RivNut

Rivieras for sale on local Craigslist, eBay, etc.

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2 hours ago, cjp69 said:

66 GS

https://sanantonio.craigslist.org/cto/d/san-antonio-1966-buick-riviera-gs-gran/7079272762.html

 

1966 BUICK RIVIERA GS GRAN SPORT DUAL CARBS - $30000 (bandera rd & eckhert rd)

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© craigslist - Map data © OpenStreetMap

(google map)

1966 buick riviera gs

condition: excellent
cylinders: 8 cylinders
drive: rwd
fuel: gas
odometer: 50000
paint color: white
size: full-size
title status: clean
transmission: automatic
type: coupe

i'm selling a stunning 1966 buick riviera gs. she's a beauty, but not perfect. this matching numbers riv starts right up, runs strong, shifts smoothly, and has a nice rumble through the dual exhaust. the gs comes with the original documents including the hard-to-find build sheet, protect-o-plate, order form, invoice, owner's manual, and more. here is a list of some of the options equipped on the gs:
A9 - riviera high performance package, gran sport
b4 - operating console with shifter
d2 - am radio with electric antenna
i5 - air conditioning - auto climate control
k2 - cornering lights
l1 - soft-ray glass
m7 - rear window defroster
n2 - 4-note horn
o5 - remote control side mirror
p1 - carpet savers and handy mats (rough condition)
q5 - 4-way tilt, adjustable steering wheel
r1 - power windows
s6 - electro cruise control (not working)
t2 - vacuum operated door locks
v2 - factory chrome plated wheels (light rust)
1b - reclining passenger seat w/ headrests
custom trim bucket seats
factory installed dashboard compass
this mw code car is equipped with the v8, 425 nailhead with dual rochester quadrajet carburetors and offenhauser intake. this has the super turbine 400, 3-speed automatic transmission (bs code). this was repainted in 2017, has a 2019 battery, and the tires are in excellent condition. the odometer reads right at 50,000 miles, but we're not sure if this is correct. as stated earlier, she's in excellent condition, but not perfect. here is a list of items that may or may not need attention (doesn't affect the drivability);
cracked steering collar, some fading to small areas on the carpet, light rust on a couple of the chrome wheels, light, superficial surface rust to engine bay, interior door closure handle on driver side is lifting, crazing to the woodgrain trim, cruise control not working (might be the vacuum line), air conditioner needs a shot of freon. we recently purchased this from the 2nd owner. the first owner (person that special-ordered the car) was an engineer that was on the building committee for the towers of america in san antonio. text 210.788.055nine

Wish that there had been pictures of the engine posted.  I've never seen the dual Rochester Quadrajet intake in person but they do exist.  I'm curious as to whether this is in fact as stated or whether a couple of Rochester 4GCs have not been identified incorrectly.  Lots of carburetion if in fact it is stated correctly.

 

images.jpeg.8c9772614aae10a481f99e9079a25606.jpeg

 

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3 hours ago, RivNut said:

Wish that there had been pictures of the engine posted.  I've never seen the dual Rochester Quadrajet intake in person but they do exist.  I'm curious as to whether this is in fact as stated or whether a couple of Rochester 4GCs have not been identified incorrectly.  Lots of carburetion if in fact it is stated correctly.

 

 

Gonna need a hood scoop.


And we gotta be impressed by the “excellent” yet bent front and rear bumpers.

I do hope they get 30G however.

All boats rise with the tide.

 

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The factory dual quad engine in 1966 should have a “MZ” code.  Not many were made and they were offered for a limited time (mid production).  The rest had a single carb but dealers could convert to dual quads if desired.  Those do not have the MZ code.

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25 minutes ago, Pat Curran said:

The factory dual quad engine in 1966 should have a “MZ” code.  Not many were made and they were offered for a limited time (mid production).  The rest had a single carb but dealers could convert to dual quads if desired.  Those do not have the MZ code.

 

I know the factory MZ numbers are known. Does anybody have any feel for how common the dealer conversion to dual quads was?

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179 MZ codes.  Dealer conversions would be really difficult to get a handle on.  Was the conversion done before or after delivery or perhaps sometime down the road or by a 2nd or 3rd owner.  Or perhaps it's an owner conversion done with accumulated parts.

