chistech

32' Oldsmobile Deluxe Convertible Roadster

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those pillar posts look those awesome.  I say that as I sure do know what a chore it is when a nice survivor with pretty good wood, sometimes has screws for hardware that are stripped out.  Looks like a wicked strong framework.  Nice job

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On 17/06/2017 at 10:51 AM, JV Puleo said:

I don't think it is realistic to call that a "fault." It is a design issue.

 

You are correct, fault is not the correct word, as the design does work. What I was trying to say was the design could have been improved, however many ideas tried in the early days of motoring were the same. It is only as knowledge and technology has improved we know now know what we do.

Even RIley's have their flaws. :-)

Matthew

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Knocked a couple small dents out of the passenger side of the cowl and then fitted the cowl onto the new wood. I was lucky and able to use the hinge pillars and the cowl wood with just a small repair to the lower portion of the driver's side pillar. All the holes drilled in the new new sills lined up without issue on the cowl attachment points. The lower cowl is lining up perfectly with the rocker panels so all appears correct to proceed. The new floor board and original, to the car, toe board, are fitting together perfectly. The cabin seems pretty spacious looking at it and hopefully will be comfortable for my 6' 1" frame. The rumble seat gutter was missing one of the corner triangle sheet metal pieces that has the lid bumper in it. I made up the new corner piece out of thick sheet metal, spot welded it in place,  turned a matching nutsert  on my lathe, and installed it in the corner piece. . I used my big vice to expand the skirt of the nutsert using a center from my lathe to start the skirt. Once it was expanded, the good old 3lb hammer finished flattening it out. Matches the other side and no one will ever know it's not original to car. Fit the lower metal under the rumble lid and will need to tweak it just slightly to lessen the gap in some area and widen them in others. Starting to look like a car again.

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4 minutes ago, chistech said:

The cabin seems pretty spacious looking at it and hopefully will be comfortable for my 6' 1" frame.

I build and PLAN out Old Time 50s style circa 1930-32 Hot Rods for others.  I am good at what I do, as far as making sure a person of most sizes can fit in each car...from the first part of the build.  I do "multi fit" for one reason; so if you let others drive you, if you are tired,...then any person can also get comfy.

 

Pics on the net sure can be deceiving, but I am positive from your cabin pic, that you will be more than thrilled at 6-1, and no matter of chunky or thin.  It just looks "way more room" that most early 30s roadster or conv style. That Olds door width is also larger than Fords of the era, as well...another important thing.

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The doorway measures 29 3/4" if I remember right. I measured both tonight to make sure they were the same but for the life of me can't for sure remember the measurement. It does look very spacious to me also. The body is basically the same as all the GM cabriolets of that era 30-32'. The Olds had a slightly higher body than the Chevy but the door width is the same. Need to get new lower cushion spring set for the front and both the springs with frames for the rumble lid.

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Ok, have to admit, I didn't sleep to well last night. I worked on the Olds last night and decided to put the doors on. OH NO! The passenger side wasn't too bad but the driver's side had a huge gap. The driver's door was kind of lined up with the lines of the car but was gapped about 5/8" and the passenger door, though closer gapped, dragged on the sill! It was late and decided to call it quits for the night. The whole time in bed instead of sleeping, I kept thinking I made something wrong. I tried to get it out of my mind and sleep but couldn't. When I woke at 6am, I immediately started thinking about it again. Lying in bed I decided I would call Jim Rodman of Autowood or Bill Cartwright of KC Wood and ask them what the width of the pillar mortises in the sills should be. I decided I'd probably have a better chance of reaching Bill than Jim so I tried and Bill answered. When I told him my dilemma and told him I copied my originals, he said the originals have to be right and there is slop in the mortises for fudging the assembly when needed. He urged me to move the pillars to the insides of the mortises and check the door gaps then.

