32' Oldsmobile Deluxe Convertible Roadster

[chistech]

It's just too darn cold in the garage and I'll have to bring the wheels in the basement. Anything below 55 and it won't dry. My garage at night goes down to ambient and we've been a lot colder than that.  Hopefully the varnish will dry, if not, I'll have to remove it from the wheels and start over. 

[Laughing Coyote]

Those wheels will look classy with the cap and rings on them.

[chistech]

My brother came over today and helped me get the rear body metal on the the wood frame work. Started nailing it all on and all is going as it should. Put the golf bag door on and all the lines are correct. With the metal only half nailed on this body is solid like a rock. So far I’m very happy with my wood to metal fit. No real gaps anywhere.

Edited December 2, 2017 by chistech (see edit history)

[pacerman]

That is really nice work. 

 

[Laughing Coyote]

Very nice 

[chistech]

Thank you gentlemen. The hardest thing now I find is coming out of the garage. I don’t want to stop working on it as every little thing just keeps getting it closer to the finish. It starts to become a sickness! LOL

[J.H.Boland]

Garage heaters come in many styles.I'm sure the topic has been wrung out on this forum before.A few years ago,I had a small overhead propane furnace installed.I keep the temperature just above freezing,cranking it up when I'm out there.Gas would be fine,but there isn't a line out here.Well worth the investment.

Your restoration is an inspiration to all of us.It would be a shame if you had to stop for the winter.

Jim

[keiser31]

10 hours ago, chistech said:

Thank you gentlemen. The hardest thing now I find is coming out of the garage. I don’t want to stop working on it as every little thing just keeps getting it closer to the finish. It starts to become a sickness! LOL

The old car "bug" isn't a bug at all. It IS our sickness.

That is surely looking beautiful!

[13CADDY]

this is a great posting--your work is excellent--I feel like i'm working right next to you--thanks, Tom

[chistech]

1 hour ago, J.H.Boland said:

Garage heaters come in many styles.I'm sure the topic has been wrung out on this forum before.A few years ago,I had a small overhead propane furnace installed.I keep the temperature just above freezing,cranking it up when I'm out there.Gas would be fine,but there isn't a line out here.Well worth the investment.

Your restoration is an inspiration to all of us.It would be a shame if you had to stop for the winter.

Jim

Good news Jim, I work all winter long! LOL. My shop is fairly large at 30x60 but I got lucky when my painter moved from his old shop and offered me a big oil fired hot air furnace for next to no dollars. While it will use about 4-5 gallons of oil on one of my longer work days, it also keeps the whole shop at 60 degrees easily. It’s much easier working with just a sweat shirt on than a heavy jacket. I usually have one or two customers cars during the winter so I fit my stuff in between but those cars help pay for that heater!

[chistech]

44 minutes ago, 13CADDY said:

this is a great posting--your work is excellent--I feel like i'm working right next to you--thanks, Tom

 

Thanks for the kind words Tom. Rather than give you my full life’s history, I’ll just give you the most recent when I got back into restoring vehicles. What I found when I got my 31’ Chevy a couple years ago was that there was not many really good detailed restoration threads out there. Another hobby I have is building radio control scale aircraft, mostly WWII fighters. They are all featured out with retractable landing gear, flaps, sculpted pilots, fiberglass cloth covered, and air brush painted finishes. On the RC forums, I would post full, step by step build threads so what I’m doing here is just a continuation by using a different subject. While  a 32’ Olds is quite rare, with this car being a cabriolet, someone doing a Chevy, Olds, or Pontiac cabriolet, could reference my thread for helpful information as the were all Fisher bodied and all very similar. Nothing would please me more than to have this thread help someone.

