Garage & Car Barn Thread

[auburnseeker]

I hadn't planned on any for a 2 post.  I figured the extra reinforced floor for my 30,000 pound man lift and excavator would accommodate a 4 post OK, though I was thinking of one heavy enough to pickup my 7,500 lb truck.  I don't know where I would want them at this point anyways, but probably out of the way if I do,  as it never fails,  get something on the lift and have to wait for parts. 

It's going to be atleast a year before I have to worry about that though. 

[rustybottom]

8 hours ago, alsancle said:

 

Requires a login to access the picture.  

Can you see the pic in my post here?

what else do you want to know?

[CatBird]

Getting bids on my buildings. Concrete guys are saying four inches is good enough, except where anchors and supports for the red iron, which will be substantially heavier.

 

Is a four-inch slab for the general floor good enough? Most of my cars average 5,000 pounds each with some weighing 6000 and up to 7000 (1930s limos)

[alsancle]

Since the floor is literally the foundation of everything else I would go for the over.  4 inches feels too thin to me.

[auburnseeker]

It's not about what you have now but what you might get in the future.  I have overdone everything in my garage just in case.  I really hate regrets.  

 

I did get some photos of the shop today before I plasticed up the other windows.  I have door ways to work on next.  

I showed a few inside shots.  It's half full already.  Of course nothing is organized except the excavator.  I have a pile siding all refinished inside,  so that takes up quite a bit of space.  I didn't get a dead on shoot from the door but you get an idea of space. 

No heat and the wind howls through it,  but it's better than buried in the snow bank.  

The difference in Floor I think was 14000. for 4 inches of concrete or 20,000. for 6 inches.  Yes that's a lot but then again in retrospect not that ridiculous for that size building.  I figured the floor at 20 and I was right,  but I was hoping that would include the insulation and tubing.  Which it doesn't. 

[alsancle]

Was it 40x80?   What are you going to use for siding?

[auburnseeker]

It's 60 by 72.  I'm going to use board and batten. My wife stained all the siding last summer so it should have a finished look pretty quick when I can finally afford the windows so I can start siding it. 

[auburnseeker]

That's a 24 foot car trailer parked across the back and it's 8 foot from the side wall so I can open the gate door with it in the garage.  

[alsancle]

50 minutes ago, auburnseeker said:

That's a 24 foot car trailer parked across the back and it's 8 foot from the side wall so I can open the gate door with it in the garage.  

 

You can now.  Check back in about 3 years and tell me if you still can.

[auburnseeker]

Ha Ha very funny.  You and my wife think alike.  LOL

I'm starting to learn to not drag crap home I don't use and get rid of stuff I have that needs to be disposed of.  I actually plan on selling that car trailer at some point once my floor is in.  I never take my cars anywhere and 6G will go nicely toward wiring or insulating or?  I will eventually end up with a dump trailer but I think that is the last piece of equipment I need besides maybe an inside small man scissor lift,  but I won't buy one of those until I have my floor poured. 

There is always a 2nd floor loft option down atleast one wall.  Thus the reason for a 16 foot finished ceiling height.

[alsancle]

Great minds ...

 

You reach a certain age and you start going the away way on accumulating stuff.  I still have my 1940s full size compressor (which is fully hooked up but has never actually been used in anger). When I brought it home to my parents house back around 1983 my dad got so mad I thought he was going to say it was me or the compressor.   It sat in his shed for 30 years.  

 

10 degrees in Mass and I had until Saturday to help my dad vacate our overflow garage that we have rented for the last 25 years.   The husband died and the wife is selling.    I had to deal with this thing that I've been dragging around forever and will never get to it.

 

 

[Larry Schramm]

2 minutes ago, alsancle said:

 

What is this?  A boat?

[alsancle]

Just now, Larry Schramm said:

 

What is this?  A boat?

 

Cool, isn't it?    A prewar race boat of some sort that I have never been able to identify. 

[Steve_Mack_CT]

I just had a vision of Auburn seeker tearing up Lake George in that thing... ?

[alsancle]

7 minutes ago, Steve_Mack_CT said:

I just had a vision of Auburn seeker tearing up Lake George in that thing... ?

