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'28 Chrysler M Engine re-build


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On 1/24/2019 at 11:28 AM, maok said:

 

The felts into the rear main cap, is it suppose to be tight 'compressed' fit when torqued down, with or without some over hang?  Or a 'just' fit, with or without over hang?

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Anyone???

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I don't know.

 

But what goes onto the surface on the left? Can it crush the felt into the slot so there is no gap along side the felt? 

 

I would expect the one on the right to leak if you left it sticking out like that. Can you push it in? Will the cover that goes on there push it in? If not, trim it.

Edited by Spinneyhill (see edit history)
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Thanks spinney, I have no idea either.

 

The sump is bolted down over the main cap, so it will meet up with the gasket of the sump. IMO, it would  have made more sense to have the felt seal inside of the sump gasket.

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More progress today. Torqued down all the main crank caps (except the rear) and conrod caps, and inserted the split pins. Mains 50ft lb +/- 2. Conrod caps between 30 -35 ft lb.

IMAG1697.thumb.jpg.36b7e856fbc5be7657437a4978683fa2.jpg

 


Still need to make a decision on the rear main cap seal. Felt or cork???

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15 hours ago, maok said:

NOTE: For future reference the above timing chain and gear set is from a 1929 series 65 Chrysler, not a series 62

Good score that the whole set fits. The chains are not interchangeable on their own. Neither are used anywhere else as far as I can see in the 1934 catalogue.

Edited by Spinneyhill (see edit history)
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8 hours ago, ipeeforward said:

Hi not sure if this helps or if my understanding of the position of the felts makes this info relevant.

 

Thanks for the diagram. If I am seeing the diagram correctly, it looks like the felts above are in the vertical position on the cap where as in my '28 its on the horizontal position.

What it does tell me, is that the felt needs to be packed in well. However, I am leaning towards the use of cork.

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Maok,

I'm assuming this picture is of the rear main bearing. On one half, probably the bottom half, I think there should be a deep spiral groove cut into the white metal, that assists in returning oil into the sump. The spiral is important and has to go in the right direction, or it will push the oil out of the motor.

 

Secondly, this  trough just above the white metal in the picture, is to catch any oil that escapes out the back of the engine. Make sure the drain hole in the bottom cap is cleaned out, so the oil can return to the sump.These drain holes often get plugged with poured white metal or machining bits and if it is not clear the oil will piss out the rear main.

 

The seal would originally have been felt that is tightly compressed into the groove. The Model A Ford uses felt packing and they say it should stick out about 1/8th of an inch on each side, so that it gets really compressed upon tightening.I would NOT recommend using cork as it is too easily compressed and may not seal properly.

 The design of this rear main is very similar to Model A ford, if the scroll is not there on your bearing, let us know and I will look out a Ford one and take a picture for you.

Viv. IMAG1692.jpg.16ff140cc1aefab53b2aa686b66ab4e1.jpg

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Hi Viv, yes that drain channel is definitely free of any blockage. The one that came out of the car was blocked to some degree.

 

Regarding the white metal/babbitt on the cap, I couldn't remember when I pulled the engine apart if there was a swirl like groove in the bearing. 

 

Here are both the rear main caps out of this engine (left) and the one that was in the car(right). No swirl groove on either. Now, I don't know if these are correct though.

IMG_3946.JPG.b4a3305f6e9cc923dc8d240c4166d5cb.JPG.54961b7d4e6471355adf1966d2a1d6fc.JPGIMAG1700.jpg.e2ea8154390296659d396392587af83a.jpg

 

They both have the two drain channels at the rear of the cap for excess oil to go down the oil return of the cap. Below is the poured babbitt.

 

IMAG1366.thumb.jpg.31470beb847b6ad632a4bbbfd1267d40.jpg

 

Thanks for the advice on the felt seal. My concern is that some of the felt may get trapped between the mating surfaces of the cap and block and hence cause issue with the clearance. The felt that I have did not come with the gasket kit, I made it from a very dense felt from a haberdashery store. The felt is very difficult to cut to shape. Where as the cork is easily shaped.

 

Edited by maok
spelling (see edit history)
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On 1/31/2019 at 9:58 PM, maok said:

More progress today. Torqued down all the main crank caps (except the rear) and conrod caps, and inserted the split pins. Mains 50ft lb +/- 2. Conrod caps between 30 -35 ft lb.

IMAG1697.thumb.jpg.36b7e856fbc5be7657437a4978683fa2.jpg

 


Still need to make a decision on the rear main cap seal. Felt or cork???

IMAG1692.jpg.16ff140cc1aefab53b2aa686b66ab4e1.jpgIMAG1693.jpg.955de1fe46dd4ad7f012534e7abb9593.jpgIMAG1694.jpg.96a1fa6c4b5d4872631d5b3304652ddf.jpg

Cork, with a thin layer of clear RTV .

 

Herm.

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23 hours ago, maok said:

I am having second thoughts on the conrod stud nuts at 30-35ft lb, they are only a 3/8" stud and nut though. Should I go to 40-45ft lb?

Do NOT go over 40 Pounds, on a 3/8's fine thread bolt. 35# is good. start at 30#, and then pull for the pin hole.

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On 1/31/2019 at 9:58 PM, maok said:

More progress today. Torqued down all the main crank caps (except the rear) and conrod caps, and inserted the split pins. Mains 50ft lb +/- 2. Conrod caps between 30 -35 ft lb.