 

One thing I'd like to know.  Did the "conversion" also include the A8 distributor?  Didn't the OE A8 engine also include a different diameter pulley for the A/C compressor because of the 3.42 rear gear?

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68 GS

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1968-Buick-Riviera-GS/114125563483?hash=item1a9269e65b:g:Wv8AAOSwKS9eUE0D

 

 

Screen Shot 2020-02-21 at 6.56.12 PM.png

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10 hours ago, RivNut said:

179 MZ codes.  Dealer conversions would be really difficult to get a handle on.  Was the conversion done before or after delivery or perhaps sometime down the road or by a 2nd or 3rd owner.  Or perhaps it's an owner conversion done with accumulated parts.

 

One thing I'd like to know.  Did the "conversion" also include the A8 distributor?  Didn't the OE A8 engine also include a different diameter pulley for the A/C compressor because of the 3.42 rear gear?

Ed is correct.  Unless someone had the original receipts for a dealer conversion it would be hard to come up with a number.  You could also buy the parts over the counter and do the conversion yourself.  Many Buick dealers from back in the day have closed or have been bought so records are scarce.

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4 hours ago, Pat Curran said:

Ed is correct.  Unless someone had the original receipts for a dealer conversion it would be hard to come up with a number.  You could also buy the parts over the counter and do the conversion yourself.  Many Buick dealers from back in the day have closed or have been bought so records are scarce.

 

I understand that getting real numbers on the dealer conversions to a dual quad is impossible. What I'm really asking is how common folks think that was back in the day—did tons of Riviera owners do this or was it fairly unusual?

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32 minutes ago, J3Studio said:

 

I understand that getting real numbers on the dealer conversions to a dual quad is impossible. What I'm really asking is how common folks think that was back in the day—did tons of Riviera owners do this or was it fairly unusual?

I would guess that it was very uncommon, similar to Yenko Chevy conversions. Gas prices in the mid to high 20s and 70 mph speed limits not withstanding, the factory configuration performed well enough for most applications. My 69 was converted to Stage 1 specs by the local dealer and original owner (my crazy uncle) for pulling boats from Florida to Canada and participating in the Cannonball  Run. I’ve never heard of any similar conversions. And many of us know what happened to gas prices and speed limits in the 70s.

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I've told this story before but I'll tell it again for the "newbies" out there. 

 

A friend of mine in Denver had two identical 66 Gran Sports at the same time. But one was equipped with the single Quadrajet four barrel and the other was equipped with the dealer installed dual four barrels.  Chris would take both cars to the local drag race track.  Both cars ran consistently within their own times / mph.  The single four barrel car would consistently finish with a quicker elapsed time but the dual four barrel car, although not as quick, would be traveling faster at the end of the track.  

 

So if you were an in town stop light to stop light guy, or spent some time at the track, you would want a single four barrel car.  If you wanted to compete in the Cannon Ball Baker sea to shining sea race, you'd probably want the dual four barrel car.  

 

In my own mind, the dual four barrel cars are a great conversation piece but don't provide the improved performance that would show up in day to day driving. 

 

I would like to see the same contest between two 65s; one with the dual four barrel carbs and the other with the single Carter AFB.  The Rochester Quadrajet is rated at 750 cfm whereas the Carter AFB is rated at 625 cfm.  The 1250 cfm didn't help in the 66s, what about the 65s?

Edited by RivNut (see edit history)
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It was interesting that the dual quad engine produced 20 more horses but torque remained the same at 465 FT/LBS. The dual quad engine certainly provided eye candy under the hood just like a tri-power Pontiac but it all depends on what you want in the end.

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8 hours ago, RivNut said:

I've told this story before but I'll tell it again for the "newbies" out there. 

 

A friend of mine in Denver had two identical 66 Gran Sports at the same time. But one was equipped with the single Quadrajet four barrel and the other was equipped with the dealer installed dual four barrels.  Chris would take both cars to the local drag race track.  Both cars ran consistently within their own times / mph.  The single four barrel car would consistently finish with a quicker elapsed time but the dual four barrel car, although not as quick, would be traveling faster at the end of the track.  

