Where is our vintage car market headed???

[Restorer32]

I can only comment on my experience. Our shop is busier than ever. Are the cars we work on getting newer? Yes, on average they are. Recently we have seen a glut of '50s and '60s Cadillacs coming thru the door. We currently have 8 full frame up restorations underway as well as quite a few partials.Everything from a 1909 complete restoration to a 1960 Cadillac Biarritz undergoing a full frame off show restoration. If anything, over the last 2 years our clientele has become younger. In the recent past we have worked on or consulted on a 1928 Studebaker, a Rickenbacker and a '35 Pontiac, all owned by folks in their 40's or younger.

[poci1957]

1 hour ago, Restorer32 said:

In the recent past we have worked on or consulted on a 1928 Studebaker, a Rickenbacker and a '35 Pontiac, all owned by folks in their 40's or younger.

 

Glad to see that

[60FlatTop]

For a century this has been a very adaptable hobby, always changing. It will certainly remain, but with mixed cultures, as there always have been. Many avid old car hobbyists have never owned a car. It is not a requirement. Many have the shell of a car that will never be completed, but they can have all the privileges of ownership without a taxing investment. I have had people walk into my garage and ask "When are you ever going to get that THING done?" "Probably never." seemed the suitable answer and it's gone now. They appeared more worried that I.

Back at the beginning I wrote that I was planning to scoop up some nice stuff over the next few decades. Bright for me; a bit gloomy for the guy I buy from.

 

I do enjoy reading the forum. A few comments above I read that it is hard to get a car lined up for work in a shop that is very picky about it's customers. Oh, really? Nothing personal, but I'm smiling pretty big.

 

When it stops being fun I'm out. Until then I am quite happy with what I have and what I day dream about. Once it a while I have to tell my Wife "Stop stepping all over my endorphin's!"

 

I had a stroke and a heart attack in '12. After healing up I had a talk with the doctor about the future. I am in better shape now than in the last 30 years. He said that for every 10 years I lived right, medical science would advance to provide me with 10 more. 40 more years is not unrealistic (laughing helps most). After that discussion I thought about how to survive that long financially. I came right home and started studying business models in third world countries so I could adapt to what's coming.

 

If you didn't smile at that last comment I might own YOUR car down the road.

 

The car hobby and life in general are too important to take seriously. Seriousness brings expectations. And that ain't good for you.

Bernie

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Hope to get the roadster out this weekend for what is likely one of the last flights before winter sets in here - or at least it is way too cold to go topless. Whether it has appreciated, depreciated, or stayed constant in terms of market value should not impact the enjoyment of the ride for me.  If it does, then it is time to collect stamps or clocks as suggested above!  

[Larry Schramm]

I put the last of the "summer" cars away for the winter yesterday.

[CarNucopia]

I think the premise that TV shows are hurting the value of collectables is a bit silly.

 

What's happening is pretty simple. Young guys don't want what old guys wanted when they were young. As much as we may want to assign blame to some external force, be it the economy, education or a TV show, it's a demographic shift that can't be reversed.  The car hobby is in fine health, it's just moving away from the part we care about. 

 

 

[Mark Shaw]

Basically, I agree with Buick64C with my take on what is happening... 

 

All of us older car guys really need to take a look back after WWII when young men and women returned home to scour "junk yards" to fix up "jalopies" for their everyday drivers.  That is when many of us got started restoring cars & now many of us are aging out and wondering who will by our collector cars. 

 

The hobby continued to evolve in the 50s & 60's to create car shows which eventually became judged events to award those who restored or modified their cars better than others.  This eventually led to commercial hot rod shops and restoration shops that enabled those with financial means (achieved in middle age or later) to become "check book restorers" who created many of the most expensive collector cars.  My point is that the hobby evolved to create a mature collector car market that young car guys cannot enter. 

 

I think young collectors who do not inherit expensive collector cars from their relatives will be inclined to do what car guys did in the 40's and 50's.  They will buy what they can afford and scrounge "Internet Junkyards" to modify cars they can afford while working full time, starting a family, etc. etc.  They will effectively create their own collector car market that will consist of more fuel efficient imports & modified electric cars that will beat the old dragsters of the older generations. 

 

Hopefully, there will still be enough "younger middle age collectors" who become affluent enough to buy our old and expensive collector cars before they become museum pieces.