IMAG1697.thumb.jpg.36b7e856fbc5be7657437a4978683fa2.jpg

 


Still need to make a decision on the rear main cap seal. Felt or cork???

IMAG1692.jpg.16ff140cc1aefab53b2aa686b66ab4e1.jpgIMAG1693.jpg.955de1fe46dd4ad7f012534e7abb9593.jpgIMAG1694.jpg.96a1fa6c4b5d4872631d5b3304652ddf.jpg

Cotter pins have to be tight, as heavy oil splash can loosen them, and take them out. Also use the size of pin that the bolt holes have in them. If the holes do not line up with the nuts, drill with the size of bit, and open a clean path for the pin. While drilling, use a shop vac. to catch any drill chips. It works like a charm.

Also, do not for get to check your Rods for alignment, twist, bend, and off set!

 

Herm.

Dave's Model A from Lincoln, Ne 056.jpg

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Thanks for the advice Herm. My split pins are not quite the same size as the hole but what I did was to make sure the nut was tight against it on the anti clockwise side, ie if the nut tries to loosen , its pressed against the pin. I see you have cut the pins to be short as possible.

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Installed the oil pump today. Packed some Vaseline into it and made sure the slot for the distributor was align correctly at TDC. The slot needs to be parallel to the engine line when #1 piston is at TDC on the firing stroke. This aligns the distributor rotor at about 2pm on the cap which is the #1 spark plug.

 

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Looking at the cutaway diagram in the manual, it looks like priming the oil galleries with oil wont be much of an issue. Middle pointer of #19 is the outlet for the oil pressure gauge and oil filter tubes, if I pour oil down here it should reach most of the galleries including the oil pump outlet tube. That's my theory anyway.

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Also made a dodgy TDC marker.

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Edited by maok (see edit history)
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This the outlet for the oil pressure gauge (without the line) and the oil filter,  my car didn't have a filter fitted, so this line has been diverted to the sump inlet. Surely this is not correct, this would relieve the oil pressure in the main gallery?

 

IMAG1725.jpg.b964340bf1bf291e4918661759ff8e0f.jpg

Edited by maok
grammar (see edit history)
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Looks like you making good progress there maok, that sump inlet is simply that a "sump inlet" it delivers the filtered oil back to the sump and not to the main gallery. the main gallery in feed through the system in line with the oil outlet fitting thus giving to the oil pressure being delivered to the main gallery. WOW you have an oil filter now very modern of you. Cheers mate!   

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Haven't got the oil filter yet!!!!  Damn VPW.

 

This is how it was in the engine from my car, which makes no sense. No wonder why my oil pressure was always at about 10psi when engine oil was hot.

 

 

IMAG1736.thumb.jpg.efe6bfbe5d8f68d6b6f1b54e90114a80.jpg

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The pistons and rings are JP pistons from Adelaide, however, it's cheaper to buy them via Autospurlus in Melbourne, not direct. They cost about $900au IIRC.

 

I don't know where the machinist got the valves, probably Autospurlus as well.

 

 

Edited by maok (see edit history)
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After a couple set backs, all my doing, its ready to go back in. 

 

The head gasket is yet to be torqued down, which I will do when its in the engine bay.

Now the big question, to spray or not to spray the head gasket?

 

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Pulled out the input shaft on the spare gearbox to align the clutch plate.

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And my dodgy generator capping. I may even turn the carby around to be able to install an air cleaner.

IMAG1769.jpg.dbf12389bba2735ebd117d514fe50f48.jpg

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Murphy's law is universal, it always seems to apply to a distributor. 180 degree out, when one hears back fire from the carb and tail pipe.

 

Well she started with lots of drama, water jacket bolts needed tightening some more, water was going everywhere. But glad to report that was no screaming and yelling from the engine. 

WoW! How quiet it is to the previous engine. No oil leaks yet, all fingers crossed.

 

However, my rattling noise is still there....😯 I can feel it via the clutch pedal and the gear stick. I thought it may have been the speedo cable drive at the gearbox end  but no luck.

I suspect it maybe the tail/drive shaft joints - Ball and Trunion. The rattle is not there when I accelerate but is there when I back off or  at constant speed. I had the real wheels off the floor and it would only make the rattle when in 3rd gear backing off.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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There is some play but nothing too serious.

 

Here are pics of the joints. One of the caps is a little loose over the ball section, otherwise they look good. The two springs are not originals. There was plenty of grease pack in there, probably too much.

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The more I think about it, the issue probably is in the gearbox. I am going to do one more test today, see if the rattle is apparent when I put the gearbox into neutral when I back off the power.

Edited by maok (see edit history)
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Thanks @Grimy.

 

Drum roll..................................

 

Drive shaft had worn inside the pockets of the balls. When I inspected the drive shaft initially, the balls looked GREAT! However, neglected to look inside the cups, which are worn badly. Why do they make the balls from hardened steal and the cups from mild steal? It surely is easier to replace the balls than the cups.

 

New modern drive shaft (almost a hotrod now) and she is less rattly, I can hear the coins rattling in my pockets...lol

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8 hours ago, maok said:

I can hear the coins rattling in my pockets.

I suppose the coins rattling/jingling in your pockets is because there is no longer the sound of crisp bills from your wallet....  🙂

 

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