 

So if you were an in town stop light to stop light guy, or spent some time at the track, you would want a single four barrel car.  If you wanted to compete in the Cannon Ball Baker sea to shining sea race, you'd probably want the dual four barrel car.  

 

In my own mind, the dual four barrel cars are a great conversation piece but don't provide the improved performance that would show up in day to day driving. 

 

I would like to see the same contest between two 65s; one with the dual four barrel carbs and the other with the single Carter AFB.  The Rochester Quadrajet is rated at 750 cfm whereas the Carter AFB is rated at 625 cfm.  The 1250 cfm didn't help in the 66s, what about the 65s?

 

I, of course have attempted to investigate the dual quad phenomena with the 66 as an owner of a dual quad 66 GS without any engine code stamping. 

 

Don't forget that the MZ engines also had a hotter cam. Im curious if the dealerships ever installed this component of the package, or the differentiated distributor setup? How would a dual quad 66 MZ run against a non-factory dual quad is another question. 

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In an older Riview, Denny Manner addressed the differences in the camshafts used in the nailhead engines.  Here are a couple of quotes that everyone should find interesting. If you're not familiar with the name of Denny Manner, you should go back to the class entitled "Nailhead basics 101."

 

Here's what Mr. Manners had to say. "All 1964 - 1966 425 dual 4bbl Factory-produced engines used the original 425 camshaft timing."  There was not a 'hotter' cam for the dual four barrel carb equipped cars - either factory or over the counter.  The page that I scanned is not a JPEG file so I can't copy and paste it here, sorry..  But when I compare the eleven specs for that single four barrel cam to those same eleven specs of the 64 - 66 dual four barrel cam, all eleven specs are exactly the same.  

 

 

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1 hour ago, RivNut said:

In an older Riview, Denny Manner addressed the differences in the camshafts used in the nailhead engines.  Here are a couple of quotes that everyone should find interesting. If you're not familiar with the name of Denny Manner, you should go back to the class entitled "Nailhead basics 101."

 

Here's what Mr. Manners had to say. "All 1964 - 1966 425 dual 4bbl Factory-produced engines used the original 425 camshaft timing."  There was not a 'hotter' cam for the dual four barrel carb equipped cars - either factory or over the counter.  The page that I scanned is not a JPEG file so I can't copy and paste it here, sorry..  But when I compare the eleven specs for that single four barrel cam to those same eleven specs of the 64 - 66 dual four barrel cam, all eleven specs are exactly the same.  

 

 

 

Well thats news to me. So thanks. I thought the 64-66 dual quad cams are the same, yet 66 non-dual quad cam was different?...

Edited by Chimera (see edit history)

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Not as bad as the 'urban myth' that was floating around on the V8Buick forum some time ago.  The part number for the dual quad cam ends in 091.  If you're a SBC fan, you would recognize  091 as a cam designed by Zora Arkus-Duntov for the small block Chevy. It was commonly known as a "Duntov 091." A few Buick guys figured the 091 was a signature of Duntov and therefore the Buick cam must have the same pedigree. WRONG 😎

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7 hours ago, RivNut said:

In an older Riview, Denny Manner addressed the differences in the camshafts used in the nailhead engines.  Here are a couple of quotes that everyone should find interesting. If you're not familiar with the name of Denny Manner, you should go back to the class entitled "Nailhead basics 101."

 

Here's what Mr. Manners had to say. "All 1964 - 1966 425 dual 4bbl Factory-produced engines used the original 425 camshaft timing."  There was not a 'hotter' cam for the dual four barrel carb equipped cars - either factory or over the counter.  The page that I scanned is not a JPEG file so I can't copy and paste it here, sorry..  But when I compare the eleven specs for that single four barrel cam to those same eleven specs of the 64 - 66 dual four barrel cam, all eleven specs are exactly the same.  

 

 

 

Perhaps a bit of misunderstanding of Dennys article or mincing or words Ed. The dual quad 091 was in fact hotter than the standard 425 64-66 single barrel carb cam. Cam "timing" was the same which refers to the amount a cam is advanced or retarded from straight up. The lift and duration was more agressive. Then for 66 the standard 425 single carb cam had drastically different lobe spacing and timing than the standard single carb 64/65 cam to smooth the idle.

