Stearns Knight

[Terry Harper]

1 hour ago, edinmass said:

And the answer is......YUP! Taken at his house about 16 months ago.......

 

Love it! Just perfect.

[alsancle]

9 hours ago, Terry Harper said:

Love it! Just perfect.

 

There is something very appealing about an original paint, original condition car.   Hopefully the new owner can get it running fairly easily.

[edinmass]

8 minutes ago, alsancle said:

 

There is something very appealing about an original paint, original condition car.   Hopefully the new owner can get it running fairly easily.

 

Stearns Knight and easy never should appear in the same sentence, paragraph, or even s the same page. 

[alsancle]

4 minutes ago, edinmass said:

 

Stearns Knight and easy never should appear in the same sentence, paragraph, or even s the same page. 

 

You need to learn to market better.

[edinmass]

Just now, alsancle said:

 

You need to learn to market better.

 

Im buying, not selling.......😎

[alsancle]

3 minutes ago, edinmass said:

 

Im buying, not selling.......😎

 

I know where you can find a nice running one.

[58L-Y8]

Here's a more legible copy of the Hartford Courant article:

[edinmass]

I have only had the 29 Brunn up to 70mph so far.......maybe next week we will try a speed run! 

[alsancle]

Got a care package from Mark with some great stuff in it.  Here are some pictures from 1956 of the Brunn when Art first bought it.

 

 

[alsancle]

A couple more from Mark circa 1956.

[alsancle]

Mark,  is your car a 12?   I thought it might be.

 

 

[edinmass]

Wow….those terrible mirrors were on that thing early! That was before the Lincoln white walls, orange wheels, and painted Firestone snap rings……….something tells me I have driven it more than anyone else since 1956. Sucker runs like the wind……..in January we will get back to sorting it across the finish line. Started it yesterday…….fired right up and still no smoke.

[jcrow]

Just for accuracy...... that is a Stearns, not a Stearns Knight.

 

Johnny

[alsancle]

13 hours ago, jcrow said:

Just for accuracy...... that is a Stearns, not a Stearns Knight.

 

Johnny

 

Johnny,  do you mean the newspaper article?

[jcrow]

Yes

[Peterwoyen]

On 11/28/2021 at 7:07 AM, alsancle said:

 

Johnny,  do you mean the newspaper article?

Its a 1912 Stearns-Knight.  The first year for the Knight sleeve valve engine in a Stearns.  

 

On 11/27/2021 at 5:54 PM, jcrow said:

Just for accuracy...... that is a Stearns, not a Stearns Knight.

 

Johnny

1912 was the first year Stearns used the Knight sleeve valve engine.  Its a 1912 Stearns-Knight

[prewarnut]

On 11/25/2021 at 1:45 PM, 58L-Y8 said:

Here's a more legible copy of the Hartford Courant article:

 

 

Thanks for posting the article. I didn't know there was a V12 Knight until reading it. From the web... 

 

 

This would require another thread (don't want to hijack).

[jcrow]

Al,

That may be, but this car is not Knight powered. Probably incorrect year

in the newspaper. It is shaft drive, T Head. I looked at the car, in person,

about one year ago.

 

Johnny

[8E45E]

Does anyone know about this particular Stearns-Knight?  https://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/forum/your-studebaker-forum/general-studebaker-specific-discussion/1922361-destroying-value-of-rare-full-classic-car

 

Was the original engine missing? Or was it purposely swapped out for a SBC?

 

Craig

[Peterwoyen]

3 hours ago, 8E45E said:

Does anyone know about this particular Stearns-Knight?  https://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/forum/your-studebaker-forum/general-studebaker-specific-discussion/1922361-destroying-value-of-rare-full-classic-car

 

Was the original engine missing? Or was it purposely swapped out for a SBC?

 

Craig

That may be the one that was street rodded perhaps 40 years ago.  If someone sees a picture it's a sedan painted silver and maroon if I remember correctly.  

[K8096]

I'll probably get kicked off the Forum for posting this, but here it is.

 

[alsancle]

I'm not sure what is worse.   What happened to the Stearns, or the Stude guys comments.

[Grimy]

I've seen the resto-rodded Stearns twice, in 1996 and in 2015, but only talked to the owner on the latter occasion.  I think he was a resident of Sonoma County/Napa area in 2015.

 

I saw the car in 1996 at the one-and-only San Francisco Airport (SFO) employees' car show -- employees only as exhibitors and observers because the show was held inside the fence at the huge United Airlines (UA) Maintenance Base on the north side of the airport.  I drove my non-resto-rodded 1936 Pierce-Arrow sedan for the occasion.  The car was refurbished and modified by the same person who owned it in 2015, and he was a UA mechanic/machinist.  I do not remember his name.

