prewarnut Posted August 27, 2021 Share Posted August 27, 2021 ...also related questions are is there any trick in checking compression readings? Is there a different acceptable range? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted August 27, 2021 Author Share Posted August 27, 2021 1 hour ago, prewarnut said: ...also related questions are is there any trick in checking compression readings? Is there a different acceptable range? I woke Ed up and told him to do something useful and get in here with some responses. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted August 27, 2021 Share Posted August 27, 2021 40 minutes ago, alsancle said: I woke Ed up and told him to do something useful and get in here with some responses. I was up at 5am...........lots going on, will get back later today. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted August 27, 2021 Share Posted August 27, 2021 (edited) Ok, what was wrong with the Stearns? Simple........everything done to it since 1950. Owners who would rather spend ten cents on a cigar than the car. Fortunately, overall the car was already in very good condition. The next fortunate thing.......no one drove it. They may have run it around the block.......but the car hasn’t seen any real miles since the 50’s. Proof please you say? The 1962 tires couldn’t have had three hundred miles on them......so that’s 300 miles over fifty years............they did find a blind and retarted tractor mechanic to service it. Fortunately he was lazy as he was incompetent. We have removed all the tractor mechanic repairs, and serviced the car as it would have been when new by the dealer in 1929. How do you get a car to smoke like a WWII destroyer laying down a smoke screen like the one at the Battle of Leyte Gulf? Easy........service it correctly. With lots of help from the Stearns and sleeve valve community...........and especially Mark Young.....I was able to diagnose the problems, and resolve them. Fact is, the past owner was so worried he would have to spend a dime on the engine, he adjusted everything to the 99 percent of the extreme end of the envelope........125 pounds of oil pressure at idle? And a bunch of other issues. With the help, photos, and experience offered by others I fixed the car.........couldn’t have done it in a month of Sunday's without them....so...... THANK YOU ALL! Phil “with the hands like George the Animal Steel” was also a great help. A collaboration of many people, fixed this car. And in the near future, a world class one off New York Auto Show Car will be a reliable, sorted, and often used car......as it should be. Cars have wheels for a reason......drive them. This is one of the most exotic and unusual power plants ever installed in a car..........it’s well done, powerful, and reliable......... an actually a joy to drive. Come on down to Palm Beach for the CCCA Annual Meeting in January........and get a ride in a unique automobile that less than a handful of people now living have had a ride in. Edited August 27, 2021 by edinmass (see edit history) 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted August 27, 2021 Share Posted August 27, 2021 Found a photo of the last guy who was fixing the Stearns........... 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark66A Posted August 28, 2021 Share Posted August 28, 2021 (edited) I'll take a moment to shed a different light on the mechanic (actually a certified mechanical engineer) who owned the Brunn as well as my '12 Stearns Knight four for about 50 years. This same mechanic is responsible for the restoration of the four Stearns Knight cars in the AACA museum - which are fabulous. Restorations he did for others were award winning at major shows. The Brunn and the '12 were his personal cars. They were kept in a heated garage with the idea that he would get to them "some day". Ill health and his passing occurred first. He often quoted this passage from the 1912 Stearns Knight “Instructions for Care and Operation Stearns Knight Motor Cars” page seven. “It is much cheaper to burn oil than machinery, and too much oil is better by far than too little." That passage is from a day early in automobile development and when oils were poor compared to those of today. Most of the sleeve valve experts today disagree with the "burn oil not metal" mantra. All well worn motors burn oil. Sleeve valve motors without rectifiers smoke a little bit. Those with them do not or should not. The Brunn engine is thought to have over 250,000 miles on it with no major overhaul - just repairs. My 1912 Four just received it's first major overhaul after a documented 420,000 miles. It was completely worn out and had been kept running over the years by a succession of shade tree mechanics prior to Art's ownership. If you see a sleeve valve car running down the road and it smokes a bit consider that there is a 98% chance it still has it's original sleeves and has a ton of miles on it. I want to give high praise to Ed for sorting out the issues with the Brunn!! I also want to commend it's long term previous owner for saving and preserving it and almost single handed promoting of sleeve valve cars for over 50 years! The biggest praise though should go to the engineers like Pete Sterling and F.B. Stearns for their development of Charles Knight's design. Edited August 28, 2021 by