar to what it would have been when it was 5 ~ 10 years old.  It's currently waiting patiently in my garage as my primary post-retirement project.

Edited by EmTee
typo (see edit history)

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13 hours ago, Beemon said:

so after I'm graduated and making the big bucks, I'll do it up right. 

 

If you are truly emotionally bonded to the car you may find that doing what you can both financially and with your own hands far more rewarding than simply dropping it off at some shop and writing checks. Paying someone else to restore a car is a bit like paying for sex..................Bob

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This is just my opinion, but many hobbyists get bogged down by "doing it up right."  My beater Dart is the car I have the most fun with, and even though it looks the worst of my whole fleet by far, that doesn't stop people from inundating me to ask questions and drool over it any time it's parked.  Why not enjoy the car until that day when you can restore it (if that's your desire)?  Could you temporarily paint it a flat color or use epoxy primer just to get it on the road and enjoy it for awhile?  

 

 

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Its only been since I came over here and started reading this forum that I realized all my cars are gonna have gray primer for the rest of my life.

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3 hours ago, Aaron65 said:

This is just my opinion, but many hobbyists get bogged down by "doing it up right."  My beater Dart is the car I have the most fun with, and even though it looks the worst of my whole fleet by far, that doesn't stop people from inundating me to ask questions and drool over it any time it's parked.  Why not enjoy the car until that day when you can restore it (if that's your desire)?  Could you temporarily paint it a flat color or use epoxy primer just to get it on the road and enjoy it for awhile?  

 

 

 

 

There's no shortage of enjoying it here. Since I lost storage and it sits out in the rain, I drive it almost daily now.

 

6 hours ago, Bhigdog said:

 

If you are truly emotionally bonded to the car you may find that doing what you can both financially and with your own hands far more rewarding than simply dropping it off at some shop and writing checks. Paying someone else to restore a car is a bit like paying for sex..................Bob

 

I try to do everything on my own. Painting my car in a shared driveway at my mom's place is a no-go for two reasons:

  1. too many cars
  2. mother won't allow it

Only two more years of schooling before I'm out. I can take it, but the car can't - hence my questioning.

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9 hours ago, Bhigdog said:

 

If you are truly emotionally bonded to the car you may find that doing what you can both financially and with your own hands far more rewarding than simply dropping it off at some shop and writing checks. Paying someone else to restore a car is a bit like paying for sex..................Bob

Or like paying someone else to have sex for you. ;)

 

It's the emotional component that's hard to quantify.  For those of us who mostly do our own wrenching (who don't have an "engine guy", an "exhaust guy", a "suspension guy", etc.), much of the payoff comes from the accomplishment of doing it yourself.  Much of the benefit is that you're much more in tune with the car; you know the condition, you know how it works, and you know when something's not right.  And if you've got a car which has some specific history (e.g. your first car or one that was handed down through a generation or two), there's no way to put a dollar figure on that.  So you try to be sensible, knowing full well that you maybe aren't -- but you don't care, because that's not the point.

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On Wednesday, December 14, 2016 at 5:58 PM, Beemon said:

I'm definitely not selling my car. This car means more to me than anything I own, which isn't a lot, but besides the point. My grandfather bought this car for my now deceased grandmother and it's the only thing he had to hold on to that reminds him of her. I would rather spend $20,000 on this car than buy another. 

 

Thanks everyone for the information. The price tag is off setting,  and probably won't be anything to accomplish short term. I still have 2.5 years at the college, so for now I'm going to try my hand at body work and drop a Maaco paint job on it. Every shop I talked to will sand blast it no matter what I do, so after I'm graduated and making the big bucks, I'll do it up right. 

I am glad those bumper pieces are going on this car.  Good luck to you! 

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Beemon … have done this many times, so take a look at these cost allowances :

 

Airplane Stripper 2 gallons : $ 105

Plastic and Metal Scrappers : $ 35

Paper Towels @ $ 3.00/roll :   $ 60

3M Paper Masks vented for dust : Box of 10 - $ 18

3M Full Face Respirator : $ 125

3M N95 Carbon Filters: $ 10/pack of 2

Latex Gloves light duty, Box of 100 : $ 7

Poly Latex Gloves 9mil heavy duty, Box of 100 $ 12

 

2-stage air compressor used bought off of Craigslist with real 5 hp motor & 55 gallon tank (min) :  $ 450

Associated hoses: 1/2 diameter 50 ft & 25 ft:  $ 70

Associated attachments: $ 50

Associated air power grinders, cutters, D.A. buffers/sanders etc bought used off of craigslist, ebay, sears or harbor freight:  $ 250 or less for everything you'll need

 

Sand Paper 3M @ $ 1.25 avg per sheet cost / various grits :  $ 110

Sanding Blocks various sizes :  $ 75

Masking Tape @ $ 4.75/roll avg cost / various widths/types : $ 60

Masking Paper Rolls as needed :  $ 40 for 10 rolls 24 inch wide

 

