maok

'28 Chrysler M Engine re-build

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The two sets of rods I have are slightly different with the oil hole sizes, the later (not being used) has the smaller oil holes, the other I am using (early) have a cone shaped entry to the hole, the holes are between 2mm to 2.5mm in diameter. I don't know if the babbitt bloke opened up the holes or not.

 

I am envious of your bearing babbitt work...ūüė≥

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Update on the crank and bearing clearances, I took the engine block, crank and rods back to my machinist and they did their magic  and now we have end play about 0.003" -0.004" end play, no binding of the crank with the bearings, and a happy Moe. Its tricky to install these pistons with rings from the inside of the block. Lucky this was a dummy up, I over tighten the piston pin bolt to 40ft-lb, should be 25-30ft-lb, to check how high the piston sticks oout of the cylinder and confirm the short timing chain turns over without issue.

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This chain and gear set seems to have a lot of slack but I have notice there is a half link that I will remove to see if it will be ok.

 

The other issuse that arised was the position of the oil filler tube on this older block, had my local engineer fabricate an attachment to the tube from the other engine. Now we can run the alternator again.

IMAG1579.jpg.cd3f9e8a3953bfee7c3195db052ecc8a.jpg

 

Slight engine mod, ported the inlet of the inlet manifold about 2 mm and took off the casting marks from the outlets. The reason for this is that Brisbane is sub-tropical and hot, I can really notice the difference from day and night driving. May or may not make a difference though.

IMAG1611.jpg.93d45f151e0569ab4ef327d9c050d3df.jpg

 

 

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On 1/14/2019 at 12:13 PM, maok said:

I can really notice the difference from day and night driving.

Volumetric efficiency changes with temperature. High temperature means lower density air (hot air expands) and hence less O2 per litre of air. Cold air has more O2 per litre and the engine runs better because of the improved VE. Altitude has the same effect: lower VE at higher altitude.

 

So if you improve the VE of the engine as you are, it will still have the day-night difference, with improvements in both day and night performance.

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1 hour ago, Spinneyhill said:

Volumetric efficiency changes with temperature. High temperature means lower density air (hot air expands) and hence less O2 per litre of air. Cold air has more O2 per litre and the engine runs better because of the improved VE. Altitude has the same effect: lower VE at higher altitude.

 

So if you improve the VE of the engine as you are, it will still have the day-night difference, with improvements in both day and night performance.

 

Yes, totally agree Spinney. I am hoping it will make enough difference to improve day time performance.

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I am back at it after a delay waiting for two broken oil rings to arrive from the supplier. These are one piece and extremely fragile, snaps so easily.

 

The felts into the rear main cap, is it suppose to be tight 'compressed' fit when torqued down, with or without some over hang?  Or a 'just' fit, with or without over hang?

IMAG1650.thumb.jpg.5b3746f6d616bbf7ce49950895842e6e.jpgIMAG1649.thumb.jpg.ae6d1bcba3db954db60e0c43b05a1712.jpg

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When you don't have the right tool for the job, one just needs to dodgy it up.

IMAG1659.thumb.jpg.09e599aac007851a3c97e3bb8d88c513.jpgIMAG1658.thumb.jpg.1c85cdb37e226376c7c136e61c1b6ccb.jpg

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Progress is a good thing.

IMAG1671.thumb.jpg.41191868f04a3b54090950a3fc6b8de2.jpgIMAG1674.thumb.jpg.2ca67a9fe60256cf39625c1b4064ba64.jpgIMAG1673.thumb.jpg.6f4681568ae5476f86f08101c98064ec.jpg

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On 1/24/2019 at 11:28 AM, maok said:

 

The felts into the rear main cap, is it suppose to be tight 'compressed' fit when torqued down, with or without some over hang?  Or a 'just' fit, with or without over hang?

IMAG1650.thumb.jpg.5b3746f6d616bbf7ce49950895842e6e.jpgIMAG1649.thumb.jpg.ae6d1bcba3db954db60e0c43b05a1712.jpg

 

Anyone???

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I don't know.

 

But what goes onto the surface on the left? Can it crush the felt into the slot so there is no gap along side the felt? 