Mark66A (see edit history) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted August 28, 2021 Share Posted August 28, 2021 The people who owned the cars back when they had little to no value were the founders of the hobby. Back then, as today, old habits and values are hard to change......or break. I see it in myself looking at toys that were available to me for pocket money in the 70’s and 80’s.........today some of them are now 50k, not 50 bucks. Thus I see myself in the mirror and understand the early/late relationship of money and value......which are two totally different things. I’m not complaining about the people who came before us..........I’m almost as old fashioned and old school as they are..........and my friends and I are not only a dying breed..........we are going extinct. People who lived through the depression never got over it.........till the day they died.........much of the wisdom......and baggage that came along with that experience.......was passed along to me.........for better, and worse. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookie Man Posted August 28, 2021 Share Posted August 28, 2021 Art restored the chassis and motor of my 1928 Brunn bodied SK. It is truly a beautiful restoration and me mechanically excellent. Although I never met him he was a true gentleman to me in phone conversations to a total novice.I have numerous written letters from him trying to explain details of my car. Check out these pictures, his work speaks for itself. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted August 28, 2021 Author Share Posted August 28, 2021 52 minutes ago, Cookie Man said: Art restored the chassis and motor of my 1928 Brunn bodied SK. It is truly a beautiful restoration and me mechanically excellent. Although I never met him he was a true gentleman to me in phone conversations to a total novice.I have numerous written letters from him trying to explain details of my car. Check out these pictures, his work speaks for itself. Darryl you need to fire that and take a video for us. Just to clear up some points my inarticulate but savant friend is making. These cars have had dozens of hands on them over the years. Sometimes they are in the hands of a careful caretaker like Art and Chris Koch and we are fortune. And sometimes the owner or mechanic just doesn't have the expertise or money to fix things the perfect way and they do what they can to keep the car running. Ultimately we are lucky that they saved them any way they could. The Brunn was used extensively for 30 years after the last Stearns Knight dealer went out of business but before Art bought it. Most of the hacks Ed has found are ancient and probably come from that period. I can also understand Art's motto of oil over metal. If the engine goes it becomes garage art. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
md murray Posted August 28, 2021 Share Posted August 28, 2021 10 hours ago, Mark66A said: My 1912 Four just received it's first major overhaul after a documented 420,000 miles. -I may have missed were you might have mentioned this previously in this thread- that's just plain remarkable. How on earth did a 1912 automobile happen to rack up so many miles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark66A Posted August 29, 2021 Share Posted August 29, 2021 Here is the legend: 1911 to 1940: The '12 was sold in L.A. - likely in late 1911 but prior to the introduction of the standing knight mascot in November of 1911. It was used extensively by the first owner who, when done with the car, turned it over to the sales department of his company in L.A. They used it on sales calls all over the area for many years. 36x4 Tires became unavailable and wheels were cut down to 23" wheels. 1940- 1950 Car owned by Lynn Kelsey-Councilman District 14, L.A. Township. Kelsey verified to Robert Gottlieb that the the car had 320,000 miles accumulated by the first owner. Kelsey used this as his only car during WW-II. He commuted daily from L.A. to San Diego adding about 90,000 miles to the car during his ownership. 1950 - 1954: The car entered the collector world. Robert Gottlieb of L.A. became the owner. He was a collector and writer. He gave the car it's first repaint, changing the color from blue with yellow wheels to burgundy with red wheels. Much, but not all of the upholstery was also repaired or replaced. While on tour in San Diego, traveling at 60 mph (with the smaller wheels), Gottlieb broke a sleeve. The sleeve was brazed and the car was subsequently sold. 1954 to 1964 Car was owned by Harry Blades of Garden Grove, CA. l964 to 1966 Car was owned by Ralph McCune of Orange, CA. During his ownership the sleeve brazed by Gottlieb broke and the engine was disassembled and sold. 1966-2014 Art Aseltine purchased the car in 1966. He repaired the motor, put on the correct size wheels, sourcing front wheels from a Hudson and having new rear wheels built. 2014 to Present. Mark and Barb Young bought the car and immediately brought it to Jerry Szostak for an engine rebuild. The car now boasts new eccentric shaft, sleeves, bearings, pistons, heads, repaired jugs and literally all new or rebuilt rotating parts. This was a massive job, and I know of no one else who I could have trusted to get it done. The result is fantastic. We are still breaking in the engine rebuild. I've not pushed the car over 50 mph yet. 