Stearns Knight

[edinmass]

Steve, I sent it several times. It won’t go through. I don’t want to start a YouTube account. 

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Yeah will have to wait to see it at some point.  AJ could take it to the Belltown stationary engine show in April next year.  Those guys would love something like that more than the actual car.

 

An aside, but the best local shows were when the backround noise were the usual handfull of hit or miss engines popping away, when loud music took over things began a long steady slide..

Edited May 11, 2020 by Steve_Mack_CT (see edit history)

[edinmass]

Steve, I made a crate for it, just so it could be brought to shows.........but the thing is rather difficult to move. It's much larger than it looks in the photos, and is very heavy. 

[alsancle]

Hence the need for a flunky with a big trailer.   Where could I find one of those...

[Steve_Mack_CT]

11 hours ago, alsancle said:

Hence the need for a flunky with a big trailer.   Where could I find one of those...

I hear they are really, really expensive these days!! 😁

[alsancle]

13 hours ago, Steve_Mack_CT said:

I hear they are really, really expensive these days!! 😁

 

Steve,  note that Ed is complaining that it is hard to move.  That is just because he had to hand truck it 300 yards down a dirt road to get it in the trailer.    I can't wait until he has to hand truck it 1/2 a mile from the trailer lot to the show field.

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Just use the appropriate marketing slogan and tell him his joints will improve with mileage...

[John_Mereness]

On 5/11/2020 at 2:22 AM, edinmass said:

Steve, I sent it several times. It won’t go through. I don’t want to start a YouTube account. 

Pleased to give it a try - I have an account and to some degree use it. 

[John_Mereness]

Edited May 12, 2020 by John_Mereness (see edit history)

[John_Mereness]

https://bilwebauctions.se/en/sommarauktion-samlarbilar/stearns-knight-j-limousine-slidmotor-665

 

 

Edited May 12, 2020 by John_Mereness (see edit history)

[John_Mereness]

[John_Mereness]

1928 International Motor Show in Berlin

Edited May 12, 2020 by John_Mereness (see edit history)

[Peterwoyen]

4 minutes ago, John_Mereness said:

https://bilwebauctions.se/en/sommarauktion-samlarbilar/stearns-knight-j-limousine-slidmotor-665

 

 

 

[Peterwoyen]

Appears to be a Stearns Model M or N.  Same platform as the W-K Great 6 

[John_Mereness]

[John_Mereness]

[John_Mereness]

 

 

This is part of a collection of negatives by Christopher Helin. He was the photographer and automotive editor of the San Francisco Examiner from 1915 to 1935.

 

 

[John_Mereness]

n movie land. At the Lasky Studios, Agnes Ayres finds the Stearns Knight a good location to do her business from.

Edited May 12, 2020 by John_Mereness (see edit history)

[John_Mereness]

[Ivan Saxton]

4 hours ago, John_Mereness said:

1928 International Motor Show in Berlin

The signage might be plausible, maybe if it had been a 1914 show.  Jack Nelson had a 1914 sleeve valve Mercedes knight touring for years,  and I remember seeing it on the occasion of a Victorian  Veteran Car Club Annual November Rally in Melbourne, on one occasion during the 1960s. It was a well conserved original car.   Mostly jack would use a similar size poppet valve Mercedes of about the same size and age.  Both had similar V-front radiators.  Another VCCA member,  Mackenzie Luckie,  bought the sleeve-valve car from Jack, and also used it for car events.  Mac is long gone; and I understand his nephews have his cars and interests.        Jack obviously had a camera with very fine optics.   A few years ago he loaned me a few interesting photos of about 2-3 inch dimensions. My youngest son Stirling scanned and digitized these;  and I returned the originals to Jack with prints about 10 inch size.  Jack had become fairly elderly, and he enjoyed being able to see the fine detail of his own photos from the 1940s.   One is of the Semmering Mercedes at Rob Roy Hill Climb with normal road registration.

[edinmass]

On 5/11/2020 at 9:13 AM, alsancle said:

Hence the need for a flunky with a big trailer.   Where could I find one of those...

 

 

I can be your flunky........if your man enough to steal me away from my current gig. Go ahead....make my day. Then I'll have to call you Mr. AJ.

[alsancle]

A note from the Deluxe Stearns Knight Salesman's data book Page 18:

 

The radiator shell is one inch deeper and a plain 4 5/8" radiator cap is now used, providing distinctive effect with out any embellishment by emblem or motormeter.