 

The 1963 425 cam however, DID have the same exact specs as the dual quad 091.

 

If anyone wants to reference the chart from the Denny Manner article Ed referenced, check Riview 5-1-page 16

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69 GS

 

https://www.seaviewbuickgmc.com/seattle-used-cars/detail/1969-Buick-Riviera/1247/0000494879H941057

 

 

Screen Shot 2020-02-23 at 3.43.50 AM.png

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On 2/21/2020 at 5:44 PM, J3Studio said:

 

I know the factory MZ numbers are known. Does anybody have any feel for how common the dealer conversion to dual quads was?

  No one really knows how many dealer conversions occurred AS FAR AS I KNOW. I can add that I have a very, very rare zone letter which details the correct parts and procedure from Buick engineering to install the Super Wildcat package on both the Skylark and Riviera GS models. So the information was out there and the conversion was supported from corporate Buick.

  There was also frequent mention of the Super Wildcat dealer conversion in magazine articles from back in the day...so the conversion may have occurred more often than expected as compared to other, more obscure dealer installed options.

Tom Mooney

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18 hours ago, Rivdrivn said:

I would guess that it was very uncommon, similar to Yenko Chevy conversions. Gas prices in the mid to high 20s and 70 mph speed limits not withstanding, the factory configuration performed well enough for most applications. My 69 was converted to Stage 1 specs by the local dealer and original owner (my crazy uncle) for pulling boats from Florida to Canada and participating in the Cannonball  Run. I’ve never heard of any similar conversions. And many of us know what happened to gas prices and speed limits in the 70s.

Hi Steve,

  The parts books present the Stage 1 components prominently so there may have been quite a few packages which passed across the dealer parts counters.

Tom

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9 hours ago, Chimera said:

 

I, of course have attempted to investigate the dual quad phenomena with the 66 as an owner of a dual quad 66 GS without any engine code stamping. 

 

Don't forget that the MZ engines also had a hotter cam. Im curious if the dealerships ever installed this component of the package, or the differentiated distributor setup? How would a dual quad 66 MZ run against a non-factory dual quad is another question. 

Hi Gabe,

  The "091" cam was prominently displayed on paper as a component of the Super Wildcat package in `66. The factory "detuned" the other `66 cams in an attempt to obtain a smoother idle quality.

  But keep in mind it is much more labor intensive to R & R the cam as compared to the rest of the dual quad package when the engine is installed in the vehicle. In addition to the extra labor expense the dealer would also run the risk that the customer might complain about the degraded idle quality as compared to the former cam. In my experience the standard `66 has a much smoother idle quality as compared to the "091". I think it is very plausible that the dealer might be tempted to skip swapping out the original cam for the "091" cam.

Tom

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8 hours ago, RivNut said:

In an older Riview, Denny Manner addressed the differences in the camshafts used in the nailhead engines.  Here are a couple of quotes that everyone should find interesting. If you're not familiar with the name of Denny Manner, you should go back to the class entitled "Nailhead basics 101."

 

Here's what Mr. Manners had to say. "All 1964 - 1966 425 dual 4bbl Factory-produced engines used the original 425 camshaft timing."  There was not a 'hotter' cam for the dual four barrel carb equipped cars - either factory or over the counter.  The page that I scanned is not a JPEG file so I can't copy and paste it here, sorry..  But when I compare the eleven specs for that single four barrel cam to those same eleven specs of the 64 - 66 dual four barrel cam, all eleven specs are exactly the same.  

 

 

That is incorrect for the `66 model year. Buick engineering detuned the `66 Nailhead cams to obtain a smoother idle. The `64-`66 dual quad cam IS a hotter cam when compared to the standard `66 cam...at least that is what Dennis has related to me in person,

Tom Mooney

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8 hours ago, Chimera said:

 

Well thats news to me. So thanks. I thought the 64-66 dual quad cams are the same, yet 66 non-dual quad cam was different?...

That`s correct

Tom

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