 

Looking at the mortises in the main sills, the front hinge pillars have a lot of room to move (about a 1/4"). The latch pillars, because I rebuilt the framework piece by piece, ended up being as far forward in the pillar mortises as they could. The latch pillar mortises do not have the gap or extra width that the hinge pillars have. Getting into it deeper today, I first took the doors off and tried to avoid thinking about the gaps by working the latch pillars themselves. I worked them in areas with a hand chisel that showed contact with the pillar covers. I also found the pillars were a little too low in the sill. Luckily I never tried to screw them in or attach the metal support brackets until I could line up the body skin with the latch pillar covers. How I lined up the body skin was by the original nailing holes that go through the corners of the latch covers and through the covered corners of the body skin where it wraps around the edges of the latch pillars. Turns out the passenger side was a 1/4" low and the driver's side about 1/8 to 3/16" low. It took a bottle jack under the belt rail end where it's bolted to the back of the latch pillar and a few pumps to get the wood up where it belonged. All this fresh wood and tight joints make for a pretty sturdy frame not easily moved if needed. Of course moving all this caused the upper corner of the golf bag door to stick out some (which probably was because I had made one new piece of the outer framework around the opening and hadn't had the body skin on since.) Once the body skin was in it's proper location, the bottom of the latch pillars were screwed into the mail sill with just one screw because of the body skin covers one half of the lower part of the pillar. When the skin comes back off, the bottom of the pillar will get fully screwed in. I will also install the metal pillar supports to shore all the pillars up before the sheet metal all comes back off.

 

Back to the door gaps: With the car all set from the latch pillars back, I decided to pull the cowl and move the hinge pillars to the back of the mortises to lessen the threshold measurement..I am using the original hinge pillars with driver's side being repaired just slightly so the metal support brackets were screwed to the pillars to get the correct height right back in the original holes. I know this had to be right! I then made up shims to tightly fill any gap in the mortises for the hinge pillars. I put glue on the shims and tapped them into place firmly putting the face of the hinge pillars to the rearmost part of the mortise. I then realized the best way to measure this gap is to put the metal rocker cover in place and low and behold, it just fit with the ends almost touching the pillars. OK, I know the opening has to be right now. I then used a big square to check the pillars and they are square to the sill. I had previously checked the latch pillars and they too are perfectly square to the sill. I also checked the face of the parcel tray to the inside of the belt line wood to where it connects to the latch pillar. I was amazed to find this whole assemble perfectly square and I hadn't checked it during assembly. What the hell was I thinking! I should have for sure. Wood working 101!

 

With the shims and support brackets in place, the bottoms of the hinge pillars were screwed in place into the sill. I then started to put the cowl back on. I can tell you it's a chore to get the cowl over the wood when the edges have been bent over as they were originally straight when the cowl was first put in place 85yrs ago. With the cowl back on and massaged over the wood frame and pillars, I was able to get all the edges in place on the pillars and at the bottom of the sills where the metal gets nailed. I then bolted the cowl to the sill with the metal cowl support brackets and put in all original fasteners to make sure the cowl was exactly where it should be. My brother had come over with a hydraulic pump coupling that had a seized set screw in it so I could bore it out on the vertical miller and re-tap it, so when we were done with that, he helped me hang the doors again. Well, I CAN SLEEP AGAIN! Yup, the doors are fitting much better. The passenger door is still too far forward because years ago the hinges were slightly bent moving the door closer to the cowl and closing the door gap to the point that it hits the metal. Probably an old fix to a sagging door way back. The driver's doors is also a little far forward but not much and is pretty good. The bottoms of the doors line up well with a quick 1/8" shim on the passenger side to line up the lines of the body.

 

THANKS GOD THAT'S BEEN FIXED! Now the doors will need some wood and metal work but nothing too much. Time to move on.

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Edited by chistech (see edit history)
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16 minutes ago, chistech said:

Ok,

Hi, I just did a quote so you'd get an alert.

 

I speak without disrespect as I hope ypu know.

 

I cannot sort these pics as to if you show before as well as after, but I think I see a lot of before?  with bad gaps?

 

anyways, I know I must have said I was not thinking your original plan had any sort of proof that it will work, I more or less knew it could not...and could go way wrong.  Only saying this as decades in door gap obsession.  I wish could be there while you pointed to what you did and mean about redoing the dovetails, as I still have so little confidence that I can sail right through mine without any issues.

 

that is because I NEVER did major wood repairs like yours.....  just a piece or two, which means ZERO experience.