 

In 2015 we were both retired and displayed our cars among a few dozen others at the annual Yountville (just north of Napa) Car Show.  (I was asked to bring my 1934 Silver Arrow coupe for the show's *silver* (25th) anniversary.) This time I sought him out, having taken a double dose of my good-natured, tolerance, and patience pills.  The driveline is a Chevrolet 454 with automatic overdrive transmission and (I think) a Chev rear axle.  The owner was most pleasant and immediately stated that as a purist, I must be aghast, but asked that I listen to his story.  He related, if I'm remembering the conversation correctly, that he had had the car 40 years, that the engine block was unsalvageable when he got it, even for him and his contacts with old-car specialty machinists, and had tried extensively to acquire another engine block without success.  He said, "I can assure you that any and all Stearns parts that I removed have gone to Stearns owners and are making their cars operable."  He stated that he uses the car to travel to and from property in Arizona (?) frequently, and has put close to 100k miles on it since completion.  I found this gentleman to be exceptionally polite and very aware of how the car is viewed in restoration circles.

Edited December 2, 2021 by Grimy
fix typo (see edit history)

[edinmass]

So, the guy drives it. That’s good. Cant find a block.......not too difficult, I know where are some for the 1929 eight. He knows what guys think of him? Hell it’s his car......that said, I wouldn’t bother to go over and look at it. As most people here know it fifty times harder to restore something to factory condition than to cut it up and make it go down the road. The good news is the parts went to others.......and the fact he has owned it forty years. Got to respect that. Personally I think it’s overall presentation is poor at best with the wheels and color choice and the lowered down chassis. As they say.......”To each his own.”

Edited December 2, 2021 by edinmass (see edit history)

[Grimy]

1 minute ago, edinmass said:

Cant find a block.......not too difficult, I know where are some for the 1929 eight.

I believe he said he spent about 5 years looking for a block in the late 1970s-early 1980s which would be pre-internet even for you, Ed, and pricey long distance and Polaroid photos.  And I inferred that at one time, at least, he was a member of a Stearns info exchange group.

[edinmass]

George......when there is a will there is a way. Hell, if it was a Packard, Caddy, or even a Pierce sedan from 1929.......it wouldn’t be much of a loss. On a car that basically doesn’t exist.......it’s a shame. I haven’t met the guy.....I will accept you “read” of him. My experience is 99 percent of the big stuff that’s hot rodded is lazy/money/time issues. Not to mention lack of taste. The car in “stock” appearance has decent eyeball for a 1929 sedan. Lower it down like he did..........trying to make it something it never was, and really never will be. With 100k on the clock I will also give him some extra credit.........it’s being used. 

[Grimy]

I hear you, Ed, I don't approve either.  What I wanted to convey, though, is he made a call -- that most of us would consider really, really wrong -- many years ago and is happily living with the results.  He's not one of those in-your-face "my car, my taste" guys, and knows he's a bit of a pariah in today's world, and those were rather surprising to me.  I appreciated that he didn't shxt-can Stearns parts but instead got them to other Stearns owners. 

[alsancle]

I disapprove of it not because of the engine swap, because given the time. I understand it. I disapprove of it because it’s freaking ugly.

 

Given that he was a machinist, I’m sure he could’ve figured out how to use the Stearns driveshaft connect it up to his modern transmission, and left the rest stock. A much more interesting car and not something embarrassing to look at.

Edited December 2, 2021 by alsancle (see edit history)

[edinmass]

I agree with AJ.......dump a Packard Super 8 in it......and drive the wheels off of it.

[58L-Y8]

If someone can round-up the correct Stearns-Knight components, and make the commitment to restore it to factory spec's, at least the chrome and sheet metal is done... 

 

I concur Ed, return it to factory chassis spec's and appearance, but if an engine isn't to be had, fit it with a Packard 356 ci straight eight from a 1948-'50 22nd-23rd Series Custom Eight.

[alsancle]

10 minutes ago, 58L-Y8 said:

If someone can round-up the correct Stearns-Knight components, and make the commitment to restore it to factory spec's, at least the chrome and sheet metal is done... 

 

I concur Ed, return it to factory chassis spec's and appearance, but if an engine isn't to be had, fit it with a Packard 356 ci straight eight from a 1948-'50 22nd-23rd Series Custom Eight.

Steve, you still have to do the painting and interior.  Go back a few posts and check out the picture of the original long wheelbase sedan.

[alsancle]

A couple of the Stude Guys were remarking that at least the car was still here. This reminded me of having your uncle wandering around the backyard as a zombie, and remarking that at least uncle is still with us.