 

That is a great idea Steve.

[CatBird]

3 hours ago, alsancle said:

Since the floor is literally the foundation of everything else I would go for the over.  4 inches feels too thin to me.

 

 

Seems thin to me. The support of the red iron and the structure will be much thicker and a lot of rebar there. But this seems feels like I should be at 6 inches, five at the most,

[CatBird]

55 minutes ago, Larry Schramm said:

 

What is this?  A boat?

 

 

Since you opened a boat can of worms, have a look at ours... 22 feet long....

[alsancle]

13 minutes ago, CatBird said:

 

 

Since you opened a boat can of worms, have a look at ours... 22 feet long....

 

 

I might have said it would be hard to trump my boat for coolness but I think you just did...

[auburnseeker]

You are going to laugh when I Tell you this,  but the business I gave up on and sold my shop drifting into my first passion of old cars was a wooden boat restoration shop.  My grandfather used to build and restore wooden boats.  I spent many summers at his shop when I was young,  sanding and varnishing not to mention making paddles and oars.    I put a new transom on a 1937 Dodge Watercar in my driveway before I bought the shop.  The owner's only complaint was I didn't refinish the whole boat because once he saw how nice the varnish work turned out,  the rest didn't look nearly as good.  

I actually still have a Chrysler Crown 6 from the 50's in my father's garage and some other cool vintage boat trinkets I didn't liquidate yet.  

 

That thing that catbird posted looks like a boat that Buck Rogers had commissioned.  It is cool,  but I still like yours Alsancle.  Don't get me to thinking.  The last thing I need is a whole in the water to throw money in.  

They do have an antique boat rendezvous here every year and one year even had vintage Hydros Racing.  One had an Allison in it,  but it wasn't running right.  A few had nailheads. 

[alsancle]

You would have the only one.   Which is not an easy thing to say. 

[edinmass]

It’s not often, but Catbird’s boat leaves me speechless..........and I like it!

[Joe in Canada]

I do have an inboard motor for a boat. A real power house at 3 1/2 Hp. Some day I will be able to afford the rest of it.

[auburnseeker]

1 hour ago, alsancle said:

You would have the only one.   Which is not an easy thing to say. 

I could probably put a hitch on the Hudson and tow it around with that.  I'm pretty sure the 3.0 gearing wouldn't like my driveway though towing a boat up it. 

[CatBird]

9 hours ago, edinmass said:

It’s not often, but Catbird’s boat leaves me speechless..........and I like it!

 

It really is a bar!

 

Thank you Ed. Happy to show it to you when you come to Atlanta. I got it from the Truett Cathy Collection. He bought it at the Red Baron Auction about five years ago. He had no history about it. He was mesmerized when he saw it at the Auction. I did some research and found some more about it.  I found him and had a delightful conversation. He offered us to come visit his home. He sold most of his creations at the Auction and the Auction people would not tell him who bought his pieces and was very happy to know his Bonneville went to someone who really did appreciate it. Took him six months to build it in his backyard. He added the 1941 Cadillac hood ornament at the last minute before he sold it. Will send you his contact information in a PM

https://hometone.org/1857/2012/07/25/bonneville-custom-island-bar-on-wheels-lets-you-sleep-inside/

 

[alsancle]

I started a boat thread where we can continue the boat related topic.

 

 

 

[rustybottom]

On ‎12‎/‎28‎/‎2017 at 5:33 PM, CatBird said:

Getting bids on my buildings. Concrete guys are saying four inches is good enough, except where anchors and supports for the red iron, which will be substantially heavier.

 

Is a four-inch slab for the general floor good enough? Most of my cars average 5,000 pounds each with some weighing 6000 and up to 7000 (1930s limos)

Are they going to pour the concrete over insulation?

[39BuickEight]

4 inches of concrete is pretty standard.  Of course thicker around support areas.  They put 8 under my stair landing.  Odd since the weight of that with 10 people on it still isn’t close to a car, but that was code here.  My concrete guy said nothing I could put in my garage would ever need over 4.   Dads shop has 4 and it’s been fine for years with 1-ton duality diesel trucks on it all the time.   Of course the rebar and expansion joints have to be done correctly or you might as well have no concrete at all.