 

So, all I can hope for is to have YOU still be online the day I really have a question, or make a really bad move.. Thanks for your thread...it will help others for years by using the search feature.  WE all need to see errors appear, rather than only all success, or looks like that, only because people might not admit they did have to redo a joint.. Good job on that issue as well.

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The pictures are after the moving of the pillars. The gaps to the rear look wide on the passenger side for the reason the door is too far forward because the hinges have been bent. The driver's door is just a smidge wide and can easily be shimmed to be corrected. While the outside gap appears wide, the inside where the latch will be on the striker is not. These cars seem to have a wider line at the latch than the closed cars. Not sure if it's because the thickness of the door combined with the curve of the door. Like I said, they still need some massaging but they will never be like a Mercedes SL600 or a BMW. LOL The rocker panel fits between the pillars and they both just fit so the pillars cannot be any closer. The gaps are straight and not angled so the pillars are square. Might just be the nature of the beast.

 

NOTE: I realize I should have said I have NOT fixed the gaps yet, just got the pillars where they belong and the doors hung so they are no longer dragging. Both doors have to be moved back at the hinges to open the front gaps and close the rear gaps.

Edited by chistech
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They used to sell a tool for aligning doors with external hinges,it was just apiece of wire with about a 1 1//2 inch pieces of round stock aluminum about 2 inches long on one end and a piece of 1inch round stock about 2 inches long on  the other,a word of caution here once the sheet metal I properly aligned put the. Grille she'll and hood on some times the cowl at the lower sill will need adjusted and that will throw the door gaps off,some times a real bear,I've just started the wood work on my moon roadster when I started I had brown wavy hair now what's left is gray,good luck I'm rooting for you.  Dave

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14 minutes ago, chistech said:

NOTE: I realize I should have said I have NOT fixed the gaps yet, just got the pillars where they belong

Perfect "note".  Now I get those pictures and what I DO see.

 

 

16 minutes ago, chistech said:

Like I said, they still need some massaging but they will never be like a Mercedes SL600 or a BMW.

I do have to disagree on your opinion above IF it was a blanket statement, which I plainly see it is not.

 

 

I think I might be able to a least get some time to a couple? of my real first permanently installed wood pieces at some time this week...maybe :)   .  I think I can do the lower sill splices and the bolt on kickups, without any issues...but then it get dicey at the frear tail connection "angles" of the 3 parts joining in each corner.  Once the angles can somehow be made correctly (that is going to be a very slow task)..  These 3 are not a glue joint, just bolts, but based from only looking at the steel braces there. 

 

I know it will be a fun task, but always being on guard, (which slows down any progress)

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Haven't posted in a while. Everyday life has gotten it the way and slowed my work done some but I've still been making progress. Needed to put a new fuel tank in my restored 83' Blazer and with a persistent red brake light, a master cylinder yesterday. Tank leak is fixed and the brake issue is fixed. Now just to pull the great running 6.2 and put another one in it. Yup, it runs great but one day just decided to have blow by into the cooling system. Could fix the head gasket but it also has a main seal leak the appeared after it was all assembled and driving a few months. The motor was not touched during the restoration because it's much easier to just replace them when a problem arises. I have another motor to go in with 9K on it's rebuild.

 

I've been assembling my customer's 31' Chevy chassis and it's almost ready to be test driven. The chassis was completely disassembled and everything painted. New king pins and brake parts were added during reassembly. I had the tank and radiator flushed which yielded a bad radiator. A call to Lee at the Brassworks and I have a new replacement on the way. Still need to paint the tank and hopefully get the re-chromed radiator shroud back from the plater soon.

 

Now, back to the Olds. Cut out the small area of rot on the bottom edge of the passenger side cowling and need to weld the patch in. Started working on the doors. While they're not bad, they're not great either with both needing some wood work and some small metal work. The passenger door has a few pin holes at the bottom up about an 1" and the driver's door will need a new door bottom which I will bend and cut up to match. Both needed new regulator boards and the driver's door needs a whole new lower board and some of the latch side frame replaced. I've decided to use the high quality ash plywood for the regulator boards. All these cars originally used solid ash boards glued together and every car I've worked on has had numerous issues with the regulator boards being cracked, split, warped, or rotted. One of the big reasons for these problems is that the boards are inletted quite extensively and in many places are quite thin. Badly worn and sticky window channels help to put a lot of pressure on the regulator and the board it's mounted to. The result is a cracked and broken board. The ply wood should help with strength and less warping. Both have been made and finished with my green copper naphthalene  like the originals were. I also cut out the rotten section of the latch side wood framing and made up a new one. I will wait to glue and install it until I have bent up and installed the new door bottom. I've mounted the regulator boards with the latches and window regulators on them to test fit. All looks good so far. Used the Roto-Zip with circle attachment to route the regulator reliefs and a small Ridgid round base trim router to do the majority of the inletting. Used the table saw and dado head for the rabbets and some of the larger inletted areas. No special tools needed and going slow while taking good measurements will yield anyone a good regulator board.