Ted

[chistech]

Finished fastening the body metal onto the wood today. Both latch pillar covers and both rocker panels are on and finished. Welded the top corners of both latch pillars to the body metal like the were originally before I cut them off for disassembly. The nails through the very corners of the latch pillars get seated then ground down on each side to match the 90d corner. The belt line metal was flattened to the wood after nailing to prevent any water leakage where the convertible roof meets the body. Put the rumble lid back on and adjusted it for best fit. The lower rumble lid apron will need some shimming by using some roofing felt paper under the knife edge where it screws to the lower deck rail. This is a common way to get just the right curvature and clearance to the lower edge of the rumble lid. For those of you who’ve seen bad scratches or even dents in the lower portion of the rumble lid, that is because of improper distance of the lower apron. Sometimes it’s because of wood rot or worn lid bumpers but when it’s on a newly restored car, it’s often the curvature or distance wasn’t set right.  Once the lower apron is adjusted and nailed on, the body will be ready to go to paint.

 

     I believe I will have to strip the spar varnish off my wheels as it’s refusing to dry no matter what I do. I might end up using a slow drying two part epoxy resin to coat them with but I’d prefer to use the varnish especially for the nice golden color it adds. Found a good use for all the extra pine tar/kerosene/linseed oil mix I made up. While these cars were treated with a wood preservative when they were first made (copper arsenic) the wood also had brown tint to it which was most likely some sort of pine tar treatment. So I brushed all my green (copper naphthalene) wood with the mixture to give the wood a nice lighter brown “new car” look to the wood. I wonder if the term, “new car smell” came from the smell of copper arsenic and pine tar so many years ago!

 

 

 

Edited December 4, 2017 by chistech (see edit history)

[Taylormade]

Could the pine-tar/kerosene/linseed oil mixture be preventing the spar varnish from drying?  It may be incompatible with the varnish.

[chistech]

It is the normal mixture and process used by many for their wood spoked wheels. It should be compatible but who knows. I read where it does happen and you have to strip it and start over. My painter is waiting on my wheels so I need to get them done. I’ll figure it out somehow.

[chistech]

Bit the bullet today and stripped 4 of the wheels of the still sticky varnish. Lightly sanded them and washed them with Prepsol to remove any grease or oil. My good friend and fellow antique car enthusiast, Charlie Nash, gave me a can of what is considered the best varnish made, Pettit “Captains “ spar varnish. Immediately upon brushing it on I noticed a big difference in how it applied and by the time I was finishing the second side, the first side was already losing its tackiness. I believe I will be good this time. Also moved to the cellar with heat and a dehumidifier. I left the first two wheels I did alone as it seems that they might be finally drying. Even any drops that fell on the steel rim hadn’t dried which tells me it’s not a compatibility or chemical issue due to the pine tar/linseed oil/kerosene mixture. The Rustoleum varnish just doesn’t like to dry. Supposed to wait 12 hours with the Pettit, then sand and recoat. I’ll keep you all posted.

[Taylormade]

Spar varnish for marine use is the best there is.  Glad you found a solution.  For some reason, even the thought of Rustoleum varnish gives me pause.

[chistech]

I didn't realize it was a Rustoleum product until I read the can closer. I was more concerned about it being true spar varnish with a high UV protectant. I can tell you that the Rustoleum etch primer in a spray can works incredibly well and so does the high gloss black. Lots of my car's smaller parts are painted with both the primer and the black with perfect results. I've even primed larger areas and then taken them to the paint shop where we've scuffed up the etch, then reprimed with a urethane gray primer having excellent results with zero compatibility issues. The Rustoleum etch primer actually covers much better than top industry brand etch primers sprayed with a spray gun. I've probably used over 10 full cases of etch primer on all sorts of cars since I starting my hobby business. Never had a single issue with it and have never had a small area of rust appear even after not top coating the primer for 4-6months. Can't say that for a lot of other brands. 

