Jump to content

Recommended Posts

This past summer, I posted a thread asking what might be causing my transmission from slipping out of gear. I got a lot of helpful responses, and after adjusting linkages, changing fluid, etc, it became apparent that it was an internal transmission problem. Luckily, I knew someone in the next state (VT -- I live in MA) that has a lot of experience working on these pre-war Chryslers. So I limped it up to his garage, and four months, a transmission and overdrive rebuild, a complete engine overhaul (reboring the cylinders, resufacing the head, new valves, etc. etc etc) my Chrysler is back in my hands and feels amazing! I can honestly say that I had never truly experienced the way this car was supposed to feel in my first three years of owning it. Here are a couple of before/after pictures of the engine, and there are more shots on my friend, Shaun's, Facebook page (posted with his permission). If you look around his pictures, you'll see that he's had some very impressive old cars in his shop. 

 

Dave

 

 

DSCN0194.JPG

DSCN3987.JPG

DSCN3921.JPG

DSCN5709.JPG

DSCN4073.JPG

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Spinneyhill,

 

Funny you should ask that. The original intention was to paint the entire block red, including the freeze plugs. When we got the block back from the machine shop, he had used rebuilders cast paint, meanwhile Shaun had painted the head, valve covers, oil pan, etc red. Essentially, I liked the look of the silver cast against the red, and the brass freeze plugs match the brass radiator top (I had stripped it a couple of years ago when a battery exploded and stripped most of the paint from the radiator). So the short answer is that I just liked the look of it. Purists would probably hate it, but the car isn't original anyway, as I've reproduced all the interior plastic in maple, and the seats had a recover sometime back in the '70's.

 

Dave

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Nice work. Can you share what work was done at what cost? What was wrong with the trans for it to slip out of gear? Always nice to see what's out there and the comparisons. I would say that was about a 15k job. Any pictures of the bad parts? 

Here is a 41 Chry that we started on and the customer went in another direction. 

inbox_14812__draft_1441305406969.jpeg

inbox_14814__draft_1441305432899.jpeg

inbox_16025__draft_1443889362364.jpeg

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks everyone. It really is great to have the car back, and in the 2 weeks I've had it, have already gone for several nice long drives, keeping in mind that it's still a break-in period. Hoping the snow holds off for a while, so I can continue to enjoy it for a bit longer.

 

Countrytravler, let's see...starting from the beginning - new king pins; new e-brake; transmission overhaul with many new (NOS) parts, idler gear, 1st/rev, synchro rings (most likely the cause of slippage); engine rebore (.004 over) rings, valves, springs (etc.), cam overhaul, new timing chain and sprockets; overdrive overhaul; new clutch, rebuilt master brake cylinder...actually going to have to check because I know there's more.  The trickiest part was sourcing the parts (8's are a bit tougher to find parts for than 6's) and keeping them coming in a timely fashion so that the project didn't get bogged down. There was also some detailing work in the engine compartment and frame, and a few small fabricated parts. From the time I dropped the car off, to the time I picked it up, it was 4 months, which I thought was remarkable, considering some of the challenges of sourcing, scheduling the machine shop, etc.

 

I do have lots of pictures of the old and new parts, and lots of detail in the assembly. Shaun was great about sending pictures each night, and we've ended up with a pretty impressive pictorial of the rebuild. Let me talk to Shaun about quoting price (and frankly I haven't totaled it up entirely) but the breakdown of cost ended up being about 40% parts, 40% labor and 20% machine shop.

 

If there are specific pictures of parts you'd like to see, I can post what I have. It's nice for me to be able to contribute a bit instead of just asking questions.

 

Dave

Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, 1941_Saratoga said:

Thanks everyone. It really is great to have the car back, and in the 2 weeks I've had it, have already gone for several nice long drives, keeping in mind that it's still a break-in period. Hoping the snow holds off for a while, so I can continue to enjoy it for a bit longer.