[Peterwoyen]

There are as many or more people in the street rod camp as there are those of us in the restoration camp.  It's a matter of choice and taste, almost like politics.  Both camps vehemently argue that they are right.  At least the car isn't completely monochromatic.  I personally like all of the detail of an original car.  I like history and driving a car that depicts its era.  It's as close as we have to a time machine.  I believe we ended up with the engine and the gauge cluster, maybe the rear diff, through Art A.  The engine is missing heads or sleeves, maybe both.  Remaining bits have been traded here or there to keep peoples cars running.  All 12 of us, or whatever it is.

     

[58L-Y8]

31 minutes ago, alsancle said:

Steve, you still have to do the painting and interior.  Go back a few posts and check out the picture of the original long wheelbase sedan.

AJ:

Notice I said "chrome and sheet metal", I didn't include paint and upholstery, which would still require correcting as well.  Although the proper Stearns-Knight straight eight would be ideal, the suggestion of the 356 ci Packard engine would be at least a Classic Era engine capable of motivating a vehicle of such mass and be a respectable substitute which might have been installed in the ensuing era.  Heck, one could even pull the old DuPont gambit, fit a faux box cover to make it look like a sleeve-valve...

Steve

[Mark Huston]

18 hours ago, alsancle said:

I'm not sure what is worse.   What happened to the Stearns, or the Stude guys comments.

Agreed.  The SDC forum posting on the Stearns-Knight is an example of why I am not a member of the SDC (Studebaker Drivers Club) nor do I visit their website.  It is good to have the occasional reminder.   

[Mark66A]

Been busy working on a 7 passenger Stearns, so I've been remiss on reviewing and commenting here. I'll try to catch up a bit  (thanks to a nudge from Pete Woyen).

      A.J. - yes, my brass era Stearns-Knight is a 1912 model. And, yes it is the first sleeve valve appearance by a car manufacturer in the United States. They were introduced in June of 1911. My car was bought new prior to November of 1911. My car has the plain flat radiator cap.  The Standing Knight mascot was introduced in Nov of 1911.

      Duane Perrin's 8 cyl cars are now comfortably resting in a garage in Iowa. The new owner is an experienced collector and is working on a plan for them. I would dearly like to nab the buffalo wire wheel drive hubs from the burned car for the 8 cyl speedster.  The speedster was created in the 1930's and raced on circle tracks in the Boston area. The chassis was shortened to 110" and is an original SK "H" or "J" chassis (can't read the S/N on the frame rail). It was without engine or transmission when I got it, but now cradles the correct 8cyl running gear recovered from a sawmill near Montreal.

     The street rodded SK was at one time an east coast car and had six wood spoke wheels with (very classy) side-mounts.  The engine, rear axle, steering gear and a few other parts from that car are being well cared for in Minnesota. The gauges from that car are in the 7 passenger touring that is now in Jacksonville. The oil pan is in the hands of a Stearns savant in West Palm. The owner of the street rodded  SK is a nice guy and has been helpful in locating parts. Be nice to him. He originally restored the car and drove it. Then he experienced a series of costly mechanical misfortunes culminating with broken sleeves. Those series of event led to the car becoming a street rod.  It is what it is and someone would have to spend big bucks to return it to stock.

     A.J. can you send me a digital copy of that newspaper article so I can print it off? Thanks.  Also the pictures I sent you have to have been taken in or later than 1958 based on the 1958 Chevy in the background.

     I think I'm caught up now!

 

 

Edited December 12, 2021 by Mark66A (see edit history)

[Mark66A]

Regarding the discussion on Nov 27 and 28 of the newspaper photo identified as a 1912 Stearns Knight. Confusion may occur in identifying it as a poppet valve car vs a sleeve valve car. Prior to the sleeve valve (Knight engine) introduction Stearns made three models. The 45-90 six, a 30-60 four and a 15-30 four. Upon introduction of the Stearns-Knight Four, all other models were eventually dropped. The SK Four was built on the 15-30 chassis, so I believe they look similar, but the engines are different. There are a number of these cars currently active in the collector world. The article in question features the car that I currently own. It was active is southern California tours in the late 1940's and 50's and went into the collector world in 1950 when it was purchased by Robert Gottlieb.  Here I am attempting to start it. It has since been treated to electric start.

 

Now on to the street rodded Stearns-Knight. I recalled having a photo of it prior to the "transformation". Here is is for your viewing pleasure.

[alsancle]

Cool.  I thought that might be your car Mark.   

[Mark66A]

Ed, take a good look at the front view photo of the SK with louvers taken at a car show in Florida in the 1970's.  Zoom in if needed and look at the dual spare tires. Those things perched on top of the tires are rear view mirrors. They are very nice and period correct. I'm sure you agree!

[Mark66A]

And another V-12 sleeve valve motor - England's finest!