[Taylormade]

 Sorry, I wasn't disparaging Restoleum paint products, but I seriously doubt they are industry leaders in the spar varnish category.  I, too, use the etch primer and it works great, as does the gloss black.  My only complaint is with the nozzles on some of the spray cans.  The old style nozzles work fine, but the large, flat "all direction" nozzles are impossible to clear and I have had to toss many half full spray cans because the nozzles clogged.  I even tried replacing  the bad nozzle with a new one from another can to no avail.  Calls to the company got me nowhere.  Now I only buy this type of can when I know I have a large area to paint and can use most of the can in one sitting.

[Spinneyhill]

3 hours ago, Taylormade said:

nozzles are impossible to clear

If they are the same as what is on sale here now, I pull them off and put them in acetone for a few ticks then blow off (through the paint feed) with 100 p.s.i. air. They are clear but a bit of a fiddle to fit back on. Well maybe a lot of a fiddle. The best quality painting is done before this becomes necessary.

[chistech]

TM, I didn't take it that way at all and agree, Rustoleum isn't the first company I would ever think of when thinking of varnish. The nozzles are a pain but I've determined it's the paint itself that clogs the tip, not the tip having issues because I'll pull the tips off of cans that spray really well and clean them to save for cans that might give issues. If I use those tips on other cans, they clog. To prevent problems, I know have a microwave in the garage and I heat up a deep plastic bowl of water. I then put the can in the water and let it sit for a while before I need to spray. I have not had one issue since doing this and get the cans so empty they don't even feel like they have any weight to them at all. When doing this I find the paint sprays better, smoother, and seems to have a better shine on the black gloss.

[Luv2Wrench]

2 hours ago, chistech said:

TM, I didn't take it that way at all and agree, Rustoleum isn't the first company I would ever think of when thinking of varnish. The nozzles are a pain but I've determined it's the paint itself that clogs the tip, not the tip having issues because I'll pull the tips off of cans that spray really well and clean them to save for cans that might give issues. If I use those tips on other cans, they clog. To prevent problems, I know have a microwave in the garage and I heat up a deep plastic bowl of water. I then put the can in the water and let it sit for a while before I need to spray. I have not had one issue since doing this and get the cans so empty they don't even feel like they have any weight to them at all. When doing this I find the paint sprays better, smoother, and seems to have a better shine on the black gloss.

 

Very interesting tip on the spray cans.  I've had several that just quit spraying reliably about mid-way through the can.  I'll have to try heating the cans in the hot water.

 

I must have missed how you treated the wood beforehand.  Was it already treated (copper naphthalene) when you got it?  What type of wood is it?  If it came treated, where did you get it?

 

The car really looks good... very much looking forward to the rest of the journey!

[chistech]

All the wood is ash or ash plywood. I purchased the copper naphthalene and simply applied it with a brush. I figure it both acts as a preservative and an insecticide. We don't have any wood borer problem up here in NE but might as well kill two birds with one stone. The wood is not pressurized with the CN like pressure treated wood you purchase at the lumber yard so it's only gone as deep as it will soak in. Shouldn't affect the fasteners at all like some had mentioned and if it does corrode them some, it will help hold them fast in the wood.

[Spinneyhill]

3 hours ago, chistech said:

if it does corrode them some, it will help hold them fast in the wood.

 

Um, sorry, not quite. When a fastener rusts, the timber around it breaks down and loses ability to hold the fastener. It is called "nail sickness".

 

Around here many have a timber deck attached to their house for "outdoor living" and if they used galvanised nails to hold the deck planks on, the rusting nails work their way out over time (ours did). They do that because of thermal and wet-dry expansion and contraction combined with nail sickness in the timber. The only way to fix it is to remove the nail and install either a larger diameter SS screw or SS "decking nail", usually now made with ridges on the shaft and often with a second "head" below the one hit with the hammer. The best fix is new SS decking nails in new holes.

 

Zinc naphthenate ("clear") is an alternative that is fairly good as a preservative etc. and doesn't cause the same amount of corrosion in fasteners.

