Pete in PA

My official 1936 D2 sedan resurrection thread

Recommended Posts

It seems the type 587 is a post war replacement for the 425 and the 428 used on the D2 and other models.

 

I have a 5409 to put on the Dodge; the original was a 5471. The only difference is that the base has the top mounting screw holes in different positions. The 5471 is as above; it has a screw at the middle of the boss on which the number is stamped. The 5409 is the same except there is a screw at each end of that boss and not in the middle, so the top is slightly rotated when fitted.

 

That top you show is a generic, with two possible inlet directions and three possible outlets. The original would have one in and one outlet, as on the one I posted. I don't know what direction they would point, though.

 

If that last photo is on the car, it doesn't appear to be a series B pump. The shape underneath is a different series, without the removable base (which originally had 855228 cast in it).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


The last photo is of the pump currently on the car and I figured it is the pump that came from the AC box.  Who knows?  Like I said I think the collection of pumps that came with the vehicle could tell a story.   
I *am* kind of surprised that the "original* pump is a hodgepodge of parts old and new.  I wonder where the original top part went?  As I've said before a lot can happen in 80 years.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pete an OEM will probability only have one in and out let .  The after market  units have multiples to adapt for various models . I have this extra 1935 date coded unit .  If it helps you , I will sell .

1270390349_FP2(800x450).jpg.77d94e7ac8c67246b3027ab1fc061917.jpg2021570706_FP3(450x800).jpg.873cae00481d0cae46d1c311a2180a90.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The 1521789 is a type 419. It takes the same arm as the type 425 and 428, so it would work on your D2. Note also the base is the same as the 5471, except for the arm - it has a screw above the middle of the stamped-number boss. I don't know how 855219 (the top) compares to yours; it may just be the one way valves. As you can see, Tom's pump has a domed outlet valve cover. Some had that dome cast into the top.

 

Well how about that. If you are feeling flush, here is one on ebay. This is a post war replacement part.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Made-In-The-USA-AC-Fuel-Pump-Type-428-Chrysler-DeSoto-Dodge-Plymouth-NOS-New/183951951737?epid=1723824934&hash=item2ad4640779:g:GiAAAOSwkDhdel2x&vxp=mtr

Edited by Spinneyhill (see edit history)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I never would have guessed that there would be so many different fuel pump numbers/variations.  This 6 cylinder flathead was in use for decades, right?  I guess Mopar had to changes something to keep the engineers busy.

To further complicate the issue I made the mistake of looking at my 36-42 parts catalog.  It seems that two different fuel pumps were used during D2 production.  Engines up to #41265 used fuel pump 653530 while engines from #41266 up used pump 659488. (Note that my 1935 parts book shows that all DUs used pump 637415 (and that was a new number for 1935) so the 653530 pump used on early D2s was not a carryover from 1935.) (Further, I see that all D5s and early D8s also used the late D2/659488 pump.)  Well the engine in my car, a November 1935 build, is 41226 so it originally had the 653530 pump.

As for what that means as far as inlet/outlet configuration (or any other specs) well I have absolutely no idea. <scream>

 

I can't even guess at how the fuel line into the pump was originally routed since that pipe is loose and rattling around under the radiator while the pump-to-carb line is a home made copper tubing piece.

 

It's not even noon and I really need a beer.

 

 

Edited by Pete in PA (see edit history)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So your car fits in the first part of the D2 run, so it would have had AC type 425, AC part number 1522237. AC don't give the engine number for the change. At least the type 428 works, though, if you can't find a 425 and not many would know the difference! Probably, from above, the stamped number will be the only thing to show the difference.

Edited by Spinneyhill (see edit history)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Any pictures in your books that show the engine? Any of them show the fuel pump? Here is one of a 1941 engine from allpar.com. The fuel pump looks to have a top like 855219 rather than the one on the new 1522995 one for sale on ebay.

1941Engine.thumb.jpg.3c5c88da245a9be24dd74e9a0b886f27.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll have to look at my books for pictures but from experience I learned that mfgrs will use a photo for years if they can.  I wouldn't trust a 1936 publication to accurately depict the 1936 situation if an early pic was close enough.

To further complicate the fuel pump issue I should mention that starting with the D5 in 1937 Dodge buyers could opt for a fuel pump fitted with the vacuum booster pump for better wiper operation.  There's a whole 'nother set of part numbers for those pumps.  At least I don't have to deal with that issue.  Course it *would* mean better wiper operation.  Not that I intend to do any intentional rainy weather driving with my D2.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello Pete,

 

Hope all is well and your auto tasks are treating you well!

 

You mentioned awhile back you have some 1936 Plymouth P1 parts, you wouldn't by chance have a good radiator. Just found out mine is completely plugged and cannot be fixed.