[old car fan]

The concrete depends on bearing points from above,We have a 60 foot clear span, still to  to small, outside bearing only

[CatBird]

1 hour ago, rustybottom said:

Are they going to pour the concrete over insulation?

 

The insulation is in the walls and roof. Am thinking about floor heating coils though.

[CatBird]

28 minutes ago, old car fan said:

The concrete depends on bearing points from above,We have a 60 foot clear span, still to  to small, outside bearing only

 

I'll let the engineers figure it out. I can get a total of 6 inches for an additional $5,000. Submitted preliminary plans to the City for first perusal. Then building and foundation plans. Georgia engineering seals.

Edited January 4, 2018 by CatBird (see edit history)

[C Carl]

34 minutes ago, CatBird said:

 

The insulation is in the walls and roof. Am thinking about floor heating coils though.

 

If you heat the floor , the slab MUST be insulated.   - CC

[CatBird]

2 hours ago, C Carl said:

 

If you heat the floor , the slab MUST be insulated.   - CC

 

 

Ah, yes. I have taken a moment to ask St Google. And the answer is loud and clear. Using insulation and pex tubing. Will look further into this. Looks like a great idea to heat.

[auburnseeker]

They make different types of insulation for the floor.  One is specially designed for laying the tubing in and has the look of an egg carton.  A friend who has done a few,  likes this style best.  I'm probably going that route when I do mine. 

[alsancle]

I spend a lot of time trolling builders looking for suburban appropriate garages,   I'm thinking 40x60 clear span would be just about perfect, with some sort of second floor to store stuff that will never see the light of day again.   But I'm starting to think that realistically,  that size is just too big.

 

This one from Morton buildings looks just about right at 36x42.  Room for 5 to 6 cars with space to work.  Only real issue is that the upstairs is not great.

 

https://mortonbuildings.com/project/4171

 

[auburnseeker]

Remember build as big as you can,  then you will only regret it's not a little bigger later and not a whole lot bigger.   My 28 by 50 foot garage seems to have a lot wider center bay upstairs. Though maybe that's because it has a 7 foot or so ceiling joist rather than what looks like a 9 foot or better one on this. Do they have a price on this?  I have between 80 and 100 G in my 6 0by 72 foot shell with a 16 foot ceiling.  You can see it over on my thread I just started for cost comparisons. 

[chistech]

I have a 30x60 clear span flat roofed garage. Extra HD trusses every 10’ with 2x10s @ 12” centers on top of the trusses offers me a very high sq. Ft loading on the roof so I’m looking into putting up a full gambrel roof with a 8’ knee wall and fabricated trusses on top of the knee wall. This will give me a 24x60 clear span upstairs. I’m looking to move my wood shop and upholstery shop into that area. This will allow me to install a paint booth where I currently do a lot of that work. I also have an I-beam mounted between the trusses with a trolley mounted electric hoist which is one of the best things I have in my shop. Nothing better for pulling engines or lifting bodies off to transfer to my rotisserie. I prefer my hoist for most my body removal over my two post lift.

     I’ve always found 4” of concrete inadequate and always go with 6”. If you’re only parking vehicles you would probably be OK, but I’ve never been able to use a garage for just that. If you put in a lift , especially a two post, you’ll want the extra 2”. Ask the lift guys. You might just want to add a mezzanine depending on ceiling height and they usually mount with small 4” square pads.  4” of concrete will limit you on the mezzanine square foot rating (capacity) Another thing I find is if you do any sort of fabrication, you’ll end up using the floor at one time or another as an anvil  and four inches doesn’t take well to sledgehammer work. I have a friend who does a lot of bearing work and has a 20 ton press he uses a lot. From the bearings “popping” free, his presses feet have acted like a jackhammer and cracked his 4” floor which I find pretty baffling! Also, after the dirt floor is leveled and compacted, whether you add some stone or not, you will get some settling underneath the concrete leaving the 4” to support itself over the voids in areas.  Who knows how big or deep those voids can get? I always use rebar and wire not just one or the other like many concrete guys like to do. Maybe what I do is overkill but there’s no “adding” of thickness after the fact. Do it right, do it once. Extra dollars spent now mean none spent later and no aggravation which to me is worse. Nothing ticks me off more than being under a car and trying to roll a creeper over a crack in a floor!