Spray Gun either good used HVLP or good used Conventional w/ 1.8 mm tip/cap combo : Again used $ 100 or less 

Epoxy Universal Urethane Reducer: 1-Gallon $ 45

Epoxy Primer w/ catalyst :  1-Gallon $ 130 - example: S.P.I. Epoxy Primer

Polyester Primer w/catalyst :  1-Gallon $ 75

High Build Urethane based primer: 1- Gallon $ 85

Body filler:  Rage or Fiberglass based : $ 55/Gallon

3M Body Polyester Finish Filler Paste: $ 35/qrt

 

Spray Gun for Top Coat: Again good used item: : $ 100 or less

Dupont Nasson or Restoration Shop Single Stage Urethane: 1-Gallon $ 130 plus Activator: $ 40

Urethane Reducer: Again $ 45

 

Electric D.A. Buffer: Good used: $ 50

Polisher heads, paste, rubbing compound, wax etc:  $ 125

 

Miscellaneous Items account:  $ 250

 

Costs Approximately: $ 2.500.00 

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The only question I'd have is buying a used gun.  That can be a real crap shoot, as you often don't know how (or if) the PO maintained it.  If the tip's boogered or if he cleaned the internal passages with an electric drill or if it's full of dried paint, setting it up so you can dial it in for a nice pattern can be quite a challenge.  I might also suggest a gauge mounted at the gun so you know exactly what the pressure is where it counts.  And an inline filter/water trap at the tank.  And don't skimp on the compressor.  You don't want to have to work around the limitations of your compressor; "spray a minute, wait a minute" is no way to do this.

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Sad but reading many responses would/should make one run away from the hobby.   :wacko:Unfortunately much is true but we carry-on like troopers. 

I'd keep the car in rattle can primer until you get out of school and get well established in the working world. You may regret the Macco job if you plan to redo it right eventually. trust me on that. Use the little money you have to keep it in good running condition. 

 

in the future I will NEVER do another car that I have to take to a body shop. If it needs paint I'll build a temp booth and do it with single stage paint myself like I did in my teens and 20s. 

Bad body shop experiences are too common and most good experiences go deep into bank account. 

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Have I been mislead.  I always believed that "primer" was not weatherproof.  It's sole purpose is to bind the paint to the metal.  It's not any protection from surface rust over an extended period of time.   ?????

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On 12/14/2016 at 5:58 PM, Beemon said:

 I would rather spend $20,000 on this car than buy another. 

 

 

That's exactly why people spend more money restoring these cars than they are "worth."  My grandpa's bittersweet model 41 was turned into paperclips a long time ago, but he liked the car so much, he bought a white one used for my uncles to drive.

 

Our Maaco paint job was a stop-gap.  We put a coat of black lacquer on the car back in '95, and it looked nice for about 3 years before the Kansas sun had it looking just like it did.  The car would get cover in the summer, but no home in the winter.  We didn't want to put another coat of paint on it only to have it be destroyed, but the car was deteriorating because of the failed paint.  We knew the Maaco job wouldn't be perfect, but we didn't give them perfect to begin with.  It was more of a preservation effort than restoration effort, and a Maaco job is more than adequate for that.

 

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1 hour ago, Tinindian said:

Have I been mislead.  I always believed that "primer" was not weatherproof.  It's sole purpose is to bind the paint to the metal.  It's not any protection from surface rust over an extended period of time.   ?????

Of course its not weatherproof.......compared to a top coat but its better than nothing and its CHEAP. Back when I had little money from paycheck to paycheck, (remember not having $1 in my wallet for a Big Mac) I rattle can primed a daily driver 67 Riv that had thin paint and surface rust coming through. I drove it like that for a couple years in nasty western PA salty road winters and SURE it had to be touched up occasionally but at least it was one color and it prevented surface rust. :unsure: When someone has little money, you must make do with what you can afford and that was the cheapest solution for me offering some degree of temporary protection.

 

My suggestion is simply that, a suggestion and in no way indicates its the only option. Merely food for thought and Beemon can decide whats best for him.

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Benjamin, I think you have made a wise choice!!!   I have  Maaco job on mine. Kinda their mid priced job.  Painted in '09 and still looks good . Probably as good as came from the factory. If I had paid $10,000. for a paint job, I would have been nervous as hell every time some walked by it. As it is, I enjoy folks looking. And for the price, if it fades after a few years, do it again. And STILL be money ahead.

 

  Good luck.