 

Edited November 4, 2016 by Mark Shaw (see edit history)

[60FlatTop]

It's not like anyone is in a rut, but cars built before 1942 are called prewar. Not the sign of an adaptive group. I don't really see anything "passed along" They just don't come around any more.

Bernie

 

Born in 1948, VFW member #10585229.

[Matt Harwood]

It isn't that there's nobody to buy your cars, it's that there's nobody to buy your cars at prices that you think they should command. Please don't take that the wrong way, but some cars are getting less valuable rather quickly. In fact, I bet almost all of our old cars are currently depreciating, some faster than others. Got a 1920s sedan? Falling like a rock. Obscure orphan brands? Likewise. But even blue chip cars are floundering in a measurable way: '57 Chevys, '34 Fords, Model As, and other formerly reliably marketable cars are finding fewer and fewer eager buyers.

 

What does it mean? Well, the primary thing is that you're going to have to adjust your expectations when you sell. If you bought an antique (note the word) car in the last 20 years, I bet it's worth about what you paid. Not much appreciation, and it might even be worth less depending on when you bought it . Full Classics are seeing gains, but 4-door sedans are going to remain affordable. '50s cars are popular, but they have to be the top models with lots of bling, not garden-variety family models. Your '52 Pontiac sedan is going to struggle to find a new home, regardless of how much you've spent and how cheap a price you put on it. And I should point out that I'm totally ignoring things like high-end European brands, Ferraris, and other six- and seven-figure collectables. They live in a different market than most of us, and that's OK. They are a tiny slice of the hobby, so small that it doesn't even really count as the same thing.

 

The good news, in my opinion, is that as prices drop, the cars will become appealing to new, younger buyers who formerly couldn't afford such things. They may see a $3500 1935 Oldsmobile sedan that they can drive and enjoy immediately and maybe they'll join the hobby that way. With luck, the whole cycle will start all over as they mature into more sophisticated collectors.

 

The cars will remain. Current owners are going to have to adjust to a market with falling prices and new owners will probably not look at these as "investments" the way we used to. They'll be fun that you can buy for a shorter time then move on without a profit, like a day pass to an amusement park or a video game.

 

Getting current owners to reconcile with the changing market will be the single biggest problem and it's going to make the market messy. There's going to be a lot of cognitive dissonance for the forseeable future as owners who have been in the hobby for decades and watched prices go up steadily all that time suddenly discover that what they know and what their guts tell them about old car values are completely invalid. They will have a hard time wrapping their heads around that fact and letting go at lower, new market-correct prices. Despite overwhelming evidence of declining demand and increasing supply, they're going to insist on raising prices, because, after all, that's how it has worked since the 1950s. Estates and descendants will be even worse, because they don't have anything except the word of the deceased relative about values.

 

There will still be cars, there will still be a hobby, but there's going to be a gradual reset that hopefully will pull younger people in just because the economics of joining will improve. I'm counting on it.

Edited November 4, 2016 by Matt Harwood (see edit history)

[1912Staver]

Lots of good observations in the preceding posts. The demographic is indeed shifting.  But also very important is Wayne Sheldon's assessment of the shift of disposable income away from middle class and lower households and away from younger people in general.

  It should come as no surprise at all that high end restoration shops are busier than ever, and that the old car industry is healthy. The upper middle class and higher have rarely seen better economic times. They are a substantial group in numbers, are probably a little older on average, and are part of the post war "automobile generation".  Quite a few of them are interested in some facet of the old car hobby , and they have the disposable income to participate in a way which places little strain on the family budget.

  It's middle class and lower earners that are being pressured . Lots of have either lost jobs and been forced to take lower paying positions, or have seen their disposable income slowly erode away in an environment of income increase over time never quite keeping up with inflation.  In many middle class households this has been happening for quite a long time, and the disposable income they might have enjoyed 25 years ago is now reduced to a fraction.  Old cars at almost any level represent a hefty bite out of a 2016 middle class household budget.

  The higher end cars have a healthy future, as their owners have a healthy wallet , now and for the foreseeable future.  It's the lower end cars, and project cars that are threatened with disappearing or becoming "rat rod" material.

 

Greg in Canada

[trimacar]

As to the younger generations "disposable income", from what I've seen, a lot of young'uns make good money, but the problem is they want EVERYTHING now and not wait.  They (married couple or such) want that big house with two sinks in the master bathroom and stainless appliances and granite countertops, and that nice new car to drive....so they're in over their heads from day one, so now BOTH have to work jobs and long hours.