 

I would expect the one on the right to leak if you left it sticking out like that. Can you push it in? Will the cover that goes on there push it in? If not, trim it.

Edited by Spinneyhill (see edit history)

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Thanks spinney, I have no idea either.

 

The sump is bolted down over the main cap, so it will meet up with the gasket of the sump. IMO, it would  have made more sense to have the felt seal inside of the sump gasket.

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More progress today. Torqued down all the main crank caps (except the rear) and conrod caps, and inserted the split pins. Mains 50ft lb +/- 2. Conrod caps between 30 -35 ft lb.

IMAG1697.thumb.jpg.36b7e856fbc5be7657437a4978683fa2.jpg

 


Still need to make a decision on the rear main cap seal. Felt or cork???

IMAG1692.jpg.16ff140cc1aefab53b2aa686b66ab4e1.jpgIMAG1693.jpg.955de1fe46dd4ad7f012534e7abb9593.jpgIMAG1694.jpg.96a1fa6c4b5d4872631d5b3304652ddf.jpg

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And the new timing chain installed. You can just make out the dots lining up on both the gears.

IMAG1685.thumb.jpg.d0ed347bfecbbae3e35ea162539031be.jpg

 

NOTE: For future reference the above timing chain and gear set is from a 1929 series 65 Chrysler, not a series 62

Edited by maok (see edit history)
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15 hours ago, maok said:

NOTE: For future reference the above timing chain and gear set is from a 1929 series 65 Chrysler, not a series 62

Good score that the whole set fits. The chains are not interchangeable on their own. Neither are used anywhere else as far as I can see in the 1934 catalogue.

Edited by Spinneyhill (see edit history)
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Hi not sure if this helps or if my understanding of the position of the felts makes this info relevant.IMG_0836.thumb.PNG.10f59ae9d19bdedb619140ca8e093359.PNG

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8 hours ago, ipeeforward said:

Hi not sure if this helps or if my understanding of the position of the felts makes this info relevant.

 

Thanks for the diagram. If I am seeing the diagram correctly, it looks like the felts above are in the vertical position on the cap where as in my '28 its on the horizontal position.

What it does tell me, is that the felt needs to be packed in well. However, I am leaning towards the use of cork.

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Maok,

I'm assuming this picture is of the rear main bearing. On one half, probably the bottom half, I think there should be a deep spiral groove cut into the white metal, that assists in returning oil into the sump. The spiral is important and has to go in the right direction, or it will push the oil out of the motor.

 

Secondly, this  trough just above the white metal in the picture, is to catch any oil that escapes out the back of the engine. Make sure the drain hole in the bottom cap is cleaned out, so the oil can return to the sump.These drain holes often get plugged with poured white metal or machining bits and if it is not clear the oil will piss out the rear main.

 

The seal would originally have been felt that is tightly compressed into the groove. The Model A Ford uses felt packing and they say it should stick out about 1/8th of an inch on each side, so that it gets really compressed upon tightening.I would NOT recommend using cork as it is too easily compressed and may not seal properly.

 The design of this rear main is very similar to Model A ford, if the scroll is not there on your bearing, let us know and I will look out a Ford one and take a picture for you.

Viv. IMAG1692.jpg.16ff140cc1aefab53b2aa686b66ab4e1.jpg

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Hi Viv, yes that drain channel is definitely free of any blockage. The one that came out of the car was blocked to some degree.

 

Regarding the white metal/babbitt on the cap, I couldn't remember when I pulled the engine apart if there was a swirl like groove in the bearing. 

 

Here are both the rear main caps out of this engine (left) and the one that was in the car(right). No swirl groove on either. Now, I don't know if these are correct though.

IMG_3946.JPG.b4a3305f6e9cc923dc8d240c4166d5cb.JPG.54961b7d4e6471355adf1966d2a1d6fc.JPGIMAG1700.jpg.e2ea8154390296659d396392587af83a.jpg

 

They both have the two drain channels at the rear of the cap for excess oil to go down the oil return of the cap. Below is the poured babbitt.