 

  Ben

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… our quick flow sheet above was prepared to illustrate one does not have to spend 6k to 12k for a paint job, IF you eliminate having "others" doing & holding your hand … many of the items included are reusable tools & equipment.  If the compressor is 2-stage and the electric motor on it is a true i.e.. Baldwin 5 h.p. motor and with at least a 55 gallon tank you will have absolutely no worries with running out of cfm capacity … our mantra is if you are gonna do and expend your time on anything, then do it right even if that means doing it in stages so you won't have to do it again, and that becomes more true as you get older and and are staring at having less time in which to do things.  believe me, I know what not having anything means, been there - done that more than just a few times … Epoxy based primers will not allow oxidation to occur where the epoxy is covering the substrate.  The hard polyester primers and softer urethane high build primers will cover and protect the epoxy from U.V. damage while the on the other hand, rattle can lacquer primers alone will allow not protect against moisture penetration as well by a much larger margin ...

 

Another approach is one can do one section or quarter area of the car at a time and still keep it a driver.  If having to store outside, purchase  a good 5-layer / 7-layer car cover then a good 9mil silver tarp.  The tarp will protect from outside contaminates and direct water while the layered cover will wick and breath trapped moisture away from the car surface to a considerable degree thus allowing a greater measure of preservation ….

 

 

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I am trying hard to remember any bad idea that someone talked me out of when I was in my late teens or early 20's. None come to mind. I don't even remember any of the "informed" suggestions.

 

Three cars came my way from my Grandmother. One was a '36 Chevy 2 door that she had been driving on the farm when they bought an old mansion in town. I think it is still floating around the area somewhere. I sold it. If it had been something special I would have expected her to keep it in a little better shape. It needed everything and the lower rear seat cushion was missing because you couldn't carry milk cans with it in the way.

 

It is hard to keep something as a monument to someone's life. My Mother tried to keep my Father's black '75 LTD after he passed away in '79. That was a long exercise in futility for all of us. I finally pried it out of her hands by showing up in a nice black Buick like her Mother would have owned. I baited her with memories of her Mother and disposed of my Dad's, by them, junker.

 

I talked my Dad into buying a 1960 T-Bird to restore in his retirement. He died early. I sold the car and bought a really good floor jack in his memory. He endlessly squawked about getting under jacked up cars. I figured it was appropriate. That got old and worn. I threw it out for a spring pick up a while ago.

 

My Great Grandfather died in 1956. He had drawers full of wooden cigar boxes full on hardware. My Dad saved all that stuff in a tool shed we had out in back. Then I got it. After 20 years of my custodianship I threw out the hardware and the shed they were in. I sold a couple of the cigar boxes.

 

I have a lifetime collection of my own stuff, chosen by me because I liked it, not some misplaced duty to create a monument to anyone. And I am divesting myself of a lot of that. I'll take the cash for what is worth something and toss the rest to avoid a misperceived burden on the heirs. just in case they feel that.

 

The point of all this is, if you are nominally 20 years old and have $20,000 you need to think long and hard before you sink it into a rolling liability of a monument. I know if my Grandmother found out I dropped $20,000 into that old Chevy she had she probably couldn't help but utter that word old women say when the person across from them shouts "Bingo".

 

Go back to the first sentence.

 

Bernie

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I don't have $20,000 to spend, it was a metaphor. This is my first car, my first classic car and the only property I own on top of being a family heirloom. If I had $20,000 to throw around, I wouldn't have spent the last 5 years working on a 3 year AS degree. The car is just a personal reward that I saved up for from 2010 to get on the road. The whole point of this thread was to confirm for myself whether or not I was being taken advantage of because I literally have no idea. Turns out I was given a fair price, I can't afford it so now I'm going with the inexpensive alternative. 

 

Buick man, thanks for the run down. I don't think it's impossible, but at this time I don't have the space to do it where the car currently sits. Technically I'm not supposed to do my own oil changes in the driveway, but I break that rule when the overseer is gone.

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It is OK to put more into a car than it is worth to others.  As long as you have a passion for that car/model.  When a cousin found out that I wanted a convertible to restore, she offered (free) a 58 Edsel convertible.  It had not run in 30 years, stored in shed in Wisconsin.  I had a buddy look at it and the report was that it was in fantastic condition.  I declined and he bought it at a fair price.  I did not have a passion for Edsels, not even a free one (except for shipping)...I ended up with what I wanted.

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1 hour ago, old-tank said:

It is OK to put more into a car than it is worth to others.  As long as you have a passion for that car/model.  When a cousin found out that I wanted a convertible to restore, she offered (free) a 58 Edsel convertible.  It had not run in 30 years, stored in shed in Wisconsin.  I had a buddy look at it and the report was that it was in fantastic condition.  I declined and he bought it at a fair price.  I did not have a passion for Edsels, not even a free one (except for shipping)...I ended up with what I wanted.

Amen to that!

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… Beemon, yes having and following your passion or perceived path is yours to make and the reason you make it is yours alone … One can follow the narrow and embrace the calculated  Ayn Rand trilogy of existence or on the other hand embrace that which benefits the whole as well as the heart .. the choice is yours.  The years ahead are for you so store the car as best you can in a safe place, change & protect when and where necessary, plan well, when it is time maneuver to make your quest of a proper restoration a reality and have something to hold for your heritage you will know and be able to do so ,,, 

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