Enameled car emblem.....what make?

[Guest Alan2955]

i have had this emblem for 45 years or so.  It was given to me with some other old emblems which I can identify, including a H.C.S. car emblem.  Any ideas?  Likely an Indiana made car.

[JFranklin]

Maybe not but the first thought I had was Oakland. Are you sure it is a car badge? It looks more like a hat pin.

[Guest Alan2955]

6 minutes ago, JFranklin said:

Maybe not but the first thought I had was Oakland. Are you sure it is a car badge? It looks more like a hat pin.

When given to me they were all supposed to be car emblems.  It's rather large and heavy for a hat badge but who knows.  Premier automobiles used a leaf emblem, but the one I saw online had the car name on it too.  I'm really stumped.  The other 3 items with it were Marmon, Stutz, and H.C.S. brands.  The collection came from an old guy in Indianapolis.

[F&J]

pic of the back will help

 

 

[Terry Bond]

I have a friend in England who has perhaps one of the largest collections of emblems existing and I've sent him the link.  We'll see if he know it. 

Terry

[1912Staver]

Hi Terry, reasonably sure the emblem is Oakland, some of the Canadian market Oakland's had a small version of the leaf and egg corn design along with the word Oakland Canada on a oval badge.

  If you are in contact with your friend with the badge collection could you ask him if he has or has ever seen a Staver Chicago Rad badge ? It will be shield shaped , with the word Staver  and a Stags head with an arrow piercing it's neck.  { Google Staver Chicago they used the same design frequently in their advertising} I have one but I am not sure if it's an original . The other surviving Stavers don't seem to have their original badges either.

 

Thanks Greg in Canada

[Terry Bond]

I've confirmed it's 1912 Oakland.  Here is a photo of a 1912 Oakland and you can see the radiator badge on it.  I'll ask about the Staver emblem.

Terry

Edited November 12, 2016 by Terry Bond
added photo (see edit history)

[Terry Bond]

You've accurately described the Staver badge but how about posting a picture so we can advise?   I'll try and get a photo of the one in my friends collection.  Trying to get him logged into the forum so he can assist directly.  He and his son have been collecting for many years and they are great folks who are very helpful. How many Staver vehicles do you know of? 

Terry

[Guest Alan2955]

On 11/12/2016 at 8:51 AM, Terry Bond said:

I've confirmed it's 1912 Oakland.  Here is a photo of a 1912 Oakland and you can see the radiator badge on it.  I'll ask about the Staver emblem.

Terry

 

[Guest Alan2955]

That's it for sure.  The back of it has only one small spike sticking out.  Wonder if mine was a real emblem that Oakland modified to wear on clothing, or was that how emblems were made?  I don't see how it was fastened to the radiator shell.

Edited November 13, 2016 by Alan2955 (see edit history)

[1912Staver]

Sure Terry , I will attempt to post photos of my badge.  There seems to be a grand total of 5 survivors counting my basket case project car. Not many out of about 2000 cars produced over 7 years.

 Staver started as a carriage and buggy manufacturer in the later 1800's and grew into a reasonably large producer of horse drawn vehicles.

 They entered the automobile market with a high wheeler similar to Sears , Black , IHC, etc. no known survivors

Oldest Staver is a prototype restored by the late Joe Whitney, it's totally different than all of the production cars.

All of Stavers later production is divided in to two general chassis sizes 30 HP. and 40 HP.{later 45 and 55}

One 1910 30 HP. roadster survives.

My 1912 40 HP. basketcase

A 1913 40 HP. Roadster,

A 1914 45 HP, touring , was used in AACA events quite a bit in the 1960's by it's then owner Mr. Van Aken.

 

Other than scattered bits and pieces ; or perhaps an unknown car , that's it. As far as I know no new cars have turned up in 50 years or so but I would be delighted to hear of any others.

 

Greg in Canada

Edited November 13, 2016 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[Terry Bond]

I've attached a photo of the Staver emblem.  Thanks for Mike and Murray Shears for sharing.  They have a fabulous collection.  I know there is a Staver watch fob around and it seems to be fairly common. Believe it is related to their buggy manufacturing business rather than the automotive.  Of course the Staver sheet music has been mentioned previously on the forum.  This photo is from my own collection of auto sheet music (showing both front and back side). 