[chistech]

You are talking fully saturated, pressure treated, softwood, exposed to UV sunlight and extreme temps changes. With the lack of all those things, there will not be of any sort of severe rusting or "nail sickness" to the extent one has to worry about with these cars. Another part of the issue you describe is the constant  drying/wetting of the exposed lumber/decking that has been totally saturated with the CN. That process along with the UV light exposure all contributes to the problem. On a dock in the water for instance, the issue will be much less on anything below the waterline. I used to repair our dock at the ice house I worked at for years here on the waterfront and the galvanized bolts rusted over time from the salt water but there was no loss of the pressure treated timbers around those bolts below the waterline and even those that were in the tide line. There was also very little on the tops of the docks also and they were all fastened with galvanized spikes.

 

The wood of these cars is not exposed to the UV aspect like any exposed treated decking or timbers. If anything, the wetting/drying process is slower due to not only the lack of direct sunlight, but the lack of flowing air over the surface of the wood. My wood while treated with the CN, has also been coated with the Pine tar/linseed oil/kerosene treatment also.  The metal body skin has also been painted on the inside, the originals were not. And yes, some slight rusting on the plain steel fasteners will hold them fast, just like the originals did. This car is 86yrs old (model year) and many fasteners unscrewed right out of the wood that was not rotted. That wood was the "high" wood" that was protected from the elements and not subjected to the heavy moisture an open car would have received when they were driving as a normal part of life. The "high wood" in this car showed deep green color from the copper arsenic with those screws showing virtually no decay nor did the wood show deterioration and the screws were still in tight as new. Of course, the wood was a hardwood (ash) and it was brushed with CA, not pressure treated, as mine is now.

[Spinneyhill]

Yes, point taken. The wood in the car will stay dry (hopefully), which will minimise the rusting of the fasteners.

[chistech]

Still fighting the varnish. Changed brands and thought I was going to be good but as it seemed the varnish was getting dry, it then got tacky again. I still had two other wheels that I had stripped of finish so I bought some Japan drier and added the recommended amount to the four ounce mix I made up. When I applied it, it seemed to go on even better. Again, while being applied, it seemed to be drying even faster than the last application. Thought I figured it out. 24 hrs later, those two wheels are not much dryer than when I finished applying the varnish. They’re not very tacky at all, but still not dry. I’m working in my finished basement with the dehumidifier turned up and a small electric heater warming air around them.

 

   So, being disappointed with the lack of progress, I dug deeper into the internet and found one thread where a poster mentions that “if oxalic acid is used, drying will be difficult”. !!!! WTH. That’s what I used to get the stains out of my spokes. So now I have to figure out what to do.  Two wheels I originally did with the Rustoleum varnish are almost dry after two weeks. Two others that I did 5 days ago with Pettit captains varnish are almost dry, and the two I did a day ago, are about the same. So it doesn’t seem the Japan drier did much. The stirring stick dries well especially with the Japan drier. I believe if I can get just the first coat to dry, the others will dry fine. There is a mention of a sealer on the label that could be applied first to help fill porous grains and if this stuff still doesn’t dry pretty soon, it will be my next approach. What a pain this has become. I need to get my wheels done and the varnish is holding it all up.

Edited December 11, 2017 by chistech
Spelling (see edit history)

[Spinneyhill]

Did you neutralise the oxalic acid left in the wood after you finished? Sodium bicarbonate is usually used for neutralising acid. I wonder if...

[chistech]

5 hours ago, Spinneyhill said:

Did you neutralise the oxalic acid left in the wood after you finished? Sodium bicarbonate is usually used for neutralising acid. I wonder if...

 

NO! I followed the directions on the container for flushing the wood. Those directions never mention using SB. I read a lot on the internet about Oxalic acid last night and that is where I read to use baking soda and flush at least 3 times, then letting the wood dry for at least 24hrs. I also read where after you flushed it and when you sanded it, if the dust took your breath away, then you need to flush it again. Well, I remember exactly that happening. So, it sounds like I'm back to the drawing board on these wheels. I am giving one more thing a try. I also read where turpentine or mineral spirits can be lightly rubbed over the surface to remove the tackiness. The recoat the wood and it will cure. I suppose it's worth trying first before stripping 6 wheels again, sanding them down, then flushing them, then sanding them down just to prep them to start all over with the varnish.