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark66A Posted August 29, 2021 Share Posted August 29, 2021 Perhaps this group could help me solve a minor mystery about the '12 Stearns Knight. On it's dash is a plaque commemorating a tour (or caravan) in 1948. I have not been able to find any information about this event. Inquiries to HCCA have not been productive. Thanks for any information you can provide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFindlay Posted August 29, 2021 Share Posted August 29, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Mark66A said: Perhaps this group could help me solve a minor mystery about the '12 Stearns Knight. On it's dash is a plaque commemorating a tour (or caravan) in 1948. I have not been able to find any information about this event. Inquiries to HCCA have not been productive. Thanks for any information you can provide. You'll find it written up in the HCCA Gazette of June 1948, including a picture of your car on page 54. Here's the link: https://ia801809.us.archive.org/28/items/sim_horseless-carriage-gazette_1948-06_10_2/sim_horseless-carriage-gazette_1948-06_10_2.pdf Peter 1910 Russell-Knight Edited August 29, 2021 by PFindlay added image (see edit history) 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark66A Posted August 29, 2021 Share Posted August 29, 2021 Thank you Peter! I note that the Caravan was let by club president Lindley Bothwell in his Stearns Racer formerly owned by Barney Oldfield. Is that the 45-90 now wearing a touring body near San Francisco? If not, does it still exist somewhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted August 29, 2021 Author Share Posted August 29, 2021 Nice work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Harper Posted August 29, 2021 Share Posted August 29, 2021 Mark, Ed and A.J., I appreciate your responses to my question (aka sleeve valves & smoke) I had to look up the oil rectifier and how it worked. Cool stuff! https://www.wokr.org/library/skinner_rectifier.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark66A Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 The Skinner Oil Rectifier was used on a number of cars including Packard. On the sleeve valve cars it used vacuum to pull oil off the sleeves and then "refined" the oil by burning off gasoline or other contaminates. If that ball valve at the bottom sticks, your car will smoke like crazy. A good hard tap with a wrench usually fixes it. I had an experience in my 1929 Willys Knight Varsity Roadster in 2019 that caused the car to smoke excessively. We were descending a very long steep hill in either 1st or 2nd gear when it began to smoke like crazy. I did rap on the rectifer at the bottom and it did quit smoking, but it also may have been caused by the engine braking. I did a little research on the Skinner company and believe it is now known as Purolator. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterwoyen Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 On 8/28/2021 at 9:53 PM, Mark66A said: Thank you Peter! I note that the Caravan was let by club president Lindley Bothwell in his Stearns Racer formerly owned by Barney Oldfield. Is that the 45-90 now wearing a touring body near San Francisco? If not, does it still exist somewhere? I'll let others verify but I believe that's correct. It was restored as a touring car and owned by a private collector. Its the only known surviving 45-90 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pughs Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 Sadly, I have to report that Jack Combs, from who I bought my Stearns-Knight limousine and also has the beautifully restored gray seven passenger sedan passed away on August 11th. He has been in poor health for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark66A Posted September 10, 2021 Share Posted September 10, 2021 I had the opportunity to ride in that gray seven passenger sedan when it was still in Connecticut. It was an original Connecticut car which was found and restored by the owner of Clyde's Cider Mill in Old Mystic. Fast and smooth!! Being a north east car it has an exhaust heater with the vent in the back seat. Harold used interior door handle brass casting that Art had made. They were not plated due to some loss of detail. The stainless steel casting available from Australia are excellent (Vintage and Classic Reproductions). The 2007 WOKR meet in Vernon, CT may have been the last national meet that Art and Sarah Aseltine attended. Harold loaned the gray car to Art for that meet. The only issue that I am aware of is that Harold had significant difficulty in sourcing an original fuel pump for the car (AC -no model # with a '27 date). Harold ran an electric pump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pughs Posted September 10, 2021 Share Posted September 10, 2021 Here is a photo of the gray seven passenger Stearns-Knight. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookie Man Posted September 12, 2021 Share Posted September 12, 2021 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted September 13, 2021 Author Share Posted September 13, 2021 2 hours ago, Cookie Man said: congrats! First time in how many years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookie Man Posted September 13, 2021 Share Posted September 13, 2021 It was not started for three years. It took nine months to free the engine after fuel tank and fuel lines were redone. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark66A Posted September 14, 2021 Share Posted September 14, 2021 I had a similar experience. I will never again store a car with ethanol fuel in the tank. What a mess. It turned the fuel green from the copper gas lines and became a consistency closer to jello than water. I now do my best to fill up at 91 octane non-ethanol pumps. Winters here in the northland are Lo-o-o-g, so proper fuel storage is essential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted September 14, 2021 Author Share Posted September 14, 2021 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Mark66A said: I had a similar experience. I will never again store a car with ethanol fuel in the tank. What a mess. It turned the fuel green from the copper gas lines and became a consistency closer to jello than water. I now do my best to fill up at 91 octane non-ethanol pumps. Winters here in the northland are Lo-o-o-g, so proper fuel storage is essential. You are lucky you can get non-ethanol from a pump. Here in the People's Republic that would be a long prison sentence. We have to buy racing gas at 10 dollars a gallon or more if you are shipping it. Although, a guy that I think should know what he talking about says that pump gas with Stabil in it will last the winter ok. Edited September 14, 2021 by alsancle (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark66A Posted September 16, 2021 Share Posted September 16, 2021 On 9/14/2021 at 5:22 PM, alsancle said: You are lucky you can get non-ethanol from a pump. Here in the People's Republic that would be a long prison sentence. We have to buy racing gas at 10 dollars a gallon or more if you are shipping it. Although, a guy that I think should know what he talking about says that pump gas with Stabil in it will last the winter ok. Most marinas sell non-ethanol gas. Also here in the mid west it is very common at many stations. You may want to consider a move to North Dakota. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted September 30, 2021 Author Share Posted September 30, 2021 From tonight. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted September 30, 2021 Author Share Posted September 30, 2021 We found one original grease cap in the trunk tonight. The inside is clearly painted dark brown almost black with the light brown painted over the outside. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted September 30, 2021 Author Share Posted September 30, 2021 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 I think AJ is excited. He got a taste of the car on the road, and while we still have a journey ahead of us......the light at the end of the tunnel is clear and bright. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
58L-Y8 Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 Your Stearns-Knight rendered every other car in that parking lot invisible! Regal bearing and road presence in spades! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted October 1, 2021 Author Share Posted October 1, 2021 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted October 22, 2021 Author Share Posted October 22, 2021 I finally got around to uploading the video from the night we were out at dinner. 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted November 24, 2021 Author Share Posted November 24, 2021 Did I already post this? It is pretty interesting, listing some mechanical updates for the very last Eight Cylinder cars. I'm not sure I recall this picture either. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Harper Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 9 hours ago, alsancle said: Did I already post this? It is pretty interesting, listing some mechanical updates for the very last Eight Cylinder cars. I'm not sure I recall this picture either. That's ok A.J. I don't remember either. Part of the fun of getting old is the joy in rediscovering what you forgot from the day before. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walt G Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 Terry your last sentence is perfect. It is why many driver's license have a photo of the person it was issued to. Those wonderful "oh yeah" senior moments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Harper Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 4 minutes ago, Walt G said: Terry your last sentence is perfect. It is why many driver's license have a photo of the person it was issued to. Those wonderful "oh yeah" senior moments. So true Walt. Unfortunately I had the pleasure of visiting our local DMV (always a joy) that old fart in the mug shot on my license can't possibly be me! (LOL) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted November 24, 2021 Author Share Posted November 24, 2021 Duane's old car? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted November 25, 2021 Share Posted November 25, 2021 (edited) And the answer is......YUP! Taken at his house about 16 months ago.......photo taken the same day I picked up the 1917 White. Edited November 25, 2021 by edinmass (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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