Joe in Canada

Where is our vintage car market headed???

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3 hours ago, 1937hd45 said:

Were is the L29 Cord market these days? One of the best looking cars parked, how is it to drive one? Dad said the dash shift was tough to master. Imagine what it was like to have the boss's son ask you to drive his L29 cabriolet from NYC to the summer estate in Connecticut when you were 15 years old without a drivers license. Oh, those horrible rich people. :rolleyes:Bob

 

Bob,  I would have had a L29 20 years ago when they were more reasonable but my dad has a huge 810/812 bias.  A never driven one but they do have the reputation for being better looking than driving.  A nice coupe will bring 200k, maybe a bit more for a perfect one.  The later cars have a slightly bigger engine.

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L29's are interesting machines. Overall driving them is not much different than lots of other cars, but I will comment they are very tight for most people over five foot eight. I wouldn't own one because of how they are just not comfortable for a person of my size....6'1" and 210. 

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I'll always remember the L29 Cabriolet  that came out of South America with Model T Ford U joints on the front axle. Looked so odd, but for $6,000. it was a deal back then. Bob

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There's a lot of bidding left on that Cord if it's going to sell.  It's not perfect, but it has to be worth over $100K for sure.....an unrestored, not running, in pieces phaeton sold for about $60K a couple of years ago at auction....

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1 hour ago, trimacar said:

There's a lot of bidding left on that Cord if it's going to sell.  It's not perfect, but it has to be worth over $100K for sure.....an unrestored, not running, in pieces phaeton sold for about $60K a couple of years ago at auction....

 

Close. 53k,  then the buyer poured a bunch of money into it before selling it back to the original family for 69k.  Read about it here:

 

The yellow car in question is a 100k plus car all day long.

Edited by alsancle (see edit history)

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Well, I feel sorry for the auction buyer, but happy for the family to get it back!  And, they surely received more than the increased buy-back price in restoration value!!

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Are auction prices a sign of the times with fewer people biding throughout the auction or have more people changed tactic's and waiting until the end. I also notice more larger collections being broken up like this four day auction of a private museum. With the $$$$ being as low as it is the higher end stuff will end up in the US for resale or private collections at bargain prices of over 1/3 off. Click on the bid now and you can see the picture listing   http://www.shackeltonauctions.com/the-outstanding-alan-bray-collection-4-day-auction-june-7th-10th-2017/

Edited by Joe in Canada (see edit history)

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3 hours ago, Joe in Canada said:

Are auction prices a sign of the times with fewer people biding throughout the auction or have more people changed tactic's and waiting until the end. I also notice more larger collections being broken up like this four day auction of a private museum. With the $$$$ being as low as it is the higher end stuff will end up in the US for resale or private collections at bargain prices of over 1/3 off. Click on the bid now and you can see the picture listing   http://www.shackeltonauctions.com/the-outstanding-alan-bray-collection-4-day-auction-june-7th-10th-2017/

 

OMG,  what a large collection of what looks like very high quality items.

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I still wonder if any of the forum members have personal experience either buying or selling at an auction, a collector car auction. I have tossed the question out a couple of times. Maybe this is not an auction-typical group.

 

When I was a kid I went to a lot of police auctions and bought. And I used to go the the Atlantic City Swap Meet and Auction. I would always see at least one under priced car that interested me. At that auction one had to enter a relationship with Bank America and I already had a bank.

 

Bernie

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I used to go to the police auction on occasion, once bought an 86 Fiero with V6 and manual trans for $700. Guess most og my cars have been bought from CraigsLists ads. Of course I usually buy at 6-15 years and then just keep until AACA eligable. (three are now, one will be next year). Remember when the silver-streak crowd felt my GTO was too new.

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But who, on the forum, has bought or sold at a genuine collector car auction? What was the experience?

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6 hours ago, 60FlatTop said:

I still wonder if any of the forum members have personal experience either buying or selling at an auction, a collector car auction.

 

 

I have worked for an estate for 4 years.  The first car to go when I started working there, went to Dragone Classis Cars auction in upscale Westport Ct, it completely shattered the price guides valuation for the condition it was in.  Book as I recall? maybe 25 to 30k, it went for 68,200k not including perhaps 10%? buyers commission, and there was 6.25% sales tax added, to leave the grounds. 

 

2nd one failed to meet reserve, a year later. 

 

Then the 3rd one failed reserve a year later after, then it went to Owls Head Museum auction in Maine..at "their advice" as no reserve..but it backfired badly,  as it went for the opening price of 30k  should have gone for 50 k...and I am really conservative in values

 

So, the last two ..., one that failed reserve 2 years ago, and one that never was sent anywhere will go to Dragone for their next auction.

 

These all were 1934-1940 fancy cars.  Not common 50s or whatever

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Bought a T speedster many years ago at the Tiny Gould close out auction. great deal, I would up parting it out and did very well with it. Watched one of the auctions at Pebble Beach last year, great fun, guessing the sale price before the hammer fell. Bob

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Most guys here are probably like me and most other enthusiasts.