Terry

choose files... Click to choose files

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 13, 2016 by Terry Bond (see edit history)

[1912Staver]

Hi Terry, yes that's the emblem ! And it looks more or less identical to the one that came with my project.   The reason I am unsure if my emblem is a reproduction or an origional is that it has definitely been restored, re-plated and re-enameled. And despite the rad. tank being totally flat where the emblem attaches , it is slightly convex. 

 The emblem in your friend's collection appears to be flat.   I have speculated that whoever restored or reproduced my emblem got it wrong and made it convex in error.

I will take some photos of the emblem and if possible the top of the rad . I have the rad in storage so it's a bit hard to access.

 The lower catalog illustration shows the exact model my project is supposed to be, the model 40 RR {racing roadster} Later named the Staver Greyhound. Racing roadster is an odd name for a car that is neither a racing car or a roadster, esp. as Staver built both racing cars and cataloged a few true roadsters. Another oddity from the distant past.

 Unfortunately the presumably  aluminum body from my car vanished eon's ago.  It has remains of the attaching parts for a rear mounted gas tank, all the other Staver 40's other than the RR had a under the seat gas tank which points to the car being a RR.

 

 

My apologies for hijacking the thread, when Terry mentioned he knew of a world class emblem collector I could not resist the chance for possible further information.

 

Greg in Canada

Edited November 14, 2016 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[garnetkid]

Greg,  I wouldn't dismiss the idea that yours is not original because of the convex shape, especially if  you believe it has been restored.  I had the rad emblem  on my 25 buick done many years ago and it came back with quite a convex curve to it.  I sent them another one with an explanation of the problem with it not fitting the radiator shell.  Apparently the process of enameling requires a lot of heat, enough to warp the badge.  The second one came back warped as well.  I heated it to almost cherry red with my torch and held it pressed down to the proper shape with a thin straight edge using an anvil as a base until it cooled into the proper shape.    Leon

[TheMoneyPit]

Here's a picture of the Staver emblem on the car at the Owls Head Transportation Museum in Maine. Funny that I took this and not a picture of the whole car, but I had never seen a Staver emblem before and like to have a comparison should I get lucky finding one.

 

As a collector, I would suspect any emblem with a very smooth back and no makers marking as being a reproduction.

 

Regards, Mark 

[1912Staver]

Hi Mark and Leon. Thanks for the information about the re-enameling. I would be a bit leery about trying to flatten my emblem, but I might try your technique as a last resort.  I will experiment on something more common first.

 I think I may have answered my own question regarding if my emblem is an original or repro. I found some old photos taken by the previous owner two back that I had forgotten about in my information file.  One of them clearly shows the emblem in its unrestored state attached to the rad. So despite its now convex shape I have almost no doubt the emblem I have is the restored original.

 I agree that a smooth back without a makers mark is often a good clue the emblem is a repro. but in this case I doubt it. The 3 pins fit perfectly into recesses in the rad front and the shape matches discoloration on the rad face. I will post a picture when my camera battery recharges.

  Too bad you didn't get a better photo of the Owl's Head car. I believe it must be the Wigglesworth roadster, reputed to have been Harry Stavers personal car. It looks like it has been recently re-restored.  I was obviously in error in a previous post, the emblem on the Owl's Head car is almost certainly genuine. Here is a photo of it in the late 1950's

Greg in Canada

 

 

Here is my rad. and my emblem.

 

Edited November 15, 2016 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[TheMoneyPit]

If you are thinking of re-restoring your emblem, I would suggest you hunt down Carla Maxwell. She has a website and does incredible work.

[1912Staver]

Thanks for the tip, but for the time being I will probably live with it as is or attempt the flattening process as suggested by Leon above.  The car is still a long way from needing the emblem and you never know, a useable original might surface at some point in the future.

 I assume you are hard core emblem collector, have you ever encountered one for sale ?

P.S. I took a quick look at Clara Maxwell's website, great work but she advises re- restoration is often risky.

Greg in Canada

Edited November 14, 2016 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[TheMoneyPit]

I have never seen one before my stop at OHTM at all, let alone one that was for sale. And I have been collecting for over 40 years if that counts as "hardcore".

 

 I hope you have better luck than I have.

[lump]

I have quite a few emblems myself, including some pretty rare pieces. But never saw an Oakland Leaf/acorn emblem or a Staver emblem in person before. Cool.