Edited April 7, 2018 by chistech (see edit history)

[ron hausmann]

All,

   I posted these pics awhile back but they fit in this discussion. An alternative to building a car-barn or car-garage is to invest in a growing trend in buying a "Car-Condominium". There are several going up in large urban areas in the USA. The "M1 Concourse" in Pontiac Michigan has 200+ large semi-attached car condominiums varying in "footprint" sizes from 600 SF to 3000 SF. These condominiums front a 1.5 mile race track, and there are tons of car shows, festivals, drag races, and events thruout the summer. My grandchildren and families absolutely love weekends there. I have a 35 x 35 unit with lifts and can easily accommodate 9 antique cars and a 500SF viewing mezzanine. The cost wasn't much more than building a new garage on a new lot, but here you have full security and hundreds of like-minded car guys always around. These are built out of steel and concrete, not stick-built. 

Ron Hausmann P.E. 

[auburnseeker]

I still like having my stuff all here at the house with the nearest neighbors way off in the distance.  Though maybe it would be ideal for some guys,  I've always been a loner and though can socialize with the best of them,  still like my privacy,  you can't get in a condominium type setting.  Probably has something to do with being raised in a little town in the middle of nowhere.   I'm sure these are probably out of reach of many members that post on this site as well, where a decent size garage could be built on the cheap for 30 to 40G especially if you go the tin pole barn route.

[alsancle]

I looked in to commercial/warehouse condominium space.   There are very very few choices within 15 to 20 minutes.  There is one only 5 minutes away that would be 26x60, 20 foot ceiling,  large garage door, man door,  bathroom and two parking spots.  That is 179k, plus whatever you spend cleaning up the space or adding a loft which would be required for me.

 

The one advantage to Ron's approach in my case is that almost every dollar that goes in to a barn is lost.   If the Barn starts to get too big it goes from being zero return to negative return as it would negatively impact the house too.   In theory,  a warehouse condo would maintain its value. Hopefully.

 

[Paul Dobbin]

We had a 2 car garage and a 3 car barn in Florida, that sometimes held 4.
 

When we moved north to the Smoky Mountains we built the barn first.  56 X 36 with a carport on each end and a 10 X 10 Equipment room in the back of one of he carports.   It has 10' walls and scissor  trusses, giving us 14.5' in the center.  (Accommodates my 4 post lift)  two 10' wide x 8 ' high doors on the long side and a 11.5' X 10" barn door in one gable end.  (Accommodates our DP Motor Home)  with room for 6 old cars.  (If I sell the 

RV I'll gain 3 stalls.)

We built the barn before the house and lived in The Roadhouse inside the barn while doing the house. This necessitated a guest room and bath in the barn, now my fine workroom.

Lessons learned: #1.  Build bigger than the number of vehicles you own when you start.

                              #2.  Make your work stall twice the size of a parking stall.

                              #3.  Foam roof insulation and gas heat makes it a year round playroom.

                              #4.  A 4 post lift is the answer if you buy the big one (Need to be high too)

                              #5   Only one of my 2 gable windows gets sunshine, the other 6 school house

                                      windows 3' x 6' all have blinds, but light gets more important as we age.  

                                    (Also my nylon car covers protect the vehicles from late afternoon sun,                                          dust and fly spec.  Ours is all wood and stick built.  Board & Batton siding,                                      metal roof, concrete floor, 200 Amp service, insulated sectional garage                                           doors with remote openers.

                         In hind site, I would have made it bigger with a center door to accommodate a

                         center isle for  driving, with the lift at the far end.  I would also have been rich and                          better look.

                         (As l long as hind site is 20/20.  I would also have required digging out the whole                           side of Rabbit Mountain to get enough flat space.)  I  guess I'm real happy with                              what I have.

                           

Edited April 7, 2018 by Paul Dobbin
Text placement correction (see edit history)