[alsancle]

A better note:

 

With the expiration of the American patent for sleeve valves in 1932,  we expect an explosion in sleeve valve engine manufacturing and use.

Edited May 13, 2020 by alsancle (see edit history)

[edinmass]

52 minutes ago, alsancle said:

A better note:

 

With the expiration of the American patent for sleeve valves expiring in 1932,  we expect an explosion in sleeve valve engine manufacturing and use.

 

I assume this was not Nostradamus?

[John_Mereness]

18 hours ago, alsancle said:

A better note:

 

With the expiration of the American patent for sleeve valves in 1932,  we expect an explosion in sleeve valve engine manufacturing and use.

A downward spiraling explosion to oblivion, but nevertheless an explosion. 

[Peterwoyen]

30 minutes ago, John_Mereness said:

A downward spiraling explosion to oblivion, but nevertheless an explosion. 

I agree with the thought that between the cost of casting and machining sleeves and the better metallurgy of valve trains in the 1930's it rendered the sleeve valve system as obsolete.  The sleeve valve system was formidable in an era of constant valve grinding and decarboning valves.  It went the way of steam power and at the time electric.     

[58L-Y8]

21 hours ago, alsancle said:

A better note:

 

With the expiration of the American patent for sleeve valves in 1932,  we expect an explosion in sleeve valve engine manufacturing and use.

What an ironic prediction!  Whimpering into oblivion with the end of the '33 Willys-Knight 66E is more like it.

[edinmass]

OK......Stearns Knight diatribe Number two.......after spending some additional time with the car.

 

 

UPDATE: I service, restore, and dial in some of the best stuff on the planet......At least as far as what floats my boat. I have driven 95 percent of every American platform/chassis certified as a CCCA car. And probably 70 percent of the foreign CCCA cars. I have also serviced a ridiculous amount of the big brass stuff. White Steamers, Chadwick, 90 HP Napier, Pierce 66, Crane, Simplex, if its cool, I have tried to get my hands on it. My point; there are only a few Brass and CCCA platforms that interest me to actually own. Yes, I confess.............I’m a car snob........through and through. But also remember besides the crazy cool stuff I have in the garage, I have a very nice Ford T. Collector cars serve many different purposes, and I can have just as much fun in a 15k Ford, 150k Packard, or a asinine expensive big boy toy. I try and find stuff that is unique, affordable for the working man, better than average driver, and is mechanically interesting. That limits me to a very few brands of automobile for me to own personally.  With all the aforementioned said, I will now add one more car to my “acceptable to have as a keeper” to my list. Much to my surprise, it’s a Stearns-Knight 8-90 series car. 
 

The S-K offers lots of strange, weird, and unusual characteristics that give it my exceptionally difficult approval. Working on AJ’s new money hole..........excuse me, new car, has been very surprising and rewarding. It’s a s strange and eccentric as Al.......but unlike Al, it’s in a good way!🤔 

 

The car just keeps getting more and more interesting as I dig into it. A Gemmer steering box that could steer the Titanic, designed well, and functions even better. The brakes are typical high end Bendix triple shoe as offered on Pierce, And many other high end cars in the late 20’s. Suspension is similar to Packard/Stutz/Pierce/ect. Rear end is a Timken worm drive like Stutz/Pierce/Nash, ect. The transmission is the best pre 1930 unit I have EVER used. Makes the 29:Pierce transmission look like it came out of a Chinese junk tractor from before WWI. Most of the electrics are high end Delco. The hardware is all Turndset or the New York firms that made hardware for LaBaron, Brunn, And such others. Dash gauges are high end Stewart Warner. So, over all the chassis is well done, overbuilt, and the same technology as all the other great cars of the 1928-1929 model years. Frame looks like a Model J Duesenberg.........or a three ton dump truck.