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Pretty neat how you did the "Dutchman" repair of the door side post. !   Nice solid repair that saves tedious replacement if you remade the entire post.  We will need to do the same on my Friend Joe's 34 LaSalle sedan for sure.

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Gotten back to doing some on the Olds recently as I'm currently waiting on the body for my customer's 31' Chevy to come back from the paint shop. Received about half of my chrome back from R&D Plating this past week and it looks great. Sending out the windshield frame, roof irons, headlight buckets, and a lot of smaller items for my second batch this coming week. I was able to locate all the parts to make my freewheeling unit operational so now my driveline will be 100% as original. Assembled the free wheeling unit to the trans and bell housing then bolted it all to an engine stand for painting. The Bill Hirsch Oldsmobile engine green paint sprayed real easy and had nice coverage. It dried to the touch in about 10mins too. I painted the trans, engine valve covers, oil fill tube/dip stick, fan puller mount, water jacket cover, and some smaller engine parts. Painted the fan black yesterday with a single stage black. After all was dry I installed my newly re-chromed shift lever. Should be picking up my motor from the rebuild shop soon so once the motor is painted, the motor and trans will be dropped in the chassis finishing up the chassis and running gear. Have my wheels all blasted and primed with the wood bleached. Need to sand the spokes all down and get them all varnished up. Then the wheels will go to paint. 

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Got a call from my machine shop today. They are working on my motor and I went down to take a couple pics. Motor has been very lightly decked and bored .020 over. It was hardly worn so that is a good thing.  Main bearings along with the crank are in excellent condition which was a big plus. The bearings appear original with "OMW" logo and a production date of 12/31 stamped right on them.  My car was a 1st-2nd week of February build so that date seems about right. They have bead blasted/cleaned up all internal parts and will be working on it until finished. I was told week after next. Picked up the balancer, timing chain cover, and front engine cover/mount and will paint them up. The machine shop is doing a real nice job. 

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Continuing to work on the motor component parts. I am having the oil bath fan hub body re-bushed at the machine shop and that should be done soon. I took apart my water pump/oil cooler so I can rebuild the water pump section, clean and blast the inside of the oil cooler cast housing, and flush the Harrison oil cooler itself. The Harrison cooler body has a flow control plate on the bottom with larger holes in the middle and smaller holes on the outside edges. I am lucky as this must have been replaced and the whole unit worked on before the car was stored as the covers are in good shape (not rotted out) and the fan blade shaft has very little wear on it. Most of these need a lot of work and are hard to find. Luckily I have a second one but it's not in as good as shape. One of the caps has rot holes in it but it can be fixed. The Harrison cooler body looks great though. All looks good so far. Starting to reassemble.

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Painted up some more engine components today. Waiting on a special felt oiler type bearing (exact OEM replacement) to finish rebuilding the water pump but painted it and the oil cooler housing up. When I was at the machine shop, he told me the head bolts weren't that great. Did a search on Google for "high head, head bolts" and located a guy right here in NE that used to make them and had a bunch in stock. Had the exact size I needed and I had them in a day! Took them by the machine shop today to find the head has been cleaned, decked, and checked and is in great shape. The oil pump is in great condition (gear type because the Olds 6 was a full pressurized system), and the machine shop is still on schedule to have it done by end of next week

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Thanks. The sand blasting and painting of all these small parts take a lot of time but at the same time, the small details are what makes a great restoration. Getting pretty excited about how this this car will look and drive. Shooting for this time next year to be done!