 

IMAG1366.thumb.jpg.31470beb847b6ad632a4bbbfd1267d40.jpg

 

Thanks for the advice on the felt seal. My concern is that some of the felt may get trapped between the mating surfaces of the cap and block and hence cause issue with the clearance. The felt that I have did not come with the gasket kit, I made it from a very dense felt from a haberdashery store. The felt is very difficult to cut to shape. Where as the cork is easily shaped.

 

Edited by maok
spelling (see edit history)

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I am having second thoughts on the conrod stud nuts at 30-35ft lb, they are only a 3/8" stud and nut though. Should I go to 40-45ft lb?

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On 1/31/2019 at 9:58 PM, maok said:

More progress today. Torqued down all the main crank caps (except the rear) and conrod caps, and inserted the split pins. Mains 50ft lb +/- 2. Conrod caps between 30 -35 ft lb.

IMAG1697.thumb.jpg.36b7e856fbc5be7657437a4978683fa2.jpg

 


Still need to make a decision on the rear main cap seal. Felt or cork???

IMAG1692.jpg.16ff140cc1aefab53b2aa686b66ab4e1.jpgIMAG1693.jpg.955de1fe46dd4ad7f012534e7abb9593.jpgIMAG1694.jpg.96a1fa6c4b5d4872631d5b3304652ddf.jpg

Cork, with a thin layer of clear RTV .

 

Herm.

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You must have read my mind Herm, that is exactly what I did, black high temp RTV though. I think more RTV is required in this area when I install the sump.

IMAG1715.thumb.jpg.c74bb0b09b94f823d73163f20b08fbcd.jpg

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23 hours ago, maok said:

I am having second thoughts on the conrod stud nuts at 30-35ft lb, they are only a 3/8" stud and nut though. Should I go to 40-45ft lb?

Do NOT go over 40 Pounds, on a 3/8's fine thread bolt. 35# is good. start at 30#, and then pull for the pin hole.

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I did a test yesterday with an spare rod bolt and nut, the threads started giving way at about 45ftlb. So I have stuck with what I did earlier, 30-35ftlb.

Edited by maok
grammar (see edit history)

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On 1/31/2019 at 9:58 PM, maok said:

More progress today. Torqued down all the main crank caps (except the rear) and conrod caps, and inserted the split pins. Mains 50ft lb +/- 2. Conrod caps between 30 -35 ft lb.

IMAG1697.thumb.jpg.36b7e856fbc5be7657437a4978683fa2.jpg

 


Still need to make a decision on the rear main cap seal. Felt or cork???

IMAG1692.jpg.16ff140cc1aefab53b2aa686b66ab4e1.jpgIMAG1693.jpg.955de1fe46dd4ad7f012534e7abb9593.jpgIMAG1694.jpg.96a1fa6c4b5d4872631d5b3304652ddf.jpg

Cotter pins have to be tight, as heavy oil splash can loosen them, and take them out. Also use the size of pin that the bolt holes have in them. If the holes do not line up with the nuts, drill with the size of bit, and open a clean path for the pin. While drilling, use a shop vac. to catch any drill chips. It works like a charm.

Also, do not for get to check your Rods for alignment, twist, bend, and off set!

 

Herm.

Dave's Model A from Lincoln, Ne 056.jpg

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Thanks for the advice Herm. My split pins are not quite the same size as the hole but what I did was to make sure the nut was tight against it on the anti clockwise side, ie if the nut tries to loosen , its pressed against the pin. I see you have cut the pins to be short as possible.

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Installed the oil pump today. Packed some Vaseline into it and made sure the slot for the distributor was align correctly at TDC. The slot needs to be parallel to the engine line when #1 piston is at TDC on the firing stroke. This aligns the distributor rotor at about 2pm on the cap which is the #1 spark plug.

 

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Looking at the cutaway diagram in the manual, it looks like priming the oil galleries with oil wont be much of an issue. Middle pointer of #19 is the outlet for the oil pressure gauge and oil filter tubes, if I pour oil down here it should reach most of the galleries including the oil pump outlet tube. That's my theory anyway.

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Also made a dodgy TDC marker.

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Edited by maok (see edit history)
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