 

When I started out, I bought a small house and fixed it up.  Later, sold it and moved to a bigger house, and so on, building as we went, not starting out with it ALL.

 

They'd have more disposable income if they didn't try to buy everything perfect the first time out....

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Well, it is not new year's yet - so far I have tried to keep last year's resolution to ignore anything political (like the ethanol debates) and done a pretty good job of it.  This coming year I might swear off the values/interest threads but it is now only November.  

 

Matt as usual makes sense.  Makes me think of something that might be of some interest to folks - in thinking about this, trends seem to tie to my theory that different cars suit different purposes.  Like the top 1% or whatever of the market, real world cars that represent the top 1% or less of true #1 cars should, in most cases appreciate as well.  I think there is a market for someone interested in the concours scene but not at a million dollars plus.

 

I like the trends towards driving more, and love to see the under 40 crowd putting grandpa's "A" back on the road (this IS happening now, quite a bit) or younger families who are touring with brass cars.  If prices fall a bit some folks might get hurt, but a lot might find it less of an issue - especially very long term owners.  The interest will be there, I just think it might be a smaller group, does not mean all of our cars will be junked in 20 years.

 

Certain cars continue to appreciate like wildfire - Porsche 911, hardly rare in the sense many of us would define it, someone is buying these cars and it is likely not all the older guy who might be more interested in paring down.  

 

Interest absolutely drives values, but you cannot control it whether it is driven by economics or other factors.  So enjoy what you like - when it comes time to sell the market will dictate what it will take for someone else to enjoy it when you are done.  I bet your still ahead of the game when you factor in pleasure which after all, is why anyone would be involved in this or any hobby, right?

 

[Steve_Mack_CT]

David, forget everything I said, I just read an article stating the yellow Packards are the ones that will depreciate the quickest.  I will swap you my new car for that car before you lose your shirt on it - just call me...  

[1912Staver]

Trimacar, I do agree with your observation but with reservations. You are describing a pretty small portion of young people. Many others are getting by with very modest standards of living in a generally income challenged environment.  My local area is not typical, but here a very modest starter home {condo} is around $375,000.00 Canadian {$ 280 or so U.S.} A single family house is $600,000.00 {Cdn.} for what is anywhere else a teardown , A million+ for the sort of house in your example. Very few young couples are starting with "nice" homes around here , are still saddled with huge housing costs and probably needed a substantial assist from parents to even get started in home ownership. Yes the children of the top 25 % probably have good educations , have started in decent paying employment , and have a nice starter home.

   But this is definitely not the case with the other 75 %. And old cars ? Not likely, esp. in the typical Apt. or Condo that is the most likely place a young family will call home. No space, no parking other than where the daily driver is required by strata rules to be parked, same rules generally say no car work of any kind to be performed on strata grounds. Almost always = no hobby car.

Greg in Canada

Edited November 4, 2016 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[Guest Skyking]

13 hours ago, nick8086 said:

Tuesday, November 8

 

This  is very hard to post on this until after this date...

 

 

 

 

Very important day for us and our hobby!

 

[CarNucopia]

4 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

 

Getting current owners to reconcile with the changing market will be the single biggest problem and it's going to make the market messy.

 

Estates and descendants will be even worse, because they don't have anything except the word of the deceased relative about values.

 

 

Matt,

 

Thanks for your replies. I think you probably have the most informed perspective on this board and I appreciate that you take the time to explain in detail what you see.

 

A point I'll add (as a guy who is shopping for a pre-war car) is sellers also need to adjust their assessment of the condition their car is in. I can't tell you how many cars I've looked at that where probably exactly what the seller described.....twenty years ago. The other thing I have seen is the relative of the deceased finally gives up on selling the car at the assumed value and sends it through an auction, which is where the real value (lower) comes to light.

[Larry Schramm]

Remember that "the value" of any car(item) is the price that willing seller will sell to a willing buyer.  No more and no less. 

 

If a vehicle does not sell in the open market for some time, then it is priced too high. 

 

When the price is lowered to the where someone will buy it, then it is the market value for the vehicle.

 

You see this also in the housing market where people just keep saying "this house is worth $xxxxx.xx dollars"  and it sits on the market for months or even years.

