John S. Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 Ted, new kitchen, and football aside, the Oldsmobile is coming along so nicely. This has been a great restoration project. Thanks. John. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chistech Posted January 23, 2019 Author Share Posted January 23, 2019 I’m starting to see black! It’s only a couple pieces but it’s progress. Tomorrow the splash aprons/running boards should get done. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughing Coyote Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 (edited) Ooohhhhh so Shiny! I bet you're excited now. It's going to be nice. Edited January 23, 2019 by Laughing Coyote (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John S. Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 Yeahhhhhhh! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chistech Posted January 26, 2019 Author Share Posted January 26, 2019 Well, as always, there’s another little project coming up for this car. This one is going to really test my machining skills. I will be trying to fabricate another mold but this time it will be for a front floor close out panel. The Olds has two of them. A small square one with rounded corners that mounts to the floor around the shift lever and a larger rectangular one that mounts around the pedals and the steering column. Both use the exact same raised rib panels and chamfered edge so it just the size and the details inside the edges that will change. The first mold will be the smaller, easier one of course. It will be made in three pieces with two pieces making one side of the mold and the single piece, the other. I’ll be using soft aluminum as all parts will be cast with rubber so there’s not a lot of wear to be put on the mold. With this mold, it has to be made in reverse of the part so the details on the process need to be written down to hopefully prevent any “oops”moments. The first piece I’ll make, and I’ll be making enough of the pattern so I’ll have a big enough piece machined for both molds, will be the raised rib and grooved center panel. Set up is always a time consuming thing so making enough for both will save me time. Again, working in reverse, the raised 5/16 ribs become milled grooves and the 3/8” grooves will now be ribs made by simply spacing each 5/16” groove, exactly 3/8” apart. If you look at the picture of the part, you will see each groove has six fine lines that are tiny raised V-ribs. These lines are spaced of the center of the groove and are equal to 26pitch. To duplicate these fine grooves I will be using a 24lpi gunstock 3 row checking cutter. I will make a special tool holder that will perfectly straddle the 3/8” rib, hold two checking cutters side by side on center with the rib, and will control the final cut depth of the cutters. The checking cutters work like files and I’ve already tested some of my hand checking tools that I use for another hobby of mine, gun making. I purchased a .03 radius corner end mill that will allow me to mill the 5/16” slots for the ribs and once the part is out of the mold, the ribs will have nice slightly rounded corners as the originals do. The next piece will be the outside edge perimeter of the mold. This will be milled using a rotary table and and a 60degree chamfer cutter. The piece first needs the center completely milled out where the ribbed section will be. Once this is milled out, the chamfer cutter will be run around the whole perimeter to give the flat angled edge. Then, at the very inside edge, a small groove will be milled to give the small raised rib that separates the flat angled perimeter from the ribbed center area. The ribbed piece will be milled to size and pressed into the other mold piece and seated at the correct depth. The back half of the mold will have the raised flat sides that have the four screw holes in them and will also have the plug for the round hole that is required for the center of the closeout plate. This should be fun! Stay tuned. LOL 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughing Coyote Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 You could try "Then and Now". They fabricated several rubber parts that I couldn't get for my Mercury. May save you a lot of headache. Just a thought. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chistech Posted January 26, 2019 Author Share Posted January 26, 2019 We’ll need at least two of these and two pedal close out panels so we’ll end up with the molds when done too. I know it’s a ton of work but a ton of fun to do also. I’ve already gotten the special end Mills and the checking cutters are on their way. Got nothing to lose in at least making the attempt. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luv2Wrench Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 Please do post lots of details, where you get the rubber, temps, times, etc, etc. This sounds like something I could see myself having to do in the future. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Mereness Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 (edited) I ended up with some rubber parts for floor much like you have posted and instead of replacing we used spray on black tool dip (used for handles on tools) - worked 80% to expectation and was still capable of AACA, CCCA, and ...judging standards. And, the black 3-M epoxy they use for bonding together sheet metal panels together on new cars makes an ok filler. Edited January 26, 2019 by John_Mereness (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chistech Posted January 26, 2019 Author Share Posted January 26, 2019 3 hours ago, Luv2Wrench said: Please do post lots of details, where you get the rubber, temps, times, etc, etc. This sounds like something I could see myself having to do in the future. No problem, I’ll post the whole construction part and I’ll try and get the rubber information from my friend who actually does the molding. I make the molds, he buys and blends the rubber formula and molds the parts. We’ve had very good luck so far. He’s a retired engineer from Hughes aircraft and is extremely knowledgeable about a ton of things. Before we became friends he had a machine shop make him up a couple of molds and he did a ton of experimenting until he got what he felt was the best all around result. The molds were expensive but he was getting parts for his 32’ Olds that no one had. Since we’ve now become friends and I make the molds, it become a win-win for both of us and a lot more affordable. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 Do those "rubber" parts have a steel insert in them to hold their shape? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chistech Posted January 27, 2019 Author Share Posted January 27, 2019 Tried out my new radius 5/16” end mill on a piece of scrap aluminum. I ordered all the aluminum I will need to make the actual mold earlier today. I measured the height of the ribs on my pedal close out and got a pretty consistent.055 so that’s what I went with. The first thing I did after leveling the stock in the miller vise was to figure out the distance I would have to move my table. With the 5/16” cutters fractional dimension of .3125 and the 3/8 groove at .375, you simply add the two dimensions and the result was .6875. My miller has a digital readout so getting this distance correct is pretty easy. The first groove was made with a number of passes to get to the .055 depth, the readout was set at zero, and the the axis locked to stay on zero. When the first groove was cut, the axis was loosened and the table moved the .6876 (my readout doesn’t read in the 5s in the 10,000 range). The the axis got locked again and the next groove milled. The process is repeated for each groove always remembering to set the readout to zero before loosening the lock. After all the grooves were made, all got sanded with some 360 then 600 to remove the majority of the milling marks. I’ll have my neighbor polish my actual mold when it’s done. I’m pretty happy with the test piece. I could have gotten a larger radius mill but one has to figure the ribs are somewhat worn and shrunk back. The spacing is dead on and I also tried a small 1/8” ball end millbut went a little deep with it leaving a line that shouldn’t be there. I guess I had a brain cramp and wasn’t paying attention when I raised the table. Haven’t gotten my 24lpi checking cutter yet so I haven’t started on the six fine grooves in each 3/8” ribs. So far, so good. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chistech Posted January 27, 2019 Author Share Posted January 27, 2019 15 minutes ago, Spinneyhill said: Do those "rubber" parts have a steel insert in them to hold their shape? Not the one around the shifter but the pedal plate does. We’re not sure if we’re going to try and use a metal plate or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 (edited) There are two such covers in the 1930 Dodge DC, too, in the same places. They both contain steel, about 0.80 mm thick, which is about 21 ga. I think it will be necessary to have steel in it to hold the bent shape properly. The Dodge covers are remarkably similar. They are the same basic pattern, with the difference that the wide lands are below the narrow ridges instead of above them. There is an outfit in Canada that make running board covers as you are, except they CNC mill the rubber rather than make a mould and cast from it. Edited January 27, 2019 by Spinneyhill (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chistech Posted January 27, 2019 Author Share Posted January 27, 2019 The shifter plate screws down on both the floorboard and the toe board so the floor itself is at the angle you see. Not sure if the metal is needed to keep the angle or to keep the screws from pulling through the rubber. The amount we drive these cars and the lack of daily abuse we don’t put them through, the metal is probably not needed. We will experiment both ways to see what seems better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John S. Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 Ted, i would go with the metal. How was it on the car originally? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chistech Posted January 27, 2019 Author Share Posted January 27, 2019 Here are the drawings my friend Joe drew up. Joe is also the guy who will be molding up the rubber parts. Great having an engineer as a friend. With drawings like this, the machine work is a ton easier. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chistech Posted January 29, 2019 Author Share Posted January 29, 2019 Both the pedal plate and the shifter plate had metal in them and we will try and use metal in our reproductions if we can. Took my test plate over to the my neighbors tonight to see if he could give it a quick light polish. He did and it makes a huge difference. When the mold is done and he polishes it all up, we should get some nice results from out mold. My 24 lines per inch checking cutters came in today. they are nice and sharp and should get the job done nicely if I can make the holder correctly. It will take some planning but I believe it will work out. Tomorrow I will try and make up a tool holder for the cutters that will hold both side by side tightly. They are held in place with split roll pins that are very tiny. I will try and design my holder to have a set screw on the side that will squeeze the two cutters together tightly. Mounting the two side by side tightly will yield a perfect six row cutter. Painted one front fender and both running boards tonight. When we started painted the other fender we could see a couple tiny dents that were not there before. Not sure if somehow I banged the fender on something but it definitely was a new dent as it cracked the primer! Damn, you try and be so careful and then you don't even realize when you ding something. It will get fixed tomorrow and and painted probably on thursday night. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John S. Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 Ted, again, very nice work. As i said in a prior post, this is a Master Class in restoration. You are taking great pains to get the Oldsmobile correct in every possible way, and i take my hat off to your dedication. It is fun for me to see the Olds come together. I can only imagine the excitement that you are feeling. Thanks. John 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chistech Posted January 30, 2019 Author Share Posted January 30, 2019 Thank you for those kind words John. All I can really say is I really enjoy trying to do the restoration as well as I can. I really enjoy the challenges in restoring cars and this Olds has been a special one. Things like making wood, or replacing wood that has rotted and fitting it into a car with special joinery is one of those challenges. Knowing that no one makes certain parts and drawing something out, planning how to make an idea work, making a mold for example, is what’s fun for me and keeps me interested. I look at other restoration threads and see those challenges that others face and I can really appreciate the way they rise up to them. There are some really gifted craftsmen on these forums and we all are lucky to be able to learn something from them while they’re enjoying what they’re doing. I don’t think you’ll hear anyone of them really complaining even when things are going tough. They might post something negative about it but they really don’t mean it. It’s just one more challenge, and they’ll rise up to it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John S. Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 My pleasure, Ted. It is just a joy to see the Oldsmobile come together. John 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chistech Posted January 30, 2019 Author Share Posted January 30, 2019 (edited) Got to do a little tonight on the tool holder. I made up the center section that the two cutters will be pinned into. Have to finish milling off of the larger piece I made it from. The center was milled to .250 (1/4”) which is a nice tight fit for the two cutters side by side. The outside of the holder was milled to .375 or the width of the raised ribs that will have the six fine grooves cut into them. I cut two slots with a hacksaw to accept the tangs on the cutters. The holder will get sandwiched between two longer pieces of stock that will guide the tool holder. Will try and get more done tomorrow. Edited January 30, 2019 by chistech (see edit history) 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chistech Posted February 2, 2019 Author Share Posted February 2, 2019 Worked a little more on the cutting jig. I had a couple pieces of hard nylon from work that I milled to the thickness of the slots leaving the thickness of the nylon sides to the inside. This allowed me to mill a 1/2” slot in the middle for the cutter and holder and two slots on the ends that will secure the ends so the whole jig is straight and strong. I milled a slot on each side which will allow for height adjustment of the cutter holder. Hope to get more done tomorrow. The concept of this tool is to operate it much-like a file. With the cutter in the middle of the long sides, it should be able to produce good straight lines but only testing will prove it. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chistech Posted February 2, 2019 Author Share Posted February 2, 2019 (edited) Made my front floor board and toe board a good while back but never put any finish on them so I’ve been varnishing them . Looking pretty good now. Edited February 2, 2019 by chistech (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughing Coyote Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 Are they going to dry with all that freezing cold weather or are they going to give you a fit like the wheels did and won't dry until spring? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chistech Posted February 2, 2019 Author Share Posted February 2, 2019 These are drying with no issues. One day and they’re ready to be sanded down and they get another coat. These pictures show the bottoms of both with their third coat already. Doing them in my cellar, it’s about 55-58 down there, and you’re right about the temp/ time of the year being right about 1 yr ago when I did My wheels. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John S. Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 I can't believe it has been a year since you worked on the wheels! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chistech Posted February 2, 2019 Author Share Posted February 2, 2019 3 hours ago, John S. said: I can't believe it has been a year since you worked on the wheels! Crazy how fast time car go on a restoration. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chistech Posted February 4, 2019 Author Share Posted February 4, 2019 Made up the aluminum end blocks for my grooving tool then drilled the cutter holder for the tiny retainer roll pins. Put the cutters in place then drove the roll pins in. Drilled the middle cutter holder for two through bolts to hold the cutters at a set depth of cut. Sprayed a little oil on the aluminum test plate and used the tool like a file keeping the sides of the tool firmly down in the slots as the cutters can be felt cutting. The tool pivots slightly on the cutters until they’ve cut to the set depth then the nylon sides of the cutter simply slide back and forth. The cutters are designed to cut in both directions and that is the way I operated the tool. You have to clean the cutters about every third or fourth pass but it’s the nature of the beast. Very happy with the results so far. Once I’ve cut all the grooves to the depth shown, I’ll lower the cutter holder some to deepen the grooves. I turned the tool around 180 and used it in the same way in the case of the two cutters being at slightly different heights. The tool works perfectly in both directions so it appears I got everything made perfectly centered. Once I’m happy with this test piece, I’ll send it to joe where he’ll dam off the sides and pour some rubber on top to check the results. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weathered1 Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 Wow that looks great, very resourceful! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 Brilliant! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chistech Posted February 4, 2019 Author Share Posted February 4, 2019 (edited) Thank you gentlemen. I really appreciate your comment Joe as your machining skills amaze me. I’m learning some much each time I work with my mill or lathe. Edited February 4, 2019 by chistech Spelling (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luv2Wrench Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 That is just awesome!! I'm not sure I would have had the patience to build such a good tool. Now that I see the end result, I think I need to learn some more patience!! That was *certainly* worth the effort. Amazing. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chistech Posted February 9, 2019 Author Share Posted February 9, 2019 I sent the longer piece of the aluminum test piece to my buddy Joe to make a test casting. He dam edged the sides with blue painters tape and used an old batch of urethane rubber he had. He knew it was old and most likely wouldn’t cast very well but the test was more to see how the grooves would look. While the rubber didn’t flow in and finish off as good as a fresh batch normally does, the results are definitely satisfactory. The six grooves are plenty deep enough and show up very well in the sample. While it might not be perfect when the whole mold is finished, the parts cast will still be 1000 times better than not having anything even close to being correct in its place. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chistech Posted February 9, 2019 Author Share Posted February 9, 2019 (edited) Picked up some of the painted parts and took them to my moms garage where the chassis is. Put the front and rear aprons in place then put the running boards on their supports on the frame. They are wrapped in moving blankets for now. More parts will be coming soon and we are starting on the wet sanding of the body this weekend. Took my manifold off, split the two halves, and repainted the exhaust manifold with Rustoleum barbecue grill black. I’ve been painting all my manifolds with this paint and they have been holding up better than all the name brand high heat manifold paints I’ve used. Buttoning up all the chassis stuff to get ready to start putting on the painted sheet metal. Edited February 9, 2019 by chistech (see edit history) 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Mereness Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 15 hours ago, chistech said: I sent the longer piece of the aluminum test piece to my buddy Joe to make a test casting. He dam edged the sides with blue painters tape and used an old batch of urethane rubber he had. He knew it was old and most likely wouldn’t cast very well but the test was more to see how the grooves would look. While the rubber didn’t flow in and finish off as good as a fresh batch normally does, the results are definitely satisfactory. The six grooves are plenty deep enough and show up very well in the sample. While it might not be perfect when the whole mold is finished, the parts cast will still be 1000 times better than not having anything even close to being correct in its place. Old or new material aside - Ask someone who casts or a product specialist from the material supplier - there is a solution for the issue of the tiny bubbles - you may be pouring too quickly, pouring at wrong temperature, have to tap mold with a hammer, need to pour in two stages, or ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 Kind of jealous. I was going to try to find a way to remake rubber for my cars, but you are on it! Those samples are looking great! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John S. Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 Ted, the paint work looks great on the car. Coming along nicely. Thanks for the updates. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughing Coyote Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 Very nice. Coming along great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chistech Posted February 10, 2019 Author Share Posted February 10, 2019 (edited) My Olds has two floor board tie down plates, one on each side that screw into the sill edge, and into the floor board edge. I only have one original and it is badly pitted. I had thought a while back of making new ones but the plate has formed in finishing washers at each screw hole for oval head wood screws. Even though these plates are under the mat, I wasn’t happy with the idea of just making new plates without the finishing washer detail. Today, I had a little spare time in the shop and I decided to see if I could make a set of dies to form the washer shape. I had some 1” diameter round SS stock, turned a positive and negative on my lathe, drilled both for a 3/16” pin (one drilled undersized for a press fit), then tested them out. I’m able to use my large HD vise rather than my hydraulic press and I’m quite happy with the results. I only had time to make one but I’ll either make another or make the battery side different. Again, as typical of 32’ Olds, there was a running mid year change in the floor tie plates. The drivers or battery side, instead of getting the same tie plate as shown, got a much bigger plate with the same oval hole cut out to service the battery that the wood floor board has, but if the battery needed changing, the larger plate could be removed. This make things much easier as the Olds parking brake lever is bolted to the floor board which means a lot of extra work is required to removed the first generation floor board for a battery change. Need to look at the bigger floor tie in plate and see about making one of those up. They were offered by Olds dealers as a retrofit so adding one to my car is not a detractor to authenticity. Edited February 10, 2019 by chistech (see edit history) 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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