A few fair cars and a bunch of STUFF and a garage full of not very well organized tools and parts, a back yard full of future projects, etc.

(where to start)?

My neighbor died a few years ago and the his and hers children didn't get along.

I guess the courts finally decided to do an auction.

They hired an auctioneer that had several workers.

The advertising was pretty good and there was a pretty good sized crowd, maybe a hundred shoppers.

They started in the house and the workers would bring out box after box of mostly worthless junk.

EVERYTHING sold, then out behind the barn where there were several cars and trucks and parts and scrap buried in the briars and weeds.

EVERY item sold (some stuff at less than scrap price to the scrappers.

Then the side yard, better junk cars and a pile of fire wood and some shinier parts. EVERYTHING sold. Even the sprinklers and yard tools.

Then into the barn/shop, box after box, item after item want across the block. EVERYTHING sold.

In an afternoon the junky place was absolutely empty.

All those piles of stuff (we all have em) that had not been touched in years was gone.

As for the money? I suspect that the auctioneer doesn't work for free, but in my opinion he turned a scrap pile into gold, and some gold is probably worth more than a lot of STUFF.

I suspect that the auctioneer and the probate guys had some work getting ready but in a short afternoon the place was empty.

This was my first and only experience like this and an eye opener for me. So if and when I get where I need this kind of service I will bite the bullet and let someone that knows how to liquidate STUFF do his job and grab what gold might be available.

I just hope I am not dead when it happens.

 

 

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Bob bought a car at a Tiny Gould auction, for himself and parted it  out. That would be a real collector car auction, not a piles of the estate auction. I see one so far.

 

How about the forum member who can write "I sold my car" or "I bought a nice car for myself" and this is the story. Anecdotal third party stories already exist. How about right from the horse's mouth? Anyone? How about some forum buyers who have used that Big auction at fall Hershey?

 

Who buys and who sells, at these specific events, is really in line with "Where is our hobby market headed."

Bernie

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6 minutes ago, 60FlatTop said:

Bob bought a car at a Tiny Gould auction, for himself and parted it  out. That would be a real collector car auction, not a piles of the estate auction. I see one so far.

 

If you are referring to my post...?  Man up

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No, Jack mentioned the estate piles. Your example was a job you "worked" on. That is different from your own stuff.  A professional collector car auction is very different from  piles of clutter and accumulations, especially things sold to settle an estate.

 

Although some collector car auctions do dispose of estates, there is generally a whole different marketing approach. What's the hard part? The Hershey auction, Scottsdale, Auburn,these highly promoted, advertised, and, sometimes, broadcast auctions of the type seen on TV. Who has, personally gone to an auction specific to the old car hobby, selling only cars of collector status,of the type insured by a collector car specialty insurance company, AND either bought or sold a car with their own money, titled from them or to them as a result of the auction?

 

We have one, a speedster that was parted out.

 

Hobbyist and non-hobbyists refer to auction frequently, results are some of the basis of price guides. And if a specific car isn't actually sold the value gets interpolated.

 

But who is doing the deal?  Anyone of us?

 

Like Bob, I bought one. I am just waiting to tell the story.

 

Bernie

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Frank,  that Lasalle that sold at Dragone was a very cool car.  Were the other 2 convertible coupes too?  I think a half decent 34 Lasalle conv coupe is worth 50k plus all day long.

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20 minutes ago, alsancle said:

Frank,  that Lasalle that sold at Dragone was a very cool car.  Were the other 2 convertible coupes too?  I think a half decent 34 Lasalle conv coupe is worth 50k plus all day long.

 

I think the 34's would shock you as far as prices go. At least one sold privately not too long ago for huge money. I think they are rarer than many people realize. I like them, but I wouldn't fork out what they bring. Quality, fit, and finish were not to my liking. Only way to have a nice one is to over restore it. 

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Bernie,

I guess I misunderstood your query.

The dealership that I part time for does buy and sell cars auctions.

The small ones at the fairgrounds don't bring any money and is a bunch of work with very little return.

We took several cars to the Mecum auction last year at the Portland Expo Center. It was a big glitzy televised deal.

We sold a few and bought a few.

My opinion is that the dealers are dumping their junk and buying someone else's junk. Maybe slow inventory would be a better description.

The private buyers that I know that do auctions are way to rich and are the ones that make the stories about how expensive everything is these days.

A few of those buyers were at Mecum last year and some money was spent, they just didn't bite on any high end stuff we had.

My take on this whole deal is that the auction makes a lot of money, puts on a flashy show, sells a lot of alcohol and the consigners and buyers premiums make it very profitable.

Figure each car thru already has paid a couple of hundred just to be there (more if there is a reserve), (around 600 cars last year) then if a buyer wins he adds 10% to his high bid. The seller also pays a percentage (I forget how much that one is)

A fun show to watch but I would think stressful and probably impossible to make a living at from the investor side.

However, the boss is putting together a Mecum list again this year. A glutton for punishment.

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