[Spinneyhill]

If you have oxalic acid still in the wood and moisture gets in, it might eventually be a bit hard on the metal bits attached to it.

[Laughing Coyote]

Don't you hate these kind of issues? You're moving along on your project and making good headway and then, Blam! The auto Gremlins pop in and cause all kinds of issues and slow you down. I have my own issues with a new fuel sender that's not working in a new tank that is leaking fuel around the sender mounting area. So now I have to drain the fuel, drop the tank, pull the sender, check why it's leaking, clean the fuel off the outside of the tank, repaint the tank outside and start over with the whole process. Even put an NOS fuel gauge in which was a PITA. Aren't cars just wonderful.

Keep at it, you will get it figured out and be back on track.

[chistech]

Ok, finally think I'm making progress with the finish on the wheels. Wiped them down lightly with turpentine to remove the stickiness and then gave 5 of them a light coat of the varnish I had mixed up with the Japan Drier. I only had enough for 5 wheels left. 18hrs later I have three dry and two almost dry. I've found the two wheels that still have some stickiness is where there is some staining remaining on the backs of the wheels. Every time I redo them, they have less and less sticky areas. It might take one more wipe down on those other two wheels but I seem to be making progress. 

      Worked on the front bow of the convertible roof today. The front bow has a metal perimeter frame with wood inserts. I made up the two side boards and started laying out the center bow on a piece of ash I planed down. I need to mortise the ends of the center bow first, before I cut the piece to shape. Once it's cut to shape and sanded, the end boards will get the tenons cut to match the center board. 

[dei]

Have been following along quietly and love your work on this car!

 

I see another hobby going on in the background there.

Is that G Scale by chance?

[chistech]

1 hour ago, dei said:

Have been following along quietly and love your work on this car!

 

I see another hobby going on in the background there.

Is that G Scale by chance?

LOL, yes it is. This is my indoor area which is a 8x12 L shaped staging area. My cellar is a walkout and my intentions are to continue out to a 45x55 raised area I have in the back yard. The wall has the cutout already and there is a drop in bridge to allow an opening of doors into a small room off the side of my basement. The problem is I have multiple hobbies so they all only get a small piece of my time. I have about 1,600' of SS and LGB brass track to put down with many large radius switches. While I have somewhat of the outside layout planned on paper, nothing has gone down on the ground. My first project when I do start the layout is to build a 25' double track trestle that will carry the trains out to the big layout and back. The trains, once outside, will follow the determined route based on magnets placed on different areas of each locomotive.  The magnets will operate the switches and track power to send different trains to different loops on the layouts. The way it will all work is my staging area holds three different trains. The first will go out of the basement, follow it's designed route, then return to the staging area, automatically shutting it's siding down and energizing the second while changing the appropriate switches (turnouts). The second train will then leave the basement, through the wall, along the trestle, and follow it's route outside, then return, shutting it's siding down and energizing the 3rd train. When the 3rd train returns, the 1st train goes out and starts the whole process over again. The reason for this whole design is to give anyone sitting outside watching the trains, the impression that the trains go far away and take a long time to return. 

[dei]

LOVE IT! 

I too have been collecting only at this point here and there at this point but have plans outside. Will need however to keep my wife happy by removing my parts car from behind the garage first otherwise...

Meantime I have an HO 11' X 17' walk-in setup in the basement that is a work in progress (aren't they all?). 

I didn't mean to hijack your thread but maybe down the road you could share more of your "other" hobby?

 

Just to share, my dad made this steam engine and case for one of my boys when he was in his late 70's. He loved working with wood! 