[Joe in Canada]

7 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

It isn't that there's nobody to buy your cars, it's that there's nobody to buy your cars at prices that you think they should command. Please don't take that the wrong way, but some cars are getting less valuable rather quickly. In fact, I bet almost all of our old cars are currently depreciating, some faster than others. Got a 1920s sedan? Falling like a rock. Obscure orphan brands? Likewise. But even blue chip cars are floundering in a measurable way: '57 Chevys, '34 Fords, Model As, and other formerly reliably marketable cars are finding fewer and fewer eager buyers.

 

What does it mean? Well, the primary thing is that you're going to have to adjust your expectations when you sell. If you bought an antique (note the word) car in the last 20 years, I bet it's worth about what you paid. Not much appreciation, and it might even be worth less depending on when you bought it . Full Classics are seeing gains, but 4-door sedans are going to remain affordable. '50s cars are popular, but they have to be the top models with lots of bling, not garden-variety family models. Your '52 Pontiac sedan is going to struggle to find a new home, regardless of how much you've spent and how cheap a price you put on it. And I should point out that I'm totally ignoring things like high-end European brands, Ferraris, and other six- and seven-figure collectables. They live in a different market than most of us, and that's OK. They are a tiny slice of the hobby, so small that it doesn't even really count as the same thing.

 

The good news, in my opinion, is that as prices drop, the cars will become appealing to new, younger buyers who formerly couldn't afford such things. They may see a $3500 1935 Oldsmobile sedan that they can drive and enjoy immediately and maybe they'll join the hobby that way. With luck, the whole cycle will start all over as they mature into more sophisticated collectors.

 

The cars will remain. Current owners are going to have to adjust to a market with falling prices and new owners will probably not look at these as "investments" the way we used to. They'll be fun that you can buy for a shorter time then move on without a profit, like a day pass to an amusement park or a video game.

 

Getting current owners to reconcile with the changing market will be the single biggest problem and it's going to make the market messy. There's going to be a lot of cognitive dissonance for the forseeable future as owners who have been in the hobby for decades and watched prices go up steadily all that time suddenly discover that what they know and what their guts tell them about old car values are completely invalid. They will have a hard time wrapping their heads around that fact and letting go at lower, new market-correct prices. Despite overwhelming evidence of declining demand and increasing supply, they're going to insist on raising prices, because, after all, that's how it has worked since the 1950s. Estates and descendants will be even worse, because they don't have anything except the word of the deceased relative about values.

 

There will still be cars, there will still be a hobby, but there's going to be a gradual reset that hopefully will pull younger people in just because the economics of joining will improve. I'm counting on it.

How is the brass and nickel car prices holding up if the 20s are dropping like a rock. The past few years you see less and less of them at the meets. If the roads are too fast for the early cars as I keep hearing are they becoming more show and display use only making them less desirable?

[Xander Wildeisen]

Cars are a mobile asset. If you have a house for sale, some one has to want to live right there. As countries grow economically, interest in collectibles will grow as well. Prices for desirable project cars have not gone down. A run of the mill sedan has never had a good value. there is always a market for quality in any make of car. I enjoy the cars as a hobby for myself, and that will not change. As a business owner, there are things around here that should be look at, to make it a better environment.  This hobby/industry has so many great things to offer, and I hope this area will grow with some of the automotive activity that is present in other parts of the country.

[trimacar]

15 hours ago, Steve_Mack_CT said:

David, forget everything I said, I just read an article stating the yellow Packards are the ones that will depreciate the quickest.  I will swap you my new car for that car before you lose your shirt on it - just call me...  

Yeah, that's what I've heard, figure the yellow Packard is worth so little now it's not worth the effort of trying to sell, but that's a good offer!

[trimacar]

9 hours ago, Joe in Canada said:

How is the brass and nickel car prices holding up if the 20s are dropping like a rock. The past few years you see less and less of them at the meets. If the roads are too fast for the early cars as I keep hearing are they becoming more show and display use only making them less desirable?

Brass cars have a strong market, but, as Matt has so correctly stated, at the right price.  There are a lot of brass cars for sale right now, at what I believe are inflated prices, and since they don't sell people think "oh, there's no market for these".  Proves Matt's point precisely.

 

High horsepower brass cars (50HP and up) command really good prices.  Low HP (20-25HP) are much weaker in price.  Good brass era Model T's (pre-1916) bring good money if correct, and there are very few of them that are truly correct.  Model T was and is the easiest car to change engines, running gear components, and so forth, so over the years many have become non-original.

 

Overall, nickel car pricing is very soft.  The exception, again, are the big cars, Mercer, Stutz, Locomobile, and so forth, which command good prices.  As Matt also stated, the run of the mill cars from 1916 to 1927 are very weak in price, with many going begging at 5 figures.