 

That just leaves the engine. Currently the car has been basically a museum piece. It runs and drives, but needs 100 hours and 10k in goodies to get it to “well sorted and a proper motor car”. That said, impressions of a Knight Eight............impressive. Large displacement, smooth, powerful....even with rather high mileage. The gearing on this car is to the moon. It will easily reach 100mph.........and there very, very few cars from 28-29 that could even dream of pulling off the century number. Currently the car has an incorrect earlier carb......so it’s a bit of a challenge to get it started, once figured out it isn’t too bad. Seems to run lean at idle and tip in throttle.......again it’s the primitive 1925 carburetor. Spin it up a few revs, and the car comes alive. It’s not happy going less than 35 mph. Finds its grove at 48-49, and wants to run at 60 mph For a sweet spot in high gear. Fit and finish are typical of a one off prototype. Lots of little nagging things that could be resolved with removing the Interior, if you dare chance it with all the 90 year  old upholstery. Simply said, the car surprised me for its era..........it’s large, powerful, torquey, and overall very fast......like a Speed Six Bentley fast......but more of a slug at the lower end than a W.O. product......but with better carburetion it should improve markedly. Also, it has a very early fuel pump.....a nice improvement of the pain in the ass vacuum tanks. Shockingly, I would own a Stearns-Knight eight...........didn’t think I would ever add another “ok to have in my permanent collection” platform. I look forward to sorting the car, and then dissembling the engine..........so, what do you say AJ, send me a check for the engine job and I’ll tear it down tomorrow. Just want to see what makes it tick. The car has achieved my very seldom offered three thumbs up. 👍👍👍

 

 

Edited May 14, 2020 by edinmass (see edit history)

[mike brady]

Ed

 

Is the correct carburetor available ?

[Matt Harwood]

Did you call Autozone for the carb? Probably a core charge, though.

[alsancle]

56 minutes ago, mike brady said:

Ed

 

Is the correct carburetor available ?

Mike, it came with a UU2 in a box, but Ed and I are thinking UUR2.

Edited May 15, 2020 by alsancle (see edit history)

[pughs]

This is correct (original equipment) carburetor.

 

[edinmass]

2 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

Did you call Autozone for the carb? Probably a core charge, though.

 

 

I checked today, we have nine of them on the shelf.........they fit Pierce Arrow also.......😎

Edited May 15, 2020 by edinmass (see edit history)

[carbking]

Ed - just what is the correct carburetor?

 

Al alluded to a Stromberg UU-2, possibly a UUR-2 both of which are two-barrel carbs.

 

The Stromberg documentation shows the early carb was a M-4 (single barrel) which was superseded in 1926~27 with the OT-4 (also a single barrel).

 

There is no record in the existing Stromberg files showing any 2-barrel sold either to Stearns-Knight or aftermarket for Stearns-Knight.

 

Jon.

Edited May 15, 2020 by carbking (see edit history)

[alsancle]

5 minutes ago, carbking said:

Ed - just what is the correct carburetor?

 

Al alluded to a Stromberg UU-2, possibly a UUR-2 both of which are two-barrel carbs.

 

The Stromberg documentation shows the early carb was a M-4 (single barrel) which was superseded in 1926~27 with the OT-4 (also a single barrel).

 

Jon.

 

 

From the beginning of 8-90 production in 1928 to then end in 1929 there were constant running changes.  Some of the changes include:

 

1.  single to dual barrel inake

2.  skinner oiler rectifier added

3.  sleeve port sizes

4.  sleeve port oil channels,

5.  Radiator shutters

 

Duane Perrin's J8-90 is the highest known serial number and has all of the updates,  including the shutters (and 2" inch longer hood to accommodate).   The HP rating went up along the way from 100 to 112, to 120.

 

The car Eddy is messing with is later with a number of the updates,  but not the radiator shutters.

 

[Peterwoyen]

12 hours ago, pughs said:

This is correct (original equipment) carburetor.

 

Tillotson, and difficult to deal with pot metal.  

[alsancle]

17 minutes ago, Peterwoyen said:

Tillotson, and difficult to deal with pot metal.  

Peter,  what are you running?

[Peterwoyen]

14 hours ago, edinmass said:

OK......Stearns Knight diatribe Number two.......after spending some additional time with the car.

 

 

UPDATE: I service, restore, and dial in some of the best stuff on the planet......At least as far as what floats my boat. I have driven 95 percent of every American platform/chassis certified as a CCCA car. And probably 70 percent of the foreign CCCA cars. I have also serviced a ridiculous amount of the big brass stuff. White Steamers, Chadwick, 90 HP Napier, Pierce 66, Crane, Simplex, if its cool, I have tried to get my hands on it. My point; there are only a few Brass and CCCA platforms that interest me to actually own. Yes, I confess.............I’m a car snob........through and through. But also remember besides the crazy cool stuff I have in the garage, I have a very nice Ford T. Collector cars serve many different purposes, and I can have just as much fun in a 15k Ford, 150k Packard, or a asinine expensive big boy toy. I try and find stuff that is unique, affordable for the working man, better than average driver, and is mechanically interesting. That limits me to a very few brands of automobile for me to own personally.  With all the aforementioned said, I will now add one more car to my “acceptable to have as a keeper” to my list. Much to my surprise, it’s a Stearns-Knight 8-90 series car. 
 