 

Cheers,

 

Todd

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Todd,

 

I did get an extra radiator when I bought my D2 and I'm sure it came from the same P1 that all the other P1 parts came from.  whether it's good or not I can't say and shipping it cross country to find out may not be the best idea.  I can tell you that it's heavy.  Also, I haven't yet determined if I can use the radiator to replace the leaking one in my D2.  Out of curiosity what's the p/n on your car's radiator?  It'll be embossed into the engine side of the top tank, RH side.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1936 Plymouth,

                    

                          If you are not too concerned with authenticity you may want to get a good radiator shop to replace the core with a modern tube type unit reusing your lower and upper tanks. The old honeycomb radiators cannot be rodded as there are no tubes. Even boiling may not open it up enough. Replacement honeycomb cores are available but at very high prices, if you can find anyone willing to do the work. You may find another original but who's to say it will be any better. Hope you find a solution.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello Pete,

 

     Thank you for getting back to me. The part number on my tank is #652892. I did take it to an "old school" radiator repair guy that does all sorts of radiator repair and he said it is clogged and "he" couldn't repair it. And yes, it does weigh a ton!

 

Thanks for the thoughts,

 

Oh, and I did find a guy in N.Y. that I bought a new water pump, thermostat and housing from and he said I could send the radiator to him and he would repair it, but like you said, send it across country for him to then say it'll cost $$$$$$$$ does not sound like something I want to do.

radiator.jpg

radiator II.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/8/2019 at 3:12 PM, jpage said:

1936 Plymouth,

                    

                          If you are not too concerned with authenticity you may want to get a good radiator shop to replace the core with a modern tube type unit reusing your lower and upper tanks. The old honeycomb radiators cannot be rodded as there are no tubes. Even boiling may not open it up enough. Replacement honeycomb cores are available but at very high prices, if you can find anyone willing to do the work. You may find another original but who's to say it will be any better. Hope you find a solution.

 

Hello J. Page,

      I appreciate any and all suggestive help!!! As perhaps disheartening it may sound to some, at this time I am not concerned with maintaining 100% authenticity. This in part comes from the fact there are already things on the auto that have been changed, upgraded and / or replaced, most noted is it has a 1955 motor in it now. I do / will keep the authentic "look" as best I can, however my intentions at this point is making it a reliable driver I can take to car show / events.

      The radiator guy I took the take to, to my understanding has knowledge of old radiator repair (i.e. rodding and boiling) and he said to find a new one. I even second questioned him by asking, couldn't you cut the top off and clean it out and solder it back on, to here he just said (again), "find a new one".

      Now, all that being said, the radiator look GOOD, no holes, smashed fins or upper or lower tank damage, I know it can be saved, I just have to find the right guy and one that doesn't want to charge me a cost that is equivalent of what I paid for the entire auto :-)

 

Cheers,

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I still have this 1935 DB radiator for sale if you need it....it may be adaptable to fit your car....

IMG_6084 (2).JPG

IMG_6083 (2).JPG

IMG_6081 (2).JPG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, 1936 Plymouth said:

 

Hello J. Page,

      I appreciate any and all suggestive help!!! As perhaps disheartening it may sound to some, at this time I am not concerned with maintaining 100% authenticity. This in part comes from the fact there are already things on the auto that have been changed, upgraded and / or replaced, most noted is it has a 1955 motor in it now. I do / will keep the authentic "look" as best I can, however my intentions at this point is making it a reliable driver I can take to car show / events.

      The radiator guy I took the take to, to my understanding has knowledge of old radiator repair (i.e. rodding and boiling) and he said to find a new one. I even second questioned him by asking, couldn't you cut the top off and clean it out and solder it back on, to here he just said (again), "find a new one".

      Now, all that being said, the radiator look GOOD, no holes, smashed fins or upper or lower tank damage, I know it can be saved, I just have to find the right guy and one that doesn't want to charge me a cost that is equivalent of what I paid for the entire auto :-)

 

Cheers,

To my knowledge, once those old honeycomb cores are clogged or damaged, they must be replaced. A new core could cost upwards of $1000 plus shipping .  If all you want is a good driver then I would just replace it with a modern core and that shouldn't be to difficult for a good radiator guy. Just have to use the old parts. I have an extra from my '36 Dodge and another has the top tank removed already. Both have good tanks and outlet tubes. The one with the tank off looks to be in the same shape as yours, no idea of the other.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's my post from another thread back in early September where the guy was looking for a radiator for his 1924 DB and I followed the suggestions.
 

"I was interested in this thread because my 36 Dodge is going to need some radiator work (or maybe a new radiator).  I called Harry Heitin iAuto and spoke with Scott, the longtime owner of that firm.  (He bought the business from Harry Heitin many years ago.)  He warned me that a honeycomb core radiator (Which I think my car has) would be very expensive because there's only one supplier of honeycomb cores and they're in the UK.  How expensive, I wondered.  Well Scott's best guess was $2500 for a completely restored radiator.  Yikes!  That's not gonna happen.

Scott cautioned me that a lot of imported copper/brass radiators have problems because inlet/outlet fittings are not swaged to the tanks.  IOW there's no good mechanical connection; the solder is the load bearing part and that doesn't last long.  Something else for me to worry about...

 

Because I browsed the Brassworks site and saw that I could get a new D2 radiator for about $900.  Wonder where that's made?  Time for more phone calls."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was at The Dodge Garage yesterday and looked at the spare radiator.  It is marked 652896M.  I don't have a 36 Plymouth parts manual but, based on my experience with D2 parts manuals, I probably wouldn't find that number anywhere in the manual even if it was originally installed in a 36 Plymouth.  Very frustrating!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In for the follow!  36 P2 owner here.  And your servant right, the Plymouth manual leaves a lot to be desired.  But if I can remember, I'll check for a radiator part number for you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now