 

One thing that surprises me is how strong the prices are for Full Classic closed cars, including four door sedans,  of the 30's.  Almost every one I see, I think is overpriced, yet they sell and bring good money.

[alsancle]

The thing that happens with price is that you will see an over the top fresh restoration sell that probably cost 2x what the car is worth and it sets an unreasonable price point.  That is the number the next guy with a 30 year old restoration has in his head when he goes to sell.  Somebody said earlier that everybody thinks the condition of their car is what it actually was 20 years earlier.  I think this is true.

 

But the underlying fact (although I have no statistics to prove this) is that the pool of people that are both capable (either money or mechanical skills) and willing to own and maintain an antique car is at best static and most likely getting smaller.

 

Still,  I agree with Ed and the rest of you that it is just about having fun.  Worrying about who might want or take car of your car in 25 years is not productive.

 

[R Walling]

 Collecting cars is only a by-product to my real passion, restoring cars. I drive a different car many times a year to keep them exercised and the looks that I receive are reward enough for my collecting them.

 

 I can't wait for a nice clear day in the winter with dry roads in order to drive my topless old Corvette. The looks are priceless!

 

 Some will say that driving them lowers their value, but I know that it increases the value of my life!

Edited November 6, 2016 by Roger Walling
sp (see edit history)

[60FlatTop]

Matt's observations are good and before this thread started a friend and I had a similar discussion. We just like nice old cars that are not particularly iconic. We watch the market and have noted increased availability of good cars.

 

Car are a liability. You really have to fudge the accounting to make one a asset unless it is a quick sale. From around 1990 slightly into the 2000's there were a lot of 55 to 60ish early retirees. They had good paying jobs for the previous 40 years and were bailing out with a savings and investment accrual of $400,000 to $600,000. I saw a lot of the "Honey, we could just skim off $30,000 for the dream car I always wanted" and a lot of people made the market perk up. Many were not the life long skilled, self sustaining hobbyists. And found out pretty quick that old cars, for sure, weren't an asset. I saw a lot who asked me for advice with the goal of "just getting my money back". Those cars went unsold and a lot are still sitting in garage with a box of Christmas ornaments on top. The asking prices are still echoing through the hobby. And the early retirement incentives and investment portfolios haven't been so good over the last ten years.

 

There will always be a market. I think what we are losing is the competent gearheads. That drives the cost of ownership up. I posted a picture of the type of old guys I met during my first decades in the hobby. I went to a couple of cruise nights this season and really didn't want to fraternize with the owners I saw; baggy shorts, support hose, with Nike sneakers. Many had a little Steven Segal pony tail, an ear ring and knew nothing about cars other than what they saw on TV. Not that I wasn't entertained, I just wanted to distance myself. Dressed and looking like Archie Bunker didn't make me feel out of place, more the opposite. Maybe next year I will go to a few garden parties instead.

Bernie

Edited November 5, 2016 by 60FlatTop (see edit history)

[Xander Wildeisen]

I disagree with a lot of what you just said bernie. If people getting in to this hobby\industry get hooked up with quality people on the building end, or the dealer end. Then their investment money is looked out for and spent wisely. If then they care for the car and make slight improvements, most likely they can cash out of it down the road. If that same person hooks up with not so quality people, who view the new person as a chance to hose a uneducated individual. Then it sours the intire experience. And that person looses out on what could have been a great experience, and been exposed to a great car culture that is out there. I wonder why people say it is hard to find a good car shop you can trust?????? I wonder why people have a negative view and joke about dishonesty in car dealers????? What you see now going on in this country in all corners of it. Is nothing more then a end result of the road people have gone down.

[F&J]

22 minutes ago, Roger Walling said:

keep them exercised and the looks that I receive are reward enough for my collecting them.

I now rather drive, then spend untold hours working on them.   Countess waves and SMILING faces from motorists and pedestrians that don't even know "year or model".

 

and, no one cares if it's perfect or not. 

 

 

I live on a busy state road and only saw one stock prewar this year????  (not counting 10 Model A's in a group, the tail end one had 4 trailer lights, and red triangle reflectors)

 

where are they? 

[mercer09]

Bernie,

spot on. I agree with your take completely. I too distance myself and enjoy the "entertainment" of the crowd.