The S-K offers lots of strange, weird, and unusual characteristics that give it my exceptionally difficult approval. Working on AJ’s new money hole..........excuse me, new car, has been very surprising and rewarding. It’s a s strange and eccentric as Al.......but unlike Al, it’s in a good way!🤔 

 

The car just keeps getting more and more interesting as I dig into it. A Gemmer steering box that could steer the Titanic, designed well, and functions even better. The brakes are typical high end Bendix triple shoe as offered on Pierce, And many other high end cars in the late 20’s. Suspension is similar to Packard/Stutz/Pierce/ect. Rear end is a Timken worm drive like Stutz/Pierce/Nash, ect. The transmission is the best pre 1930 unit I have EVER used. Makes the 29:Pierce transmission look like it came out of a Chinese junk tractor from before WWI. Most of the electrics are high end Delco. The hardware is all Turndset or the New York firms that made hardware for LaBaron, Brunn, And such others. Dash gauges are high end Stewart Warner. So, over all the chassis is well done, overbuilt, and the same technology as all the other great cars of the 1928-1929 model years. Frame looks like a Model J Duesenberg.........or a three ton dump truck.

 

That just leaves the engine. Currently the car has been basically a museum piece. It runs and drives, but needs 100 hours and 10k in goodies to get it to “well sorted and a proper motor car”. That said, impressions of a Knight Eight............impressive. Large displacement, smooth, powerful....even with rather high mileage. The gearing on this car is to the moon. It will easily reach 100mph.........and there very, very few cars from 28-29 that could even dream of pulling off the century number. Currently the car has an incorrect earlier carb......so it’s a bit of a challenge to get it started, once figured out it isn’t too bad. Seems to run lean at idle and tip in throttle.......again it’s the primitive 1925 carburetor. Spin it up a few revs, and the car comes alive. It’s not happy going less than 35 mph. Finds its grove at 48-49, and wants to run at 60 mph For a sweet spot in high gear. Fit and finish are typical of a one off prototype. Lots of little nagging things that could be resolved with removing the Interior, if you dare chance it with all the 90 year  old upholstery. Simply said, the car surprised me for its era..........it’s large, powerful, torquey, and overall very fast......like a Speed Six Bentley fast......but more of a slug at the lower end than a W.O. product......but with better carburetion it should improve markedly. Also, it has a very early fuel pump.....a nice improvement of the pain in the ass vacuum tanks. Shockingly, I would own a Stearns-Knight eight...........didn’t think I would ever add another “ok to have in my permanent collection” platform. I look forward to sorting the car, and then dissembling the engine..........so, what do you say AJ, send me a check for the engine job and I’ll tear it down tomorrow. Just want to see what makes it tick. The car has achieved my very seldom offered three thumbs up. 👍👍👍

 

 

I love hearing your impressions of the car!  It affirms the things that Art Aseltine claimed over the years.  I don't know that the Classic Car world ever took his claims seriously.  Because of such low production numbers and lack of remaining cars few people have experienced them.  You've given me a much needed dose of enthusiasm to get ours finished.  I really am curious to know what rear end gear ratio is in that car?  

  

[Peterwoyen]

Just now, alsancle said:

Peter,  what are you running?

Really the jury is still out but we have a couple of Carter BB1's that we planned to use for most running.  We are open to suggestions.  Early on we had purchased some brass bodied single barrel carbs but we are passing on using them.  Like Ed's comments they are archaic and lack accelerator pumps etc.    

[carbking]

Peter - the largest BB-1 is too small for that engine (assuming you have the same size engine as Al/Ed).

 

Al - do any parts books exist that might list the appropriate 2-barrel?

 

EDIT: just for the record, the first Stromberg UU-2 (truck) was released 6 September 1928, and (passenger) 1 Nov 1928.

The first UUR-2 was released 9 June 1930.

 

Jon

Edited May 15, 2020 by carbking (see edit history)