gregleck

How binding are auctioneer's statements during sale?

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I have attended many auto auctions and seen some questionable cars offered.  If interested in a specific vehicle, have an expert in that marque look it over before placing a bid.  Better yet, are auctions where the seller is available to answer your questions and/or has documentation available.  I bought a car at auction eleven years ago and it had some electrical issues.  Fortunately, the seller lived not far from me and we were members of the same club.  Before I took possession he gave me the name of a well known local shop and told me to take it to them to have the problems fixed and to have them bill him.  Thus, it worked out well for me.  Had the car gone to someone from out of state and they had it shipped to them, they probably would have been stuck with a $600 bill. 

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On 11/13/2016 at 9:24 PM, JamesBulldogMiller55Buick said:

100% original?

original tires?

Original belts?

original hoses?

 

100% original is a lie in any case

Some even lie when they say, " restored to original".

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1 minute ago, Skyking said:

Some even lie when they say, " restored to original".

 

The term "restored" is an entirely different topic. Seems it's become a general term for anything that has been worked on rather than it's proper use. The 1934 Terraplane with a crate motor is NOT "restored" it's custom. 

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The phrase "100% Original" means different things to different people.  There is a guy advertising a totally restored 1937 Ford on a related forum as "an original barn find" ,  "...a time capsule" and "100% original".  The car, which has lived in a climate controlled garage for the last "38 years", has a lot of mods and non 1937 parts, yet he claims it is a "100% original...time capsule...original barn find". 

 

People misuse these words all the time. 

 

I see these types of ads all the time: 

 

1936 Ford Coupe.  Totally Restored.  Original Henry steel; chopped three inches; Chevy 350/350; mustang II; disc brakes; air conditioning; power seats; power locks; radials and custom wheels;  tilt wheel; trunk converted to rumble seat. Just finished restoration. Over $70,000 in receipts.  Must sell. 

 

Yeah,  "Totally restored."  "Original Henry steel," but the rest of it is all non Ford parts. 

 

I guess some folks need to watch their language.

 

 

 

 

 

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Edited by Pomeroy41144 (see edit history)
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Imprecise language is a problem in this hobby. I don't know how to fix it but there are a great many more hobbyists than there are people who know how to describe cars properly. I'm frankly shocked by the number of guys who can be car enthusiasts who aren't familiar with the basic terms we use to describe cars. "Original" "Classic" "Restored" are all words that are misused and can lead to misunderstandings. My wife is the registrar for a big car show our local CCCA region puts together and in order to get more Full Classics (note the capital C) on the show field, the registration flyer says "No registration fee for CCCA Full Classics." Sure enough, the guys with '57 Chevys and Model As and Mustangs all started registering for the "free" class because, after all, weren't their cars classic? What a nightmare to sort out and call them back to tell them their registrations were rejected and they would have to re-register and send cash. I think it will hurt participation in other classes simply because of a simple misuse of a word.

 

As a dealer, you will never, EVER see me use the words "perfect" "flawless" or anything else that implies perfection. Some smartass will surely buy a car, find a flaw, and demand something for nothing. No thanks. I am VERY precise with my language and I say what I mean.

 

"Original" to me means that it is substantially as the factory built it, with materials and parts that were installed at the factory. I'm not going to assume that 100% original means belts and hoses and tires, but I am going to assume paint, upholstery, trim, and all the major hardware underneath.

 

"Restored" or "Restored to original" means it was restored to AACA specifications, i.e. no modifications. It is as the factory built it, but some, many, or all of the parts have been reconditioned, replaced, or repaired.

 

"Correct" also means that it is as the factory did it, either restored or otherwise. Not modified.

 

"Modified" means modified. "Except" always means modified, too, as in, "100% original except Chevy crate motor." Sorry, no going back, your car is modified no matter how stock the rest of it is (I am reminded of the joke about McTavish the Scottish stonemason, but I won't relay it here).

 

Finally, if someone makes a claim like "100% original," you should look at the car yourself and make the determination as to how true that is. If you're spending money, it should be what you want, but you're also obligated to verify that you're buying what you think you're buying. I try to be honest when I represent cars, but I'm always relieved when someone comes to look at it with their own two eyes. That way there are no misunderstandings later because we aren't speaking the same language.

 

 

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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

YEA! What Matt said!

 

Proper terminology is key to conveying specific information. Improper use of words can and will indicate a lot about the person using those words. Proper spelling is also key. If you spell and speak poorly, people will form a negative view of you and will question your intelligence. I know one guy who is a friend of mine, but he spells at a 4th grade or less level. He laughs it off but all those around him try to let him know that is not funny at all, very sad in fact. It affects his business but refuses to use the tools at hand to correct the issue.

 

Proper use of language is important in many ways... 

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35 minutes ago, Amphicar BUYER said:

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

YEA! What Matt said!

 

X2!

 

My hot button is "numbers matching".  This is SUPPOSED to mean that the VIN derivative stamps on major components (like the block and trans case) MATCH the VIN of the car.  Many people simply take this to mean "correct".  There are thousands of correct castings with correct date codes for a particular car, but only ONE numbers-matching block. I am especially amused when I see an ad for a "numbers matching" car that was built before VIN derivative stamps were used. 

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I like, it ran good when parked. Is there a known cut off for this phrase? Maybe the length of time it takes gas to go bad in the tank. After sitting in a field for 15 years, ran good when parked does not mean much.

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1 hour ago, Xander Wildeisen said:

I like, it ran good when parked. Is there a known cut off for this phrase? Maybe the length of time it takes gas to go bad in the tank. After sitting in a field for 15 years, ran good when parked does not mean much.

In my opinion, "ran good when parked", means nothing, other than being the subject of many jokes.  It either runs at the time of the transaction or it doesn't!  And don't forget that a car  that "runs" is not the same as a car that "drives".

 

Cheerios,

Grog

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I worked at an Oldsmobile- Buick - Cad. dealer in 1966. This engine should run much farther than 22,000 Miles.  I'm betting it has 122,000 miles. As for the transmission, they were no good when new. We had from 1 to 3 of them in our service dept. CONSTANTLY. That was the weak link in these cars by a wide margin.

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Oy, the terminology.........antique and classic are the grand examples but indeed restored, original, and numbers matching are all over the map now too.  I guess we all better be prepared to do our homework and expect that the other guy may not be communicating with the same terms you are, Todd C  

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I am pretty sure that all cars that are for sale "used to run".

And quite possibly "ran well".

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The best one by far is "rust free". I think that everyone over the years has misunderstood this statement. The term rust free means, if you buy this car. You get the rust for free.:huh::(:angry:

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Decades ago, a well-known old car dealer once said to a friend of mine as he prepared to drive off in a newly purchased old car:

 

"Did I tell you about my guarantee?"

 

"No?" my friend said.

 

"I guarantee something will go wrong on this car, probably while you're driving home."

 

I don't know that I want to say something like that out loud, but it's quite true and maybe even defuses the situation a bit. Maybe I'll try it.

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Black top warrantee. As soon as you are on blacktop.

Tail light warrantee. As soon as I see the tail lights.

Hand shake (or hand to hand) warrantee. As soon as you put the money in my hand.

As-is, where is.

I will guarantee that you are getting what I am selling.

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Ran when parked is a good thing. It differentiates it from a car that they put away because the engine blew up.

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Na, useless statement

My 58 buick (which did not run when I bought it, but got running) has a shattered number 1 piston.

Its the skirt that's broken, so, once I got it running, apart from a knock at idle, it ran fine.

 

I look at it that the car got "put away" for a reason, so somethings wrong and if its been there a while, then everything is wrong

 

 

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