 

It is a diff world today and we all can choose to adjust or not, at whim. As I said earlier-who cares what the cars will bring when you are dead?

 

did you have fun?

 

the blond may have only been for one night, but again-was it fun?

[padgett]

"then it is priced too high" - or not advertised properly. For a sale to take place, the prospective buyer needs to know the car is for sale.

 

Have thought for years that if I ever sell everything will need to advertise in Hemmings and Car Property and not CL.

[CarNucopia]

On 11/3/2016 at 1:25 PM, 60FlatTop said:

Sometimes it is not the car that young people show no interest in. When the old fart that gets out of the car has this expression they aren't going to want anything to do with him or his car. And you can be sure he is going to find exactly the reception he is looking for.

 

If anyone is worried about the hobby you don't have to go far to find him. And you better do everything you can to make sure you are not him.

 

6 hours ago, 60FlatTop said:

I went to a couple of cruise nights this season and really didn't want to fraternize with the owners I saw; baggy shorts, support hose, with Nike sneakers. Many had a little Steven Segal pony tail, an ear ring and knew nothing about cars other than what they saw on TV.

 

Bernie, you have me confused. I agree with your first post that older guys shouldn't be judgemental and unwelcoming. But isn't that what you describe doing in your second post?

[1937hd45]

Has anyone had the time to run the numbers to see what the median age of the cars on the Hershey show field was this year? My guess is that most of the cars were manufactured after many "old AACA Members" joined the hobby. Bob

[trimacar]

1 hour ago, 1937hd45 said:

Has anyone had the time to run the numbers to see what the median age of the cars on the Hershey show field was this year? My guess is that most of the cars were manufactured after many "old AACA Members" joined the hobby. Bob

I think that median age, or average age, of cars brought to AACA meets, is meaningless in the overall discussion of whether there's interest in older (brass era, nickel era, Classic, pre-WWII) automobiles.

 

The 25 year rule, while makes sure there's always fresh cars and people to show cars, is pretty absurd when discussing "antique cars".  Next year, one could drive a 1992 Chevrolet Astro van onto the show field.  Well, guess that's an "antique car" to some, but seriously, it's not (and I guess I'll catch some heat for saying that).  Sure, you can show your car at 25 years, and even get antique plates for it (limited use in most states, very abused), but come on....

 

What I see happening, locally, is that when the local AACA event has Sunday "fun runs", people drive their minivan, or '86 Mustang, or anything that has air conditioning or is comfortable.  They may have great, older, cars at home, but that's too much trouble.....

 

The hobby is changing.  The 25 year rule keeps AACA alive and thriving, as it brings in new people on a continuous basis.  I think the AACA is a great organization.  I think the 25 year rule is ludicrous at this point in time, for an antique car club.

[Joe in Canada]

1 hour ago, trimacar said:

I think that median age, or average age, of cars brought to AACA meets, is meaningless in the overall discussion of whether there's interest in older (brass era, nickel era, Classic, pre-WWII) automobiles.

 

The 25 year rule, while makes sure there's always fresh cars and people to show cars, is pretty absurd when discussing "antique cars".  Next year, one could drive a 1992 Chevrolet Astro van onto the show field.  Well, guess that's an "antique car" to some, but seriously, it's not (and I guess I'll catch some heat for saying that).  Sure, you can show your car at 25 years, and even get antique plates for it (limited use in most states, very abused), but come on....

 

What I see happening, locally, is that when the local AACA event has Sunday "fun runs", people drive their minivan, or '86 Mustang, or anything that has air conditioning or is comfortable.  They may have great, older, cars at home, but that's too much trouble.....

 

The hobby is changing.  The 25 year rule keeps AACA alive and thriving, as it brings in new people on a continuous basis.  I think the AACA is a great organization.  I think the 25 year rule is ludicrous at this point in time, for an antique car club.

Now what was a 25 year old car when you first got in the hobby and do you consider that an antique and good enough for a club event?

But I know what you are saying and have the same feelings. We may have to change the name of the car club from AACA to ADDACA  Antique and Daily Driver Automobile Club of America. But all we are doing is showing our age!

Edited November 6, 2016 by Joe in Canada (see edit history)

[1912Staver]

 {In a similar vein to Trimacar's comment but at the opposite end of the spectrum is the HCCA's 1915 or older cut off.  This year you have 100 year old cars ; 1916 manufacture, that are not old enough for eligibility. When the club started the oldest cars on the planet were barely 40 years old.  An inverse absurdity of the 25 year old "vintage" designation.