 

Countrytravler, let's see...starting from the beginning - new king pins; new e-brake; transmission overhaul with many new (NOS) parts, idler gear, 1st/rev, synchro rings (most likely the cause of slippage); engine rebore (.004 over) rings, valves, springs (etc.), cam overhaul, new timing chain and sprockets; overdrive overhaul; new clutch, rebuilt master brake cylinder...actually going to have to check because I know there's more.  The trickiest part was sourcing the parts (8's are a bit tougher to find parts for than 6's) and keeping them coming in a timely fashion so that the project didn't get bogged down. There was also some detailing work in the engine compartment and frame, and a few small fabricated parts. From the time I dropped the car off, to the time I picked it up, it was 4 months, which I thought was remarkable, considering some of the challenges of sourcing, scheduling the machine shop, etc.

 

I do have lots of pictures of the old and new parts, and lots of detail in the assembly. Shaun was great about sending pictures each night, and we've ended up with a pretty impressive pictorial of the rebuild. Let me talk to Shaun about quoting price (and frankly I haven't totaled it up entirely) but the breakdown of cost ended up being about 40% parts, 40% labor and 20% machine shop.

 

If there are specific pictures of parts you'd like to see, I can post what I have. It's nice for me to be able to contribute a bit instead of just asking questions.

 

Dave

Where did you find the timing chain/ cam and crank gears?

I cannot find any and need two sets for two up coming 1948 and 50 engine rebuilds.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yep those gears are like hen's teeth...

 

I got the crankshaft sprocket at Bernbaum (617-244-1118), the chain from Egge and the camshaft gear in a shop south of Boston called Then and Now Automotive (781) 335-8860. I was pretty discouraged after spending a lot of time searching for the pair of sprocket (the chain was easy) and came very close to putting the old set back, but T&N has some hard to find parts sometimes.

 

Dave

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello Dave, I am restoring a 1941 Saratoga C30 (3 windows coupe) 8L, my car is located at the north of Italy. I will need some indications regarding parts and some tips regarding the restoration process. Thanks in advance,

Shahar

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Shahar,

 

I'd love to see some pictures of your car. I'll help as much as my limited experience allows. Fortunately, there are quite a few people in this forum who are well-versed in the pre-war straight 8's and variations of the fluid drive transmissions of that era.

 

Dave

Link to post
Share on other sites

Dave, attached a photo of my car as I received it (it can be seen in other thread). But now the body is off and the chassis was striped and is away for painting. The body is within the panel beater who said that it is not so bad (high quality steel). Will post more photos in the weekend. Thanks, ST

20140507_173124.jpg

IMG_20160225_112235P.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

The fluid drive actually has nothing to do with the clutch or the transmission.  It sits between the engine and the clutch.  It looks like a torque converter.  In a non fluid drive car the flywheel/drive plate and clutch are mounted to the back end of the engine crankshaft.  With a fluid drive the  the fluid drive unit mounts to the crankshaft and then the drive plate and clutch mount to the back end of the fluid drive unit. It replaces the rigid connection from the engine to the drive train with a fluid connection.  That is why the car can come to a complete stop while still in gear.  The front turbine of the fluid drive turns with the engine.  The rear turbine of the fluid drive is rotated by the turning fluid in the fluid drive unit which then rotates the clutch drive plate.  The input shaft from the transmission is driven from the clutch.  The gear selection is either made manually or automatically advanced depending on the type of transmission system.  But if the brakes are applied with the car in gear, the rear turbine slows with the car and can be stopped while the front turbine continues to spin with the engine.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
53 minutes ago, Ron42Dodge said:

The fluid drive actually has nothing to do with the clutch or the transmission.  It sits between the engine and the clutch.  It looks like a torque converter.  In a non fluid drive car the flywheel/drive plate and clutch are mounted to the back end of the engine crankshaft.  With a fluid drive the  the fluid drive unit mounts to the crankshaft and then the drive plate and clutch mount to the back end of the fluid drive unit. It replaces the rigid connection from the engine to the drive train with a fluid connection.  That is why the car can come to a complete stop while still in gear.  The front turbine of the fluid drive turns with the engine.  The rear turbine of the fluid drive is rotated by the turning fluid in the fluid drive unit which then rotates the clutch drive plate.  The input shaft from the transmission is driven from the clutch.  The gear selection is either made manually or automatically advanced depending on the type of transmission system.  But if the brakes are applied with the car in gear, the rear turbine slows with the car and can be stopped while the front turbine continues to spin with the engine.  

 

Very well explained.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...