Rusty_OToole

T head engines who used them?

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The 1902 build date seems suspect, engines were for the most part still quite primitive in 1902. Something in the 1908 - 1912 range seems more likely. Nationals were quite advanced but if this engine really dates to 1902 they would have definitely been at the top of the game, and easily on par with the best from Europe.

 

Greg in Canada

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I'd say it's more than suspect. It's just wrong. I very much doubt anyone would have put a 1902 engine in any 1908 race car. In '02 must cars, even the famous Mercedes and Panhards, had atmospheric inlet valves. It's more likely the person who wrote the description had no objective knowledge of engine development and just repeated something they had been told by someone equally ignorant of the subject.

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Did a bit of quick research. No doubt there is more to be found.  Rose Brothers had some Rose National cars built -   http://www.gracesguide.co.uk/Rose_Brothers   - one can be seen here   -   

Rose National Car at "Summer Hill" in Gainsborough.

and another one  -  

1905 Rose Car1905 Rose Car

It would seem the story from the Lincoln Museum is also seen here in a 1977 issue of Motor Sport magazine   -    http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/archive/article/january-1977/35/out-past   -   read into it what you will.

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Nice cars and obviously no connection with the U.S. National . The engine has strong similarity to American produced "T" heads and led me to believe it was a product of the U.S. National Co.  I still think the 1902 date it too early by 5 years or so. I agree with JV Puleo about the valves , also common in 1902 was "make and break " ignition. Spark plugs were a rarity . Bosch claims to have invented the spark plug with 1902 given as the date. Their history page shows a plug that is flange mounted so it can replace a typical igniter of the day. A more typical spark plug that screws in directly is shown as a 1903 development, but it is still a pretty early plug.

http://de.bosch-automotive.com/en/parts_and_accessories/service_parts_1/spark_plugs_1/history_1/history_1

Greg in Canada

Edited by 1912Staver (see edit history)

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On 10/27/2016 at 3:33 AM, nzcarnerd said:

 

 

The T head Simplex influenced the design of the American LaFrance four and six cylinder fire trucks which remained in production through to the mid 1920s (or later??).

 

As  late a 1930 that I know for certain. 

A friend's 30 La France 6 cyl  1000gpm pumper had three, two-cylinder T head jugs. Great big heavy things, too. Took he and I just to carry one jug.  And we had to lift them up onto the engine base using two separate block and tackle rigged between two trees in his driveway.

 

Paul 

Edited by PFitz (see edit history)

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5 minutes ago, PFitz said:

As  late a 1930 that I know for certain. 

A friend's 30 La France 6 cyl  1000gpm pumper had three, two-cylinder T head jugs. Great big heavy things, too. Took he and I just to carry one jug.  And we had to lift them up onto the engine base using two separate block and tackle rigged between two trees in his driveway.

 

Paul 

Paul , does that qualify you to be  dubbed a  Shade Tree Mechanic" Jus having some fun.... Happy New Year Paul!

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Dear fellow car nuts, 

 

It's time for me to confess ignorance here. Could someone show me a diagram of a "T-head" engine, please? I saw several photos in this post which showed cylinder heads shaped like a "T," so I get that part, But, why? Where were the valves in such an engine design? 

 

Sorry to expose my ignorance. But my curiosity is stronger than my pride. 

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Thanks, Zepher! 

 

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1 hour ago, zepher said:

Single-cylinder_T-head_engine_(Autocar_H

Is it just me, or is the T of the T-head turned 90 degrees from correct here?  The connecting rod will hit the cam in this image. 
 

t heads have two camshafts, one for intake and one for exhaust. 

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My 1914 Premier Z2 is a T head. 415 cu.in. 2 valves per cylinder

Ken

P1060363 (Large).JPG

P1060379 (Large).JPG

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41 minutes ago, gossp said:

Is it just me, or is the T of the T-head turned 90 degrees from correct here?  The connecting rod will hit the cam in this image. 
 

t heads have two camshafts, one for intake and one for exhaust. 

More detailed illustration.

 

T-head_single-cylinder_Otto_engine_(Army

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8 hours ago, KLF said:

My 1914 Premier Z2 is a T head. 415 cu.in. 2 valves per cylinder

Ken

P1060363 (Large).JPG

P1060379 (Large).JPG

KLF, thanks for the photo. So...are the spark plugs on your motor located directly over top of the intake valves, I guess? 

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A few " T " heads used dual plugs, one over each valve . But a single plug over the intake is the most common arrangement. A central plug is relatively rare on automotive  " T " heads. Most engines had a non - detachable head with a  central water jacket connection. Normal practice placed the sparkplug in one of the valve plugs made necessary by the non-detachable design. A few later  "T" heads had detachable heads that allowed a central spark plug.

 

Greg in Canada

Edited by 1912Staver (see edit history)
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Here is a restored version of what my basket case will hopefully look like some day. Teetor Hartley " T " head in a Staver Chicago. This one has a dual plug set up. Mine is a single plug , but it is really only a mater of fitting the correct Magneto and threading the other set of head plugs for the additional spark plugs to convert to dual plug. Some of the premium makes used a coil ignition for one set of sparkplugs and a Magneto for the other set.

 

Greg in Canada

IMG_2927.JPG

Edited by 1912Staver (see edit history)
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51 minutes ago, 1912Staver said:

Here is a restored version of what my basket case will hopefully look like some day. Teetor Hartley " T " head in a Staver Chicago. This one has a dual plug set up. Mine is a single plug , but it is really only a mater of fitting the correct Magneto and threading the other set of head plugs for the additional spark plugs to convert to dual plug. Some of the premium makes used a coil ignition for one set of sparkplugs and a Magneto for the other set.

 

Greg in Canada

Wow, fascinating info. Thanks, Greg. 

 

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