 

I first got in to the hobby in about 1975 as a teenager.y father had taken me to several old car events prior to 1975 but always as a spectator as he has always been an old car fan but not owner.  At that time a 1950 car was a pretty old car . Quite a few were still in the area , but most were parked and not in regular use. Even late 1950's cars were becoming uncommon as regular drivers.

 

Greg in Canada

Edited November 6, 2016 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[Larry Schramm]

I think that next year I might bring the '84 VW camper to one of the shows.  It is now 33 years old.

 

When I bring the Buick truck,  the common question is what year is you Model T?  To the general public, I think everything prior to 1920 is a Model T.  Especially if it is black.

[Joe in Canada]

12 minutes ago, 1912Staver said:

In a similar vein to Trimacar's comment but at the opposite end of the spectrum is the HCCA's 1915 or older cut off.  This year you have 100 year old cars ; 1916 manufacture, that are not old enough for eligibility. When the club started the oldest cars on the planet were barely 40 years old.  An inverse absurdity of the 25 year old "vintage" designation.

 

Greg in Canada

But Greg did you notice CCCA extended their criteria back to 1916 on some of their models like Cadillac for example.  Also the Chevy and Cad LaSalle Club is excepting modified cars I believe or are about to.  Everyone is bending their own rules trying to shore up a faltering membership.

Edited November 6, 2016 by Joe in Canada (see edit history)

[1912Staver]

Hi Joe, I can't say I had noticed however I don't follow CCCA news very closely. Lots of classics I like {a lot !} 1920's Stutz , Marmon , Mercer . Kissel, etc. but very few examples here in the Pacific N.W. and none in my price range.

 

Greg in Canada

[mike6024]

I don't consider anything 1950's or newer "antique." Pre-War has a different character, no power steering, etc.

 

This I find interesting:

The Nickel Era Touring Registry, an affiliated Register of the Horseless Carriage Club of America, accepts nickel era vehicles from 1912-1929

http://www.nickelregistry.hcca.org/

They had a tour sort of in my area, northern California. I've driven around that area. Did some surveying in the hills around there.

August 15-18 2016
Tour to the Land of the Giants
Fortuna, CA.

Best weather on the Pacific coast at this time for 4 days of touring. Scenic Redwood Highway and coastal towns with top down driving if you have an open car; but closed cars are nice too. Bring your kids or grand kids..

 

 

[Joe in Canada]

26 minutes ago, 1912Staver said:

Hi Joe, I can't say I had noticed however I don't follow CCCA news very closely. Lots of classics I like {a lot !} 1920's Stutz , Marmon , Mercer . Kissel, etc. but very few examples here in the Pacific N.W. and none in my price range.

 

Greg in Canada

Two of us hosted a vintage tour back in Aug. and this fellow registered and brought a beautiful restored 1921 Marmon. Plus he has two restored Stanley's at home  I had never seen in the area. His wife emailed me that they had a great time and wants to be notified of any upcoming tours next year. Three vintage tours set for next year and I am only working on one this time. Will see if they bring something different so I will have to let them know. So my point is you just never know what is parked around the corner.   

Edited November 6, 2016 by Joe in Canada (see edit history)

[1935Packard]

On 11/3/2016 at 1:18 PM, alsancle said:

 

This was always my perspective.  But now I believe the lower end cars will eventually get parted out or crushed as they stop running and the cost to get them going doesn't make sense.   The everyday mechanical skills that everybody had 50 years ago are diminishing greatly in younger generations.

 

As somebody that gets about a dozen different club newsletters and publications every month I will say it it is sobering looking at the pictures of the awards banquets.

 

I think that's right.  This is why I think it's important for car clubs to teach new, younger, and prospective members how to do basic repairs.  For the most part, older members know these things because they learned them when they were young.  But younger members have no idea how to do them because no one ever taught them.  It makes the hobby either expensive (if the new members will end up paying a professional shop to do the work) or very intimidating (if the new members try to learn enough to do the work themselves.)  Oh, and for the record, I'm a younger member who was never taught anything; that's not meant to be criticism of anyone.

[nick8086]

Here is a kaiser meet in 1992. Hosted by us..

I made a trip to KS in 2016.. 33 members went  and not one car.. at the show...

 

I am Glad I did not take one.. I would have best of show.. longest distance , etc..

 

 

 

 

 

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Edited November 6, 2016 by nick8086 (see edit history)