[chistech]

What a lot of work the last couple nights! I have white sanding dust finally. Wheels were all mostly dry with just a couple tiny areas where the sanding balled up a little. I can understand why lots of old car guys either love or hate wood wheels. They really look beautiful and unique but man, they are tons and tons of tight hand work. Have all six ready for a fresh coat of varnish tomorrow. 

 

Finished making the front bow tonight. Cut it out on the band saw and did a lot of the finishing with hand rasps and files. Lots of inletting and details on this bow, much like a door latch pillar. Glued and clamped it all up while on the metal frame to keep it all in the correct shape. When it was dry, I pulled it off the frame, gave it a sanding, then coated it with some of my pine tar/linseed oil/kerosene mixture to give a nice rich color. It will get varnished tomorrow along with the wheels.

[Laughing Coyote]

Dei,

The trains are cool, but I'd like to see the stuff with wings hanging from the rafters in the shop. I love those WWII aircraft. The car is looking good and hopefully the wheel issue has been solved for you.

[chistech]

LOL, you guys are too much. I'll make a deal with you. I'll look to see if there's another place here on the AACA forums to post things like other hobbies. If there is, I'll post some pictures of both hobbies. I have many plans built and kit build WWII fighter planes with air brush painted finishes, retractable landing gear, flaps, detailed pilots, etc. All are smaller scaled which makes the detailing much harder as thing are hard to make small and light with good detail. I usually build aircraft that isn't modeled often so you will see things like a Kingfisher float plane, a Japanese Shinden Kai fighter, and a good old dauntless dive bomber (still in building mode). Hey, I could slip a picture here or there. I'm using a new laptop so those pictures are all saved on a disk so I'll have to get them some how. 

 

As far as the trains, I make many of my own buildings, freight cars, cabooses, and even built a Ruby live steam engine from a kit. I now realize reading all this that I guess I'm not satisfied with just doing any particular hobby. I seem to have the need to always do something involved and different no matter what hobby it is. 

[chistech]

Ok, throwing another wrench into the finishing mix! The most recent coat of varnish has completely dried on ALL wheels!!!!!! Yay! But the first coat I put on the bow is tacky. My good friend and fellow Olds owner who’s taught me so much about my car and the whole 32’ model lineup thought a while back that my issue with the varnish might be my pine tar/linseed oil/kerosene coloring mixture I’m using. I believe he is correct as the bow was new and I never used oxalic acid on it. I got the formula for that mixture here on the forums from a member who uses it quite often. Perhaps that mixture needs to be on the wood for a long period to soak well in before being varnished over. The thread didn’t mention that though. Possibly it’s the pine tar or the kerosene that’s preventing the varnish from kicking. Next time I’ll go with a minwax stain. What the hell am I saying, I hope there’s never a next time on these Olds wheels!

[Spinneyhill]

I wonder if it is the kerosene, which is a bit oily. I have used a mix containing linseed oil and turpentine on rifle stocks. The turps does dry. And if you use turps rather than mineral turps (from oil), it is a wood product so should be ideal?

[chistech]

3 minutes ago, Spinneyhill said:

I wonder if it is the kerosene, which is a bit oily. I have used a mix containing linseed oil and turpentine on rifle stocks. The turps does dry. And if you use turps rather than mineral turps (from oil), it is a wood product so should be ideal?

You are probably correct on the Kerosene but I believe the intention of the mixture is to have that lighter viscosity oil to carry the linseed and color into the wood deeper to help protect it, not just color it on the very outside. I think the turpentine might dry too fast and not carry the linseed oil as deep into the wood leaving it more at the surface. Just my theory there! LOL  Luckily I won't need the roof bow for a while and the wheels are definitely drying now as I need those ASAP. 

 

PS. Just saw where you said rifle stocks. I take it that NZ didn't take away the firearms like Australia did? Along with my other hobbies, another is making percussion hunting rifles based on Hawken/Mountain rifle designs. I've hand rubbed a few stocks down in my time and have never had a drying issue with a gunstock like I've had with this car.