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Had some restoration work done on my gauges by Instrument Specialties in North Kingstown, RI. They refaced the water temp/oil gauge and installed an new sender tube, recharged it and tested it. They refaced all the speedo dials and repaired some broken parts in in. They also refaced the amp and gas gauges then went through them for functionality. I had the non functional clock changed over to a electronic quartz movement and they refaced it also. I had the bezels all rechromed at R&D Plating of TN and put them back together tonight. I to make another gasket for the temp gauge as you can see it in the picture showing behind the glass and I temporarily put them in place on the dash panel. (I put the gas and amp gauges in the wrong locations as they need to be switched) The face panel is a spare that I won't be using and my good one is going out for refinishing. Lots of small pieces needing attention. LOL

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Machine shop called today to tell me the valves were cut on a lathe and not ground,. Basically, the valves were not made very well. The shank of the valve was not cut high enough to clear the top of the guide either. It's amazing that vendors tell you they have the parts and then farm out the work to another who does sub par work all the while charging you plenty because "good parts cost good money". My shop ended up cutting the shanks higher and ground the face of the valves to make them the way the should have been. My block was is very good shape so the seats were re-ground and no inserts were necessary. They are putting it all back together the rest of this week and next so it should be all done soon. Was able to locate new, high head, grade 8 head bolts that were made 3-4 decades ago so it will go back together like a new motor.  

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My 32' Olds has a free wheeling cooling fan as the water pump is mounted on the side of the engine and is driven by the generator which has a through shaft, coupled to the water pump. The fan is unique to the era as it is a spiral oil groove cut main shaft with the bronze bearings riding on the shaft in an oil filled housing. As the hub w/fan rotates, oil in the hub is picked up through small holes (holes can be seen in the housing in the top right of picture) and caught by the main shaft front plate. Centrifugal force, pressurizes the hub and forces oil down along the screw shaft lubricating the bronze bushings. At the end of the shaft but still inside the hub, there are another four small holes that allows the oil to escape and be thrown into a slinger cup just inside the rear exit hole for the shaft allowing the oil to drip back down into the hub oil reservoir. Oil school but it worked. My good friend Ed Vivieros of Maplewood Machine Shop replaced the worn bushing for me so the hub is ready to last another 85 years! Put on new gaskets, reassembled the hub and gave it a new coat of gloss black paint. Now to mount the blades.

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Edited by chistech (see edit history)

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Got called by the machine shop today to come down and take some pictures. The rod bearings were slightly distorted out of round so they got scraped to fit the polished journals of the crank. The rings were filed to fit and the Ross Racing pistons were installed along with the crank and cam. Motor is looking good.  The pistons were a perfect fit in the bore and the whole assembly turns nicely though stiff like it should. Kudos to Ross for the quality product they make. The valves will be fitted soon along with the new timing chain and timing chain cover. Then the oil pump, pump lines,  and the oil pan will all be put back on. Making up a wood cradle so when it's done I can have it secured in it when I bring it home.  

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More done on the motor. Cam, timing chain, timing chain cover, oil pump, and all associated lines are installed. Two of the three banks of valves and lifters are in. Oil pan is going on today and the last bank of valves and guides will go in. Should be done soon.

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This arrived yesterday! Only one problem, it has to go back to the machine shop. They forgot to put the flywheel bolts back in the crank after they polished the journals. Now the pan needs to come back off along with the rear main bearing cap to put the bolts in. There’s just not enough clearance to do it any other way. 

The total cost of my engine rebuild was very reasonable prices as follows:

custom pistons,rings, and pins from Ross Racing, $835

6 rods rebabbitted by Paul’s                                        $$750

6 exhaust valves, 6 guides, 6 springs, and misc.     $235 (from Then And Now)

timing chain,                                                                   $145

24 new high head head bolts.                                      $175

gasket material.                                                              $ 50

machine shop labor.                                                       $1,750

total.                                                                                  $3,940

 

Very happy with the total. Labor included total disassembly, cleaning/bead blasting of most parts, boring.020 over, installing new valves, guides, springs, cutting of new valve seats, grinding and turning of valves, balancing of crank, polishing of crank journals, scraping/setting of rod bearings, filing rings, refacing of flywheel, pressure plate, and total reassembly.

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